BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

Fizzy Duck

Had a passenger get off a 16 in Ballinteer late at night. She was frantic looking for Clondalkin Village. She got on, on the SCR. There was a 68 due at the same time. So it does happen regularly enough.

dublinman1990

Peregrine wrote: »

In news that won't surprise anyone, the H spine implementation won't start in March 2021 as planned before COVID. Delayed by a few months.

What I have heard is that all of the SG's that will be allocated to the H Spine need to be resprayed in the new livery first before they go out on the new routes. I assumes it sort of ties-up with the development that all of the bus stops along the H routes are currently being repainted in the new green & yellow designs (like what is happening now on the Malahide Road in Donnycarney atm) before it's officially launches later in the year.

There is some talk coming from the unions about issues with the new Hybrids. Apparently the new hybrids won't be going in service until March this year. I have no clue what these issues are at the moment. It would be great if someone may shed some light on them if they have the info maybe here or in the C&T Hybrid bus thread.

ax586

dublinman1990 wrote: »

What I have heard is that all of the SG's that will be allocated to the H Spine need to be resprayed in the new livery first before they go out on the new routes. I assumes it sort of ties-up with the development that all of the bus stops along the H routes are currently being repainted in the new green & yellow designs (like what is happening now on the Malahide Road in Donnycarney atm) before it's officially launches later in the year.

There is some talk coming from the unions about issues with the new Hybrids. Apparently the new hybrids won't be going in service until March this year. I have no clue what these issues are at the moment. It would be great if someone may shed some light on them if they have the info maybe here or in the C&T Hybrid bus thread.

They wont be in service till least April,the security screen for drivers on Dublin bus ADL need a few tweeks and few other small issues..

Contrails

dublinman1990 wrote: »

What I have heard is that all of the SG's that will be allocated to the H Spine need to be resprayed in the new livery first before they go out on the new routes. I assumes it sort of ties-up with the development that all of the bus stops along the H routes are currently being repainted in the new green & yellow designs (like what is happening now on the Malahide Road in Donnycarney atm) before it's officially launches later in the year.

There is some talk coming from the unions about issues with the new Hybrids. Apparently the new hybrids won't be going in service until March this year. I have no clue what these issues are at the moment. It would be great if someone may shed some light on them if they have the info maybe here or in the C&T Hybrid bus thread.

SG 366 in a new frock on Abbey Street.

MJohnston

I like the new livery, but the leaf on it is a bit misleading considering the hybrid buses starting to be included in the fleet.

punisher5112

MJohnston wrote: »

I like the new livery, but the leaf on it is a bit misleading considering the hybrid buses starting to be included in the fleet.

Especially as the sg drink diesel but emissions are low as is Nox...

GT89

punisher5112 wrote: »

Especially as the sg drink diesel but emissions are low as is Nox...

Yes more powerful large vehicles are more actually more fuel efficient. I honestly wonder will the hybrids actually be more fuel efficient considering the GT is more fuel efficient than the SG.

That being said the 182 up SGs seem to be a bit more powerful than the older ones.

GT89

MJohnston wrote: »

I like the new livery, but the leaf on it is a bit misleading considering the hybrid buses starting to be included in the fleet.

Why not have on the side of the bus in small writing. Hybrid bus, Low emission diesel bus or 100% Electric bus depending on fuel type. London buses have this on theirs.

punisher5112

GT89 wrote: »

Why not have on the side of the bus in small writing. Hybrid bus, Low emission diesel bus or 100% Electric bus depending on fuel type. London buses have this on theirs.

I believe they still have a diesel generator for heating.

Peregrine

GT89 wrote: »

Why not have on the side of the bus in small writing. Hybrid bus, Low emission diesel bus or 100% Electric bus depending on fuel type. London buses have this on theirs.

The hydrogen buses are specifically marked as zero emissions on the side of the bus. Maybe the hybrids will get a low emissions sign.

punisher5112

Still think they're all too bare

Tomrota

Vic_08 wrote: »

Most people are aware though and will not attempt to stop or board a Bus Eireann bus passing by. That is true of the routes run with near identical double deck buses as well as coaches, the current clear difference between a blue/yellow and white/red makes it very clear they are not a city route bus.

The fundamental difference between the two networks, primarily the BE/regional buses being pick up/set down only for most if not all of the overlapping routes they share with city bus routes, as well as not being part of the same fare/ticket framework is more than a good enough reason to make them visually different.

I have no doubt there will be more confusion and conflict with buses on both networks being near identical in appearance.

Even with a standard NTA livery, there is nothing stopping them applying the same paint layout in clearly different colours, either keep the BE red/white or chose a different palette that instantly makes regional buses stand out from the city buses.

There is some irony that Go-Ahead are the other main operator involved. They are the only large UK group with no corporate livery, who far more than any other operator opt for route-specific liveries and heavily individualised route branding.

I agree, they should have different liveries with the current fragmented fare structure but if they have similar/the same livery, then the fare should also reflect this. If a Bus Eireann service enters the city area, the fare should be integrated and aligned into the city fare. There are many high frequency routes like the 133 or the 126 that run empty all the time which people within the city area could benefit from. And there are areas like Naas which rely on these services and have no other transport options. So I should think the NTA should also review the fare structure of these routes to reflect the service. Furthermore, those who use these routes shouldn’t suffer financial penalty of switching to a city bus. Currently you have to pay two separate fares, even if you only live 25km from the city. When I went to UCD, I often had to pay up to 70€ per week to avail of that service cause there is no LEAP 90 discount or anything of the sort available on those services. Most other students are capped at 20 or 30€ per week. It renders the service unsuitable for regular commuting and pushed me to buy a car for my commutes.

GT89

Tomrota wrote: »

I agree, they should have different liveries with the current fragmented fare structure but if they have similar/the same livery, then the fare should also reflect this. If a Bus Eireann service enters the city area, the fare should be integrated and aligned into the city fare. There are many high frequency routes like the 133 or the 126 that run empty all the time which people within the city area could benefit from. And there are areas like Naas which rely on these services and have no other transport options. So I should think the NTA should also review the fare structure of these routes to reflect the service. Furthermore, those who use these routes shouldn’t suffer financial penalty of switching to a city bus. Currently you have to pay two separate fares, even if you only live 25km from the city. When I went to UCD, I often had to pay up to 70€ per week to avail of that service cause there is no LEAP 90 discount or anything of the sort available on those services. Most other students are capped at 20 or 30€ per week. It renders the service unsuitable for regular commuting and pushed me to buy a car for my commutes.

I disagree allowing drop offs throughout the route would cause the bus to be delayed by people travelling only within Dublin. At peak times it would cause passengers travelling outside of Dublin to be left behind due to those only going a short distance filling up the bus to capacity but only going a couple of stops when they could have used a city service. This is already an issue with of the Xpresso routes like the 84x. I can't imagine someone going to Wicklow being best pleased when the 133 goes by full with passengers only going to Foxrock Church.

I agree about the lack of Leap discounts on the routes you mention maybe something like a day travelcard would solve this.

Tomrota

GT89 wrote: »

I disagree allowing drop offs throughout the route would cause the bus to be delayed by people travelling only within Dublin. At peak times it would cause passengers travelling outside of Dublin to be left behind due to those only going a short distance filling up the bus to capacity but only going a couple of stops when they could have used a city service. This is already an issue with of the Xpresso routes like the 84x. I can't imagine someone going to Wicklow being best pleased when the 133 goes by full with passengers only going to Foxrock Church.

I agree about the lack of Leap discounts on the routes you mention maybe something like a day travelcard would solve this.

Perhaps but then again it could lead to more frequency on the route. Interesting you mention the 84X. The 84X is just about same length as the 126 but the fares are so different. One service offers rambler ticket, LEAP 90 discounts, a standard fare, and LEAP caps. The other is completely disintegrated from the transport system. Maybe it’s not a good idea as you pointed out, but the inequality in fare determination and fare features (LEAP caps, etc) needs to be addressed ASAP. I learnt that the hard way commuting to UCD.

GT89

Tomrota wrote: »

Perhaps but then again it could lead to more frequency on the route. Interesting you mention the 84X. The 84X is just about same length as the 126 but the fares are so different. One service offers rambler ticket, LEAP 90 discounts, a standard fare, and LEAP caps. The other is completely disintegrated from the transport system. Maybe it’s not a good idea as you pointed out, but the inequality in fare determination and fare features (LEAP caps, etc) needs to be addressed ASAP. I learnt that the hard way commuting to UCD.

Yeah but the 126 is a different type of service to the 84x. 84x is peak only whereas the 126 runs all day everyday. The 126 is also a quicker more direct service whereas the 84x is a longer more circuitous route. A fairer comparison I think would be Balbriggan where many people are willing to pay the higher fare to travel on the more direct 101 than take the longer 33. If there was to be a DB route to Naas it would likely be a very circuitous journey just like the other routes travelling long distances from the cc such as the 33, 65 and 84.

Tomrota

GT89 wrote: »

Yeah but the 126 is a different type of service to the 84x. 84x is peak only whereas the 126 runs all day everyday. The 126 is also a quicker more direct service whereas the 84x is a longer more circuitous route. A fairer comparison I think would be Balbriggan where many people are willing to pay the higher fare to travel on the more direct 101 than take the longer 33. If there was to be a DB route to Naas it would likely be a very circuitous journey just like the other routes travelling long distances from the cc such as the 33, 65 and 84.

True points, however, I’m just speaking from the point of view of a student. I would have to catch a 126 and a 145/other. And in my case the lack of integration and expensive fares on that route directly led me to switch to travelling by car. If there was a DB route which fed into a frequency route or even a train station (under busconnects), that would have been a far better option for me.

What sort of integrated ticketing do you think the NTA should make on routes like 126?

GT89

Tomrota wrote: »

True points, however, I’m just speaking from the point of view of a student. I would have to catch a 126 and a 145/other. And in my case the lack of integration and expensive fares on that route directly led me to switch to travelling by car. If there was a DB route which fed into a frequency route or even a train station (under busconnects), that would have been a far better option for me.

What sort of integrated ticketing do you think the NTA should make on routes like 126?

Last time I was in London I took the train from Gatwick Airport to London City centre. The ticket I bought had a day travelcard on it which entitled me to unlimited bus and tube travel once within London for the rest of the day so maybe something similar could be applied in Dublin. Is there not a shuttle bus from Naas to Sallins Station. I thought BE offered student discounts.

Tomrota

GT89 wrote: »

Last time I was in London I took the train from Gatwick Airport to London City centre. The ticket I bought had a day travelcard on it which entitled me to unlimited bus and tube travel once within London for the rest of the day so maybe something similar could be applied in Dublin. Is there not a shuttle bus from Naas to Sallins Station. I thought BE offered student discounts.

The NTA could create a similar card, but as with everything else this will probably only apply to Dublin Bus, Luas and DART. There is a random private bus that goes to the train station maybe 4 times a day (as far as I’m aware). And literally nobody knows the timetable for that bus, not even irish rail. That’s not feasible public transport. No PSO bus routes serve Sallins train station and it doesn’t look like that will ever happen. Not gonna lie, jealous of all these feeder bus routes to train stations/Luas stations that have been created under BusConnects. Ironically the train fare is included in the short hop zone but buses are completely disintegrated. Dunno if that occurs anywhere else in the GDA.

And yes Go Ahead offer student discounts, however nothing will ever beat the value of DB. They are marginal and still way too expensive in my opinion. Compare the travel costs for a student from Maynooth going to UCD and a student from Naas going to UCD. Night and day. Don’t wanna turn this into a rant from an angry student, but moral of the story is using public transport from a relatively close commuter town is not feasible due to cost. And that the NTA should address these fare inequality issues. Your idea is good but if the NTA introduced such a card, it would most definitely exclude route 126.

GT89

Tomrota wrote: »

The NTA could create a similar card, but as with everything else this will probably only apply to Dublin Bus, Luas and DART. There is a random private bus that goes to the train station maybe 4 times a day (as far as I’m aware). And literally nobody knows the timetable for that bus, not even irish rail. That’s not feasible public transport. No PSO bus routes serve Sallins train station and it doesn’t look like that will ever happen. Not gonna lie, jealous of all these feeder bus routes to train stations/Luas stations that have been created under BusConnects.

And yes Go Ahead offer student discounts, however nothing will ever beat the value of DB. Compare the travel costs for a student from Maynooth going to UCD and a student from Naas going to UCD. Night and day. Don’t wanna turn this into a rant from an angry student, but moral of the story is using public transport from a relatively close commuter town is not feasible due to cost. And that the NTA should address these fare inequality issues. Your idea is good but if the NTA introduced such a card, it would most definitely exclude route 126.

No the idea of the card is to be used on outer suburban journies. It wasn't an actual card BTW it is something that you automatically get when you purchase a train ticket from a station outside London to a station inside London.

dublinman1990

GT89 wrote: »

Yeah but the 126 is a different type of service to the 84x. 84x is peak only whereas the 126 runs all day everyday. The 126 is also a quicker more direct service whereas the 84x is a longer more circuitous route. A fairer comparison I think would be Balbriggan where many people are willing to pay the higher fare to travel on the more direct 101 than take the longer 33. If there was to be a DB route to Naas it would likely be a very circuitous journey just like the other routes travelling long distances from the cc such as the 33, 65 and 84.

Except the 84 does not go into town anymore. It goes either to or from Blackrock.

Re: The spines for BusConnects Dublin.

I might have some idea of which depot could be allocated the spine routes when they get rolled out in Dublin. I could assume that most of the spines in Dublin would be allocated to one depot only while one other spine could go to other depots if there was spare capacity to take them on. Here is where I could see where these routes go once they get rolled out in the capital for the moment. I don't mind being corrected on this btw if I do get things wrong. I only just giving a possible snapshot of where these routes could be allocated to date once they have they have their launch dates in place.

A Spine - Summerhill/Clontarf (More likely Summerhill)
B Spine - Phibsboro
C Spine - Conyngham Road/Ringsend
D Spine - Not sure yet
E Spine - Donnybrook
F Spine - Not sure yet
G Spine - Not sure yet
H Spine - Clontarf

There are some things that have been on my mind for a bit with the possible allocations for Summerhill & Clontarf and Conyngham Road & Ringsend. The A spine is replacing part of the 41 group because they currently serve Swords. The 41 group of routes are all run out of Clontarf Depot. The A spine also covers part of the current 14 & 16 in Ballinteer & Dundrum. I am thinking that Summerhill can take the A routes.

The C spine may go to 2 depots together if it was necessary. I think that Ringsend should be able to run the routes if their drivers know Sandymount, Ringsend or Irishtown. Conyngham Road depot could take them on as well if they know Adamstown & Lucan areas.

The B spine has their routes running in Blanchardstown, Ongar, Tyrellstown & along the Navan Road. The E spine will be based at Donnybrook.

I have no idea where the D, F, G spine will go yet when they get allocated to their depots because I forget what areas these routes will cover.

ax586

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Except the 84 does not go into town anymore. It goes either to or from Blackrock.

Re: The spines for BusConnects Dublin.

I might have some idea of which depot could be allocated the spine routes when they get rolled out in Dublin. I could assume that most of the spines in Dublin would be allocated to one depot only while one other spine could go to other depots if there was spare capacity to take them on. Here is where I could see where these routes go once they get rolled out in the capital for the moment. I don't mind being corrected on this btw if I do get things wrong. I only just giving a possible snapshot of where these routes could be allocated to date once they have they have their launch dates in place.

A Spine - Summerhill/Clontarf (More likely Summerhill)
B Spine - Phibsboro
C Spine - Conyngham Road/Ringsend
D Spine - Not sure yet
E Spine - Donnybrook
F Spine - Not sure yet
G Spine - Not sure yet
H Spine - Clontarf

There are some things that have been on my mind for a bit with the possible allocations for Summerhill & Clontarf and Conyngham Road & Ringsend. The A spine is replacing part of the 41 group because they currently serve Swords. The 41 group of routes are all run out of Clontarf Depot. The A spine also covers part of the current 14 & 16 in Ballinteer & Dundrum. I am thinking that Summerhill can take the A routes.

The C spine may go to 2 depots together if it was necessary. I think that Ringsend should be able to run the routes if their drivers know Sandymount, Ringsend or Irishtown. Conyngham Road depot could take them on as well if they know Adamstown & Lucan areas.

The B spine has their routes running in Blanchardstown, Ongar, Tyrellstown & along the Navan Road. The E spine will be based at Donnybrook.

I have no idea where the D, F, G spine will go yet when they get allocated to their depots because I forget what areas these routes will cover.

The 41 runs out from Summerhill

GT89

It wouldn't surprise if they allocate each spine to a single depot in order to gear up for tendering. My bet is once the network redesign is complete and settled in all DB routes will be put out to tender. Keeping all the routes to one depot and not having routes operated by multiple sheds will make it easier to tender out. Say all routes in Clontarf go to Arriva and all routes in Ringsend go to Stagecoach for example.

Cookie_Monster

punisher5112 wrote: »

Happens a lot on like of N11 and some gonuts that you should be going one way etc but they're on the wrong bus.

I remember well all the people who would freak out after Foxrock church as the 145 went straight on instead of turning left like the 46a

p_haugh

According to a post today on the Irish Road Passenger Transport Forum, GT120 is currently getting the new livery applied (along with SG 312, 313, and 345)

jd

dublinman1990 wrote: »

A Spine - Summerhill/Clontarf (More likely Summerhill)
B Spine - Phibsboro
C Spine - Conyngham Road/Ringsend
D Spine - Not sure yet
E Spine - Donnybrook
F Spine - Not sure yet
G Spine - Not sure yet
H Spine - Clontarf

E could well be Harristown. Site at Donnybrook is worth a lot!

Hotblack Desiato

Isn't it a listed building though? If not it should be.

GT89

jd wrote: »

E could well be Harristown. Site at Donnybrook is worth a lot!

Bray-Harristown would be a hell of a dead run and a waste of fuel. Donnybrook is in an ideal location for handovers on n11 services.

Dyr

Contrails wrote: »

SG 366 in a new frock on Abbey Street.

Take a look at the railings in the foreground, the lampost down the street, the church in the background. This was a handsome city once.

Then compare them to the brushed aluminium bus stop, the bus paint scheme, the dog ugly Luas in the background and SIPTU Towers looming above it all to put the tin hat of crapness on the scene

Vandalism.

.anon.

Bambi wrote: »

Take a look at the railings in the foreground, the lampost down the street, the church in the background. This was a handsome city once.

Then compare them to the brushed aluminium bus stop, the bus paint scheme, the dog ugly Luas in the background and SIPTU Towers looming above it all to put the tin hat of crapness on the scene

Vandalism.

Looks fine to me, with the exception of Liberty Hall. The bus livery and the aluminium stops are a vast improvement on what preceded them. And I've always felt that the Luas blends nicely into the city.

GT89

.anon. wrote: »

Looks fine to me, with the exception of Liberty Hall. The bus livery and the aluminium stops are a vast improvement on what preceded them. And I've always felt that the Luas blends nicely into the city.

I feel like the poster in question is pulling your leg