M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

All these are Dublin (area) projects, yes, but they represent the absolute bare minimum necessary to stop the capital from imploding under the weight of extreme neglect and turning into another Metro Manila. None of these projects (Newlands Cross, M7 widening, Luas Cross City) are game-changers.

All of the current railway lines including all DARTs, both Luas lines, Maynooth and Drogheda commuter services are over-subscribed, massively so in many cases. Even the Kildare commuter has overcrowding problems and it has the added disadvantage that the trip through the Phoenix Park Tunnel and around the city adds at least half an hour each way to peoples commutes. The M50 works most of the time but in the commuting hours it's a car park. The DART between Bray and Greystones is single track, Greystones is growing massively but it has very few trains (owing to the single track) and the lousy single line is about to fall into the sea in the next 10 years or so.

And for most of this, there's no plan to fix it. "Metro Link" won't start construction for years, even then, it won't include the Green Line Luas, thanks to that gob****e Eamon Ryan who got the southern half of ML cancelled. The M50 probably will not be upgraded any more. There's no plan to upgrade the red line luas. There will be an order for some new rail carriages, maybe, and there is a plan to electrify the Maynooth, Hazelhatch and Drogheda lines, but that's it. Dart Underground, which would be a massive game-changer, isn't even on the agenda and will not be for at least 10 years. The mess on the DART/Rosslare line between Bray and Greystones? Nothing. Oh and that's before we even get to the accommodation crisis, there's nowhere for anyone to live, if you had a cupboard to spare in Dublin you could list it on daft and get 2 people to share it in about 5 minutes because the alternative is homelessness. Again, there's no plan to fix that except to give developers planning permission for "boutique co-living spaces" at €1200 per month per tenant.

So when you say that Cork is being neglected, you're right. But the problem is not limited to Cork, it's nationwide.

SeanW wrote: »

All these are Dublin (area) projects, yes, but they represent the absolute bare minimum necessary to stop the capital from imploding under the weight of extreme neglect and turning into another Metro Manila. None of these projects (Newlands Cross, M7 widening, Luas Cross City) are game-changers.

All of the current railway lines including all DARTs, both Luas lines, Maynooth and Drogheda commuter services are over-subscribed, massively so in many cases. Even the Kildare commuter has overcrowding problems and it has the added disadvantage that the trip through the Phoenix Park Tunnel and around the city adds at least half an hour each way to peoples commutes. The M50 works most of the time but in the commuting hours it's a car park. The DART between Bray and Greystones is single track, Greystones is growing massively but it has very few trains (owing to the single track) and the lousy single line is about to fall into the sea in the next 10 years or so.

And for most of this, there's no plan to fix it. "Metro Link" won't start construction for years, even then, it won't include the Green Line Luas, thanks to that gob****e Eamon Ryan who got the southern half of ML cancelled. The M50 probably will not be upgraded any more. There's no plan to upgrade the red line luas. There will be an order for some new rail carriages, maybe, and there is a plan to electrify the Maynooth, Hazelhatch and Drogheda lines, but that's it. Dart Underground, which would be a massive game-changer, isn't even on the agenda and will not be for at least 10 years. The mess on the DART/Rosslare line between Bray and Greystones? Nothing. Oh and that's before we even get to the accommodation crisis, there's nowhere for anyone to live, if you had a cupboard to spare in Dublin you could list it on daft and get 2 people to share it in about 5 minutes because the alternative is homelessness. Again, there's no plan to fix that except to give developers planning permission for "boutique co-living spaces" at €1200 per month per tenant.

So when you say that Cork is being neglected, you're right. But the problem is not limited to Cork, it's nationwide.

You're right on all of the above. Dublin's sustainable transport should be getting way more investment.

But go through the reasons why Dublin's infrastructure is creaking at the seams. It's the "only city of size in Ireland", and "the only place with proper infrastructure". Like London, it totally dominates a large section of the country. The Government commissioned reports into what should be done and the answer was effectively "you need to address this by building up a counterweight to Dublin". They did no such thing, rather it's "steady as she goes".

With the National Spatial Strategy in fairness, the idea was that some Government departments could be run from cities other than Dublin. What we got instead was "all of Ireland deserves a Department".

So anyway, my only point is that there are people in Government funded bodies who are fully based in Dublin, who think of Cork as "some town down the country" and Limerick as "some smaller town down the country". They're not thinking of them in terms of "the strategic growth areas" and definitely not thinking of them as a single homogeneous entity/bloc.

CMATS and LMATS should be considered strategic national issues with the criticality of something like the National Broadband plan, but they're effectively considered local issues.

Look at the NTA website:
Strategic Planning is broken down into "GDA Strategies/Plans" and "Non-GDA Strategies/Plans". The "Transport Investment" section of the website consists of the following: Dublin Metrolink, Dublin BusConnects, Dublin DART Expansion, Dublin Luas Green Line, and three other sections for "all of Ireland". It basically consists of Dublin and Ireland. It's my point in a nutshell, the whole website.

It means more creaking infrastructure for Dublin to be honest, because it's a vicious cycle.

SeanW wrote: »

You could be right, but ultimately your concern could be like two bald men fighting over a hair comb.

Yeah I accept all of your post and like the analogy.

Theres is also a camera before the turn off to Blarney coming from the mallow side and there is another one out by Clyda Rover GAA pitch coming from mallow side to Cork.

years of pathetic infrastructure spending on desperately needed projects for CORK AND DUBLIN! "no money" "no money"

but 300,000,000 odd million to send up in smoke every year on the christmas welfare bonus...

https://www.thesun.ie/money/4800396/christmas-social-welfare-payments-paid-december/

Reputable Rog wrote: »

And the Annual Welfare Rant makes it’s customary appearance in infrastructure threads.

swallows an obscene amount, I think its relevant, when the welfare is world class and the infrastructure is a farce!

tonc76 wrote: »

300 trillion :eek: the boom is certainly back

nah I dont know, years more gone by and will we actually see M20 or Dublin metro etc delivered? Maybe...

Idbatterim wrote: »

swallows an obscene amount, I think its relevant, when the welfare is world class and the infrastructure is a farce!

Very easy scapegoat welfare dependants when the real story is that this government like every other FG government will not spend on infrastructure, no matter how healthy the national finances are.

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Very easy scapegoat welfare dependants when the real story is that this government like every other FG government will not spend on infrastructure, no matter how healthy the national finances are.

Leo Varadkar's spin concerning this road - that we have to build the whole lot at one time, or not at all, and that the cost of the whole lot is an unaffordable billion euro - is particularly nauseating.

My response is this - Mallow to Croom. It's the most dangerous stretch and it's only 40km.

I think (could be wrong!) that borrowing rates from europe are at an all-time low too, so getting PPP's in place would probably be easier now than in years gone by. I don't think that money is the sole issue, by far.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

TBH too many just cannot understand that his road has to be upgraded. Even if the the Cahir/Mitcheltown's option is chosen you will need to upgrade this to either upgraded 1-1.5 carrigeway or motorway. There s not awhone pile in difference in cost.
I am not sure if there is any country in Europe where the second and third cities are not connected by motorway

Probably just Western Europe but it’s saying a lot that I cannot say for certain.

Transnistria or Nagorno-Karabakh perhaps?

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Is it based in North Cork? Never knew!

Based in Rathcool.

not been there long