BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

cgcsb · 11-05-2021 4:23pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why though, it's a pole, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the yellow ones.
Also a huge waste of money....

A bus pole isn't going to attract people to use a bus.

What an absolute waste of money, improvement of services, speed up buses, get dwell times cut, traffic issues, lights, bus stops that can take a bus and sort out the absolute sh1t show of these poles they are erecting everywhere impeding traffic.

Would tend to agree but at least now there's actual real progress with the first route starting soon and the new fare structure starting in Sept. But yes agree these things needed to be sorted years ago instead of spending years and millions talking about a colour scheme that literally nobody cares about.

punisher5112 · 11-05-2021 4:29pm

Our job as drivers is getting more and more difficult as the days go by, lane set ups where you can't see what's coming up as they shoot up on these e bikes and scooters at speed....

A&E will be getting busy when traffic gets back

MJohnston · 11-05-2021 4:36pm

While I'd agree that on the surface this is just a visual change, the thing I'd say is that BusConnects has a bit of a battle to win public confidence/favour.

So in that respect, it's kind of important (though I don't really know to what extent) for a lot of surface-level changes to happen, to reassure the skeptical that they're still going to be able to access their bus, and whatnot.

Obviously the actual functioning of the bus network will be the most important aspect, but there's a lot to be said about letting people see the changes happening.

bk · 11-05-2021 6:24pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

A bus pole isn't going to attract people to use a bus.

Poorly maintained bus poles and shelters can absolutely give a bad impression of a bus service.

In fairness to DB, they seemed to be aware of this and generally kept their poles and shelters well maintained, with from what I've seen regular cleaning, painting and replacing when needed. *

* This includes a bus shelter near my home that is maintained in immaculate condition, despite no bus serving it in almost 20 years!!

But until recently this hasn't been the case outside of Dublin. In Cork for instance I'd say most of the poles hadn't been replaced or seen a lick of paint in 40 years.

I mean seriously bad condition, rusting, falling over, even a danger to pedestrians and passing cars.

I remember the bus shelter across from my parents house was made out of metal and had massive holes rusted through it in the roof and back of it.

All of the above added up to BE services having a very bad image in Cork. People thought it was a very poor service and only poor people who couldn't afford a car would use it.

I notice that in Cork, peoples impressions of the bus service are improving greatly over the past 5 years or so, as the bus fleet is now younger, they are better cleaned and maintained, poles and shelters have now all been replaced, etc.

This might not be as obvious if you have lived all your life in Dublin, as Dublin was already at this level the past 20 years, but as a Corkonian who has seen the opposite, I can tell you how much these sort of small details matter.

BTW as an aside, any marketing person would think you are mad not to keep such street side furniture well maintained, fresh and well presented. These are basically an advertisement for the company/service on every street in the city! Advertising companies would pay massive money for such street side advertising (thus the bus shelters), the cost of such advertising would be vastly more then the cost of maintenance and regular replacement.

punisher5112 · 11-05-2021 6:33pm

bk wrote: »

Poorly maintained bus poles and shelters can absolutely give a bad impression of a bus service.

In fairness to DB, they seemed to be aware of this and generally kept their poles and shelters well maintained, with from what I've seen regular cleaning, painting and replacing when needed. *

* This includes a bus shelter near my home that is maintained in immaculate condition, despite no bus serving it in almost 20 years!!

But until recently this hasn't been the case outside of Dublin. In Cork for instance I'd say most of the poles hadn't been replaced or seen a lick of paint in 40 years.

I mean seriously bad condition, rusting, falling over, even a danger to pedestrians and passing cars.

I remember the bus shelter across from my parents house was made out of metal and had massive holes rusted through it in the roof and back of it.

All of the above added up to BE services having a very bad image in Cork. People thought it was a very poor service and only poor people who couldn't afford a car would use it.

I notice that in Cork, peoples impressions of the bus service are improving greatly over the past 5 years or so, as the bus fleet is now younger, they are better cleaned and maintained, poles and shelters have now all been replaced, etc.

This might not be as obvious if you have lived all your life in Dublin, as Dublin was already at this level the past 20 years, but as a Corkonian who has seen the opposite, I can tell you how much these sort of small details matter.

BTW as an aside, any marketing person would think you are mad not to keep such street side furniture well maintained, fresh and well presented. These are basically an advertisement for the company/service on every street in the city! Advertising companies would pay massive money for such street side advertising (thus the bus shelters), the cost of such advertising would be vastly more then the cost of maintenance and regular replacement.

Bus shelters have absolutely nothing to do with db, of course if they are in disrepair that's a bad look.

If you look at the yellow poles, previously blue, green, blue they were once left for a long long time but in my time they have been looked after much better and get painted much more.

I agree the poles outside Dublin were in very poor shape, seen many just snap, rust etc....

I fully appreciate that cork etc were bad and that shouldn't have been the case.

Shelters are where the money is, advertising.

bk · 11-05-2021 6:49pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Bus shelters have absolutely nothing to do with db, of course if they are in disrepair that's a bad look.

Ah, I hadn't realised the NTA had taken over ownership of them, looks like that happened just in 2016, before that it looks like DB owned them and in fairness to them they were just as well maintained back then as they are now.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/jc-decaux-signs-30m-national-bus-shelter-contract-1.2907683

Though in both cases, it looks like it was the contracted advertising company who actually maintains them. Which of course makes sense, advertisers don't want to have their ads on dirty, vandalised bus shelters, so it is in every ones interest to keep them well, a win all round.

While bus poles are obviously different, I'd argue they are still an incredibly important "advertising" for the bus service and should be maintained as such.

punisher5112 · 11-05-2021 7:40pm

bk wrote: »

Ah, I hadn't realised the NTA had taken over ownership of them, looks like that happened just in 2016, before that it looks like DB owned them and in fairness to them they were just as well maintained back then as they are now.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/jc-decaux-signs-30m-national-bus-shelter-contract-1.2907683

Though in both cases, it looks like it was the contracted advertising company who actually maintains them. Which of course makes sense, advertisers don't want to have their ads on dirty, vandalised bus shelters, so it is in every ones interest to keep them well, a win all round.

While bus poles are obviously different, I'd argue they are still an incredibly important "advertising" for the bus service and should be maintained as such.

But they put in big mad expensive poles in Dublin city centre, they were regularly trashed as are many others....

Then these new silver ones now been put in and bus shelters which I never thought I'd see in centre itself but they're there for one reason, money on advertising....

I just don't see a bus pole at an ordinary stop is going to solve things.

bk · 11-05-2021 7:42pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

I just don't see a bus pole at an ordinary stop is going to solve things.

Of course I don't think it solves anything on it's own.

But it is one of the many small items that add up to an attractive service that attracts people out of their cars.

p_haugh · 12-05-2021 12:04am

I believe that Dublin Bus still have the contract to maintain the bus stops/shelters on behalf of the NTA throughout Dublin at least.

punisher5112 · 12-05-2021 12:16am

p_haugh wrote: »

I believe that Dublin Bus still have the contract to maintain the bus stops/shelters on behalf of the NTA throughout Dublin at least.

Bus stops yes, shelters no..... They do the stickers with bus stop number, timetable boards/stickers and fit new poles if needed such as damaged or missing.

The shelters were adshell but j c decaux vans is all I see these days doing the cleaning and advertising replacement.

The painting of the poles is tendered out so every few years you would see someone else doing these, seen many missed over the years too.

AngryLips · 12-05-2021 8:24am

So are the new NTA poles now for all bus services? Should we expect to see the removal of other operator poles as they're rolled out? Such as Aircoach and Swords Express poles...

punisher5112 · 12-05-2021 11:41am

AngryLips wrote: »

So are the new NTA poles now for all bus services? Should we expect to see the removal of other operator poles as they're rolled out? Such as Aircoach and Swords Express poles...

They will have each operators logo and bus number beside that.

The plan is to remove unnecessary street clutter, so I understand that part myself but still for db alone there are over 5k bus stops.

p_haugh · 12-05-2021 1:21pm

AngryLips wrote: »

So are the new NTA poles now for all bus services? Should we expect to see the removal of other operator poles as they're rolled out? Such as Aircoach and Swords Express poles...

I'm not fully sure if it includes private operators (i.e. Aircoach & Swords Express), but all PSO routes/operators will be combined onto the one pole/timetable sheet.

bk · 12-05-2021 5:09pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

The plan is to remove unnecessary street clutter, so I understand that part myself but still for db alone there are over 5k bus stops.

It is possible they aren't going to replace all poles, maybe just the ones on the core routes. And maybe the pendants on the rest, if at all.

I get the impression that the new poles, info systems etc. are just being rolled out to each core route, which makes a lot of sense given the importance of these core routes.

thenightman · 12-05-2021 8:13pm

When is this kicking off? seen some reports in the news today but the busconnects website has no easy to find info on the homepage, which certainly is in keeping with the awful level of pt websites here anyway.

Also, have any actual infrastructure improvements (besides replacing bus stop poles) taken place like widening of bus lanes etc? I assumed they were still stuck on another interminable round of nimby/public consultation. If so, then won't this just basically be a doomed cosmetic change?

punisher5112 · 12-05-2021 8:39pm

thenightman wrote: »

When is this kicking off? seen some reports in the news today but the busconnects website has no easy to find info on the homepage, which certainly is in keeping with the awful level of pt websites here anyway.

Also, have any actual infrastructure improvements (besides replacing bus stop poles) taken place like widening of bus lanes etc? I assumed they were still stuck on another interminable round of nimby/public consultation. If so, then won't this just basically be a doomed cosmetic change?

Widening would be lovely over the last year all they've done is narrowed lanes to the point it's creating more traffic, buses can't fit in bus lanes and must wait to be let out and traffic light sequence so bad it's creating an absolute nightmare out there.

cgcsb · 12-05-2021 10:44pm

thenightman wrote: »

When is this kicking off? seen some reports in the news today but the busconnects website has no easy to find info on the homepage, which certainly is in keeping with the awful level of pt websites here anyway.

Also, have any actual infrastructure improvements (besides replacing bus stop poles) taken place like widening of bus lanes etc? I assumed they were still stuck on another interminable round of nimby/public consultation. If so, then won't this just basically be a doomed cosmetic change?

The core bus corridors are a separate project and the first tranche is to be put to bord pleanala this summer at some stage.

punisher5112 · 12-05-2021 11:13pm

What's the thoughts on the platforms/ramps fitted in Dundrum main Street.... Nuts.

CatInABox · 13-05-2021 11:39am

Looking well this morning, they have most of them done from the bottom of the Howth Road to Killester. Don't know if they've gone any further.

Don't approve of the way that they did the upgrade though.
Day one, they take down the existing pole, leaving a hole surrounded by barriers
Day two, the hole is filled in with concrete with the connecter in place for the new pole, surrounded by barriers
Day three, they take away the barriers, leaving no sign that they were there
Day four, the new pole goes up.

At no point did they have a "Temporary Bus Stop" sign, or any BusConnects branded sign or anything, and this was a load of bus stops. In some locations there's literally no evidence that there's a bus stop there at all. Yes, it was only for a day, but even so, they should really have thought of this before starting.

bk · 13-05-2021 1:28pm

Ha, I was out for a stroll myself this morning and grabbed a picture of the new poles, I have to say it looks extremely well and much easier to read then the old poles.

I was also taking a closer look at the old poles that are on the other side of the same street and actually stopping to look, you can see that they are actually in rough condition, some almost falling down and looking like they were in need of replacing anyway. It isn't immediately obvious, as unlike in Cork at least the old poles in Dublin are painted. The new poles certainly look far more rugged and strong then the old ones.

Here is a picture of a pole from across the road, it is actually one of the better old poles!

Hotblack Desiato · 13-05-2021 1:55pm

CatInABox wrote: »

Seems unnecessarily far in from the kerb, less room for pedestrians but they don't pay fares or taxes so nobody cares about them!

Litter bin behind it is worse, add a bit of growth on the hedge and would a double buggy fit? :rolleyes:

Fizzy Duck · 13-05-2021 4:17pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Seems unnecessarily far in from the kerb, less room for pedestrians but they don't pay fares or taxes so nobody cares about them!

Litter bin behind it is worse, add a bit of growth on the hedge and would a double buggy fit? :rolleyes:

Having the stops set back a little bit avoids the coming into contact with the mirror when the bus pulls in. Looking at the pole behind the bin That would be too close. There's just no joined up thinking when it comes to planning these things.

MJohnston · 13-05-2021 5:05pm

Fizzy Duck wrote: »

Having the stops set back a little bit avoids the coming into contact with the mirror when the bus pulls in. Looking at the pole behind the bin That would be too close. There's just no joined up thinking when it comes to planning these things.

The most annoying thing is that you can see that the bus stop occupies about 3/4 of the width of the road.

It'd be much better for everyone if they used that useless space, built a bus stop island, and have the bike lane weave around the 'inside' of it. Sort of like this, but with the whole thing aligned with the traffic lane instead of inset:

Burt Renaults · 13-05-2021 6:02pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

What's the thoughts on the platforms/ramps fitted in Dundrum main Street.... Nuts.

I think it's a vast improvement.

jams100 · 15-05-2021 2:05am

Can someone explain why they removed a bus shelter at Houston Station inbound (25a, 25b 79a etc.) and then replaced what was a perfect shelter with a Bleedin POLE!
Please tell me there's an explanation for this?

p_haugh · 20-05-2021 7:22pm

EV78 has been pictured in the new NTA livery, seems that a small batch of EVs based in Clontarf will be in the new livery for use on the H spine when that starts up in June.

GT89 · 20-05-2021 7:32pm

p_haugh wrote: »

EV78 has been pictured in the new NTA livery, seems that a small batch of EVs based in Clontarf will be in the new livery for use on the H spine when that starts up in June.

Why not just swap around a few SGs or GTs from other depots if Clontarf is short. Seems a waste repainting buses that have max 2 years left in service and I'm surprised the NTA want the spine operated by dual door buses only.

Peregrine · 20-05-2021 7:35pm

p_haugh wrote: »

EV78 has been pictured in the new NTA livery, seems that a small batch of EVs based in Clontarf will be in the new livery for use on the H spine when that starts up in June.

So they're launching the first BusConnects route with 12 year old single door buses operating on some services? Ffs. They've known for over a year that the H spine would be the first to launch.

devnull · 20-05-2021 8:17pm

Peregrine wrote: »

So they're launching the first BusConnects route with 12 year old single door buses operating on some services? Ffs. They've known for over a year that the H spine would be the first to launch.

To be fair though, the livery really makes the bus looks younger than it is:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/irishtransport/viewtopic.php?p=117500#p117500

Having the lights black really helps.

Peregrine · 20-05-2021 9:31pm

devnull wrote: »

To be fair though, the livery really makes the bus looks younger than it is:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/irishtransport/viewtopic.php?p=117500#p117500

Having the lights black really helps.

The livery does look really nice on the EVs unlike the GTs. It's still a stuffy old EV inside though.

It only takes 27-30 buses to operate the 6 and the H spine at peak times. They should have all been PAs or a mix of PAs and SGs.

BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

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