Motorbike insurance - tell us your quotes

madrab · 07-09-2005 4:18pm

yeah i noticed that on my dads renewal letter (only €240 tpft the b@stard!) it said pillions not covered-looked very strange

a_ominous · 07-09-2005 9:28pm

There are several bikes that have no pillion seat and qualify for increased discounts. I'm not sure how much though. I've carried a passenger once in 3 years.

seamus · 07-09-2005 9:31pm

a_ominous wrote:

There are several bikes that have no pillion seat and qualify for increased discounts. I'm not sure how much though. I've carried a passenger once in 3 years.

That would seem to make sense. By the same virtue, a passenger riding on the roof of your car wouldn't be covered - or would they?

Hotblack Desiato · 07-09-2005 11:44pm

madrab wrote:

yeah i noticed that on my dads renewal letter (only €240 tpft the b@stard!) it said pillions not covered-looked very strange

I'm presuming your dad has a provisional licence, and the letter is really telling him he's not licensed to carry a pillion? The insurance company can't get out of their obligations to third parties, no matter what they put on the policy.

Any chance of putting up a scan of the letter - blanking out personal data?

frodi wrote:

It seems that CN now have two insurers with one looking to put restrictions in lieu of lower prices.

Not so I'm afraid, all CN bike policies in the Republic are underwritten by Royal & Sun Alliance.

frodi · 08-09-2005 9:38am

ninja900 wrote:

Not so I'm afraid, all CN bike policies in the Republic are underwritten by Royal & Sun Alliance.

I rang them about a month ago when I was changing bikes. They told me at that time that they would have a new insurer shortly. They rang me two weeks ago saying that they now have a second insurer and they were doing a ring around previous enquiries to see if I would be interested in insurance at a cheaper price without pillion cover. There was another restriction on the policy but I can't remember that at present.

Hotblack Desiato · 08-09-2005 2:39pm

It is ILLEGAL for an insurer to not cover you against third party claims. A pillion is a third party.

Never mind what you were told on the phone - they'll tell you anything - I'd love to know how such a policy would be worded. Perhaps you agree that they can come after you for their loss if there is a pillion claim against you? The problem with that it WILL be abused by some people, and these claims can run into seven figures. Add in legal costs and I can't see the insurance companies recovering very much off most people in such a situation.

galwaytt · 09-09-2005 12:22pm

Sorry but that's completely untrue. Insurers legally have to cover pillions, even if you're not licensed to carry one. A third party (the pillion) claim has to be paid out even if the rider is breaking the law.

This was brought in by the EU motor insurance directive in the 1990s and was used as an excuse to hike up premiums, we probably would be better off with the old situation where a pillion rode at their own risk, but there you go.

Sorry Ninja, but you’re not quite right on this one.

(btw…Just in case anyone has any doubts on this – if you’re a provisional licence holder, you are NOT legally licenced to carry passengers. Ever. For any reason.)

For a start, when my insurance renewal came out at that time, there was a letter attached which stated (Norwich Union at the time….) that there was no increase in premium for that mandatory element. Claims experience, however, soon changed that……..it was inevitable, really………..

What the EU directive actually said was that pillions must be insured by somebody. It made no reference to licencing or the conditions under which pillions are carried in the first place. In practice here, this means the cover became mandatory on the back of the rider’s policy.

But – the directive was poorly transposed into Irish law - we didn’t qualify that the mandatory insurance was required only in respect of those LEGALLY ENTITLED TO CARRY PILLIONS.

So, without this qualification being stated in the legislation, the courts have decided that the licencing requirement doesn’t apply in these cases, and that the insurance companies must pay out, IRRESPECTIVE of whether the rider has a licence to carry the pillion in the first place or not. In other words, because it doesn’t say they are NOT covered, then the judicial system has deemed that they ARE covered. And that’s why we’re in the ****e……

galwaytt · 09-09-2005 12:45pm

True, the Gardai can then prosecute the riders for a breach of the licence law…….but not the insurance requirement under the Road Traffic Act, as judicial precedent has now been set. Therefore they won’t bother prosecuting riders for having no licence, because, just by dint of their having a current insurance policy, they – and the pillion – are now covered, and the only prosecutable offence is a misdemeanour………and it’s just not worth it.

Net Result – I, You, We – get fu$$ked on our insurance premia………the insurance companies can legally take a civil suit against a rider who’s policy they paid out to a pillion under, but what’s the chance of collecting the money (say, €50k..) from a 17 yr old……..who mighn’t even be working?? Exactly !! Goddamn frickin’ zero. So, they just shrug their shoulders, and add the cost of the claim to everyone’s premium for next year. It just got to the stage where Hibernian said ‘no more’……..and walked away.

They claim they couldn’t get the minister to help change the law, and they weren’t prepared to act as an ATM for pillion claims any longer……..I can’t say I blame them.

Only in Ireland, huh…..? In the UK an illegal number plate, silencer or modified indicators invalidates your insurance………do you think the nonsense situation of unlicenced riders making successful claims even comes up….Ha ! – of course not. In Germany, it states on the Kfz Brief – (the vehicle tax book..) – which make and brand of tyres are to be fitted. I’ve even seen the spark plug type mentioned on one. Failure to adhere rigidly to that………you guessed it…..invalidates your insurance…..

So – to all you riders, on provisionals, who’ve had a claim by a pillion – you are the single biggest reason insurance is the price that it is, so quit your goddamn whinging, and take a look at the mess you’ve landed the whole country in.
To you pillions who’ve made a claim – big or small – what the hell were you doing on a bike with an unlicenced rider in the first place?? You’re not doing me any favours – that’s for sure……….

galwaytt · 09-09-2005 12:51pm

sorry about the disjointed posts above. Everytime I tried to post a reply it just crashed my IE, so I had to make two answers out of it.

Hope it makes sense.

seamus · 16-09-2005 4:45pm

Turns out whoever took my original quote in AON wasn't listening to me. Rang again to confirm, and the quote is actually €1,120 TPO :mad:

Not worth my while changing insurance policy as I'll be penalised more than I'll save... :rolleyes:

Chunkylover · 16-09-2005 5:19pm

CBR 250RR '99

€912 TP, 1st provisional, 26 male Wicklow/dublin, its a hell of a lot cheaper that what I was paying for a 1.6 mirage and that was with 3 years no claims on a full licence

alanlouthzzr · 17-09-2005 9:24pm

ZZR400 '95

TFT €580 Carole Nash, 36yo, 1 yr full licence, 1yr NCB. Louth.
Last year on a prov it was €800.

Markham · 19-09-2005 5:56pm

Yamaha Virago 125 2001
5 yrs no claims on a moped
25 yrs of age
Provisional A licence

TP
Carole Nash - 645
AON - 475 (And for an extra 25 quid I can have my 'ped covered too)

Canaboid · 20-09-2005 11:36am

Just got my renewal notice from CN. Quite a drop and it seems they've put me on a different scheme "that best suits my needs".

I notice it stipulates No Pillion. Didn't the law change in this regard recently with increased premiums accross the board as a result ?

Honda CB500
4 years ncb
34 y o
Full A

TPO €329

seamus · 20-09-2005 12:16pm

Canaboid wrote:

I notice it stipulates No Pillion.

Hmmm.....I don't know if they can do this. Compulsory minimum insurance covers pillions. Perhaps they stipulate no pillion so that if you do crash with a pillion, that gives them the right to chase you for all costs they've had to pay to the pillion. Weird...

galwaytt · 20-09-2005 3:27pm

Canaboid wrote:

I notice it stipulates No Pillion.

...Seamus is right........they can't say this. It is an EU-mandated legal requirement that pillions are covered. iirc it came in in...........1999??

You need to remind them of this. In writing. I'm not even sure that they can put the caveat on the policy that they can then chase you for the costs in the event of a pillion claim.

Because you're buying legally-mandated cover, then, if the law states the pillion must be covered, then they cannot effectively say 'well you're not actually insured, but we'll pay out and then get you afterwards'....for that is what they're saying. Because by doing that, they're saying that they are not exposed to the risk. This being the case, then what they are selling you is not insurance - it's more like a loan. Sorry, I'm not buying that, btw........

I'd challenge that too. And if you get guff from them, report them to the Ombudsman, the MIAB, and the relevant govt department.....

galwaytt · 20-09-2005 3:31pm

oh, and btw, the courts have already ruled on this - they have to cover pillions. However, if you're a provisional licence holder, then they CAN go after you, as you are not licenced to carry the pillion, and so are in breach of contract........

tk123 · 20-09-2005 3:46pm

Guys CN have a new cheaper catagory that doesn't cover pillions - like the way you get a reduction for a 1 seater bike. You can opt for this or take the cover that does cover pillions too.....i think......

Canaboid · 20-09-2005 4:19pm

Personally, it's academic as I never carry or ride as a pillion passenger.

Nonetheless it's clearly stated on my policy renewal notice, which is nice and cheap, so I'm happy.

Kazujo · 20-09-2005 7:24pm

I'll be driving six years in January, have full no claims and a full A licence for over 2 years and I'm 23.

Bandit 600 (Group 5) AON: 1200 ish cant remember the exact number

Rang CN today enquiring about a Pan European and they would not quote me, they said I needed more experience and to call them back in a year. I asked directly if it was to do with my age and he would not give me a straight answer.

Rang AON and the quoted me 2496 TPO for the Pan (Group 9) and 1780 for a Deauville 650 (Group 7)

seamus · 20-09-2005 7:32pm

"More experience". Fs...... :mad:

galwaytt · 20-09-2005 9:47pm

tk123 wrote:

Guys CN have a new cheaper catagory that doesn't cover pillions - like the way you get a reduction for a 1 seater bike. You can opt for this or take the cover that does cover pillions too.....i think......

sorry tk, but that's exactly my point...you can't opt out of pillion cover. It is a legal requirement, laid down by EU directive and subsequently transposed into Irish law.

It has subsequently been found by Irish courts that NO insurance company can state that pillions are not covered, by dint of the way the law was transposed. If CN don't believe it, then all they have to do is to phone our good old friends in Hibernian in Dawson Street.........and they'll find out the courts have already found against the insurance companies on this issue.....

tk123 · 21-09-2005 12:33pm

sorry galwaytt i didn't know that!!

pajodublin · 21-09-2005 7:01pm

05' Piaggio NRG 50cc, 22 yo male
With AON thru AXA...
1 Year no claims
Full Licence 569euro

WILKEL · 22-09-2005 7:06pm

tk123 wrote:

Guys CN have a new cheaper catagory that doesn't cover pillions - like the way you get a reduction for a 1 seater bike. You can opt for this or take the cover that does cover pillions too.....i think......

I read somewhere that this insurance is possible but the bike must have been manufactured with no pillion provision ( ie you cant alter it yourself)
and there was very few bikes like this - some crazy expensive Ducaiti.
I will try to find more details.

delanest · 23-09-2005 1:34pm

how old does the bike have to be in order to get classic insurance ?

Are there any restrictions - age/licence type ?

art · 23-09-2005 11:49pm

I'm 37, been riding about 10 years or so with no claims at all, in Dublin. Now on a Triumph ThunderBird Sport, which is a category 9 bike I think.

Hibernian cost 860 comp, and 515 TPFT. CN was 920 or so initially but they brought it down to 860 when I told them that was Hibernian's quote. Their TPFT price was strangely high at 750 for some reason so I just went with Hibernian.

Insurance has to be renewed next month so rang AON a few times today but no-one answered so be curious to see where I'm at now with them.

dawballz · 24-09-2005 12:09am

art wrote:

I'm 37, been riding about 10 years or so with no claims at all, in Dublin. Now on a Triumph ThunderBird Sport, which is a category 9 bike I think.

Hibernian cost 860 comp, and 515 TPFT. CN was 920 or so initially but they brought it down to 860 when I told them that was Hibernian's quote. Their TPFT price was strangely high at 750 for some reason so I just went with Hibernian.

Insurance has to be renewed next month so rang AON a few times today but no-one answered so be curious to see where I'm at now with them.

OT but I've noticed that most days when I rang AON, it took about 3-4 calls before someone answered..
It's not like they don't earn enough money to pay an appropriate amount of staff, so are they just lazy, or is there not enough of them?

Kazujo · 24-09-2005 12:31pm

delanest wrote:

how old does the bike have to be in order to get classic insurance ?

Are there any restrictions - age/licence type ?

The bike needs ot be 15 years old, you need a full licence and be 25 or older, as I was told the last time I asked CN. I think there might be a mileage restriction too but I don't know if it is enforced, and I think you need MAG membership.

Canaboid · 26-09-2005 11:30am

To update on the "no pillion" insurance from CN. The situation is that when you take the policy you agree to not carry pillion passengers. If you have an accident with a pillion passenger on board they will payout for the pillion (and 3rd party) but your insurance is null and void for everything else due to you being in breach of the policy agreement.

seamus · 26-09-2005 12:02pm

Ah, so it's on Comp. policies only?

Canaboid · 26-09-2005 12:13pm

No, my policy is TPO. Sorry if I've confused the issue. The CN rep I spoke to said if you have an accident while carrying a passenger you are legally uninsured and are open to prosecution for driving uninsured as you are in breach of the terms of your policy. They will still cover injury to the passenger in line with EU law.

seamus · 26-09-2005 12:46pm

Ah. But they will cover 3rd parties...weird.

noby · 27-09-2005 10:58am

'02 Vespa PX200
Male, 31, Waterford
Full A, 4yr NCB

AON: 255 TPO
CN: 237 (no pillion), 390 (pillion) TPO

I never asked AON about the pillion thing, as I rang CN after them , and that was the first I heard of it.

Iri$hKeLt · 01-10-2005 11:20am

Heh,

Im thinking getting a 80cc NSR but looking to get a competitive quote. I live in the country in (Co. Monaghan) 19 years of age under provisional licence. Can any of you recommend a insurance company for me please? As long as insurance is under 2000euro i'll be happy enough but if i can save a extra few quid

Im going to ring AON Monday morning, Is there any more I should contact?

keithogixer · 03-10-2005 2:39pm

Age 24
Bike : - GSXR 1000cc K3
Full Licence & 2yrs no claims
Class 11 or 12 for insurance
Price of Insurance **FREE Fully Comp**

got initial quote for bike and it was over 5K from Hibernian & Rang CN they said they wouldn't quote me because I was to young and to cut along story short I accused them of age discrimination and about 4/5 months later to shut me up they gave me fully comp insurance for freeeeeeee.

Keitho....

tk123 · 03-10-2005 3:38pm

COooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool!!!!!

seamus · 03-10-2005 5:11pm

Wait till you get stung next year...

omb0wyn5ehpij9 · 04-10-2005 12:49pm

keithogixer wrote:

Age 24
Bike : - GSXR 1000cc K3
Full Licence & 2yrs no claims
Class 11 or 12 for insurance
Price of Insurance **FREE Fully Comp**

got initial quote for bike and it was over 5K from Hibernian & Rang CN they said they wouldn't quote me because I was to young and to cut along story short I accused them of age discrimination and about 4/5 months later to shut me up they gave me fully comp insurance for freeeeeeee.

Keitho....

I read the article about that in the star a few months ago!

Kang · 10-10-2005 10:10pm

last year:
age:25
bike:TZR 50
NCB:1
Licence: Pro
Town:Dublin

CN:1240
HB:840

saobh_ie · 11-10-2005 7:58pm

But next year Kieth will be through the magical 25 years old barrier with a full license and three years no claims. =]

Bikers: One.
Insurance Companies: A couple of billion and counting...

Kang · 11-10-2005 11:14pm

BrynW wrote:

I read the article about that in the star a few months ago!

me 2

art · 24-10-2005 10:41pm

Right - finally got round to getting quotes for my insurance renewal:

900cc, Thunderbird Sport - think it fell into Hibernia's category 9 insurance, I'm 37 with no claims ever (thankfully). Fully Comp insurance.

Carole Nash, €1,100 (which they rang back to say they'd drop to 1,000).
AON, €810.

Don't know what the hell is wrong with Carole Nash these days, that's a ridiculous figure. Though I was very tired today and just not in the humour for an argument or a haggle so perhaps if I promised to only drive on Sundays and never take a pillion it could have come down but AON's seemed a fair enough figure so just went with that. Never asked about the whole training thing I realised later - is getting trained worth it financially (irrespective of the driving technique stuff)?

Idleater · 25-10-2005 10:31am

art wrote:

:
:
...Never asked about the whole training thing I realised later - is getting trained worth it financially (irrespective of the driving technique stuff)?

Yes it is worth it - both financially and safety wise. I just passed the ROSPA and will be getting a €150 cheque from AON in the post. Don't know what they worked it out like but I have 8 or 9 months left on the policy. It will pay for the training and exams with the savings in this and next year's renewals. Even quicker if you are Fully Comp which is nice (because the higher the cost of the policy the more the 30% equates to).

Basically if you do the AON test and you get between 10 - 30% off or something like that. The ROSPA test is also recognised by AON - moreso than by Carol Nash who will only give you a 10% discount for the same Grade.

30% off €810 is €567 which is a tidy saving compared to €900 with CN.

L.

art · 25-10-2005 11:50am

nereid wrote:

Yes it is worth it - both financially and safety wise. I just passed the ROSPA and will be getting a €150 cheque from AON in the post. Don't know what they worked it out like but I have 8 or 9 months left on the policy. It will pay for the training and exams with the savings in this and next year's renewals. Even quicker if you are Fully Comp which is nice (because the higher the cost of the policy the more the 30% equates to).

Basically if you do the AON test and you get between 10 - 30% off or something like that. The ROSPA test is also recognised by AON - moreso than by Carol Nash who will only give you a 10% discount for the same Grade.

30% off €810 is €567 which is a tidy saving compared to €900 with CN.

L.

Bugger, better do it so

Too lazy and I'm quite experienced rider now too so the thoughts of prissily driving around, trying to mind my manners while being examined was a bit off putting but can't argue with the savings you're suggesting.

madrab · 25-10-2005 12:32pm

keithogixer wrote:

Age 24
Bike : - GSXR 1000cc K3
Full Licence & 2yrs no claims
Class 11 or 12 for insurance
Price of Insurance **FREE Fully Comp**

got initial quote for bike and it was over 5K from Hibernian & Rang CN they said they wouldn't quote me because I was to young and to cut along story short I accused them of age discrimination and about 4/5 months later to shut me up they gave me fully comp insurance for freeeeeeee.

Keitho....

personally i was kinda for the insurance comp in this one,apart from the age discrimination, personally i dont think anyone with 2 years no claim should be alowed to drive a bike that powerful, sorry

but in saying this, this is my major problem with the insurance industry, basing insurance quotes on age rather than experience

echomadman · 25-10-2005 5:42pm

madrab wrote:

personally i was kinda for the insurance comp in this one,apart from the age discrimination, personally i dont think anyone with 2 years no claim should be alowed to drive a bike that powerful, sorry

but in saying this, this is my major problem with the insurance industry, basing insurance quotes on age rather than experience

wait, werent you the one complaining there's no direct access in this country?
There's no pleasing some people. he wasnt asking for free insurance (although fair play he got it) he was asking for a quote, which as a full license holder, who's past his 2 years restriction period he was entitled to get.

madrab · 25-10-2005 11:15pm

echomadman wrote:

wait, werent you the one complaining there's no direct access in this country?

eh? what you talkking about?

my point is that you should have to build up bike experience before you can just go and buy a superbike

Dr Pepper · 26-10-2005 11:38am

Bike: Suzuki GN 125
Age: 24
Licence: Prov
NCB: 0
CN: 1350 TPO
AON: 2600 TPO

Got the CN policy in August. If I was 25, the AON quote was €1100. So, if I want insurance from AON on 5th Feb 2006, it's €2600, on 6th Feb, it's €1100 (Of course at 12 midnight on the 5th, I will gain supernatural powers in motorbike driving

but it still seems a bit ridiculous).

Another thing which was extremely annoying: I have a full car licence for 5 years, 6 years NCB. This was not considered.. Fair enough you might say, driving a bike is v different to driving a car. However, they didn't mind using the 4 points on my (separate) car licence as an excuse to hike up the price.. Not giving me credit for the years of experience (claim-free) in the car but penalising me for points gotten while driving the car! It's complete b*****t!

By the way, before somebody points out that the fact that I have 4 points indicates I am a fast driver:
- The first 2 were recieved on the first couple of days of the points scheme for doing 51mph on the Lucan by-pass in a ridiculous 40mph zone (which has probably since been switched to 50mph/80kph). I was only caught to boost the numbers when the scheme started!
- The second 2 were recieved on the Cabra Rd on the way into work on a quiet Saturday morning doing 41mph (30mph zone officially but doesn't exactly make me Evil Kinevil for using some discression in the conditions - and keeping up with the flow of traffic!)

art · 26-10-2005 2:23pm

Dr Pepper wrote:

Got the CN policy in August. If I was 25, the AON quote was €1100. So, if I want insurance from AON on 5th Feb 2006, it's €2600, on 6th Feb, it's €1100 (Of course at 12 midnight on the 5th, I will gain supernatural powers in motorbike driving but it still seems a bit ridiculous).

Interesting the difference there. I was amazed at how the two companies conducted their business when making the calls: CN wanted to know my occupation, age, where the bike was stored, was it alarmed, what was the make of alarm etc etc AON asked my age and bike model and feck all else. They seem to have a much more simplistic way of generating the quotes.

Motorbike insurance - tell us your quotes

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