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Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

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    #1832
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    TCP/IP wrote: »
    Is still funny. He makes great points.

    great points such as?


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    #1833
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,998 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    great points such as?

    Going back to the 70s to see villeneuve vs arnoux? I hear the summer holidays were always sunny back then too. The fantasy of the good ole days is the easiest to sell.

    I was never a fan of Clarkson so I can't really judge if this is some of his good comedy or not.


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    #1834
    TCP/IP
    Subscribers Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭TCP/IP


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    great points such as?

    Well let’s start with the following:

    Cars can’t race
    No competition
    Stewards ruining racing in the supposed name of safety
    Terrible tracks
    Public losing interest

    You would need to be stupid not to see this.


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    #1835
    skipper_G
    Registered Users Posts: 14,623 ✭✭✭✭skipper_G


    TCP/IP wrote: »
    Well let’s start with the following:

    Cars can’t race
    No competition
    Stewards ruining racing in the supposed name of safety
    Terrible tracks
    Public losing interest

    You would need to be stupid not to see this.

    But they're the same complaints plenty of people have, some of them may be valid but they are not great points at all. He offers no critical insight into how any of those could be remedied except for hyperbolic nonsense like 5 bonus points for dangerous driving, abolishing stewards and telling Mercedes and Ferrari to **** off. The whole clip was pointless. There's plenty wrong with F1, but Jeremy Clarkson is hardly going to solve those.


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    #1836
    Inviere
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭Inviere


    skipper_G wrote: »
    But they're the same complaints plenty of people have, some of them may be valid but they are not great points at all. He offers no critical insight into how any of those could be remedied except for hyperbolic nonsense like 5 bonus points for dangerous driving, abolishing stewards and telling Mercedes and Ferrari to **** off. The whole clip was pointless. There's plenty wrong with F1, but Jeremy Clarkson is hardly going to solve those.

    You're taking it too literal, he's obviously being a bit hyperbolic. I think it's important though that someone fairly high profile shares the same thoughts that many fans do, it's important that people are vocal about the direction F1 has taken.

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    #1837
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,506 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    his crazy solutions is not the answer but his critisism is valid


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    #1838
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    oh theres no question f1 is in trouble, but this has been very long in the making. i personally think corporatizing sports is lethal, a similar problem has been occurring in major league football globally. its very hard to deal with a sport when big money gets involved, it somewhat sterilizes the sport


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    #1839
    skipper_G
    Registered Users Posts: 14,623 ✭✭✭✭skipper_G


    Inviere wrote: »
    You're taking it too literal, he's obviously being a bit hyperbolic. I think it's important though that someone fairly high profile shares the same thoughts that many fans do, it's important that people are vocal about the direction F1 has taken.

    I'm not taking Clarkson's piece as literal at all. I know his style is to be over the top, brash and hyperbolic, exactly what the piece was. But to say he raised great points is just false. He sounds like every other person moaning about the sport. He didn't bother to watch Silverstone and instead watched the tennis. That's his mistake, because he missed a great race.


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    #1840
    TCP/IP
    Subscribers Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭TCP/IP


    skipper_G wrote: »
    I'm not taking Clarkson's piece as literal at all. I know his style is to be over the top, brash and hyperbolic, exactly what the piece was. But to say he raised great points is just false. He sounds like every other person moaning about the sport. He didn't bother to watch Silverstone and instead watched the tennis. That's his mistake, because he missed a great race.

    A great race are you crazy it was a procession a terrible race more like it. Austria was a great race. Another Merc procession is not a great race.


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    #1841
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,506 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    skipper_G wrote: »
    I'm not taking Clarkson's piece as literal at all. I know his style is to be over the top, brash and hyperbolic, exactly what the piece was. But to say he raised great points is just false. He sounds like every other person moaning about the sport. He didn't bother to watch Silverstone and instead watched the tennis. That's his mistake, because he missed a great race.

    there are good points but they are not new points. hopefully having someone like clarkson saying it will give it more weight.


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    #1842
    skipper_G
    Registered Users Posts: 14,623 ✭✭✭✭skipper_G


    TCP/IP wrote: »
    A great race are you crazy it was a procession a terrible race more like it. Austria was a great race. Another Merc procession is not a great race.

    I respectfully disagree, from the rate the race thread on this forum it had an average rating of 7.2 and 77% voted it 7 or above.

    Was it a predictable winner? Yes.
    Was it a terrible race? Absolutely not.

    They are two different things, F1 needs to be more competitive undoubtedly. It's not healthy that 70% of the entrants can't compete for wins. But it's impossible to flick a switch and solve that overnight.


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    #1843
    TCP/IP
    Subscribers Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭TCP/IP


    skipper_G wrote: »
    I respectfully disagree, from the rate the race thread on this forum it had an average rating of 7.2 and 77% voted it 7 or above.

    Was it a predictable winner? Yes.
    Was it a terrible race? Absolutely not.

    They are two different things, F1 needs to be more competitive undoubtedly. It's not healthy that 70% of the entrants can't compete for wins. But it's impossible to flick a switch and solve that overnight.

    Agree it can’t be fixed overnight and my worry is that it will never be.
    To boring to safe no action the sport I love and have watched for 30 years is dieing.


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    #1844
    seamusk84
    Registered Users Posts: 880 ✭✭✭seamusk84


    I’ve been watching F1 since 1997.

    Since then the sport has always been described as “In trouble”. Clarkson is a moaning clown and always has been.

    We have just had 2 great races and the sport is moving in the right direction re 2021. Yeah it will take time but for the most part we have an exciting grid currently (exception the Mercs)

    The only major issue for the sport I see is F1 is not on free to air TV anymore. That is something that needs to be addressed.


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    #1845
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,243 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    TCP/IP wrote: »
    Agree it can’t be fixed overnight and my worry is that it will never be.
    To boring to safe no action the sport I love and have watched for 30 years is dieing.

    What the feck is too safe?


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    #1846
    Infoanon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,624 ✭✭✭Infoanon


    skipper_G wrote: »
    Was it a predictable winner? Yes.
    Was it a terrible race? Absolutely not.
    Perhaps if the television coverage had been better and the intense midfield battle had been shown the rating would have been higher.
    Showing the crowds and not the racing And ignoring all but the front runners has been an issue in F1 for decades and easily fixable...alas. ..


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    #1847
    tipp_tipp_tipp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 407 ✭✭tipp_tipp_tipp


    seamusk84 wrote: »
    I’ve been watching F1 since 1997.

    Since then the sport has always been described as “In trouble”. Clarkson is a moaning clown and always has been.

    We have just had 2 great races and the sport is moving in the right direction re 2021. Yeah it will take time but for the most part we have an exciting grid currently (exception the Mercs)

    The only major issue for the sport I see is F1 is not on free to air TV anymore. That is something that needs to be addressed.

    Was about to post something similar. These Mercedes dominated seasons have been a lot better than the early 2000s when Ferrari were dominating. Those were bad times with very little action on track. I think those years were very damaging for the sport, and I feel it's been trying to justify it's existence ever since. Funny I see something similar going on in Gaelic Football at the moment. They've had a 2-3 dull seasons, and now the sport is 'dying', 'in trouble', etc. There's always a big overreaction to a poor game, similar to a poor race in F1. There is plenty for F1 to improve on, but to say it's dying I think is an over reaction.

    What worries me though, is I've never seen the performance levels throughout the field as static as they are now. The start of every year feels like groundhog day, with Merc, Ferrari and Red Bull out in front, then a big gap to the rest. It's very concerning that a decently funded team such as a Renault has been completely incapable of closing the gap in the last couple of years. In fact regarding Renault, I have never really understood why they are in F1 and how it fits into their brand.


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    #1848
    Inviere
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭Inviere


    skipper_G wrote: »
    But to say he raised great points is just false.

    He made some good points I thought, particularly how interest levels have dropped off sharply (this is congruent with the catastrophic drop in viewing figures over the last x number of years), how the tracks are just not fit for racing, how the design of the cars actively prohibits close racing/following. Ok, granted, he might not have put forward solutions to these problems, but again I think it's nice to see some high profile criticism of the things we all whinge about, it gives them some validity to know these things aren't confined to discussion forums and reddit threads.

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    #1849
    TCP/IP
    Subscribers Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭TCP/IP


    pjohnson wrote: »
    What the feck is too safe?

    To safe is these massive run off areas and now damage to the cars for making a mistake that’s what is to safe. If a driver goes wide and makes a mistake it should take a massive toll on the car and the drivers race. How could you not agree.


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    #1850
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,506 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    the problem is that the cars are too reliable and working to far inside their design limits. we want them on the edge of grip and downforce. as a result the drivers are not pushed as much as they should , they should be on the limit most of the time . look at the results of the races. most cars finish and very few breakdown.
    they do need to be more robust so ou can get your elbows out for a bit of wheel to wheel racing
    we need tracks that allow close racing with twisty bits to give overtaking locations and fast areas that alow the speed but then need to break hard to make the next corner. we need places for the last ofthe late breakers to try a late lunge on the breaks to make a pass


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    #1851
    flazio
    Registered Users Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    You say that but then in the same breath you are holding up Austria as one of the best races this year. Guess how many cars finished that race? All 20.


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    #1852
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,506 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    flazio wrote: »
    You say that but then in the same breath you are holding up Austria as one of the best races this year. Guess how many cars finished that race? All 20.

    i know. i see the irony there. but austia is one of only 2 that were better than terrible. the bar was fairly low in that regard.


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    #1853
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    F1 began it's long spiral to the present day in 2005 with those tyres that had to last an entire race distance. Between 05-09 the only repeat chanpion was Alonso. Vettel & Red Bull dominated the final 4 seasons of the V8 era before these atrocious V6 hybrids were brought in from 2014. All i can say is thank god for Nico Rosberg in 2016, otherwise it would have been Hamilton headed for title number 7 this year, 6 consecutively, the British media would be creaming themselves at the thought of that. I am done with F1 from a subscription point of view, i just can't keep the interest going when the season so far has been the biggest bore in years, we need more tracks like Austria at their altitude to stand any chance of the Mercedes domination being broken, because i do not see this ending in 2021 and Ferrari will have another wait of 21 years or more for a drivers title if they keep doing what they are doing.


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    #1854
    Jordan 199
    Registered Users Posts: 11,683 ✭✭✭✭Jordan 199


    Two more races (Hockenheim and Hungaroring) to go before the summer break. I think Red Bull will win in Hungary.


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    #1855
    AMKC
    Registered Users Posts: 15,645 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Jordan 199 wrote: »
    Two more races (Hockenheim and Hungaroring) to go before the summer break. I think Red Bull will win in Hungary.

    I hope you are right. I think most people are bored of Mercedes and Hamilton winning all the time.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



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    #1856
    AMKC
    Registered Users Posts: 15,645 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    F1 began it's long spiral to the present day in 2005 with those tyres that had to last an entire race distance. Between 05-09 the only repeat chanpion was Alonso. Vettel & Red Bull dominated the final 4 seasons of the V8 era before these atrocious V6 hybrids were brought in from 2014. All i can say is thank god for Nico Rosberg in 2016, otherwise it would have been Hamilton headed for title number 7 this year, 6 consecutively, the British media would be creaming themselves at the thought of that. I am done with F1 from a subscription point of view, i just can't keep the interest going when the season so far has been the biggest bore in years, we need more tracks like Austria at their altitude to stand any chance of the Mercedes domination being broken, because i do not see this ending in 2021 and Ferrari will have another wait of 21 years or more for a drivers title if they keep doing what they are doing.


    F1 began it's long spiral to the present day in 2005 with those tyres that had to last an entire race distance. Between 05-09 the only repeat chanpion was Alonso. Vettel & Red Bull dominated the final 4 seasons of the V8 era before these atrocious V6 hybrids were brought in from 2014.

    Oh I remember that in 05 and the cars barely making it to the end on tyres with the steel wire sticking out of them. It was quiet dangerous at times too. That was good driving. I agree tyres should last a whole race but should also degrade over several laps so there should be at least a one stop maybe two stop race.
    They were good times them few years with the different winners every year.

    I do not think the V6's are atrocious sure they could be louder but they still have a lot of power for there size and are very fast too.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



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    #1857
    H3llR4iser
    Registered Users Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭H3llR4iser


    As much as I love Clarkson's over the top statements which often end up being quite right (and that probably p1sses off people more than his style), he's just saying stuff that I've been hearing about F1 since the 1990s - the Williams domination era, specifically. Back in 1992, there were complaints about races being "dull", the "same driver always wins" (that would be Mansell, who "only" won 9 races that season) and that the cars were "too easy to drive". Heck, I've seen articles complaining about the cars being "on rails" from the 1970s.

    F1 has never been about the show; Compared with stuff like Nascar, Indycar or Touring Cars, the "on track" action has always been "dull" - and when it wasn't, it's been due to a fluke and/or favourable circumstances. It's almost always been the case of 1-2 teams puling ahead considerably - this used to happen in the "golden era" too. Sure enough, at the time there was an aura of glamour and heroism around the drivers and the teams but let's be honest, this was the case with just about EVERYTHING; Back then astronauts were cool popular heroes driving Corvettes, today nobody pays attention to them as they're "nerds".

    Viewing figures went down thanks in no small part to the idiotic Pay TV deal - as I said many times, motorsports are an "acquired taste" unless you're born in Maranello or Indianapolis. It's something you don't even know the existence of until you stumble upon it on TV, it's not something that has a local influence like football. If you can't just randomly catch it on TV, you won't follow or even know about F1.

    In the end the concept is simple - if people are all so keen about F1 being a "show", it can be made into it: spec-chassis for all teams (Dallara would jump at the opportunity), FOM designed and built aero kits, low-cost production derived turbo engines (e.g. bringing Alfa Romeo's current road-going turbo V6 to 800hp wouldn't be too difficult), we could add in sprinklers or "safety car joins the track as soon as the leader exceeds a 5 secons lead" (believe it or not, it has been proposed in the past).

    But then people would complain it's not F1 anymore, it's not the "fastest cars", it's not the "pinnacle of motorsport"...


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    #1858
    vectra
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭vectra


    Jordan 199 wrote: »
    Two more races (Hockenheim and Hungaroring) to go before the summer break. I think Red Bull will win in Hungary.


    I hope LeClerc wins.
    He deserves a break at this stage.:)


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    #1859
    Inviere
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭Inviere


    vectra wrote: »
    I hope LeClerc wins.
    He deserves a break at this stage.:)

    Agreed, I'd like to see him get the monkey off his back at this stage.

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    #1860
    tigerboon
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭tigerboon


    TCP/IP wrote: »
    To safe is these massive run off areas and now damage to the cars for making a mistake that’s what is to safe. If a driver goes wide and makes a mistake it should take a massive toll on the car and the drivers race. How could you not agree.

    Four wheels outside the white lines should be have a time penalty. How to apply it is the problem. Quite reasonable considering the consequences in the old days. If there's to be a toll on the car, it cannot affect other competitors. Power loss penalty is probably the answer to both.


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    #1861
    flazio
    Registered Users Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    tigerboon wrote: »
    Four wheels outside the white lines should be have a time penalty. How to apply it is the problem. Quite reasonable considering the consequences in the old days. If there's to be a toll on the car, it cannot affect other competitors. Power loss penalty is probably the answer to both.
    Fit sensors to the cars. Ever here of lane departure warnings


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