BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

GT89

devnull wrote: »

To be fair though, the livery really makes the bus looks younger than it is:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/irishtransport/viewtopic.php?p=117500#p117500

Having the lights black really helps.

They don't look outdated on the outside actually the Enviro 400 design was used from 2006 to 2013 so fairly modern looking but they do look outdated in the inside with bench seats and the EVs always seem to be in a worse condition. I can't understand why DB continued to order buses with bench seats until 2008 the practice died out with most UK operators in the late 90s/early 00s.

Me personally I think they should accelerate fleet renewal over the next few years in order to get a fully dual door fleet and free of bench seats. The EVs are pretty awful I'd take an AX any day of the week over an EV awful buses for comfort and legroom.

punisher5112

GT89 wrote: »

They don't look outdated on the outside actually the Enviro 400 design was used from 2006 to 2013 so fairly modern looking but they do look outdated in the inside with bench seats and the EVs always seem to be in a worse condition. I can't understand why DB continued to order buses with bench seats until 2008 the practice died out with most UK operators in the late 90s/early 00s.

Me personally I think they should accelerate fleet renewal over the next few years in order to get a fully dual door fleet and free of bench seats. The EVs are pretty awful I'd take an AX any day of the week over an EV awful buses for comfort and legroom.

They had single seats back in 95/96 if I recall on the city Swift's....

Ev always stink, the leg room is shocking bad as you say, way too cramped, very loud bus too, too much engine noise.

They were nice to drive new, very fast also and handled better then an AX especially in the snow....

GT89

punisher5112 wrote: »

They had single seats back in 95/96 if I recall on the city Swift's....

Ev always stink, the leg room is shocking bad as you say, way too cramped, very loud bus too, too much engine noise.

They were nice to drive new, very fast also and handled better then an AX especially in the snow....

Also the windows seem to fog up worse than other buses and if you sit at a window seat on a wet day you risk a soaking.

Annasopra

bk wrote: »

Poorly maintained bus poles and shelters can absolutely give a bad impression of a bus service.

In fairness to DB, they seemed to be aware of this and generally kept their poles and shelters well maintained, with from what I've seen regular cleaning, painting and replacing when needed. *

* This includes a bus shelter near my home that is maintained in immaculate condition, despite no bus serving it in almost 20 years!!

But until recently this hasn't been the case outside of Dublin. In Cork for instance I'd say most of the poles hadn't been replaced or seen a lick of paint in 40 years.

I mean seriously bad condition, rusting, falling over, even a danger to pedestrians and passing cars.

I remember the bus shelter across from my parents house was made out of metal and had massive holes rusted through it in the roof and back of it.

All of the above added up to BE services having a very bad image in Cork. People thought it was a very poor service and only poor people who couldn't afford a car would use it.

I notice that in Cork, peoples impressions of the bus service are improving greatly over the past 5 years or so, as the bus fleet is now younger, they are better cleaned and maintained, poles and shelters have now all been replaced, etc.

This might not be as obvious if you have lived all your life in Dublin, as Dublin was already at this level the past 20 years, but as a Corkonian who has seen the opposite, I can tell you how much these sort of small details matter.

BTW as an aside, any marketing person would think you are mad not to keep such street side furniture well maintained, fresh and well presented. These are basically an advertisement for the company/service on every street in the city! Advertising companies would pay massive money for such street side advertising (thus the bus shelters), the cost of such advertising would be vastly more then the cost of maintenance and regular replacement.

Oh completely agree - Dublin Bus - Poles and shelters - kept clean, maintained well, Bus Eireann - some of them havent been touched since the 1970s - they are filthy, shabby, out of date information

GT89

Annasopra wrote: »

Oh completely agree - Dublin Bus - Poles and shelters - kept clean, maintained well, Bus Eireann - some of them havent been touched since the 1970s - they are filthy, shabby, out of date information

There's a whole Twitter page dedicated to how bad BE bus stops are in Limerick city
https://twitter.com/StopsBus/status/1379837332161974275?s=19

CatInABox

Saw some of the new poles out on Collins Avenue yesterday, between the Malahide and Howth Roads, so it's not just the Howth Road they're doing. This would be the route of the N4 bus.

Saw some out past Raheny as well, so they're making ok progress with it. Also saw that one of them had the timetable on it, reminded me of London with the little route diagram on it.

CatInABox

I've actually seen a few more down East Wall today, so maybe they're just spreading out from the H spine.

dublinman1990

The new livery on EV78 looks really nice. How many EVs are Dublin Bus using for the H Spine?

VonLuck

Does anyone know where the radial / city bound routes fit into the overall timeline? These are the purple (non-spine) routes which I imagine have no associated road upgrade works associated with them. I imagine they could be implemented fairly quickly, right?

cgcsb

VonLuck wrote: »

Does anyone know where the radial / city bound routes fit into the overall timeline? These are the purple (non-spine) routes which I imagine have no associated road upgrade works associated with them. I imagine they could be implemented fairly quickly, right?

AFAIK they'll be brought in along with their associated spine for example the 35 will start along with the B spine and so on as far as I know.

VonLuck

cgcsb wrote: »

AFAIK they'll be brought in along with their associated spine for example the 35 will start along with the B spine and so on as far as I know.

I guess there's some logic to that if the route adjustments need the spines to work alongside them to avoid any areas being missed.

dublinman1990

Some bad news about BusConnects being reported by the Irish Examiner.

BusConnects

Meanwhile, the tendering process for construction on BusConnects Dublin, the wholesale redesign of the capital’s bus transit system, will not begin before the end of this year, at the earliest, as “the formal planning process has not yet been initiated”, the NTA said.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40297175.html#:~:text=Irish%20Rail%20is%20buying%2041,%E2%82%AC3.65m%20per%20unit.&text=The%20first%20carriage%20is%20unlikely,pandemic%E2%80%9D%20according%20to%20Irish%20Rail

StreetLight

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Some bad news about BusConnects being reported by the Irish Examiner.



https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40297175.html#:~:text=Irish%20Rail%20is%20buying%2041,%E2%82%AC3.65m%20per%20unit.&text=The%20first%20carriage%20is%20unlikely,pandemic%E2%80%9D%20according%20to%20Irish%20Rail

They're confusing the Network Review with the Corridor Project.

cgcsb

I wasn't expecting the tender process for the CBCs to start this year. That's a surprise. They'll surely submit a planning application to ABP in 2021 though?

Pete_Cavan

This may not be part of BusConnects directly but seems to relate to it as I don't know of any other major change programme to transform bus services in Dublin which the NTA has embarked on;

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/189707/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

Provision of Management Services for Bus Station and Terminus Design and Construction

punisher5112

I have yet to see or come across any bus stops design where a bus can get in or out with ease or a stop where you can operate both doors safely.

Oy stops where the road is say straight and the bus stops along side without having to turn in or out....

GT89

punisher5112 wrote: »

I have yet to see or come across any bus stops design where a bus can get in or out with ease or a stop where you can operate both doors safely.

Oy stops where the road is say straight and the bus stops along side without having to turn in or out....

No stop should require the bus to pull in off the road all should be in line with the kerb as much much as possible. Can't see the purpose of having stops off the road only to give motorists priority.

Citrus_8

Bus stop pockets to pull off the road are only beneficial and sometimes necessary only on the fast roads (motorway, national road), outskirts, but not in city where actually it's not good for buses as they loose their spot on the road and then need to fight to get back on the road... So much of priority... Then need to design Bus priority lights to help them get back on road... Simplest way is to align bus stops with roads, again, in city, not outskirts or on M/N roads.

Burt Renaults

punisher5112 wrote: »

I have yet to see or come across any bus stops design where a bus can get in or out with ease or a stop where you can operate both doors safely.

Oy stops where the road is say straight and the bus stops along side without having to turn in or out....

The 14/75/175 bus stop outside the Catholic church on Dundrum Main St. is particularly well designed. It's easy to safely align both doors millimetres from the kerb, and there's no room for cars to overtake.

Peregrine

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

This may not be part of BusConnects directly but seems to relate to it as I don't know of any other major change programme to transform bus services in Dublin which the NTA has embarked on;

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/189707/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

Provision of Management Services for Bus Station and Terminus Design and Construction

Yeah, it's for the design, planning and construction management of bus stops and interchanges for BusConnects. Dublin and possibly the other cities too.

punisher5112

Burt Renaults wrote: »

The 14/75/175 bus stop outside the Catholic church on Dundrum Main St. is particularly well designed. It's easy to safely align both doors millimetres from the kerb, and there's no room for cars to overtake.

Yay one stop.... Obviously there are a few but really most are terribly designed.

dublinman1990

I would assume that tender relates to the newly built bus shelters, with the integrated RT displays built into it, that were constructed over the winter holidays on O'Connell St & Westmoreland St up until very recently. The NTA are maybe planning to build more of those new shelters at selected bus stops all throughout the GDA and to other cities covered under the BusConnects programme.

In regards to Interchanges; I would also think that this is the tender notice that will give the winning bidder the final plans, subject to planning permission, to build the new interchanges that are planned to be built at locations like near the flyover on UCD Belfield and at Liffey Valley SC.

Someone can correct me on that if I make a mistake if it's necessary.

Pete_Cavan

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I would assume that tender relates to the newly built bus shelters, with the integrated RT displays built into it, that were constructed over the winter holidays on O'Connell St & Westmoreland St up until very recently. The NTA are maybe planning to build more of those new shelters at selected bus stops all throughout the GDA and to other cities covered under the BusConnects programme.

In regards to Interchanges; I would also think that this is the tender notice that will give the winning bidder the final plans, subject to planning permission, to build the new interchanges that are planned to be built at locations like near the flyover on UCD Belfield and at Liffey Valley SC.

Someone can correct me on that if I make a mistake if it's necessary.

It doesn't relate to general stops, rather interchanges and termini specifically. From the tender notice;

The implementation of the redesigned network will be supported by some changes to the road network infrastructure, with:
• new and improved interchange and passenger facilities at key locations (“Bus
Stations”);
• a significant number of alterations to termini and bus standing facilities at existing locations and new termini and bus standing facilities at new locations (“Bus Termini”); and
• other related infrastructure works required to facilitate the delivery of enhanced bus services.

So it seems interchanges at key locations (like at UCD Belfield and Liffey Valley SC as you mention) seem to be termed “Bus Stations”, presumably to differentiate them from normal bus stops.

Interchanges will be key to BC so it is good they are looking at them separately. Similarly well designed termini will be very important.

jams100

punisher5112 wrote: »

I have yet to see or come across any bus stops design where a bus can get in or out with ease or a stop where you can operate both doors safely.

Oy stops where the road is say straight and the bus stops along side without having to turn in or out....

Yep totally agree and it's something I pointed out in bus connects consultantation.

Especially bad at rush hour on palmerstown bypass where you could have 4 or 5 busses waiting on one bus to let out and take on just one or two passengers.

The result being that all 5 busses end up missing the green traffic lights at the next set of lights, particularly bad as you also have national as well as dublin bus routes using this road.

BonnieSituation

jams100 wrote: »

Yep totally agree and it's something I pointed out in bus connects consultantation.

Especially bad at rush hour on palmerstown bypass where you could have 4 or 5 busses waiting on one bus to let out and take on just one or two passengers.

The result being that all 5 busses end up missing the green traffic lights at the next set of lights, particularly bad as you also have national as well as dublin bus routes using this road.

It would help to close off Oval access to the N4 as well.

Burt Renaults

punisher5112 wrote: »

Yay one stop.... Obviously there are a few but really most are terribly designed.

It's a good example of what can be done. Since so many people lack the manners to allow a bus to merge into traffic, forcing cars to wait behind the bus is the only answer.

jams100

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It would help to close off Oval access to the N4 as well.

How would that help? You'd be stopped at Kennelsford road lights anyway, it would in fact make it worse as all those residents would be forced into the one junction

Sam Russell

Burt Renaults wrote: »

It's a good example of what can be done. Since so many people lack the manners to allow a bus to merge into traffic, forcing cars to wait behind the bus is the only answer.

Of course that is the answer. Bus indicating to pull out always has priority - 3 penalty points if you do not give way. Could be enforced by camera either at the stop or on the bus.

GT89

Sam Russell wrote: »

Of course that is the answer. Bus indicating to pull out always has priority - 3 penalty points if you do not give way. Could be enforced by camera either at the stop or on the bus.

No need for enforcement if you design the road in such a way that makes it impossible for cars to overtake a bus. Good luck with that when people like Ross objected to giving the NTA power to enforce bus lanes and Garda seem incompetent. Buses years ago used to have a notice on the back telling cars to please allow the bus to pull out can't understand why this was stopped.

Burt Renaults

Sam Russell wrote: »

Of course that is the answer. Bus indicating to pull out always has priority - 3 penalty points if you do not give way. Could be enforced by camera either at the stop or on the bus.

There is no appetite whatsoever to enforce something like that. Also, it would be difficult to enforce and isn't always necessary. The simplest way to avoid confusion is to make it infrastructurally impossible to overtake a bus at certain bus stops. It works very well in Dundrum.