Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

the_pen_turner · 21-07-2019 7:57pm

flazio wrote: »

You say that but then in the same breath you are holding up Austria as one of the best races this year. Guess how many cars finished that race? All 20.

i know. i see the irony there. but austia is one of only 2 that were better than terrible. the bar was fairly low in that regard.

Cork Trucker · 21-07-2019 9:49pm

F1 began it's long spiral to the present day in 2005 with those tyres that had to last an entire race distance. Between 05-09 the only repeat chanpion was Alonso. Vettel & Red Bull dominated the final 4 seasons of the V8 era before these atrocious V6 hybrids were brought in from 2014. All i can say is thank god for Nico Rosberg in 2016, otherwise it would have been Hamilton headed for title number 7 this year, 6 consecutively, the British media would be creaming themselves at the thought of that. I am done with F1 from a subscription point of view, i just can't keep the interest going when the season so far has been the biggest bore in years, we need more tracks like Austria at their altitude to stand any chance of the Mercedes domination being broken, because i do not see this ending in 2021 and Ferrari will have another wait of 21 years or more for a drivers title if they keep doing what they are doing.

Jordan 199 · 21-07-2019 10:54pm

Two more races (Hockenheim and Hungaroring) to go before the summer break. I think Red Bull will win in Hungary.

AMKC · 21-07-2019 11:12pm

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Two more races (Hockenheim and Hungaroring) to go before the summer break. I think Red Bull will win in Hungary.

I hope you are right. I think most people are bored of Mercedes and Hamilton winning all the time.

AMKC · 21-07-2019 11:31pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

F1 began it's long spiral to the present day in 2005 with those tyres that had to last an entire race distance. Between 05-09 the only repeat chanpion was Alonso. Vettel & Red Bull dominated the final 4 seasons of the V8 era before these atrocious V6 hybrids were brought in from 2014. All i can say is thank god for Nico Rosberg in 2016, otherwise it would have been Hamilton headed for title number 7 this year, 6 consecutively, the British media would be creaming themselves at the thought of that. I am done with F1 from a subscription point of view, i just can't keep the interest going when the season so far has been the biggest bore in years, we need more tracks like Austria at their altitude to stand any chance of the Mercedes domination being broken, because i do not see this ending in 2021 and Ferrari will have another wait of 21 years or more for a drivers title if they keep doing what they are doing.

F1 began it's long spiral to the present day in 2005 with those tyres that had to last an entire race distance. Between 05-09 the only repeat chanpion was Alonso. Vettel & Red Bull dominated the final 4 seasons of the V8 era before these atrocious V6 hybrids were brought in from 2014.

Oh I remember that in 05 and the cars barely making it to the end on tyres with the steel wire sticking out of them. It was quiet dangerous at times too. That was good driving. I agree tyres should last a whole race but should also degrade over several laps so there should be at least a one stop maybe two stop race.
They were good times them few years with the different winners every year.

I do not think the V6's are atrocious sure they could be louder but they still have a lot of power for there size and are very fast too.

H3llR4iser · 21-07-2019 11:40pm

As much as I love Clarkson's over the top statements which often end up being quite right (and that probably p1sses off people more than his style), he's just saying stuff that I've been hearing about F1 since the 1990s - the Williams domination era, specifically. Back in 1992, there were complaints about races being "dull", the "same driver always wins" (that would be Mansell, who "only" won 9 races that season) and that the cars were "too easy to drive". Heck, I've seen articles complaining about the cars being "on rails" from the 1970s.

F1 has never been about the show; Compared with stuff like Nascar, Indycar or Touring Cars, the "on track" action has always been "dull" - and when it wasn't, it's been due to a fluke and/or favourable circumstances. It's almost always been the case of 1-2 teams puling ahead considerably - this used to happen in the "golden era" too. Sure enough, at the time there was an aura of glamour and heroism around the drivers and the teams but let's be honest, this was the case with just about EVERYTHING; Back then astronauts were cool popular heroes driving Corvettes, today nobody pays attention to them as they're "nerds".

Viewing figures went down thanks in no small part to the idiotic Pay TV deal - as I said many times, motorsports are an "acquired taste" unless you're born in Maranello or Indianapolis. It's something you don't even know the existence of until you stumble upon it on TV, it's not something that has a local influence like football. If you can't just randomly catch it on TV, you won't follow or even know about F1.

In the end the concept is simple - if people are all so keen about F1 being a "show", it can be made into it: spec-chassis for all teams (Dallara would jump at the opportunity), FOM designed and built aero kits, low-cost production derived turbo engines (e.g. bringing Alfa Romeo's current road-going turbo V6 to 800hp wouldn't be too difficult), we could add in sprinklers or "safety car joins the track as soon as the leader exceeds a 5 secons lead" (believe it or not, it has been proposed in the past).

But then people would complain it's not F1 anymore, it's not the "fastest cars", it's not the "pinnacle of motorsport"...

vectra · 22-07-2019 9:36am

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Two more races (Hockenheim and Hungaroring) to go before the summer break. I think Red Bull will win in Hungary.

I hope LeClerc wins.
He deserves a break at this stage.:)

Inviere · 22-07-2019 9:38am

vectra wrote: »

I hope LeClerc wins.
He deserves a break at this stage.:)

Agreed, I'd like to see him get the monkey off his back at this stage.

tigerboon · 22-07-2019 8:10pm

TCP/IP wrote: »

To safe is these massive run off areas and now damage to the cars for making a mistake that’s what is to safe. If a driver goes wide and makes a mistake it should take a massive toll on the car and the drivers race. How could you not agree.

Four wheels outside the white lines should be have a time penalty. How to apply it is the problem. Quite reasonable considering the consequences in the old days. If there's to be a toll on the car, it cannot affect other competitors. Power loss penalty is probably the answer to both.

flazio · 22-07-2019 8:32pm

tigerboon wrote: »

Four wheels outside the white lines should be have a time penalty. How to apply it is the problem. Quite reasonable considering the consequences in the old days. If there's to be a toll on the car, it cannot affect other competitors. Power loss penalty is probably the answer to both.

Fit sensors to the cars. Ever here of lane departure warnings

the_pen_turner · 22-07-2019 9:54pm

tigerboon wrote: »

Four wheels outside the white lines should be have a time penalty. How to apply it is the problem. Quite reasonable considering the consequences in the old days. If there's to be a toll on the car, it cannot affect other competitors. Power loss penalty is probably the answer to both.

the penalty loop is probably the best for these type things

sand traps were great to penalise any severe run offs but now there would have to be a safety car and that would ruin things too

El_Duderino 09 · 23-07-2019 8:49am

the_pen_turner wrote: »

the penalty loop is probably the best for these type things

sand traps were great to penalise any severe run offs but now there would have to be a safety car and that would ruin things too

People would complain that it robs us of real battles for position. Hamilton chasing bottas, bottas runs wide in a particular corner twice, bottas gets a loop penalty, Hamilton sails through.

I think a lot of people who t be happy until we get back to a past that never existed. The time where villenuve and arnoux fraught for the lead on the last lap of every race.

We'll have to see what the new rules throw up in 2021.

the_pen_turner · 23-07-2019 10:33am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

People would complain that it robs us of real battles for position. Hamilton chasing bottas, bottas runs wide in a particular corner twice, bottas gets a loop penalty, Hamilton sails through.

I think a lot of people who t be happy until we get back to a past that never existed. The time where villenuve and arnoux fraught for the lead on the last lap of every race.

We'll have to see what the new rules throw up in 2021.

I agree but what difference would it make if a penalty was going to be added to the next pit stop or to the time after the race.

I wouldn't use it when someone runs wide , just give the advantage back. I would use it for middle of the road seriousness where a time penalty would normally be used

I would also have 2 loops . One that cost you half a second and one a few seconds

Charlie-Bravo · 23-07-2019 11:26am

Creating loops will only create a cost to tracks unless there was a loop/road already there. Perhaps hitting a sensor off the racing line is a penalty (similar to the attack mode sensors in Fe). Most tracks have areas where you don't want to have to venture off-line due to marbles and dirt.

pjohnson · 23-07-2019 12:30pm

The new sausage kerbs in Austria that were killing noses all through the practices were good. Or more of the abrasive paint used at Paul Ricard to make shíte outta the tyres if the car goes onto them.

Use those kerbs/abrassive surface to disinsentivise going off track and punish them. Given most drivers have to try conserving tyres for about 1/4 of the race degrading the tyres enough would basically force them to pit anyway.

AMKC · 23-07-2019 9:47pm

pjohnson wrote: »

The new sausage kerbs in Austria that were killing noses all through the practices were good. Or more of the abrasive paint used at Paul Ricard to make shíte outta the tyres if the car goes onto them.

Use those kerbs/abrassive surface to disinsentivise going off track and punish them. Given most drivers have to try conserving tyres for about 1/4 of the race degrading the tyres enough would basically force them to pit anyway.

I agree about the kerbs in Austria but not so sure about the abrasive paint. Did that paint even work?. I do not remember to many of them being affected by it.

pjohnson · 23-07-2019 9:54pm

AMKC wrote: »

I agree about the kerbs in Austria but not so sure about the abrasive paint. Did that paint even work?. I do not remember to many of them being affected by it.

I think Perez complained at the start. I'd make it more abrasive/grippy. It would still be safe to put in the run off area as it would slow the car aswell as bólloxing the tyre, tyre degredation would be a killer.

the_pen_turner · 23-07-2019 9:55pm

astrofluff wrote: »

Creating loops will only create a cost to tracks unless there was a loop/road already there. Perhaps hitting a sensor off the racing line is a penalty (similar to the attack mode sensors in Fe). Most tracks have areas where you don't want to have to venture off-line due to marbles and dirt.

most tracks are designed to be changed to suit lots of diferent configurations. it shouldnt add any costs at all to most tracks

Rossi IRL · 24-07-2019 11:14am

https://twitter.com/F1/status/1153970535304507393?s=19

El_Duderino 09 · 24-07-2019 11:25am

Rossi IRL wrote: »

https://twitter.com/F1/status/1153970535304507393?s=19

I liked the fact that ferrari wasn't involved. It's the worst team for talking freely to the media and the whole charm of the show way the fact that it wasnt polished and manicured by the PR people.

I know it's not a popular opinion but I see ferrari as the vestigial organ in f1. It must be the worst value for money team on the grid over the last decade and still it thrives because it's able to coast on reputation and VETO any rule changes that don't suit it.

I fear the only way it would agree to take part in season 2 is if it gets to stage manage its inputs -and maybe the overall content and contributions by other teams.

F1 should cut the cord to ferrari and give them an ultimatum. Behave like a normal team or go fly a kite.

Jordan 199 · 24-07-2019 3:00pm

Mercedes to be running a white one-off livery this weekend:

Mercedes-Formel-1-GP-Deutschland-Hockenheim-24-Mai-2019-articleGalleryOverlay-de30babf-1613615.jpg

Mercedes-Formel-1-GP-Deutschland-Hockenheim-24-Mai-2019-articleGalleryOverlay-de30babf-1613615.jpg

flazio · 24-07-2019 4:57pm

https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/1153574687781380098?s=09
I believe it's to celebrate their 125th anniversary.

cherryghost · 25-07-2019 3:56pm

I thought it was to prop up Williams in constructors

flazio · 25-07-2019 6:26pm

Only a half job it appears.
Dissapointing
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1154412241933996032?s=19

Darkglasses · 25-07-2019 6:43pm

About as dull as their usual livery

El_Duderino 09 · 25-07-2019 6:52pm

Darkglasses wrote: »

About as dull as their usual livery

The normal livery is... grand. Only grand but not bad. And they will never change it while they're on such a great run of success o er the last few years.

But the 125 year livery is nice be only on the front of the car is stupid. It might be nice on the full car though.

Darkglasses · 25-07-2019 7:02pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The normal livery is... grand. Only grand but not bad. And they will never change it while they're on such a great run of success o er the last few years.

But the 125 year livery is nice be only on the front of the car is stupid. It might be nice on the full car though.

I think it's shocking

for me the lack of colour and variation is atrocious. Grey and light blue is about as plain as it gets. Not sporty enough for me. Give me the Ferrari or Red Bull any day.

Yeah they'll definitely never change it, no sign of any real change for the last several years.

the_pen_turner · 25-07-2019 7:02pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The normal livery is... grand. Only grand but not bad. And they will never change it while they're on such a great run of success o er the last few years.

But the 125 year livery is nice be only on the front of the car is stupid. It might be nice on the full car though.

thats probably down to sponsers and legal requirments and other boring behind the scenes stuff

g1983d · 25-07-2019 7:21pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

thats probably down to sponsers and legal requirments and other boring behind the scenes stuff

Silver arrows, silver car.
They've tried to brighten it up with the green/teal but not enough, this team were is nice though

The teaser shot of the white was nice but full car shot, mix if both, meh

El_Duderino 09 · 25-07-2019 7:24pm

Darkglasses wrote: »

I think it's shocking for me the lack of colour and variation is atrocious. Grey and light blue is about as plain as it gets. Not sporty enough for me. Give me the Ferrari or Red Bull any day.

Yeah they'll definitely never change it, no sign of any real change for the last several years.

I suppose for Mercedes the livery has to be classic rather than high energy and modern.

flazio · 25-07-2019 7:28pm

Crash a Red Bull and a Mercedes Benz into each other and you'd come out with a 90s/00s Sauber.
https://images.app.goo.gl/vTg21e8hznsggbfM9

Cork Trucker · 25-07-2019 7:31pm

flazio wrote: »

Crash a Red Bull and a Mercedes Benz into each other and you'd come out with a 90s/00s Sauber.
https://images.app.goo.gl/vTg21e8hznsggbfM9

The best looking Sauber's were the 93-95 cars

pjohnson · 25-07-2019 7:34pm

Didnt Red Bull sponsor Arrows first in F1? Bernoldi was Red Bull backed iirc.

Jordan 199 · 25-07-2019 7:38pm

pjohnson wrote: »

Didnt Red Bull sponsor Arrows first in F1? Bernoldi was Red Bull backed iirc.

Red Bull first appeared in 1995 sponsoring Sauber.

Cork Trucker · 25-07-2019 7:44pm

pjohnson wrote: »

Didnt Red Bull sponsor Arrows first in F1? Bernoldi was Red Bull backed iirc.

They were a minor sponsor for Arrows due to Bernoldi yes, however the main livery on their car from 00 to their demise in 02 was the mobile phone company Orange, again another great livery

Jordan 199 · 25-07-2019 8:55pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

The best looking Sauber's were the 93-95 cars

The 1995 C14 looks great:

pjohnson · 25-07-2019 11:19pm

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Red Bull first appeared in 1995 sponsoring Sauber.

Jaysus I genuinely didnt know the company itself was that old!

Cork Trucker · 25-07-2019 11:25pm

pjohnson wrote: »

Jaysus I genuinely didnt know the company itself was that old!

Red Bull was formed in 1987

El_Duderino 09 · 25-07-2019 11:27pm

pjohnson wrote: »

Jaysus I genuinely didnt know the company itself was that old!

Sauber must be the longest running team without much success. Usually the private teams like Williams and mclaren have either won championships or gone bust.

Cork Trucker · 25-07-2019 11:51pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Sauber must be the longest running team without much success. Usually the private teams like Williams and mclaren have either won championships or gone bust.

As a complete independent they were 93-05 & 10-18. No point including the BMW ownership of 06-09. They were equal to Minardi 85-05 in being there as an independent constructor for 20 years each

d8491prj5boyvg · 27-07-2019 3:13pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I liked the fact that ferrari wasn't involved. It's the worst team for talking freely to the media and the whole charm of the show way the fact that it wasnt polished and manicured by the PR people.

I know it's not a popular opinion but I see ferrari as the vestigial organ in f1. It must be the worst value for money team on the grid over the last decade and still it thrives because it's able to coast on reputation and VETO any rule changes that don't suit it.

I fear the only way it would agree to take part in season 2 is if it gets to stage manage its inputs -and maybe the overall content and contributions by other teams.

F1 should cut the cord to ferrari and give them an ultimatum. Behave like a normal team or go fly a kite.

Agree 100%. Everyone thinks F1 needs Ferrari. F1 would be fine without Ferrari and anyway, Ferrari need F1 more. If pushed, they would tow the line. They are the spoilt child of the F1 family, stomping their feet and getting special treatment while not pulling their weight.

El_Duderino 09 · 27-07-2019 9:59pm

Payton Low Corkscrew wrote: »

Agree 100%. Everyone thinks F1 needs Ferrari. F1 would be fine without Ferrari and anyway, Ferrari need F1 more. If pushed, they would tow the line. They are the spoilt child of the F1 family, stomping their feet and getting special treatment while not pulling their weight.

It's one of the ways F1 is hamstrung by tradition. F1 "has" to do so many things that it's left with fewer options. F1 has to have Ferrari, has to have a German, Italian, British, Monacan GP.

Ferrari expects to get paid just for showing up, meanwhile much better value teams fight for scraps. I'd be fine if F1 gave Ferrari a choice between getting the normal terms for any team or leave.

Cork Trucker · 27-07-2019 10:02pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It's one of the ways F1 is hamstrung by tradition. F1 "has" to do so many things that it's left with fewer options. F1 has to have Ferrari, has to have a German, Italian, British, Monacan GP.

Ferrari expects to get paid just for showing up, meanwhile much better value teams fight for scraps. I'd be fine if F1 gave Ferrari a choice between getting the normal terms for any team or leave.

I was more upset at the original Lotus team going to the wall in 1994 than i would be now if Ferrari quit.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-07-2019 7:08pm

Sitting down to watch the highlights on C4. Why does Jones do the silly little skits? Everything he says is a scripted joke. Can't they just give straight coverage and analysis? Shorten the show if necessary but cut the terrible skits.

cherryghost · 28-07-2019 8:12pm

Karl Wendliger was vastly underrated as a driver. He had some serious speed in underpowered cars.

Cork Trucker · 28-07-2019 9:08pm

cherryghost wrote: »

Karl Wendliger was vastly underrated as a driver. He had some serious speed in underpowered cars.

He was never the same post Monaco 1994. Peter Sauber tried as best as he could with him but he never regained the form he had, clearly the accident did have some lasting impact on him. Mind you i still reckon he was better than his replacement Boullion

cherryghost · 29-07-2019 1:15am

The past 3 races have been great. Have had everything. Thank god. The season up to Austria had been woeful (Bahrain had glimmers of enjoyment). I wont expect Hock levels next week but hoping the good race trend continues (as Formula E is done-zo)

flazio · 29-07-2019 12:16pm

Bit of a mishap for one of the Renault truck drivers. Hope the driver will be OK.
https://twitter.com/RenaultF1Team/status/1155797750790967297?s=19

Inviere · 29-07-2019 12:33pm

Pictures here - https://www.kisalfold.hu/kepek/atszakitotta_egy_kamion_a_szalagkorlatot_az_m1-esen_gyornel/2064074/3382628/

dublinman1990 · 29-07-2019 2:12pm

Good grief. The driver is very lucky there to escape injury. I hope he recovers soon. Has it been revealed what the contents were inside the trailer?

Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

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