Budget 2020 new motor tax scale

Shefwedfan

beggars_bush wrote: »

I'm all for carbon taxes, but let's do it in a way that motorists can plan for the next 5 years.
Moderate increase every year and people can save their deposits for EV cars and the motoring industry know to wind down selling diesel cars
And hybrid should be a viable alternative

I actually saw a queue of EVs at a charging point yesterday on the way from the west to Dublin

Every town along a major road will need a bank of 10+ charging points in order to meet demand

The government announced the electric cars and networking in 2012.....so they have given 8 years for people to move.....unfortunately the majority didn't bother.....during those 8 years second hand electric car could be got for cheap compared to the prices now.....

NaFirinne

Does any ever feel like we just need to scrap All Taxes, Laws, Government and start again from the Drawing board.

Shefwedfan

NaFirinne wrote: »

Does any ever feel like we just need to scrap All Taxes, Laws, Government and start again from the Drawing board.

The problem is people/world changes...people have different requirements



So scrap and start again, and some people would complain. Then in 5 years time it would be outdated and we would be back to square one


You give people free stuff and they will complain because they didntget enought free stuff.....

Sam Russell

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The government announced the electric cars and networking in 2012.....so they have given 8 years for people to move.....unfortunately the majority didn't bother.....during those 8 years second hand electric car could be got for cheap compared to the prices now.....

Well, the motor manufacturers are hardly producing relevant vehicles.

There is:

1. Tesla - very high spec and price to match and only available in Ireland recently.

2. Nissan Leaf - been on the market since 2011. A basic car, but not cheap even with the incentives.

3. The VW eGolf. Horrendous price, for what - a basic Golf.

4. The Hyundai and Kia electric cars - again horrendous prices for basic cars.

VW have announce the ID electric range due next year - but no prices or real delivery dates.

So you want a plug in electric vehicle, what do you buy? The motor manufacturers do not have product for sale.

Ger Roe

beggars_bush wrote: »

And still noboby has thought of just having a flat rate of taxing cars based on engine size/CO2 and then apply carbon tax to the fuel
As in, the more you drive the more you pay model

They have thought of it, but their motivation is to screw more money from you, not introduce a fairer (for you) but less lucrative (for them) system. Under the present model they can rip you off on two fronts at the same time. They won't give that golden goose option up easily.

Like a lot of our pretend environmental focus policies, they don't want to actually do things properly, they just want to keep charging people at the bottom of the chain instead of forcing those at the top to make the changes that need to be made.

They have declared a climate emergency (because of their own scandalous inaction over many years) and they now have to be seen to be doing something, but in the end they have to keep this place as 'the best little country to do business in.' (Ref Enda Kenny).

How about changing the focus to make it the best little country to live in?

Shefwedfan

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, the motor manufacturers are hardly producing relevant vehicles.

There is:

1. Tesla - very high spec and price to match and only available in Ireland recently.

2. Nissan Leaf - been on the market since 2011. A basic car, but not cheap even with the incentives.

3. The VW eGolf. Horrendous price, for what - a basic Golf.

4. The Hyundai and Kia electric cars - again horrendous prices for basic cars.

VW have announce the ID electric range due next year - but no prices or real delivery dates.

So you want a plug in electric vehicle, what do you buy? The motor manufacturers do not have product for sale.

You need to compare like for like. The electric cars are high spec, so eGolf for instance you need to compare to a top of the line automatic Golf and then it isn't actually that much more expensive.

Compare to a base manual and yes it is expensive

Sam Russell

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You need to compare like for like. The electric cars are high spec, so eGolf for instance you need to compare to a top of the line automatic Golf and then it isn't actually that much more expensive.

Compare to a base manual and yes it is expensive

That might be true, but if I am looking for a car, I do not want to only have the high cost one - it is not a choice.

Shefwedfan

Sam Russell wrote: »

That might be true, but if I am looking for a car, I do not want to only have the high cost one - it is not a choice.

It depends on up front and TCO.....


A current eGolf with 0% PCP and the cost saving on fuel/service/tax/tolls compared to a combustion engine will work out a lot lot cheaper....

Sam Russell

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It depends on up front and TCO.....


A current eGolf with 0% PCP and the cost saving on fuel/service/tax/tolls compared to a combustion engine will work out a lot lot cheaper....

PCP is not for me. I will wait for the ID cars to come on stream - which is 2022 if I am being realistic. 2020 first sold at a premium with poor spec as VW does with every new model. 2022 will see their first attempt to get bums behind the wheel.

Shefwedfan

Sam Russell wrote: »

PCP is not for me. I will wait for the ID cars to come on stream - which is 2022 if I am being realistic. 2020 first sold at a premium with poor spec as VW does with every new model. 2022 will see their first attempt to get bums behind the wheel.

End of 2020 and start of 2021 they will need to have large sales after the huge investment

The initial model is only for pre-release and will be far from poor spec

Sam Russell

Shefwedfan wrote: »

End of 2020 and start of 2021 they will need to have large sales after the huge investment

The initial model is only for pre-release and will be far from poor spec

But not low priced - in fact not priced. By 2022, they will be priced for value. They need to sell a lot - an enormous number not just to recoup their investment but to meet their CO2 targets. By 2025, they will need to be a major supplier of electric vehicles - probably supplying other marques with chassis and components. Already they are going to be supplying the Transit chassis.

Interesting times ahead.

Shefwedfan

Sam Russell wrote: »

But not low priced - in fact not priced. By 2022, they will be priced for value. They need to sell a lot - an enormous number not just to recoup their investment but to meet their CO2 targets. By 2025, they will need to be a major supplier of electric vehicles - probably supplying other marques with chassis and components. Already they are going to be supplying the Transit chassis.

Interesting times ahead.

Hard to know yet, probably mid 30's for the ID 1st


VW group will flood market, Skoda/Audi/VW and Seat all have models comign out. You can preorder the entry eUp now and Skoda version is coming out as well

The Seat version of ID will be out soon after the ID...etc etc.....really I am waiting for the Buzz but I would expect 2023 before I can get that

RedorDead

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/vw-welcomes-germanys-60b-plan-meet-co2-targets

Id say you could copy and paste for Ireland for this time 2 weeks as its bound to be something similar. Hit the normal motorist to support a sleuth of EVs.

Micky 32

RedorDead wrote: »

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/vw-welcomes-germanys-60b-plan-meet-co2-targets

Id say you could copy and paste for Ireland for this time 2 weeks as its bound to be something similar. Hit the normal motorist to support a sleuth of EVs.

Did you see what VW are charging for their 190 km range Golf? 50k!

krissovo

Micky 32 wrote: »

Did you see what VW are charging for their 190 km range Golf? 50k!

More like 350km, unless you are doing 150kmph with the id3. The e-golf has just had the price reduced.

Micky 32

krissovo wrote: »

More like 350km, unless you are doing 150kmph with the id3. The e-golf has just had the price reduced.

Not a chance unless you're coasting down a hill all day with everything switched off.

Gumbo

Micky 32 wrote: »

Not a chance unless you're coasting down a hill all day with everything switched off.

You do realize most systems run off the 12V battery, lights, radio, heated seats etc
The only thing that runs from the HV Battery and therefore reducing range is the heater and AC.

Micky 32

kceire wrote: »

You do realize most systems run off the 12V battery, lights, radio, heated seats etc
The only thing that runs from the HV Battery and therefore reducing range is the heater and AC.

It doesn't change the fact of the short range, go check out the reviews.

_Brian

carsfan2 wrote: »

I can’t see the SIMI being at all happy with these proposals. New car sales are down already. Lots of garages are struggling and this will only make new cars more expensive and buyers uncertain.
I’d say a lot of lobbying will go on.

We need to seriously reduce buying new cars and learn to extend the life of existing cars and put up with having an older number plate.

It’s much more environmentally friendly to use and existing car than scrap it and buy a shiny new one. .

un5byh7sqpd2x0

_Brian wrote: »

We need to seriously reduce buying new cars and learn to extend the life of existing cars and put up with having an older number plate.

It’s much more environmentally friendly to use and existing car than scrap it and buy a shiny new one. .

Are you proposing that old cars be re-engined with Euro 6 complaint engines?

Andrewf20

As depressing as it sounds, we in effect need to become poorer so that we have less money to consume things and higher taxation is one way of making that happen.

Why stitch up old jeans when you can afford new ones etc...

Eric Cartman

well government, i guess you win this one, time for me to hang up my filthy diesel 4x4 and go to a more environmentally friendly fuel https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201908070871730?fuel-type=Petrol&colour=Black&radius=1500&year-from=2011&advertising-location=at_cars&sort=price-asc&postcode=se10ab&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&minimum-badge-engine-size=4.0&make=LAND%20ROVER&page=3

Schorpio

Andrewf20 wrote: »

As depressing as it sounds, we in effect need to become poorer so that we have less money to consume things and higher taxation is one way of making that happen.

Why stitch up old jeans when you can afford new ones etc...

I think that's completely the wrong mindset. The key isn't taxation, it's incentivisation.

Don't tax us to make us less able to afford new cars, incentivise us to keep our old ones. Tax new cars more, and our existing ones less.

The key should be to reward people for doing the right thing, not constantly punish them in doing what you want them to do.

However, that wouldn't make the Government any more money. Something something.....getting up early in the morning.

Andrewf20

Schorpio wrote: »

I think that's completely the wrong mindset. The key isn't taxation, it's incentivisation.

Don't tax us to make us less able to afford new cars, incentivise us to keep our old ones. Tax new cars more, and our existing ones less.

The key should be to reward people for doing the right thing, not constantly punish them in doing what you want them to do.

However, that wouldn't make the Government any more money. Something something.....getting up early in the morning.

I'm an advocate of old cars and I have a car on a classic policy and so I agree with your sentiment. It's especially true in light of the sf6 emissions from electricity generation that's getting very little press attention. It raises an eyebrow on how 'green' electric cars really are.

However our habits in relation to car usage see that we are more likely to take the car to the shops a kilometre away instead of walk because we can afford it. We have become a very disposable society because we are used to the convenience of it. I drive to work, but if I really needed to I could cycle. I'm just too darned selfish and lazy to deal with the hassle.

From reading up on climate change, it appears that every avenue needs to be explored to reduce global warming including our own habits. If we don't change them, it appears they will have to be forced upon us through taxation etc. The less money we have, the less likely we are to dispose of old things or to drive more miles etc.

martyc5674

Andrewf20 wrote: »

I'm an advocate of old cars and I have a car on a classic policy and so I agree with your sentiment. It's especially true in light of the sf6 emissions from electricity generation that's getting very little press attention. It raises an eyebrow on how 'green' electric cars really are.

However our habits in relation to car usage see that we are more likely to take the car to the shops a kilometre away instead of walk because we can afford it. We have become a very disposable society because we are used to the convenience of it. I drive to work, but if I really needed to I could cycle. I'm just too darned selfish and lazy to deal with the hassle.

From reading up on climate change, it appears that every avenue needs to be explored to reduce global warming including our own habits. If we don't change them, it appears they will have to be forced upon us through taxation etc. The less money we have, the less likely we are to dispose of old things or to drive more miles etc.

This...
We don’t need to change our cars to electric, we need to get rid of them.
We need better public transport and cycling/walking infrastructure. It’s a modal shift we need. Electric will solve nothing, it will only kick the can down the road, whilst keeping the car industries propped up.
Marty.

Gumbo

Micky 32 wrote: »

It doesn't change the fact of the short range, go check out the reviews.

No need to check out reviews. I’ve been driving EV’s since 2012 alongside my S3, 535d
And various other ICE cars.

Micky 32

kceire wrote: »

No need to check out reviews. I’ve been driving EV’s since 2012 alongside my S3, 535d
And various other ICE cars.

Ah you have one of those E golfs? I'm assuming you have, so what range are you genuinly getting out of it?

Eric Cartman

martyc5674 wrote: »

This...
We don’t need to change our cars to electric, we need to get rid of them.
We need better public transport and cycling/walking infrastructure. It’s a modal shift we need. Electric will solve nothing, it will only kick the can down the road, whilst keeping the car industries propped up.
Marty.

I agree that other people should do that to free up the roads for me , thus having my ICE cars on the road less, thus reducing emissions. Fantastic plan.

mgn

martyc5674 wrote: »

This...
We don’t need to change our cars to electric, we need to get rid of them.
We need better public transport and cycling/walking infrastructure. It’s a modal shift we need. Electric will solve nothing, it will only kick the can down the road, whilst keeping the car industries propped up.
Marty.

Bet you live in a city too.

Micky 32

martyc5674 wrote: »

This...
We don’t need to change our cars to electric, we need to get rid of them.
We need better public transport and cycling/walking infrastructure. It’s a modal shift we need. Electric will solve nothing, it will only kick the can down the road, whilst keeping the car industries propped up.
Marty.

So you're on for reducing peoples freedom and independence?