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Achill asylum centre cancelled - mod warning in OP (01/11/19)

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Comments

  • #802
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    Never once heard of a tax rise due to immigrants, nor have I ever heard of a tax decrease because of a lack of them.

    17 year studies of UK migration find that it had a negative impact on uk finances for non EEC migrants to the tune of 104-134 BILLION pounds. while they may not mark it 'immigrant tax' the money has to come from somewhere.

    https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/


  • #803
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,946 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    Never once heard of a tax rise due to immigrants, nor have I ever heard of a tax decrease because of a lack of them.

    But taxes are spent are they not? Monies that could be spent elsewhere?
    Im not really interested in this angle of the debate, but you are clearly being disingenuous about it


  • #804
    lola85
    Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭lola85


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Once again Varadkar's ignorance sticks it's head out of selfie land.
    His talk on Georgia and Albania is nothing short of idiotic. Gays in both places are persecuted and beaten. There may not be a war the someone Instagramed Leo about, but that doesn't mean it's safe for everyone.
    I would have thought Leo might be more well read on the issue, but then again, it is Leo.

    So we just take in anyone who says their gay and could be beaten up?

    Lame duck excuse and anyone could use it.


  • #805
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    Well in fairness, everyone on the thread is 'minutes' from the same town. Be it 5 or 5000 of them.
    It is a straightforward question, how far away do you live from the town?

    Youll forgive me if I dont want to give an inkling of my location on a thread such as this, pitchforks and torches outside my window in no time.


  • #806
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    lola85 wrote: »
    So we just take in anyone who says their gay and could be beaten up?

    Lame duck excuse and anyone could use it.

    The point is singling out those areas because they aren't war torn is stupid.
    Everyone is taken in based on their story. Leo stating a lot of chancers come from those places because they are deemed 'safe' is pig ignorant coming from the political leader of a country.


  • #807
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    Never once heard of a tax rise due to immigrants, nor have I ever heard of a tax decrease because of a lack of them.

    All depends on the immigrant in question doesn't it. Contribute or complete drain.


  • #808
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    Youll forgive me if I dont want to give an inkling of my location on a thread such as this, pitchforks and torches outside my window in no time.

    What a pusillanimous cop-out of a post.


  • #809
    Ronin247
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Ronin247


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Once again Varadkar's ignorance sticks it's head out of selfie land.
    His talk on Georgia and Albania is nothing short of idiotic. Gays in both places are persecuted and beaten. There may not be a war the someone Instagramed Leo about, but that doesn't mean it's safe for everyone.
    I would have thought Leo might be more well read on the issue, but then again, it is Leo.

    Of course the facts and figures for the Georgian and Albanian asylum seekers have been repeatedly provided, whereas your opinion is just that.. your opinion.
    Please tell us what issues Leo is not well read on pertaining to this particular situation.


  • #810
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    What a pusillanimous cop-out of a post.

    Grand so its all a hoax on my part,no refugees live in any town in Ireland, Achill has been unfairly targeted as the epicentre of mass migration.


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  • #811
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »
    All depends on the immigrant in question doesn't it. Contribute or complete drain.

    So individuals cause tax rises? I always thought they were the elected ones.


  • #812
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    Grand so its all a hoax on my part,no refugees live in any town in Ireland, Achill has been unfairly targeted as the epicentre of mass migration.

    Pitchforks and torches outside your window in no time. That's a hoax.


  • #813
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Leo stating a lot of chancers come from those places because they are deemed 'safe' is pig ignorant coming from the political leader of a country.

    He's simply speaking from (already verified) logic, in this regard.

    Likely is referring to locations such as the (single largest) source with the 99.97% rejection rate. Yes 99.97% !!!
    Of course many others too, have the very high percentiles (82-97%) of rejection also.

    I.e. Mostly chancers from these specific locations, it would actually be pig ignorant to deny the clear trend and proven correlation.

    Whereas another (single) source is deemed 99% genuine, from last year's totals.


  • #814
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    Never once heard of a tax rise due to immigrants, nor have I ever heard of a tax decrease because of a lack of them.
    But you've heard of 'deliberate health tourism', yes?

    This via (non-EU or illegal) migrants costs somewhere such as England hundreds of millions £'s per year.

    Unless it's covered by 'magic tooth fairies', it gets taken out of their NHS budget each year, as a fiscal writedown (loss). This has to be paid for by taxes or reduced services.


  • #815
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    Blaming immigrants for one's financial woes, this all seems strangely familiar....


  • #816
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    So individuals cause tax rises? I always thought they were the elected ones.

    Yes if just 1 will not contribute there will be tax increase. :-O Look I'm not going to answer stupid twisting of posts. If welfare expenditure increases significantly because of accepting enough spoofers in then yes there will be tax increases. What's the cost of this little experiment already? I'm guessing not cheap and this is just providing DP style accomodation with
    small cost of living handouts.


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  • #817
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,819 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    Blaming immigrants for one's financial woes, this all seems strangely familiar....



    I think all are agreed that only those immigrants gaming the system from countries identified by Varakar are responsible for this.


  • #818
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Once again Varadkar's ignorance sticks it's head out of selfie land.
    His talk on Georgia and Albania is nothing short of idiotic. Gays in both places are persecuted and beaten. There may not be a war the someone Instagramed Leo about, but that doesn't mean it's safe for everyone.
    I would have thought Leo might be more well read on the issue, but then again, it is Leo.

    The most perinent questions you should ask are:

    1. Where is the closest safe country that people from these countries can claim asylum. For Albania it is either Greece of Italy. Georgia is more difficult, but if they are flying there are no direct flights to Dublin. However they can transfer in Munich or fly to Istanbul and then stopover in Paris so there you go. Claim asylum in Munich. Or Paris.

    2. Where are they coming from to claim asylum? If a claimant from one of those countries has had a stop-over in another jurisdiction in Europe then, as above, lots of luck and back you go to claim asylum there.

    3. Are any of the Georgians or Albanians coming here from another EU country where they either a) should have claimed Asylum or b) Have lived there illegally and now want to come here to claim asylum or c) Have had their asylum application rejected in another EU country.

    Varadkar is not wrong.


  • #819
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »
    Yes if just 1 will not contribute there will be tax increase. :-O Look I'm not going to answer stupid twisting of posts. If welfare expenditure increases significantly because of accepting enough spoofers in then yes there will be tax increases. What's the cost of this little experiment already? I'm guessing not cheap and this is just providing DP style accomodation with
    small cost of living handouts.

    Dont know where this "accepting of spoofers" is coming from, yere own stats prove the vast majority are being refused entry, what more do ye want? Blasted into space?


  • #820
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    Dont know where this "accepting of spoofers" is coming from, yere own stats prove the vast majority are being refused entry, what more do ye want? Blasted into space?

    Why are they still sitting on DP for years so? Well I'd say if welfare was as generous on the moon as here. Then space might be the new favourite destination :)


  • #821
    Ciaranis
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭Ciaranis


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    It would make perfect sense if you were up to speed.

    Explain it then, so we can all watch it fall apart together.


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  • #822
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »
    Why are they still sitting on DP for years so? Well I'd say if welfare was as generous on the moon as here. Then space might be the new favourite destination :)

    Yes the promised land, €38.80 a week in a prison like environment.


  • #823
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    The most perinent questions you should ask are:

    1. Where is the closest safe country that people from these countries can claim asylum. For Albania it is either Greece of Italy. Georgia is more difficult, but if they are flying there are no direct flights to Dublin. However they can transfer in Munich or fly to Istanbul and then stopover in Paris so there you go. Claim asylum in Munich. Or Paris.

    2. Where are they coming from to claim asylum? If a claimant from one of those countries has had a stop-over in another jurisdiction in Europe then, as above, lots of luck and back you go to claim asylum there.

    3. Are any of the Georgians or Albanians coming here from another EU country where they either a) should have claimed Asylum or b) Have lived there illegally and now want to come here to claim asylum or c) Have had their asylum application rejected in another EU country.

    Varadkar is not wrong.

    It is wrong and ignorant for the leader of a country to pick out two entire countries and vilify them for a handy sound bite. He is writing off people from those counties and generalising when we rate people on a case by case. Every person deserves the same chance and benefit of the doubt.
    It's okay for a nobody on the internet to talk like that but not a Taoiseach even if it is Leo.


  • #824
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    Ciaranis wrote: »
    Explain it then, so we can all watch it fall apart together.

    In response to your ill-informed remark about...
    hoary old tropes about spongers and chancers without a shred of evidence to back up any such assertions.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111683391&postcount=770

    Georgian ambassador to Ireland, George Zurabashvilli, told The Irish Times
    “there are no political circumstances for Georgians to seek asylum in any third countries”.

    He said his government is working with Ireland to prevent the “unauthorised travel of people abroad” and that to his knowledge, the majority of applications by Georgian nationals for asylum in Ireland are refused.

    From the Irish Times website, yesterday.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/varadkar-s-comments-on-illegal-immigration-dangerous-says-rights-group-1.4070902

    Looks like you gave yourself enough trope to hang yourself.

    ;)

    Last time I'm doing your homework for you, by the way. You could have Googled it for yourself.


  • #825
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    Yes the promised land, €38.80 a week in a prison like environment.

    Prison? Jaysus there in the Joy. It's what's at the end of that is the promised land. If it's that bad they can leave.
    Come on, your pretending be naive at this stage.


  • #826
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    In response to your ill-informed remark about...



    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111683391&postcount=770




    From the Irish Times website, yesterday.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/varadkar-s-comments-on-illegal-immigration-dangerous-says-rights-group-1.4070902

    Looks like you gave yourself enough trope to hang yourself.

    ;)

    Last time I'm doing your homework for you, by the way. You could have Googled it for yourself.

    You mean the Georgian representative is saying 'nothing to see here' so we should move along?
    Six years on, the violent scene remains imprinted in the minds of Georgia’s LGBT community: dozens of gay rights demonstrators being beaten in the streets of Tbilisi by black-frocked priests and far-right protesters, some bearing clubs and other weapons. The modern-day pogrom in 2013 seemed like a warning: whatever Georgia’s aspirations to join Europe, its queer community would be left behind.

    But this week activists are planning the country’s first LGBT pride events in a gambit to convert the underground explosion of queer culture in Georgia into political change. Arrayed against them are conservative and Christian activists and a police force that says they can’t guarantee the safety of the protesters. Many fear the violence of 2013 could be repeated.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/16/georgia-prepares-for-first-lgbt-pride-tbilisi-amid-threats-of-violence


  • #827
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »
    Prison? Jaysus there in the Joy. It's what's at the end of that is the promised land. If it's that bad they can leave.
    Come on, your pretending be naive at this stage.

    What exactly is at the end again when 99% of said "chancers" are being refused?


  • #828
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Danna Brief Underclothing wrote: »
    He's simply speaking from (already verified) logic, in this regard.

    Likely is referring to locations such as the (single largest) source with the 99.97% rejection rate. Yes 99.97% !!!
    Of course many others too, have the very high percentiles (82-97%) of rejection also.

    I.e. Mostly chancers from these specific locations, it would actually be pig ignorant to deny the clear trend and proven correlation.

    Whereas another (single) source is deemed 99% genuine, from last year's totals.

    Again, it's not for the leader of a country to speak in such a manner, IMO.
    If these chancers are being refused what's the problem and why insult every persone coming from those places? Does he not realise that when he speaks (some) people take him seriously?


  • #829
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    You mean the Georgian representative is saying 'nothing to see here' so we should move along?

    The Georgian representative speaks for himself.

    A lot of things happen in the world, and actually within the EU, that we are not in a position to do anything much about.

    I don't have the saviour complex either for myself or this country, that some others seem encumbered by.


  • #830
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,946 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    Youll forgive me if I dont want to give an inkling of my location on a thread such as this, pitchforks and torches outside my window in no time.

    No I wont actually, because we dont know what town it is and dont want to know, so you cannot be tracked, nor would anyone be bothered to as far as I can see. Plenty people have stated on here that they live in towns with dp centres so if they arent being tracked then a guy living 'minutes' away in an undisclosed direction is surely safe as houses...
    So, please answer the question.


  • #831
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    No I wont actually, because we dont know what town it is and dont want to know, so you cannot be tracked, nor would anyone be bothered to as far as I can see. Plenty people have stated on here that they live in towns with dp centres so if they arent being tracked then a guy living 'minutes' away in an undisclosed direction is surely safe as houses...
    So, please answer the question.

    Within blast radius of a suicide vest, I'm constantly on edge.


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  • #832
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    Within blast radius of a suicide vest.

    Islamophobic.

    Reported.


  • #833
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    Islamophobic.

    Reported.

    Report away,its called irony/satire, mod will see from all my previous posts Im anything but Islamophobic.


  • #834
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    Report away,its called irony/satire, mod will see from all my previous posts Im anything but Islamophobic.

    No backseat modding, please.

    Reported.

    Joking. This time.


  • #835
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    No backseat modding, please.

    Reported.

    So you've already stated, by definition are you not backseat modding yourself? :)


  • #836
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    What exactly is at the end again when 99% of said "chancers" are being refused?
    Appeal, rinse & repeat.


  • #837
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    So you've already stated, by definition are you not backseat modding yourself? :)

    By pressing the 'report' button ?

    ;)

    Fair play to you, you can take a joke. Kudos.


  • #838
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    recedite wrote: »
    Appeal, rinse & repeat.

    For 38 quid a week and up until last year half that amount.


  • #839
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    For 38 quid a week and up until last year half that amount.

    Remember there not destitute
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #840
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    For 38 quid a week and up until last year half that amount.
    Plenty of scams going on. They are not completely idle.
    Top of the list was Nigeria, which received €375million from the Irish economy. With an estimated 17,500 Nigerians in the country, each sent home an average of €21,400.


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  • #841
    Mules
    Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Mules


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    For 38 quid a week and up until last year half that amount.

    €38.80 on top of child benefit and the choice to earn more by working. Id imagine that the biggest draws are free accommodation, free healthcare and education.


  • #842
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    recedite wrote: »
    Plenty of scams going on. They are not completely idle.

    lots of cases of people dealing drugs or moving stolen goods even while in a DP centre.


  • #843
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Mules wrote: »
    €38.80 on top of child benefit and the choice to earn more by working. Id imagine that the biggest draws are free accommodation, free healthcare and education.
    And the EU citizenship after 5 years.


  • #844
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    recedite wrote: »
    And the EU citizenship after 5 years.

    Which I'm turn gives them access to lifelong social welfare and housing.

    Aren't us taxpayers so generous
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #845
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Gatling wrote: »
    Which I'm turn gives them access to lifelong social welfare and housing.

    Aren't us taxpayers so generous

    and then they get to bring their family over to re-unify. Western europe on top of its own pension crisis is the retirement destination of choice for many africans and arabs.


  • #846
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    Build that wall!Build that wall! Heaven forbid they should be allowed work the ****e jobs the Irish wont do, that is when they are not operating criminal empires from direct provision.


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  • #847
    enricoh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,973 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Mules wrote: »
    €38.80 on top of child benefit and the choice to earn more by working. Id imagine that the biggest draws are free accommodation, free healthcare and education.

    No one comes for the e38 in direct provision, its short term penance before they get the leave to remain n full welfare n accommodation.


  • #848
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    enricoh wrote: »
    No one comes for the e38 in direct provision, its short term penance before they get the leave to remain n full welfare n accommodation.

    Less than 5% of direct provision populations are long term inhabitants.


  • #849
    1641
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭1641


    recedite wrote: »
    Plenty of scams going on. They are not completely idle.


    I am not sure what those figures are meant to show. That migrants send remittances to their home countries? Always have and always will. Very many Irish families survived on remittances from emigrant members, especially in the 50s and 60s. Many emigrant remittances paid for the shoes for their younger sibs, kept them in schools to get a higher standard of education, built toilet facilities, and so on. Maybe your family benefitted at the time? If not you are possibility a minority, depending on what part of the country your family came from.

    As for the statistics, the second highest remittance figure reported went to the UK - are we complaining about immigration from there now? The third highest from Poland - legal EU immigrants, are we complaining about this too?

    Our economy has grown very substantially in recent years. We have essentially full employment. How could our economy have grown and those jobs have been filled without immigration? There are over 120,000 Poles living here. In the 2016 census there were over 100,000 UK nationals living here and over 320,000 all other EU nationals. How would our economy have coped or expanded without this pool of workers ? (I know some of the UK nationals will have retired here). And the CSO figures from June this year indicate that approx 61,000 were working here from outside the EU. Again, how would these jobs have been filled otherwise without immigration?

    And going back to your Sun link and the largest remittances going to Nigeria. There migrants seem to be very talented and very ambitious people, given how they have been getting on in the US. They are the highest achieving ethnic group there, outperforming all other immigrants and the US average:
    https://www.ozy.com/fast-forward/the-most-successful-ethnic-group-in-the-u-s-may-surprise-you/86885/


  • #850
    enricoh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,973 ✭✭✭enricoh


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    Less than 5% of direct provision populations are long term inhabitants.

    Short term pain for long term gain. 2 years now on average
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1014748/
    with all the media pressure the government speeded up giving people leave to remain. Word has filtered out across the globe about us suckers n numbers applying have soared. A stellar growth industry!


  • #851
    Ciaranis
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭Ciaranis


    Lefty Bicek wrote:
    From the Irish Times website, yesterday.


    You think a quote from an ambassador, whose job is to paint his country in the best possible light, is evidence?

    Also, there's no getting around the fact the joke itself still makes zero sense.


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