Donegal Asylum Centre Torched

Grayson · 26-11-2018 2:38pm

Rennaws wrote: »

You've just lost any credibility you had with this post imo.

Did your mum actually take someone in ?

No. No-one ever got back in contact with her. She did end up taking in an Irish family for a few months when they were between houses.

Every year at xmas my mum puts candles in every window at xmas eve. For her the story of Mary and Joseph wandering around, being turned away, is very important. When she lights those candles it's more than just symbolism. If someone came to the door needing shelter she would take them in 100%.
We grew up in the countryside. Neighbours would always comment on how our front porch light was always on. It was for the same reason. 24/7/365 that light was on.

And if a homeless person (or a tramp as we would have called them back then) called to the door, they were fed and offered hospitality.

My best friends family were similar. They also did a ridiculous amount of charity work and I spend many evenings at their place sorting through charity donations. My summers were spend volunteering for charities.

The point of all this is, that I know a hell of a lot of people who are incredibly giving. I've found that most people would help someone in need. The idea that there aren't a lot of people who'd be willing to house a refugee is ridiculous. Sure, it's not a majority of people but there's still a lot of them out there. And there's far more who would volunteer their time.

So when we see people in Moville who are reacting to the fire by forging ahead with a welcome party, it's not fair to think that they're a fringe group. People are generally nice and want to help others.

Grayson · 26-11-2018 2:40pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I agree that they're are. But there are far more people who will profess altruism but not follow up, or retract quietly when the reality hits.

To be honest, the high handed approach of the dept of Justice is doing this process no favours. Really, a direct provision centre should require planning permission minimum and that hotels cant simply be overnight changed to them. As part of the planning process, a community impact assessment should be carried out, which looks at education, healthcare, social, commercial and transport infrastructure in the community in which these are placed. It would give the community an outlet to voice their concerns.

I mean, if we now need planning to Airbnb, planning should be required for these facilities.

Direct provision is horrible and should only be short term. A hotel is fine for a couple of months but as a longer term solution it's terrible. And then we have situations like when a mother was denied food for her sick child.

CucaFace · 26-11-2018 2:42pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

A bit unrelated to the suspected arson, but I'm interested about anybody who doesn't find the idea of Georgian, Brazilian, or Pakistan refugees in Donegal particularly strange, how they would feel about a hypothetical scenario of Irish refugees in.. Singapore?

Strange or not strange?

To be honest any Brazilian trying to stay in the country through this route is just a chancer. They can easily come here (they don't even need a visa to enter the country) and study English for 2 years, then move onto higher education for another few years.

I would guess what you have here is someone who has run out of money or has gone as far as they can down the education route to stay here and is now using the refugee status option to stay longer here and work. Probably using the 'im gay and back in Brazil that's not safe' path to refugee status.

The Bishop Basher · 26-11-2018 2:43pm

Grayson wrote: »

So when we see people in Moville who are reacting to the fire by forging ahead with a welcome party, it's not fair to think that they're a fringe group. People are generally nice and want to help others.

I agree but there's a whole world of a difference between saying you'll give up a room to a family of Syrian refugees and then actually doing it.

I also do quite a bit of charity work but I wouldn't have immigrants of any variety living in my home.

Car expert · 26-11-2018 2:45pm

Grayson wrote: »

Direct provision is horrible and should only be short term. A hotel is fine for a couple of months but as a longer term solution it's terrible. And then we have situations like when a mother was denied food for her sick child.

We can put them into social housing. We need the government to wake up and start building more social houses.

10000maniacs · 26-11-2018 2:46pm

Grayson wrote: »

No. No-one ever got back in contact with her. She did end up taking in an Irish family for a few months when they were between houses.

Every year at xmas my mum puts candles in every window at xmas eve. For her the story of Mary and Joseph wandering around, being turned away, is very important. When she lights those candles it's more than just symbolism. If someone came to the door needing shelter she would take them in 100%.
We grew up in the countryside. Neighbours would always comment on how our front porch light was always on. It was for the same reason. 24/7/365 that light was on.

And if a homeless person (or a tramp as we would have called them back then) called to the door, they were fed and offered hospitality.

My best friends family were similar. They also did a ridiculous amount of charity work and I spend many evenings at their place sorting through charity donations. My summers were spend volunteering for charities.

The point of all this is, that I know a hell of a lot of people who are incredibly giving. I've found that most people would help someone in need. The idea that there aren't a lot of people who'd be willing to house a refugee is ridiculous. Sure, it's not a majority of people but there's still a lot of them out there. And there's far more who would volunteer their time.

So when we see people in Moville who are reacting to the fire by forging ahead with a welcome party, it's not fair to think that they're a fringe group. People are generally nice and want to help others.

There was a Youtube video posted of a meeting the locals attended concerning this very issue, and it is fair to say there were quite a number of objections raised. Consultation before the fact was the biggest issue. Schooling was also raised.
Just because the schoolteacher and the local counselor have put together a "Failte "group, that does not mean this is the general consensus in the town. But to the Indo, Failte is THE story.

26-11-2018 2:49pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

he either goes ahead and risks this happening again or reverts to his old business as hotelier.

Well it hasn’t happened to him (the owner of the Grand Hotel in Wicklow) so far! I have seen nothing to suggest he will change his mind. Besides if it is burnt down imagine the insurance pay out for a large building like that and loss of earnings. It would be like a lottery win for the owner.

]Hotels that don't have the support of the local community don't survive generally.

It was a loss making business with the support of the local community so it makes no odds. Whereas this change of use is likely to be highly profitable

I suspect the attackers will have won this, but the community will have to live with the burnt out hotel to remind themselves of what they've done.

That depends on what happens and how you define a win.

topper75 · 26-11-2018 2:55pm

Car expert wrote: »

We can put them into social housing. We need the government to wake up and start building more social houses.

Do you want to charge me more income tax to do this?

Or do you want to borrow money on the market on the back of future tax I pay?

They are the only two routes.

MrMusician18 · 26-11-2018 2:57pm

Grayson wrote: »

Direct provision is horrible and should only be short term. A hotel is fine for a couple of months but as a longer term solution it's terrible. And then we have situations like when a mother was denied food for her sick child.

Direct provision is only meant to be for 18 months maximum. Anyone there longer than that had been found to not be a genuine refugee and are appealing. Most appeals fail. Overall approx 90% are bogus.

And direct provision is overbearing by design, but meeds the minimum criteria set out in international law for dealing with refugees. It's meant to be unappealing so that only the genuinely fearful will put up with controls, particularly the inability to work. It reduced applications from about 10000 to just a few hundred over a year or two from it's introduction.

Zorya · 26-11-2018 2:57pm

Grayson wrote: »

Direct provision is horrible and should only be short term. A hotel is fine for a couple of months but as a longer term solution it's terrible. And then we have situations like when a mother was denied food for her sick child.

You think that the hotel accommodation is only going to be for a couple of months? And then where will the people go? There seems to be a shortage of rentals all over, at least my children say it is so, and when I am looking for accommdation for my husband who has to travel around the country to work it is very difficult to find suitable places that are not astronomically priced. So, the refugees will likely be long-term in the hotels - that's the reality.

This hotel thing is as a result of Ireland agreeing to take in 5000 refugees from the European wave - that would be 40 small towns/villages taking 80 - 100, because there will probably be more in Dublin. It will be easier to handle if this is families, couples with children. It will be harder for small villages or towns to cope if it is primarily young single men. As much as we might like to make young lads seem cuddly and lost, hormonal, horny lads couped up in remote villages of several hundred native people in the wilds is not a recipe for success. It is nothing to do with their nationality, colour, refugee status etc., it is biology. Put a hundred Irish lads into a small village in some remote country and some of the same issues would arise, although I will qualify that later.

In areas where there are high levels of migratory populations of male workers, such as for example the tar sands, or shale fields in the US, there is an increase in sexual violence locally. And that is from people who are busy all day at work - what would it be like where there are young fellas hanging around with feck all to do?

Plus - and this is the qualifying factor (above) and I don't care how anyone frowns at this! - the countries many refugees come from do not have high opinions of women culturally speaking. They are regarded as chattels, to be married off young, maybe have FGM done to them, be chaperoned or be fair game, etc. It is just silly not to be frank about the potential problems.

I did not specifically condemn the arson because I presumed any right-minded person would take that condemnation as a given. It should be remembered that hostels have been burned down in Europe with the refugees inside! The lesson to be learned is that local people have to be consulted and listened to - we are not economic units to be shuffled around, or have changes foisted upon us. But that is exactly what happens.

And these refugees are also regarded as economic units by the powers that be, future workers (cheap labour) and consumers. It is not mercy or pity that motivates the people at the top - if they gave one single feck they would stop arms dealing and engage in fair trade with poorer nations. Then maybe these people would have a chance at a decent life.

Grayson · 26-11-2018 2:58pm

Rennaws wrote: »

I agree but there's a whole world of a difference between saying you'll give up a room to a family of Syrian refugees and then actually doing it.

I also do quite a bit of charity work but I wouldn't have immigrants of any variety living in my home.

I completely understand. I would but that's the person I am. I understand people who would help in other-ways. I have a friend who's an english teacher and she volunteers two nights a week to teach english to refugees. Neither of us could do that because we don't have the skills (I'm assuming you don't. You might, I don't know so if I'm wrong, sorry).

Likewise people have different comfort levels.

Honestly though, we need to do more for refugees. Someone coming from syria for example doesn't just need 3 meals a day and a bed. many need counseling because of what they've gone through.

armaghlad · 26-11-2018 3:00pm

Kivaro wrote: »

I have yet to meet an Irish man or woman, who gets up early and commutes to a job where after a long week of work they are just about able to pay for the mortgage/rent/child care costs/healthcare/insurance/household bills etc., and doesn't mind if a portion of the taxes that they pay will be used to support Nigerian or Algerian welfare tourists (i.e. skipped other countries to get to our overly generous welfare state).
Those Irish people I've met who espouse supporting the world's needy by bringing them to Ireland, have never worked real jobs or just do not work.

It’s funny. There are lots of things my taxes pay for that I really don’t care for, in fact, I downright resent.

The main one would be the money that goes towards the English royal family, the biggest benefit frauds in the UK. As I live in the north, I also have to pay taxes which fund the British military, which is quite sickening, only last week I watched a colleague call in to work before going to a high court inquest (almost 50 years later) to find out why the government shot his grandmother in the back.

I also pay taxes to fund things like the Orange Order and uniforms and instruments for loyalist flute bands. It wasn’t that long ago either that I helped fund the union jacks and red white and blue bunting that went up in my (nationalist) town centre.

I pay taxes for infrastructure, when a quick look at a road/rail map of NI shows that the Unionist dominated “east of the Bann” is where all major infrastructure is located (they want a bridge to Scotland which is virtually impossible, but won’t build a motorway to Dublin from Derry or Belfast).

So I can laugh at people in the free state when they wet themselves over 100 Syrians or whatever coming here and at the same time use this as justification for a suspected arson attack. It actually wouldn’t surprise me either if the culprits were boards.ie contributors. Such a right-wing site if the poll is anything to go by

Grayson · 26-11-2018 3:06pm

Zorya wrote: »

You think that the hotel accommodation is only going to be for a couple of months?

No, I said should be, not will be.

As for the rest, you can make blanket judgement about people all you want but that's not relevant. You're making a judgement about a load of people, based on your own bias and without any regard for an individual.

Biology eh? What you're trying to say is that men from syria are all predators / potential predators and it's because of biology. I'm going to let one of the alt-righters take that one. Should be funny to see them argue with you about it.

Anyone else here want to argue this? Place a man in a strange town and he becomes a bit rapey?

Zorya · 26-11-2018 3:16pm

Grayson wrote: »

No, I said should be, not will be.

As for the rest, you can make blanket judgement about people all you want but that's not relevant. You're making a judgement about a load of people, based on your own bias and without any regard for an individual.

Biology eh? What you're trying to say is that men from syria are all predators / potential predators and it's because of biology. I'm going to let one of the alt-righters take that one. Should be funny to see them argue with you about it.

Anyone else here want to argue this? Place a man in a strange town and he becomes a bit rapey?

Yeah, cos that's what I said :rolleyes:

Place a load of young fellas into a small village, with nothing to do all day, no family structures or disciplines, and from cultures that do not have the same attitude towards women and girls and yes, there are likely to be sexual violence issues. Read a bit about what has been happening in Sweden, Germany, France, Italy for the last few years, before you come along saying I am unreasonably biased. There are cultural issues - fact. To deny and obfuscate and shoot people down who say so is the height of authoritarian naivety.

Grayson · 26-11-2018 3:23pm

Zorya wrote: »

Yeah, cos that's what I said :rolleyes:

Place a load of young fellas into a small village, with nothing to do all day, no family structures or disciplines, and from cultures that do not have the same attitude towards women and girls and yes, there are likely to be sexual violence issues. Read a bit about what has been happening in Sweden, Germany, France, Italy for the last few years, before you come along saying I am unreasonably biased. There are cultural issues - fact. To deny and obfuscate and shoot people down who say so is the height of authoritarian naivety.

You specifically mentioned shale fields. And you said that if you put a hundred irish lads into a similar situation the same thing would happen. Now you did go on a bit of a ramble about muslims but your statement that if you put 100 Irish guys into a village you'd get rapes still stands.

Graces7 · 26-11-2018 3:23pm

Zorya wrote: »

Yeah, cos that's what I said :rolleyes:

Place a load of young fellas into a small village, with nothing to do all day, no family structures or disciplines, and from cultures that do not have the same attitude towards women and girls and yes, there are likely to be sexual violence issues. Read a bit about what has been happening in Sweden, Germany, France, Italy for the last few years, before you come along saying I am unreasonably biased. There are cultural issues - fact. To deny and obfuscate and shoot people down who say so is the height of authoritarian naivety.

are you saying then that Irish men are never rapists? that is clearly not so so what cultural issue is to blame for that?

_Kaiser_ · 26-11-2018 3:27pm

I don't agree with arson and whoever is behind it needs to be caught and prosecuted, but I think that it's pretty clear at this stage that - despite what the mainstream media coverage would have us believe - a lot of people in this country (particularly where these centres are being established) have concerns about this current approach by Government.

In all of these threads and reports (which is more evidence that it's a significant issue to many), I have yet to read a valid reason for taking in dozens/hundreds/thousands of unskilled economic migrants (the "refugee" tag is quite often a smokescreen given where they're coming from) who can't support themselves, having nothing to offer from a employment perspective, and who bring the same (by our standards) outdated, incompatible cultural and religious beliefs they claim to be fleeing with them.

We didn't cause the problems in their homelands, we already (as a country and individually) give hundreds of millions of euro annually in foreign aid to support people like them, and we don't have the resources, infrastructure or responsibility to solve all their problems. We have more than enough problems in the country as it is without importing others.

Even where genuine actual refugees are concerned, we should only be supporting them until they can go home - none of this resettling them here permanently and inviting all their relatives to join them and if they fail the asylum review, they should get one appeal, and then deported if rejected again.

If the Government and media and noisy twitter types keep ignoring the concerns and opinions of the people, then we WILL end up with a lot more social and security problems than a burned out hotel. We've seen it already throughout Europe and it's idiotic to think it'll be any different in Ireland.

Zorya · 26-11-2018 3:34pm

Grayson wrote: »

You specifically mentioned shale fields. And you said that if you put a hundred irish lads into a similar situation the same thing would happen. Now you did go on a bit of a ramble about muslims but your statement that if you put 100 Irish guys into a village you'd get rapes still stands.

There are very high levels of rape around shale fields. Fact. Regarding Irish lads we have a different culture re women, thankfully, although there are areas in Australia where Irish are no longer welcome due to bad behaviour, drunkeness, even robbery.

I spent a few years traveling around India, Turkey and North Africa. It was the local women, girls, hostel-keepers, restaurant owners, hoteliers, etc who would warn foreign women regularly to be careful. It was a constant feature of daily life - the warnings, the gropings, the constant unwanted attention from groups of men and boys, and then in some cases the rapes, of women I met along the way. The local women stayed off the streets unless necessary to go out and usually went in groups or with male relations. There are great people in these places, but there are massive cultural differences that cause huge problems - you can deny them all you like and accuse me of whatever, but it is a fact I have seen again and again with my own eyes.

Grayson · 26-11-2018 3:41pm

Zorya wrote: »

There are very high levels of rape around shale fields. Fact. Regarding Irish lads we have a different culture re women, thankfully, although there are areas in Australia where Irish are no longer welcome due to bad behaviour, drunkeness, even robbery.

I spent a few years traveling around India, Turkey and North Africa. It was the local women, girls, hostel-keepers, restaurant owners, hoteliers, etc who would warn foreign women regularly to be careful. It was a constant feature of daily life - the warnings, the gropings, the constant unwanted attention from groups of men and boys, and then in some cases the rapes, of women I met along the way. The local women stayed off the streets unless necessary to go out and usually went in groups or with male relations. There are great people in these places, but there are massive cultural differences that cause huge problems - you can deny them all you like and accuse me of whatever, but it is a fact I have seen again and again with my own eyes.

But you said put 100 irish lads in a place and there'd be rapes. Are you backpedaling on that now? And the population of shale fields aren't from the middle east.

Gravelly · 26-11-2018 3:47pm

Grayson wrote: »

But you said put 100 irish lads in a place and there'd be rapes. Are you backpedaling on that now? And the population of shale fields aren't from the middle east.

Why don't you argue the merits or otherwise of that posters actual posts, rather than this silly posturing? It is making you look ridiculous, and slightly hysterical.

Zorya · 26-11-2018 3:47pm

Graces7 wrote: »

are you saying then that Irish men are never rapists? that is clearly not so so what cultural issue is to blame for that?

People are really playing the Oh My Gosh wide eyed did you dare say that? card. I am not falling for it. Because it is politically correct bullsh1t.

58% of all sex offenders convicted in Sweden in the past 5 years were foreign born. 58% !!!! How much more in your face do you want the facts?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45269764

Zorya · 26-11-2018 3:53pm

Grayson wrote: »

But you said put 100 irish lads in a place and there'd be rapes. Are you backpedaling on that now? And the population of shale fields aren't from the middle east.

I actually don't think there would be as many rapes potentially because culturally Irish men do have a level of respect for women that does not view them as chattels or as fair game if unaccompanied. So, to that extent it was a poor analogy on my behalf. But there probably would be some increase in social problems, like drunkeness or vandalism or anti-social behaviour, because cooping young lads up in a remote location with almost nothing to do all day and night, at the best of times, is not a good idea.

But you conveniently ignore the points i have made about levels of sexual violence actually on the ground in these places, and the crime stats as they are showing up in Europe since migration. So now that I have back pedalled on that point, deal with the others.

PlaneSpeeking · 26-11-2018 4:23pm

Graces7 wrote: »

are you saying then that Irish men are never rapists? that is clearly not so so what cultural issue is to blame for that?

I think you know full well there is a vast difference between a country like ours where sadly people can be victims of rape - and a culture/religion where women are seen as fair game.

CF: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6429423/Woman-35-raped-undergoing-surgery-haemorrhoids-hospital-Pakistan.html

Sick sick people.

joe40 · 26-11-2018 4:31pm

With the level of scaremongering on this thread, it is not surprising some thugs did this despicable act in Moville. The heartening thing is the response of the locals in totally condemning this act, there is still decency left in this country.

PlaneSpeeking · 26-11-2018 4:31pm

joe40 wrote: »

With the level of scaremongering on this thread, it is not surprising some thugs did this despicable act in Moville. The heartening thing is the response of the locals in totally condemning this act, there is still decency left in this country.

Scaremongering is stoking up fear where none need exist.

This is not that.

Zorya · 26-11-2018 4:47pm

If these places are so desperate that young men are fleeing for their lives, risking themselves across desert and sea to escape some barbarity or horror, why are they leaving their mothers and sisters behind them?

These are mostly economic migrants. If they have qualifications for positions we need workers for, then let them apply through the relevant channels, just like I would have to do if I wanted to go to Canada or Australia or America. Economic migrants are not entitled to be housed, fed, given money or welfare in any country they arrive in. They support themselves by working. That's the way economic migration goes.

Refugees fleeing war or danger en famille is a completely different story and it is sinister that any equivalence between the two is being made by the government. It actually places those true refugees at a disadvantage to be competing against what are basically chancers.

Odhinn · 26-11-2018 4:51pm

Zorya wrote: »

If these places are so desperate that young men are fleeing for their lives, risking themselves across desert and sea to escape some barbarity or horror, why are they leaving their mothers and sisters behind them?

..............

Men always go first and bring the others after.

Gravelly · 26-11-2018 4:57pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Men always go first and bring the others after.

:rolleyes:

In every other conflict in history, the men fought on until the women and children could escape. Somehow our new "refugees" have turned that on it's head!

MemphisBelle1 · 26-11-2018 5:06pm

joe40 wrote: »

With the level of scaremongering on this thread, it is not surprising some thugs did this despicable act in Moville. The heartening thing is the response of the locals in totally condemning this act, there is still decency left in this country.

I'm sure there was a Joe40 saying this in Rochdale 50 years ago

Odhinn · 26-11-2018 5:09pm

Gravelly wrote: »

:rolleyes:

In every other conflict in history, the men fought on until the women and children could escape. Somehow our new "refugees" have turned that on it's head!

You're confusing being a member of the male population with being a member of one or other of the conflicting parties. In the American war of independence for instance, a good 40% of the population remained neutral on the whole issue.

And of course there are others coming from areas other than Syria.

Gravelly · 26-11-2018 5:14pm

Odhinn wrote: »

You're confusing being a member of the male population with being a member of one or other of the conflicting parties. In the American war of independence for instance, a good 40% of the population remained neutral on the whole issue.

And of course there are others coming from areas other than Syria.

No I'm not. You said:

Men always go first and bring the others after.

Which is patently untrue, regardless of involvement in a conflict (which the vast majority of the "refugees" coming here aren't - they are economic migrants, who should have no right to asylum). In every other conflict in history, the men sent the women and children to safety, they didn't run off and let them fend for themselves in the "conflict zones".

Odhinn · 26-11-2018 5:31pm

Gravelly wrote: »

No I'm not. You said:

Which is patently untrue, regardless of involvement in a conflict (which the vast majority of the "refugees" coming here aren't - they are economic migrants, who should have no right to asylum). In every other conflict in history, the men sent the women and children to safety, they didn't run off and let them fend for themselves in the "conflict zones".

I'd say you need to read up on the subject

https://www.nap.edu/read/5985/chapter/9#301

http://time.com/4122186/syrian-refugees-donald-trump-young-men/

Gravelly · 26-11-2018 5:39pm

Odhinn wrote: »

I'd say you need to read up on the subject

https://www.nap.edu/read/5985/chapter/9#301

http://time.com/4122186/syrian-refugees-donald-trump-young-men/

Nice try.

Neither of those links back up your assertion - at least the first one doesn't - the second appears to be hundreds of pages long, which I have no intention of reading to prove you wrong.

There is no conflict in history where the men fled to safety, leaving the women and children to fend for themselves.

Odhinn · 26-11-2018 5:44pm

Gravelly wrote: »

Nice try.

Neither of those links back up your assertion - at least the first one doesn't - the second appears to be hundreds of pages long, which I have no intention of reading to prove you wrong.

There is no conflict in history where the men fled to safety, leaving the women and children to fend for themselves.

You're mischarecterising the whole thing, tbh. And again, not all are coming from Syria.

Gravelly · 26-11-2018 5:46pm

Odhinn wrote: »

You're mischarecterising the whole thing, tbh. And again, not all are coming from Syria.

I'm mischaracterising? Physician, heal thyself.

I didn't mention Syria, so that's yet another of your strawmen.

malinheader · 26-11-2018 6:20pm

joe40 wrote: »

With the level of scaremongering on this thread, it is not surprising some thugs did this despicable act in Moville. The heartening thing is the response of the locals in totally condemning this act, there is still decency left in this country.

And the disheartening thing about this is how many of the locals will be arguing among themselves now. A majority feared to open there mouth incase there classed as being racist and others welcoming them with open arms not bothered what other people in the community feel. This is a total disaster putting 100 strangers into a community of 1300. It ain't going to work.

Geuze · 26-11-2018 6:23pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

A bit unrelated to the suspected arson, but I'm interested about anybody who doesn't find the idea of Georgian, Brazilian, or Pakistan refugees in Donegal particularly strange, how they would feel about a hypothetical scenario of Irish refugees in.. Singapore?

Strange or not strange?

Indeed.

I don't think these are genuine refugees, though, are they?

I think they are asylum-seekers?

Most AS are bogus, this is well known.

Geuze · 26-11-2018 6:26pm

Grayson wrote: »

The guy who did this, and anyone who think he was right to do it, are complete scum.

I condemn this arson act.

I also condemn the hundreds/thousands of bogus AS who enter Ireland illegally.

Many enter from the UK.

Bear in mind that far from fleeing persecution, they have arrived from the UK, where they have over-stayed their visa.

WinnyThePoo · 26-11-2018 6:33pm

Geuze wrote: »

RandomName2 wrote: »

A bit unrelated to the suspected arson, but I'm interested about anybody who doesn't find the idea of Georgian, Brazilian, or Pakistan refugees in Donegal particularly strange, how they would feel about a hypothetical scenario of Irish refugees in.. Singapore?

Strange or not strange?

Indeed.

I don't think these are genuine refugees, though, are they?

I think they are asylum-seekers?

Most AS are bogus, this is well known.

Do you have data to back up your claims?

I have no doubt you have data to back your opinion.

Odhinn · 26-11-2018 6:42pm

Gravelly wrote: »

I'm mischaracterising? Physician, heal thyself.

I didn't mention Syria, so that's yet another of your strawmen.

You keep mentioning conflict and Syria is a conflict that has generated millions of refugees. If you want to avoid being mistaken you might be more specific in where you're referring to.

Mr. teddywinkles · 26-11-2018 6:44pm

Grayson wrote: »

Direct provision is horrible and should only be short term. A hotel is fine for a couple of months but as a longer term solution it's terrible. And then we have situations like when a mother was denied food for her sick child.

Yea your right. Genuine refugee stay. If not deportation straight away. Your absolutely right.problem solved.

Mr. teddywinkles · 26-11-2018 6:55pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Men always go first and bring the others after.

So hold on your fleeing for your lives. Hey woman. You stay here with the kids I'll go ahead and scope out the place first.

Odhinn · 26-11-2018 6:58pm

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

So hold on your fleeing for your lives. Hey woman. You stay here with the kids I'll go ahead and scope out the place first.

or', for instance, 'get a dodgy boat across the med, then try and organise a safer route for the rest of the family to get across'.

Mr. teddywinkles · 26-11-2018 7:01pm

Odhinn wrote: »

or', for instance, 'get a dodgy boat across the med, then try and organise a safer route for the rest of the family to get across'.

Well if your that badly off. Sitting in a rubber dinghy in the middle of the med is the least of your worries.

MemphisBelle1 · 26-11-2018 7:06pm

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

So hold on your fleeing for your lives. Hey woman. You stay here with the kids I'll go ahead and scope out the place first.

lol

jmayo · 26-11-2018 7:35pm

Shenshen wrote: »

I don't know - given Brazil's history, and given it's current possible political future, I would not be fast to doubt that there may well be people living there genuinely fearing for their lives and safety because of their political convictions.

So there are some from Brazil that may be classed as deserving asylum.
Then we have of course noddy's favourites the Syrians.
Then add in Libyans, Somalis, Afghans, Iraqis, Eritreans, now the Yemenis, Congolese, etc, etc.

And that is only those from war torn countries.
What about the ones from Nigeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Kosovo, Chad, Ghana, Senegal, Togo, Ethiopia, Mali, etc, etc, etc

Ehh big question is where do we draw the line?
No one ever seems to want to answer that big question.

I guess it is easier to just shout racist. :rolleyes:

Shenshen wrote: »

In my experience, cultures and religions can change amazingly fast. They can go from being highly conservative and restrictive (see Ireland in the 60s) to very open and welcoming (see Ireland now). Unfortunately, they can also change very fast in the other direction. If you compare Iran in the 1960s to now, the development was just as fast if not faster, but giong the complete opposite direction.

Either way, they're certainly not immutable,

The liberalisation tends to be a slow process over time, but the flip to the right conservative can be quite fast and usually in response to the population being pushed.

It took Ireland 30 to 40 years for the church to lose it's hold and much of that was down to education and the world becoming a much smaller place with more outside influences.
It took Iran a mere couple of months to go backwards.

Why?
Why have right wing groups suddenly gained in popularity in Europe over the last 10 years when they were in the doldrums since WWII even with the spectre of the communist leftist monolith in the East.

Mongfinder General wrote: »

This has been coming a long time. Dumping more than 100 people from anywhere in a town situated in a conservative county that voted no to abortion and gay marriage is going to elicit a reaction.

Direct provision will just move some place else. It’s lucky for those people that they were not already housed in the hotel. As I understand from our media, the owner was present when the fire started. So whoever was responsible for this clearly has no compunction about endangering life.

And the owners of these establishments have no compunction about screwing up towns and communities, and indeed the ones placed in their hostels, so that they can make money.

We now have an asylum industry, keeping many in work, all funded by taxpayers.
The hotel owners are just the latest to add to the solicitors, barristers, NGOs, fundraisers, etc.

Gravelly wrote: »

Odhinn wrote: »

Men always go first and bring the others after.

:rolleyes:

In every other conflict in history, the men fought on until the women and children could escape. Somehow our new "refugees" have turned that on it's head!

You are wasting your time arguing or even trying to debate with that poster.

Anyone that has ever seen footage or images of the World War 2 refugees columns snaking across Europe, the images of refugees fleeing conflicts in Africa like Mali, Solmalia, Ethiopia, Rwanda, Zaire, Congo or in places like Vietnam, Cambodia, etc will always notice the high volume of women, children, the old.

Not fooking young men of fighting age.

Only a moron or the highly disingenuous would claim that is the norm for refugees.

Spanish Eyes · 26-11-2018 7:52pm

how do these people get to Dublin Airport? How did they pay for it etc?

Could that be a question that is non racial, just factual?

Car expert · 26-11-2018 7:59pm

They will become practicing homosexuals as men do when they are isolated and locked up.

ToddyDoody · 26-11-2018 9:15pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The Germans put a lot of their migrants in small rural towns. It's handy because when the backward rural folk complain about their crimes, the metropolitan liberals can just tar them as racists.

Charming.

Richard Hillman · 26-11-2018 9:17pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

how do these people get to Dublin Airport? How did they pay for it etc?

Could that be a question that is non racial, just factual?

It's a lot cheaper than paying a people smuggler to drift out 20 odd miles off Libya to be collected. Which has always made me wonder, why do those people on the boats not just get a flight to Europe? It's cheaper and a hell of a lot safer.

Donegal Asylum Centre Torched

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