Budget 2020 new motor tax scale

FutureTeashock · 08-10-2019 3:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder how much they'll actually increase to at the pump.

I read it'll be an extra 2 cents per liter.

kona · 08-10-2019 3:03pm

Scoundrel wrote: »

Yeah I'd say that's with the election in mind

Wont make a blind bit of difference to whats going to happen to that crowd of lying snakes.

Time for the next bunch of lying snakes.

firstlight · 08-10-2019 4:35pm

Most of the country will be running on the green stuff
Sure will create a few more jobs for the boys dipping yokes

ELM327 · 08-10-2019 4:37pm

firstlight wrote: »

Most of the country will be running on the green stuff
Sure will create a few more jobs for the boys dipping yokes

Ah sure tis not the green you want

firstlight · 08-10-2019 4:39pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Ah sure tis not the green you want

Can't bait the owl jungle juice haiiiiiii

ELM327 · 08-10-2019 4:42pm

firstlight wrote: »

Can't bait the owl jungle juice haiiiiiii

Too expensive.
was over 1 euro a litre in the local place. Had to go to the heating oil

MTBD · 08-10-2019 5:07pm

Augeo wrote: »

I'd imagine the chap I was replying to doesn't have anything more exotic in mind tbh. He mentioned a Clio 182.

I mentioned a Clio 182 (I was actually thinking of the 197 but Renault's are not my forte) because it highlights the absurdity of the situation. A Clio 197 is a car for a person in their early 20s. Not in Ireland though.

Of the 4 cars you mentioned, only 1 is an enthusiast car and none are exotic in anyway. They are all 4 cylinder engines for a start which is always a bit crap.

Also, the concept behind what I'm saying is that in most countries if you do small mileage you can then have a nice car which has a bigger engine as you are not worried about the fuel costs of an inefficient engine. You buy a slightly older performance car as someone else has taken the depreciation hit which should allow you to afford the maintenance instead of the repayments of a new car. Obviously a higher performance car will be more expensive to maintain. In Ireland a huge portion of that money you could put into the running costs of an older performance vehicle are taken up by a cripplingly heavy tax. In other countries it is a lot more viable for people to buy a slightly older nice car. Eg. An E90 M3 or a C63. These cars are not viable for a huge portion of the population because 2350 tax is absurd.

How can you argue otherwise?

FutureTeashock · 08-10-2019 5:09pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

So 5 cents when you get to the pump then :pac:

Calm down dear, I'm just telling what I read. 2 cents per liter or 1.60€ extra to fill a tank.

Cyrus · 08-10-2019 5:11pm

MTBD wrote: »

I mentioned a Clio 182 (I was actually thinking of the 197 but Renault's are not my forte) because it highlights the absurdity of the situation. A Clio 197 is a car for a person in their early 20s. Not in Ireland though.

Of the 4 cars you mentioned, only 1 is an enthusiast car and none are exotic in anyway. They are all 4 cylinder engines for a start which is always a bit crap.

Also, the concept behind what I'm saying is that in most countries if you do small mileage you can then have a nice car which has a bigger engine as you are not worried about the fuel costs of an inefficient engine. You buy a slightly older performance car as someone else has taken the depreciation hit which should allow you to afford the maintenance instead of the repayments of a new car. Obviously a higher performance car will be more expensive to maintain. In Ireland a huge portion of that money you could put into the running costs of an older performance vehicle are taken up by a cripplingly heavy tax. In other countries it is a lot more viable for people to buy a slightly older nice car. Eg. An E90 M3 or a C63. These cars are not viable for a huge portion of the population because 2350 tax is absurd.

How can you argue otherwise?

i have owned m3s and paid the tax, and obviously id rather the tax was lower, but all it would do is push prices up.

also are you really advocating a tax policy that caters to a few enthusiasts looking to buy depreciated flagship performance models from premium marques.

not going to happen

DaveyDave · 08-10-2019 5:15pm

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Calm down dear, I'm just telling what I read. 2 cents per liter or 1.60€ extra to fill a tank.

I think he means some garages will take the piss and hike the prices as they usually do, the Texaco at the Foxhunter in Lucan is consistently the most expensive in the area and I've seen them raise prices a good few cent while others have stayed the same.

ELM327 · 08-10-2019 5:17pm

It's 2350 tax (or 1809 for older cars) and therefore the prices are lower
If you made it 1200 to tax, you'd see an uptick in prices of >3.0 cars

FutureTeashock · 08-10-2019 5:17pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

I think he means some garages will take the piss and hike the prices as they usually do, the Texaco at the Foxhunter in Lucan is consistently the most expensive in the area and I've seen them raise prices a good few cent while others have stayed the same.

That makes sense. I'm so used to snarky, condescending replies on boards I misread the intent.

marcos_94 · 08-10-2019 5:19pm

MTBD wrote: »

I mentioned a Clio 182 (I was actually thinking of the 197 but Renault's are not my forte) because it highlights the absurdity of the situation. A Clio 197 is a car for a person in their early 20s. Not in Ireland though.

Of the 4 cars you mentioned, only 1 is an enthusiast car and none are exotic in anyway. They are all 4 cylinder engines for a start which is always a bit crap.

Also, the concept behind what I'm saying is that in most countries if you do small mileage you can then have a nice car which has a bigger engine as you are not worried about the fuel costs of an inefficient engine. You buy a slightly older performance car as someone else has taken the depreciation hit which should allow you to afford the maintenance instead of the repayments of a new car. Obviously a higher performance car will be more expensive to maintain. In Ireland a huge portion of that money you could put into the running costs of an older performance vehicle are taken up by a cripplingly heavy tax. In other countries it is a lot more viable for people to buy a slightly older nice car. Eg. An E90 M3 or a C63. These cars are not viable for a huge portion of the population because 2350 tax is absurd.

How can you argue otherwise?

Iv got a BMW 325i (3L straight 6 engine) which is 570 per year tax, and the 330i is 750 per year to tax. Can be gotten in coupe and convertible. Just one example of a nice car with bigger engine.

If you include diesel, can get a nice 3L twin turbo BMW 335d which has 750 tax per year. Just some examples of cars I know of

PaulRyan97 · 08-10-2019 5:26pm

Just to confirm, the tax will not be based on WLTP figures? Still the old NEDC values?

Sexual Chocolate · 08-10-2019 5:58pm

marcos_94 wrote: »

Iv got a BMW 325i (3L straight 6 engine) which is 570 per year tax, and the 330i is 750 per year to tax. Can be gotten in coupe and convertible. Just one example of a nice car with bigger engine.

If you include diesel, can get a nice 3L twin turbo BMW 335d which has 750 tax per year. Just some examples of cars I know of

Actually surprised there's not more post 08 6 pot petrol bmw's around since there not that bad on tax.

Smokie399 · 08-10-2019 6:19pm

Anybody have a proper break down on what the changes to VRT will mean for importing a car from the UK. Will the new tax based on NOx emissions be replacing the current vrt system or will the nox tax be added to the OMSP of the vehicle ?

martyc5674 · 08-10-2019 6:42pm

galwaytt wrote: »

the only person talking that is you actually.

My 2003 car is €1809 p.a. I did 1,500kms in it. It is, to all intents & purposes, unsaleable.

your comment of 'being able to afford it' is pure ignorance.

Ah now... if you can justify that for such little mileage then you “can afford it” as in that’s a choice you made, i understand you might be attached to the car/prefer it to something post 08, but anyone paying that in tax for that little mileage is not struggling. That 1800 quid would tax & insure my car and leave 800 for fuel which would cover nearly 6 months for me.
The system is flawed for sure, but it doesn’t change the fact that we as a nation need to change habits. The amount of people driving single occupancy cars stuck in traffic every morning is ludicrous, a lot of them are using their cars as umbrellas to go right into the city centre.

zurbfoundation · 08-10-2019 7:36pm

mgn wrote: »

Take for example an 07 Golf tdi tax €673 same car on an 08 plate €280, cant see why a person has to pay more because the drive an identical car that just happens to be a year older. It's a stupid system.

Neither cars tax rate has ever changed much however. Either new or used you knew the tax rate at time of purchase. Plus the value of the car differs. 07 pretty much saleproof. 08 will fetch a few extra bob cos of de chape tax

mgn · 08-10-2019 7:42pm

zurbfoundation wrote: »

Neither cars tax rate has ever changed much however. Either new or used you knew the tax rate at time of purchase. Plus the value of the car differs. 07 pretty much saleproof. 08 will fetch a few extra bob cos of de chape tax

My point is its the same car, why should it be taxed differently because of a number plate.

NIMAN · 08-10-2019 7:47pm

No change in tax bands today?

mgn · 08-10-2019 8:01pm

thehttps://www.irishtimes.com/business/budget/budget-2020-new-emissions-tax-on-new-cars-and-used-imports-

astrofool · 08-10-2019 8:05pm

Need to see details on changes due to WLTP2, the Nox tax is just replacing the 1% levy.

NIMAN · 08-10-2019 8:08pm

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but is that the annual motor tax charge?

Or a charge included in the price of a new car, like vrt?

So for example many 1.6 diesels here are e190 per year. What is that changing to, or is it changing at all?

MTBD · 08-10-2019 8:10pm

Cyrus wrote: »

i have owned m3s and paid the tax, and obviously id rather the tax was lower, but all it would do is push prices up.

also are you really advocating a tax policy that caters to a few enthusiasts looking to buy depreciated flagship performance models from premium marques.

not going to happen

Are M3s considerably cheaper here than in the UK? Doubtful, considering almost all of the cars that have arrived here are pre 08 UK imports. Anyway, where are all these super cheap post 08 performance cars and luxury cars? All I can find registered after 2008 are diesels.

Anyway, I'm simply arguing that the tax bands should be equitable. Just throwing out a couple of random cars here. Over 10 years a car like a Subaru WRX would pay €23500 in motor tax to be driven. A similarly expensive BMW 320d would pay €1900. Are you telling me that makes even a remote bit of sense or that the driver of the Subaru somehow deserves to get shafted to the tune of €22k over 10 years? Even from an environmental pov it is idiotic. A 320d after 10 years will likely have 200,000+ miles on it and therefore have emitted even more co2 than a WRX probably wouldn't even reach 100,000. There has clearly been no thought out into the current system at all. It's punitive.

mgn · 08-10-2019 8:14pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but is that the annual motor tax charge?

Or a charge included in the price of a new car, like vrt?

So for example many 1.6 diesels here are e190 per year. What is that changing to, or is it changing at all?

No change to the tax bands today.
The new nox charges are going on new and imported cars from Jan 1st.

LillySV · 08-10-2019 8:17pm

Lads I don’t understand what’s goin on with the vrt change? Say if I wanted to import a 2015 BMW X5 3 litre diesel an I worse off for vrt after Jan ? What if it’s a 2015 BMW X5 hybrid? When they are quoting figures for next emissions vrt charges... are they charges in addition to charge there already?

MTBD · 08-10-2019 8:24pm

marcos_94 wrote: »

Iv got a BMW 325i (3L straight 6 engine) which is 570 per year tax, and the 330i is 750 per year to tax. Can be gotten in coupe and convertible. Just one example of a nice car with bigger engine.

If you include diesel, can get a nice 3L twin turbo BMW 335d which has 750 tax per year. Just some examples of cars I know of

Name some more cars that are not BMW's. A 3L BMW isn't considered anything special in most countries. It's just the way most of them are. For every 6 cylinder BMW that isn't in the highest two tax bands I can name about 10 cars from other manufacturers that are in the top two bands. Go on to carzone and filter cars by 2008-2015, select petrol, then select engine size over 2.5l and you will find 82 cars listed. Over half of them are for sale for over €40,000 and a good share of them are much closer to €100k.

mgn · 08-10-2019 10:13pm

LillySV wrote: »

Lads I don’t understand what’s goin on with the vrt change? Say if I wanted to import a 2015 BMW X5 3 litre diesel an I worse off for vrt after Jan ? What if it’s a 2015 BMW X5 hybrid? When they are quoting figures for next emissions vrt charges... are they charges in addition to charge there already?

Find out NOx emissions first.

First 60mg €5 per mg.
Over 60 mg to 80 mg €15 per mg.
Over 81 mg €25 per mg.

Check what the VRT is now minus 1% of the omsp.
Add new NOx tax to that so give you an idea.

mgn · 08-10-2019 10:16pm

Smokie399 wrote: »

Anybody have a proper break down on what the changes to VRT will mean for importing a car from the UK. Will the new tax based on NOx emissions be replacing the current vrt system or will the nox tax be added to the OMSP of the vehicle ?

The NOx tax is in addition to the VRT.

Cyrus · 08-10-2019 10:17pm

MTBD wrote: »

Are M3s considerably cheaper here than in the UK? Doubtful, considering almost all of the cars that have arrived here are pre 08 UK imports. Anyway, where are all these super cheap post 08 performance cars and luxury cars? All I can find registered after 2008 are diesels.

Anyway, I'm simply arguing that the tax bands should be equitable. Just throwing out a couple of random cars here. Over 10 years a car like a Subaru WRX would pay €23500 in motor tax to be driven. A similarly expensive BMW 320d would pay €1900. Are you telling me that makes even a remote bit of sense or that the driver of the Subaru somehow deserves to get shafted to the tune of €22k over 10 years? Even from an environmental pov it is idiotic. A 320d after 10 years will likely have 200,000+ miles on it and therefore have emitted even more co2 than a WRX probably wouldn't even reach 100,000. There has clearly been no thought out into the current system at all. It's punitive.

I agree but it’ll never happen

uck51js9zml2yt · 08-10-2019 10:41pm

I can live with the motor changes in the budget. Have 2 diesels and was dreading a clamp down on them.

A euro per fill is manageable. 4 euro a month extra on average on our household fuel bill.

FutureTeashock · 08-10-2019 10:44pm

Nataly Vast Bucket wrote: »

I can live with the motor changes in the budget. Have 2 diesels and was dreading a clamp down on them.

A euro per fill is manageable. 4 euro a month extra on average on our household fuel bill.

What about the knock on effect across the whole economy?

Surely all goods and services will increase substantially because diesel is so integral to production and transport? Don't be fooled!

Charles Babbage · 08-10-2019 10:46pm

FutureTeashock wrote: »

What about the knock on effect across the whole economy?

Surely all goods and services will increase substantially because diesel is so integral to production and transport? Don't be fooled!

Diesel is only one component of cost, and a Euro a fill is only 1-2%, so I wouldn't exaggerate too much.

Harry Palmr · 08-10-2019 10:47pm

A change in the value of the currency v the dollar would have a far greater effect than a couple of cents on a litre.

elperello · 08-10-2019 10:48pm

FutureTeashock wrote: »

What about the knock on effect across the whole economy?

Surely all goods and services will increase substantially because diesel is so integral to production and transport? Don't be fooled!

Plus this is to continue incrementally up to 2030.
It will be a bit like the "boiling a frog" effect.
If we don't change we will all end up in hot water.

FutureTeashock · 08-10-2019 10:49pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Diesel is only one component of cost, and a Euro a fill is only 1-2%, so I wouldn't exaggerate too much.

Maybe not this year, but the UN plan is to have huge yearly increases. It will eventually destroy the economy imo.

Harry Palmr · 08-10-2019 10:50pm

Carbon is going to be taxed incrementally until it's no longer a significant part of the fuel mix.

That's the future, suck it up.

Micky 32 · 08-10-2019 10:50pm

Nataly Vast Bucket wrote: »

I can live with the motor changes in the budget. Have 2 diesels and was dreading a clamp down on them.

A euro per fill is manageable. 4 euro a month extra on average on our household fuel bill.

So you don't mind Mr Donohoe sticking his hand in your pocket every month to grab 4 euro you legitamely earned saying " I'll have that", next year he'll do the same year after year.

FutureTeashock · 08-10-2019 10:51pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Carbon is going to be taxed incrementally until it's no longer a significant part of the fuel mix.

That's the future, suck it up.

No, I will fight against this suicide, thank you very much.

galwaytt · 08-10-2019 10:53pm

ELM327 wrote: »

It's 2350 tax (or 1809 for older cars) and therefore the prices are lower
If you made it 1200 to tax, you'd see an uptick in prices of >3.0 cars

Yes but there's no money in that. Transfers of ownership raises no revenue. So "values" are irrelevant.

Ownership, or to be more accurate, use, does. If you made the 1809/2350 cars 1200 you'd see a big uptake of cars in use, aka revenue.

08-10-2019 11:10pm

galwaytt wrote: »

.......
Ownership, or to be more accurate, use, does. If you made the 1809/2350 cars 1200 you'd see a big uptake of cars in use, aka revenue.

I'm sure the policy makers would point out they don't want a big uptake in use of the cars you refer to.

KCross · 08-10-2019 11:28pm

FutureTeashock wrote: »

What about the knock on effect across the whole economy?

Surely all goods and services will increase substantially because diesel is so integral to production and transport? Don't be fooled!

The budget increased the diesel rebate scheme so it should limit whole economy being affected.

Idbatterim · 08-10-2019 11:33pm

Micky 32 wrote: »

So you don't mind Mr Donohoe sticking his hand in your pocket every month to grab 4 euro you legitamely earned saying " I'll have that", next year he'll do the same year after year.

Laughable. This issue is harped on ability relentlessly! You want to know an actual scandal, a marginal tax rate of fifty percent over the pittance of e35,000!

MTBD · 08-10-2019 11:44pm

Augeo wrote: »

I'm sure the policy makers would point out they don't want a big uptake in use of the cars you refer to.

Yeah, great. The point I, and pretty much everyone else is making, is that the policy was flawed from the very beginning and not based upon equity or facts. It was completely ham fisted when it was introduced and it has since been proven to have been shaped by the lies told by German car manufacturers. The co2 targets were never realistic and we know that now. It's also pretty ridiculous to make a policy where you hit about 1% of car owners incredibly hard and then leave the rest alone. There are so few large engined cars sold here that it was only ever a gesture to make sure people don't get above their station and buy something nice. Can't be having that now.

There is no data to suggest that it has had any of its original intended benefits. It's been an unmitigated disaster of a policy and has only lead to an increase in air pollution with all the diesels it put on the road.

drunkmonkey · 08-10-2019 11:53pm

The new tax will have little to no effect on new diesel sales. All new Mercedes diesels avoid it and a good few BMW's. You could go as far as saying it's tougher on petrol than diesel cars.

Idbatterim · 09-10-2019 12:04am

The entire taxation around diesel has been a joke. They’ve benefited from years of stupidly cheap tax etc. now 2 they have to lay 2c a litre extra. Funny the obsession with fuel cost and tax. Depreciation doesn’t register with most Irish motorists...

ninty9er · 09-10-2019 12:07am

LillySV wrote: »

Lads I don’t understand what’s goin on with the vrt change? Say if I wanted to import a 2015 BMW X5 3 litre diesel an I worse off for vrt after Jan ? What if it’s a 2015 BMW X5 hybrid? When they are quoting figures for next emissions vrt charges... are they charges in addition to charge there already?

BMW were fairly on the ball in being ahead of the Euro6 curve, so the surcharge on a 2015 3l X5 xDrive 30d is approx €300 from Jan 1st, so it may actually be cheaper to wait until January in that particular instance,

HOWEVER, here's where it gets complicated. If you were looking at a 2015 Ford Kuga 2l, you would need to know whether it is a Duratorq TDCI 140 PS or a TDCI 150 PS, as one has a Euro5 engine which will attract a Nox levy of €3k give or take and the other has a Euro6 engine which will have a levy of less than €300.

That would be a VERY expensive mistake to make.

LillySV · 09-10-2019 12:40am

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Carbon is going to be taxed incrementally until it's no longer a significant part of the fuel mix.

That's the future, suck it up.

They taxing the boys raring cattle ...??? No! way more harmful gasses there... But that would ruin their election chances...and they know the farmers all band together for protest any chance they get

09-10-2019 1:14am

LillySV wrote: »

They taxing the boys raring cattle ...??? No! way more harmful gasses there... But that would ruin their election chances...and they know the farmers all band together for protest any chance they get

Nonsense of the highest order. It’s a total fallacy that cattle, cows etc are contributing to emissions, farms are neutral at worst if not in most cases creating a sink to emissions and positively impacting the environment.

Micky 32 · 09-10-2019 2:54am

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Carbon is going to be taxed incrementally until it's no longer a significant part of the fuel mix.

That's the future, suck it up.

Suck it up? Watching too many USA movies there?:rolleyes:

Anyway i was doing a bit of sums. It's not all doom and gloom with the carbon taxes regarding transport anyhow, i think maybe the government are making ye tree huggers think they are really doing something when in reality it's not really the case....cute feckers

I own a 300bhp diesel car that i use for my work. With my driving style i probably average 40mpg. I do 50,000km a year which is quite substantial, that only equates 70 euro for the year for the extra 2c a litre. Not many people do 50k a year..

Fast forward 10 years to 2030 when it's 80 euro per tonne. That will add circa 20c a litre. For me thats circa extra 700 euro for the year, 2 euro a day extra and in my business i could find 2 euro extra a day very easily. Not to mention inflation in the next 10 years that will make that 700 euro not as bad.

I think maybe we are stressing out too much about the carbon tax..sorry tree huggers this won't have much of an effect over the next 10 years on my driving habits..It clearly is a cash grab while keeping the doomsday people happy.

Budget 2020 new motor tax scale

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