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Budget 2020 new motor tax scale

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24567…15

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    #32
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    You won't because pre-08 barges already have ridiculous tax rates, plus the insurers don't want to know (or try to price them out of the market) once they pass 10/11 years old.

    They won't be coming back, except for those who could probably just absorb these mooted increases anyway.

    1800 is not 2350 or 2500 though


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    #33
    tanko
    Registered Users Posts: 9,206 ✭✭✭tanko


    What would this mean for my 2001 diesel Passat??
    I'm hoping to get another 20 years out of it.


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    #34
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,154 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Interesting article, perhaps we should reduce the motor tax on the older cars to keep them running and save CO2 emissions...
    Interestingly, the input-outpout analysis suggests that the gas and electricity used by the auto industry itself, including all the component manufacturers as well as the assembly plant, accounts for less than 12% of the total. The rest is spread across everything from metal extraction (33%), rubber manufacture (3%) and the manufacture of tools and machines (5%) through to business travel and stationary for car company employees.

    The upshot is that – despite common claims to contrary – the embodied emissions of a car typically rival the exhaust pipe emissions over its entire lifetime. Indeed, for each mile driven, the emissions from the manufacture of a top-of-the-range Land Rover Discovery that ends up being scrapped after 100,000 miles may be as much as four times higher than the tailpipe emissions of a Citroen C1.

    With this in mind, unless you do very high mileage or have a real gas-guzzler, it generally makes sense to keep your old car for as long as it is reliable – and to look after it carefully to extend its life as long as possible. If you make a car last to 200,000 miles rather than 100,000, then the emissions for each mile the car does in its lifetime may drop by as much as 50%, as a result of getting more distance out of the initial manufacturing emissions.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/2010/sep/23/carbon-footprint-new-car


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    #35
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,475 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    beggars_bush wrote: »
    And still noboby has thought of just having a flat rate of taxing cars based on engine size/CO2 and then apply carbon tax to the fuel
    As in, the more you drive the more you pay model

    No.
    That just punishes people who live in rural areas more than those in urban areas but the urban dwellers get public transport too.


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    #36
    Phileas Frog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 946 ✭✭✭Phileas Frog


    I notice some bands are decreasing in VRT rates


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    #37
    sligo_dave
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭sligo_dave


    Phileas Frog wrote: »
    I notice some bands are decreasing in VRT rates

    Rightly so, but to encourage an actual change in new car sales there should be a retention of the current vrt rebates/incentives for bev and phev new car sales for a fixed timescale, say 2 years, to retain a low purchase price for cars which are in the lowest bands. To achieve change in the future, the incentives need to be there to encourage sufficient uptake so the second hand market can have better availability in the coming years.
    With improving efficiencies of scale to be obtained from ev production along with improvements in technology and more competition in the ev sector, this should lead to reduced purchase prices in time when the incentives end. It is a kickstart of the change if targets for 2030 are to be within a donkeys roar of being met.


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    #38
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Whatever about the VRT rates the carbon tax is a major kick in the hole for commuters, I'd love to be able to leave the car at home and use public transport but it's not possible because the public transport isn't there, adding ~20c is another tenner a week that I'll no choice but to give over


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    #39
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,386 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    william o t wrote: »
    Good god almighty. Where does it end it this country with taxation...water, property, income, road, 50% on fuel etc etc etc.
    The sooner some form of disruptive technology ie Volvo's car subscription service or similar becomes common place the better. Car ownership is becoming an unaffordable luxury in Ireland. :(

    It really is. VRT is daylight robbery.
    Ive only heard a little about the Volvo subs scheme in the US - you pay a monthly subscription and get into a new car service etc all in. Would the VRT still be built into the price though?


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    #40
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,184 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    terrydel wrote: »
    They are kite flying thru what has practically become the governments in-house newspaper, the irish times.

    They are official papers issued by the Dept of Finance!


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    #41
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    Marcusm wrote: »
    They are official papers issued by the Dept of Finance!

    +1, the direct source is the Department of Finance Tax Strategy Group 04/19 Climate Action and Tax paper, see page 32 onwards.


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    #42
    Phileas Frog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 946 ✭✭✭Phileas Frog


    Marcusm wrote: »
    They are official papers issued by the Dept of Finance!

    It's still kite flying, seeing how the _proposals_ are received.


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    #43
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,343 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    I'm all for carbon taxes, but let's do it in a way that motorists can plan for the next 5 years.
    Moderate increase every year and people can save their deposits for EV cars and the motoring industry know to wind down selling diesel cars
    And hybrid should be a viable alternative

    I actually saw a queue of EVs at a charging point yesterday on the way from the west to Dublin

    Every town along a major road will need a bank of 10+ charging points in order to meet demand


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    #44
    R.O.R
    Registered Users Posts: 12,672 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    Phileas Frog wrote: »
    I notice some bands are decreasing in VRT rates

    That's because Co2 emissions are increasing.

    Had the details on a 5 Series to hand. Currently, the 520d SE has Co2 emissions of 117g, so falls in to the 17% VRT Bracket. The 1% Diesel Levy takes it to 18% this year.

    Under WLTP2 the Co2 emissions go to 141g and based on the table linked in the OP, that would fall under the 18% VRT category, so no change there.

    Biggest losers are going to be SUV's - some huge increases in Co2 emissions on those, which aren't going to be offset by the bands changing.


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    #45
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,268 ✭✭✭jmreire


    beggars_bush wrote: »
    And still noboby has thought of just having a flat rate of taxing cars based on engine size/CO2 and then apply carbon tax to the fuel
    As in, the more you drive the more you pay model
    That would make sense, but no, because this way, they have it both ways......both on the tax AND the fuel.


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    #46
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    road_high wrote: »
    The so called environmental case for hybrids is weak enough in reality vs a modern diesel still.

    Indeed, but you're comparing the wrong thing. We can assume diesel is effectively dead for he most part, esp low-milers and urban driving.

    So, the real comparison is Hybrid vs EV. And, because EV isn't going to work for a huge cohort of this country due to range & charging issues, not to mention price, especially as they become more common, then the pulling the rug from under them makes no sense at all.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #47
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    Remember we sent a clear message to the government in May #GreenWave.

    A few Mickey Mouse Councillors and 2 MEPs.Wait and see what the will get in the next election.Hopefully the next election will be after the budget and when people see how much this greenwave is going to cost them it will be more like a little ripple.


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    #48
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    beggars_bush wrote: »
    I'm all for carbon taxes, but let's do it in a way that motorists can plan for the next 5 years.
    Moderate increase every year and people can save their deposits for EV cars and the motoring industry know to wind down selling diesel cars
    And hybrid should be a viable alternative

    I actually saw a queue of EVs at a charging point yesterday on the way from the west to Dublin

    Every town along a major road will need a bank of 10+ charging points in order to meet demand

    I bet you live in a city.


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    #49
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,386 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    mgn wrote: »
    A few Mickey Mouse Councillors and 2 MEPs.Wait and see what the will get in the next election.Hopefully the next election will be after the budget and when see how much this greenwave is going to cost them it will be more like a little ripple.

    The green wave is grand in theory and makes the middle classes feel all warm fussy inside and morally superior- but wait until the new taxes hit home and the dopey cnuts will have to give up their new Tucsons
    That’s all these rubbish ever was- a revenue generating exercise


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    #50
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    road_high wrote: »
    It really is. VRT is daylight robbery.
    Ive only heard a little about the Volvo subs scheme in the US - you pay a monthly subscription and get into a new car service etc all in. Would the VRT still be built into the price though?

    As its a registration tax I'd assume it would have to be.


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    #51
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    Phileas Frog wrote: »
    It's still kite flying, seeing how the _proposals_ are received.

    Exactly, and they have the IT in their back pocket these days so thats their medium of choice.


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    #52
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,386 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Phileas Frog wrote: »
    It's still kite flying, seeing how the _proposals_ are received.

    Very badly I would hope and the dopes “might” listen. You can’t keep lumping taxes upon taxes and expect revenue to increase. A point cones when it’s just too much and we are well at that tipping point now


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    #53
    lalababa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭lalababa


    Had major difficulty understanding the IT article. Seem hard to defrienciate between VRT changes and motor tax changes.
    What exactly are they kite flying? Thanks.


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    #54
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,114 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    The world's most expensive children's hospital, National Broadband program, etc all need to be paid for. We also have to keep shoveling money into that bottomless pit that is the Health Service.


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    #55
    lalababa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭lalababa


    lalababa wrote: »
    Had major difficulty understanding the IT article. Seem hard to defrienciate between VRT changes and motor tax changes.
    What exactly are they kite flying? Thanks.
    Edit: like the 1st list is titled new motor tax rates...and they have co2 bands and corresponding rates but they give the rates in %s ...like %s of what??


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    #56
    R.O.R
    Registered Users Posts: 12,672 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    lalababa wrote: »
    Edit: like the 1st list is titled new motor tax rates...and they have co2 bands and corresponding rates but they give the rates in %s ...like %s of what??

    VRT %'s


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    #57
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    lalababa wrote: »
    Had major difficulty understanding the IT article. Seem hard to defrienciate between VRT changes and motor tax changes.
    What exactly are they kite flying? Thanks.

    I agree, its dreadfully written. That was my first thought on it.
    They are kite flying the planned changes, to see what reaction they get. Classic government tactic.


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    #58
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    bazz26 wrote: »
    The world's most expensive children's hospital, National Broadband program, etc all need to be paid for. We also have to keep shoveling money into that bottomless pit that is the Health Service.


    And servicing the unprecedented debt they saddled us with, and our children, grandchildren etc etc.


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    #59
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,620 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    There's a big risk of the Government levying so much tax on cars that it'll be into diminishing marginal returns soon.


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    #60
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    There's a big risk of the Government levying so much tax on cars that it'll be into diminishing marginal returns soon.

    Very possibly.
    But these things are drawn up by bean counters, they come up with a target they want to achieve and then dream up methods of getting at least that amount, and probably pick the one that they calculate will be the most advantageous in terms of getting reelected.
    I dont think any other form of thinking goes into it.


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    #61
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,987 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I thought I'd be moving out of my diesel soon to a petrol, as I could see the Gov taxing the hell out of diesel to get people to stop buying them, but reading this it looks like they might hit petrol nearly as hard?


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