Budget 2020 new motor tax scale

mikeecho · 18-07-2019 12:49am #1

Looks like imports are being hit with higher import taxes, and a new sliding scale for motor tax.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/major-changes-to-motor-tax-proposed-for-upcoming-budget-1.3959563

This as well as increased carbon tax on Fossil fuel.

Fun times ahead.

road_high · 18-07-2019 1:30am

mikeecho wrote: »

Looks like imports are being hit with higher import taxes, and a new sliding scale for motor tax.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/major-changes-to-motor-tax-proposed-for-upcoming-budget-1.3959563

This as well as increased carbon tax on Fossil fuel.

Fun times ahead.

How depressing. Ultimately the law of diminishing returns is going to kick in pretty soon whereby the revenue gouchers will see a decrease in tax take as even buying/running a car will prove out of reach for many. If you lived in Dublin near good public transport and could make do without a car then you’d have to seriously consider the rationale for bothering with one anymore

road_high · 18-07-2019 1:34am

The cuts to the hybrid and electric incentives are purely another money grab as more motorists make the switch then they have to protect the revenue steam at all costs. The taxation on motoring here really infuriates me given so many of us have no choice but to own a car

Atlantic Dawn · 18-07-2019 7:21am

Not long before it will be an offence to use household electricity in an electric vehicle.

_Kaiser_ · 18-07-2019 8:24am

road_high wrote: »

The cuts to the hybrid and electric incentives are purely another money grab as more motorists make the switch then they have to protect the revenue steam at all costs. The taxation on motoring here really infuriates me given so many of us have no choice but to own a car

Is anyone really surprised?

The free ride for electric was never going to be maintained in the long run as they start to gain traction in the national fleet.

Except they still make up only a tiny percentage. This move will likely significantly stifle adoption until the next budget starts to proactively punish ICE owners for needing a car and not having tens of thousands to replace it with one that may not meet their needs.

It happened overnight in 2008 for petrol cars. It'll happen again.

kirving · 18-07-2019 9:04am

Toyota's legendary reliabliliy aside, Hybrid systems are very complicated relative to a normal ICE car.

My view on it would be that the current VRT reduction provides a little insurance against things going wrong, while also encouraging people in the right direction. Increasing VRT before mainstream adoption is cynical and totally disingenuous - but that's nothing new.

I bought a Hybrid last time, I may as well buy a diesel next time at this rate.

Reminds me of Fianna Fail reinstating duty on bio-ethanol, having previously granted a €5k VRT rebate to buyers. E85 cars could have been excluded from the CO2 based Motor Tax rates too, but that didn't happen either. Despite the fact it's carbon neutral and commonplace in Scandinavia and France, and costs around €0.50c/L.

ednwireland · 18-07-2019 9:23am

The strategy group says motor tax receipts for passenger cars have been falling in the last five years due to the lower emissions of newer cars. The average tax receipt per car has fallen from €466 in 2014 to an estimated €342 this year.

this is the big problem for the government and they need to keep there revenue stream and if more people buy electrics theyll need to charge those (pun wasnt intended but i'll take it !) , i expect to see an electricity surcharge in the next few years as well to make up the revenue shortfall.

BonnieSituation · 18-07-2019 9:27am

My Carina turns 30 next April. They better not touch the €56 job.

hi5 · 18-07-2019 9:40am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Not long before it will be an offence to use household electricity in an electric vehicle.

You'll probably need a special meter like Night Save.
I could also see where if you produce your own electricity from solar/wind etc, then you would be obliged to pay a tax on that, just as you pay tax if you produce your own biodiesel from rape seed or chip shop oil.

wowy · 18-07-2019 9:54am

https://assets.gov.ie/19116/c447474fea5e422080a6384b7a84fbed.pdf

The paper is here (from page 32 for Motor Tax). The proposal to abolish the EV & PHEV grants is costed against the proposed reduced VRT rate (see page 42), so even with the €5K relief gone, the VRT for the most efficient EVs and PHEVs will still be lower than currently.

Black_Knight · 18-07-2019 10:54am

wowy wrote: »

https://assets.gov.ie/19116/c447474fea5e422080a6384b7a84fbed.pdf

The paper is here (from page 32 for Motor Tax). The proposal to abolish the EV & PHEV grants is costed against the proposed reduced VRT rate (see page 42), so even with the €5K relief gone, the VRT for the most efficient EVs and PHEVs will still be lower than currently.

Ireland currently has a well-developed infrastructure for electric vehicles ...

lol

carsfan2 · 18-07-2019 11:10am

I can’t see the SIMI being at all happy with these proposals. New car sales are down already. Lots of garages are struggling and this will only make new cars more expensive and buyers uncertain.
I’d say a lot of lobbying will go on.

Black_Knight · 18-07-2019 11:23am

carsfan2 wrote: »

I can’t see the SIMI being at all happy with these proposals. New car sales are down already. Lots of garages are struggling and this will only make new cars more expensive and buyers uncertain.
I’d say a lot of lobbying will go on.

IMO, sales are down because the new car buyer is eyeing up the shift to electric cars. The type of car they want isn't available yet in electric form, or isn't at a price point they're able to meet, so they wait. The new changes would benefit electric and PHEV prices (from what i've read and understand), but the options are just too limited at the moment. Perhaps garages just aren't selling what the customer wants.

bazz26 · 18-07-2019 11:30am

Its that time of year where these "leaks" surface with an upcoming budget where these leaks are put out intentionally to gauge public reaction and condition people to expect the worse but be glad it wasn't as bad when budget time actually comes round. Also I've said it before but popular terms like Climate Change will just be used as a license to print money by the Government. The revenue stream from the motorist has to be protected and that their real strategy.

18-07-2019 11:56am

carsfan2 wrote: »

I can’t see the SIMI being at all happy with these proposals.

**** them

rireland · 18-07-2019 12:13pm

bazz26 wrote: »

Its that time of year where these "leaks" surface with an upcoming budget where these leaks are put out intentionally to gauge public reaction and condition people to expect the worse but be glad it wasn't as bad when budget time actually comes round. Also I've said it before but popular terms like Climate Change will just be used as a license to print money by the Government. The revenue stream from the motorist has to be protected and that their real strategy.

Yep exactly. They'll make minor tweaks here and there but by the time the budget comes around everyone knows what's happening so the outrage isn't there.

There's less outrage when it's leaked in the papers. You'll only get outrage if news is front page and reaches main story on radio/tv.

ml100 · 18-07-2019 12:19pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

carsfan2 wrote: »

I can’t see the SIMI being at all happy with these proposals. New car sales are down already. Lots of garages are struggling and this will only make new cars more expensive and buyers uncertain.
I’d say a lot of lobbying will go on.

IMO, sales are down because the new car buyer is eyeing up the shift to electric cars. The type of car they want isn't available yet in electric form, or isn't at a price point they're able to meet, so they wait. The new changes would benefit electric and PHEV prices (from what i've read and understand), but the options are just too limited at the moment. Perhaps garages just aren't selling what the customer wants.

Sales are down because new cars have already got too expensive, the amount of people thinking about EV cars in the general population is very low, people are buying 1 year old ICE cars from the UK because new cars here are too expensive.

rivegauche · 18-07-2019 1:27pm

wowy wrote: »

https://assets.gov.ie/19116/c447474fea5e422080a6384b7a84fbed.pdf

The paper is here (from page 32 for Motor Tax). The proposal to abolish the EV & PHEV grants is costed against the proposed reduced VRT rate (see page 42), so even with the €5K relief gone, the VRT for the most efficient EVs and PHEVs will still be lower than currently.

If you are importing a car for which there is no NOx value they will assume it is exceeding limits and charge the maximum amount possible.
Bye-bye classic cars from the eighties, nineties and early noughties.

" For older vehicles where the NOx value is not stated on the documentation presented
to Revenue, it is reasonable that Revenue could require the person to obtain this information
from the car manufacturer. Failing the furnishing of such proofs it is reasonable that Revenue
could replicate section 132(3)(a)(II) of the Finance Act 1992 (as amended) to calculate the
surcharge amount, namely to select the NOx value which corresponds to the NOx value that
is at the highest threshold level from the Euro standards tables. "

terrydel · 18-07-2019 1:29pm

bazz26 wrote: »

Its that time of year where these "leaks" surface with an upcoming budget where these leaks are put out intentionally to gauge public reaction and condition people to expect the worse but be glad it wasn't as bad when budget time actually comes round. Also I've said it before but popular terms like Climate Change will just be used as a license to print money by the Government. The revenue stream from the motorist has to be protected and that their real strategy.

They are kite flying thru what has practically become the governments in-house newspaper, the irish times.

Eric Cartman · 18-07-2019 1:50pm

If it doesnt impact the pre 08 cars we might see a bit of a revival of pre 08 barges.

What would this mean for pre co2 imports ?

ShadowHearth · 18-07-2019 2:19pm

I presume it will kick in on all new cars sold, not the current ones? If so, nicer cars 1-4 years old will be quite in demand.
When all new wltp, new tax system, increase in vrt next year will hit, it's going to be even more expensive to buy new car.
Something tells me if you want something nice and not too old, then it's better to grab it now.

galwaytt · 18-07-2019 2:43pm

road_high wrote: »

The cuts to the hybrid and electric incentives are purely another money grab as more motorists make the switch then they have to protect the revenue steam at all costs. The taxation on motoring here really infuriates me given so many of us have no choice but to own a car

Indeed: Toyota Ireland CEO has made repeated noises in the Press and I'm sure beyond that 'something has to be done' to stem the tide of so-called 'dirty-diesels' coming in from the UK.

Well, he get is wish on that, but I bet he didn't see the carpet being pulled out from under his favoured drivetrain - Hybrid - by the Minister doing away with Hybrid incentives..........a case of being careful what you wish for I assume.

_Kaiser_ · 18-07-2019 4:05pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If it doesnt impact the pre 08 cars we might see a bit of a revival of pre 08 barges.

What would this mean for pre co2 imports ?

You won't because pre-08 barges already have ridiculous tax rates, plus the insurers don't want to know (or try to price them out of the market) once they pass 10/11 years old.

They won't be coming back, except for those who could probably just absorb these mooted increases anyway.

sligo_dave · 18-07-2019 4:51pm

If the changes come in as speculated in July next year, will the period January to July be allowed as a buffer period where the more favourable rate will be applied whether it is new or old method?

In some cases (the lower CO2 bracket) it will result in lower cost from July and therefore would delay uptake in certain cases if this buffer period is not allowed for.

beggars_bush · 18-07-2019 5:02pm

And still noboby has thought of just having a flat rate of taxing cars based on engine size/CO2 and then apply carbon tax to the fuel
As in, the more you drive the more you pay model

road_high · 18-07-2019 5:05pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

IMO, sales are down because the new car buyer is eyeing up the shift to electric cars. The type of car they want isn't available yet in electric form, or isn't at a price point they're able to meet, so they wait. The new changes would benefit electric and PHEV prices (from what i've read and understand), but the options are just too limited at the moment. Perhaps garages just aren't selling what the customer wants.

It’s nothing to do with electric- it’s the price increases from the new emissions testing coupled with a weak sterling euro exchange making new car prices unaffordable. Suddenly Focus class cars with decent spec seem to be up to 30k to buy these days

Cee-Jay-Cee · 18-07-2019 5:13pm

I don’t understand why they’re faffing about with so many tax bands and trying to bring certain cars in a more favourable rate etc etc just scrap the two current systems and introduce one single tax per car. Something around €400 per vehicle per year regardless of how big or small is it would generate more money than the current systems and no one can complain as everyone pays the same rate. Set up a system similar to the TV licence where you can pay monthly if need be and absolutely hammer anyone caught driving with tax out longer than 1 month with an on the spot fine of €1000.

road_high · 18-07-2019 5:15pm

galwaytt wrote: »

Indeed: Toyota Ireland CEO has made repeated noises in the Press and I'm sure beyond that 'something has to be done' to stem the tide of so-called 'dirty-diesels' coming in from the UK.

Well, he get is wish on that, but I bet he didn't see the carpet being pulled out from under his favoured drivetrain - Hybrid - by the Minister doing away with Hybrid incentives..........a case of being careful what you wish for I assume.

The so called environmental case for hybrids is weak enough in reality vs a modern diesel still.

william o t · 18-07-2019 5:40pm

Good god almighty. Where does it end it this country with taxation...water, property, income, road, 50% on fuel etc etc etc.
The sooner some form of disruptive technology ie Volvo's car subscription service or similar becomes common place the better. Car ownership is becoming an unaffordable luxury in Ireland.

freshpopcorn · 18-07-2019 6:28pm

Remember we sent a clear message to the government in May #GreenWave.

corks finest · 18-07-2019 6:44pm

road_high wrote: »

The cuts to the hybrid and electric incentives are purely another money grab as more motorists make the switch then they have to protect the revenue steam at all costs. The taxation on motoring here really infuriates me given so many of us have no choice but to own a car

FG are weak/ greedy/ inept,pls go away

Budget 2020 new motor tax scale

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