Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

salmocab · 27-08-2019 8:36am

Faugheen wrote: »

Losing this game by 12-15 points you can make the arguments for match practice etc.

Losing by over 40 there’s a problem. They’ve played one game more than us.

Sorry lads, but the excuses being made are baffling. Yes they get some leeway in terms of where they are in the schedule of games compared to England, but not 40 points worth.

I just pointed out it wasn’t a real test match it was a pre season game, I made no excuse at all.

salmocab · 27-08-2019 8:38am

99problems1 wrote: »

Of course they are!

1. There's ranking points at play.
2. There's world cup squad places up for grabs.
3. We have 2 more games left before we play a world cup, once every 4 years and the biggest tournament in a players lives.

None of those things change that it’s a warm up game.

27-08-2019 8:41am

Faugheen wrote: »

Losing this game by 12-15 points you can make the arguments for match practice etc.

Losing by over 40 there’s a problem.

Meh, once you have lost any momentum and are down 2 or 3 scores the heads drop. I don't think in the context of the weekend there is much difference between a 15 point defeat and a 40 point defeat.

People are making excuses, don't get me wrong, but some of those excuses are valid and provide context.

I'm not on board with the panic at the moment. Two more displays like the weekend and sure, that's extremely alarming and my expectations for Japan will plummet.

But two good games against Wales and supporters will be less concerned. I still think we're going to struggle against the heavier forward packs like England and SA and I'm not sure there is much we can do about that, but we've a good team that will I hope switch it on just in time.

Gatland appears to have done us a favour and is peaking a weaker team this weekend. I think we'll go full strength this week anyway and will see how things look before the final game at home.

99problems1 · 27-08-2019 8:43am

salmocab wrote: »

None of those things change that it’s a warm up game.

And what was the match v New Zealand?

27-08-2019 8:44am

99problems1 wrote: »

Of course they are!

1. There's ranking points at play.
2. There's world cup squad places up for grabs.
3. We have 2 more games left before we play a world cup, once every 4 years and the biggest tournament in a players lives.

This is spurious and has a whiff of trolling given the shade certain quarters like to throw at 'test friendlies'.

World Cup warm up games serve a specific purpose in the rugby calendar. They aren't treated as full tests by coaches and often highly experimental combinations are put out to play.

The team Wales appear likely to play this weekend will highlight this fact.

salmocab · 27-08-2019 8:45am

99problems1 wrote: »

And what was the match v New Zealand?

A November international.

aloooof · 27-08-2019 8:45am

99problems1 wrote: »

It was a test, just like the game v New Zealand.

You seem to be building up the loss to England as a test match. While equally panning the wins vs NZ, SA, Aus as a "test" match.

99problems1 wrote: »

I put as much weight in those "tests" [wins vs NZ, SA, Aus] as todays defeat. if he's getting credit for those then he needs to add record defeat in Twickenham there too.

RobbieRuns · 27-08-2019 8:48am

It was a test match !

They did get test cap for playing that game. Warm up my a**e.

Every time you get a cap it should be the same level of intensity, not a "warm up" game. You warm up in training and before a test match. It was England in Twickenham, 80k people in a stadium watching, millions on TV. If you can't motivate yourself to play in those games then you're in the wrong business.

irishbucsfan · 27-08-2019 8:58am

Faugheen wrote: »

Losing this game by 12-15 points you can make the arguments for match practice etc.

Losing by over 40 there’s a problem

What on earth is this claim based on?

errlloyd · 27-08-2019 9:09am

England lost 36-0 in the pool stages of the world cup once.

They were arguably unlucky not to win the final.

Burkie1203 · 27-08-2019 9:15am

Faugheen wrote: »

Losing this game by 12-15 points you can make the arguments for match practice etc.

Losing by over 40 there’s a problem. They’ve played one game more than us.

Sorry lads, but the excuses being made are baffling. Yes they get some leeway in terms of where they are in the schedule of games compared to England, but not 40 points worth.

England were able to rock up v Wales a few weeks ago and put in a decent performance and scored 33 points straight off the back of pre season. And it was against a decent Welsh XV.

A similar score on saturday, 33-19, and that's expected. To be shipping 57 points, lineout not functioning, some big name players not performing (after a middling 6n) and woeful defence is a lot of areas to fix

I don't buy the "nobody played well" narrative given how the first 20-25 min went. Some players put in decent performances but were let down by others going missing (POM, Stander), some not upto it (Kleyn in particular). No point picking Kleyn for his power if it's ineffective. Once England upped it we had no answers, again

Tactically we looked clueless. The "not showing our hand" thing is nonsense too. England have shown exactly how they will play. Even a rudimentary gameplan complimented by a half decent lineout and the scoreline would have been more in line with the England v Wales game. But we were just shovelling the ball wide aimlessly. England just put 10 or 11 men in a line and we had no idea or how to get through, over or around them.

If Scotland have any brain cells at all they will beat us. They also have two games and while they are nothing special they at least dug in at the weekend to grind it out.

Tikki Wang Wang · 27-08-2019 9:40am

salmocab wrote: »

I just pointed out it wasn’t a real test match it was a pre season game, I made no excuse at all.

I see the Joe-Bots are on the prowl.....

Shefwedfan · 27-08-2019 10:01am

RobbieRuns wrote: »

It was a test match !

They did get test cap for playing that game. Warm up my a**e.

Every time you get a cap it should be the same level of intensity, not a "warm up" game. You warm up in training and before a test match. It was England in Twickenham, 80k people in a stadium watching, millions on TV. If you can't motivate yourself to play in those games then you're in the wrong business.

That's impossible

If they played with the same level of intensity in a warm up game the risk of injury would be hugely increased

You don't just turn up after weeks off training and are in the same condition as when you left at end of season. That's why players have preseason and preseason games. This is all monitored by the staff and they have a date in mind to have the players in peak condition. For the Irish players this is the Scotland game. Not some match against England which is a month out.

RobbieRuns · 27-08-2019 10:08am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

That's impossible

If they played with the same level of intensity in a warm up game the risk of injury would be hugely increased

You don't just turn up after weeks off training and are in the same condition as when you left at end of season. That's why players have preseason and preseason games. This is all monitored by the staff and they have a date in mind to have the players in peak condition. For the Irish players this is the Scotland game. Not some match against England which is a month out.

Disagree, in fact I would say that by not playing at the same level of intensity as you suggest that you would have greater risk of injury. It was a test match, if it was a "warm up game" as you suggest, then they should not get international caps. It should be deemed an international friendly.

DelBoy Trotter · 27-08-2019 10:12am

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Disagree, in fact I would say that by not playing at the same level of intensity as you suggest that you would have greater risk of injury.

Agreed. When you are holding back and playing at 70%, you are more likely to get injured

WeleaseWoderick · 27-08-2019 10:33am

The result and nature of the second half in particular is definitely worrying but I'd be holding off the panic until after the second Wales game.

If we're not seeing things going the right direction at that stage, it might point to a bigger underlying issue.

Nonsense though to suggest that the team should be in peak condition for the England game. They're professionals with a single goal at this point i.e. winning the World Cup. All training up to now will have been with that goal in mind and not towards putting in a full blooded win at all costs performance in Twickenham.

Podge_irl · 27-08-2019 10:36am

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Disagree, in fact I would say that by not playing at the same level of intensity as you suggest that you would have greater risk of injury. It was a test match, if it was a "warm up game" as you suggest, then they should not get international caps. It should be deemed an international friendly.

Perhaps it should be adjusted so that they do not get caps. I assume they have reasons, not least financial, for not doing so. Regardless, it is not by any stretch of the imagination a "proper" test match. It is not approached in the same manner - you do not spend a week in a training camp just before a match without tapering in normal scenarios. The players would not have been physically capable of playing to the same intensity as normal (though should have done a lot better than they did).

salmocab · 27-08-2019 10:39am

Tikki Wang Wang wrote: »

I see the Joe-Bots are on the prowl.....

Joe bot because I said it was an pre season game? I also said it wasn’t an excuse. It was a pants performance but it’s a pre season match nothing more.

Shefwedfan · 27-08-2019 10:43am

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Disagree, in fact I would say that by not playing at the same level of intensity as you suggest that you would have greater risk of injury. It was a test match, if it was a "warm up game" as you suggest, then they should not get international caps. It should be deemed an international friendly.

Sorry wrong word

They can play with 100% intensity but they are no where near 100% fit.....

I didn't see any players holding back in the tackle, they just seemed to be very leggy and meant they didn't get in position correctly and hence why the amount of missed tackle.....

Henry Ford III · 27-08-2019 10:48am

"Shefwedfan wrote: »

You don't just turn up after weeks off training and are in the same condition as when you left at end of season. That's why players have preseason and preseason games. This is all monitored by the staff and they have a date in mind to have the players in peak condition. For the Irish players this is the Scotland game. Not some match against England which is a month out.

Nonsense. The circumstances were near identical for the opposition.

Burkie1203 · 27-08-2019 10:48am

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

The result and nature of the second half in particular is definitely worrying but I'd be holding off the panic until after the second Wales game.

If we're not seeing things going the right direction at that stage, it might point to a bigger underlying issue.

Nonsense though to suggest that the team should be in peak condition for the England game. They're professionals with a single goal at this point i.e. winning the World Cup. All training up to now will have been with that goal in mind and not towards putting in a full blooded win at all costs performance in Twickenham.

I wasn't expecting the team to be humming. But I also wasn't expecting them to look like they only just met up after the summer break an hour before kick off on Saturday

England were able to look semi competent in their first game

99problems1 · 27-08-2019 10:50am

Lose by 40+ points....it's just a pre season nothing game!

But if we had won by 40+ points everyone would be claiming we're back to our best and that the 6N was just a blip!

Shefwedfan · 27-08-2019 10:51am

Burkie1203 wrote: »

I wasn't expecting the team to be humming. But I also wasn't expecting them to look like they only just met up after the summer break an hour before kick off on Saturday

England were able to look semi competent in their first game

I have talked to a number of England fans, they are are worried because they seem so far ahead of Ireland in terms of prep. Are they peaking too early is the concern. I think it was mentioned as well on the BBC? or maybe I was dreaming.

England are also a month out from playing any rugby in anger with just 1 game against Italy.....

Shefwedfan · 27-08-2019 10:53am

99problems1 wrote: »

Lose by 40+ points....it's just a pre season nothing game!

But if we had won by 40+ points everyone would be claiming we're back to our best and that the 6N was just a blip!

Personally I wouldn't have....

Win/lose/draw it is a preseason game.

The only concern I had was the combinations didnt seem to be working. That's it. But 2 games to see if that is still the case

Podge_irl · 27-08-2019 10:57am

99problems1 wrote: »

Lose by 40+ points....it's just a pre season nothing game!

But if we had won by 40+ points everyone would be claiming we're back to our best and that the 6N was just a blip!

You have essentially just described the exact opposite of reality.

27-08-2019 11:02am

99problems1 wrote: »

Lose by 40+ points....it's just a pre season nothing game!

But if we had won by 40+ points everyone would be claiming we're back to our best and that the 6N was just a blip!

Hit the nail on the head here. Fans are quick to react and get carried away. This thread is proving that.

salmocab · 27-08-2019 11:06am

99problems1 wrote: »

Lose by 40+ points....it's just a pre season nothing game!

But if we had won by 40+ points everyone would be claiming we're back to our best and that the 6N was just a blip!

What would you have said if they won by 40?

27-08-2019 11:18am

salmocab wrote: »

What would you have said if they won by 40?

He would have overreacted

Burkie1203 · 27-08-2019 11:21am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I have talked to a number of England fans, they are are worried because they seem so far ahead of Ireland in terms of prep. Are they peaking too early is the concern. I think it was mentioned as well on the BBC? or maybe I was dreaming.

England are also a month out from playing any rugby in anger with just 1 game against Italy.....

I was expecting Ireland to be where Wales where against England at Twickenham a few weeks ago. Not in worse shape then the 6n

England didn't peak at the weekend v Ireland. Not even close

Burkie1203 · 27-08-2019 11:23am

https://twitter.com/sineadkissane/status/1166287840575205377?s=19

is_that_so · 27-08-2019 11:24am

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Ryan and Zebo are not world class players

Zebo is flaky and a bit of a one trick pony at times and not a good defender. He went for the money. Rules are IRFU ones anyway.

kuang1 · 27-08-2019 11:28am

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/sineadkissane/status/1166287840575205377?s=19

V interesting... I wonder is this to do with Sexton's injury...

Get talking about it first rather than everyone panicking when he doesn't train today?

Henry Ford III · 27-08-2019 11:29am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I have talked to a number of England fans, they are are worried because they seem so far ahead of Ireland in terms of prep. Are they peaking too early is the concern. I think it was mentioned as well on the BBC? or maybe I was dreaming.

Of course you have.

daddy pig · 27-08-2019 11:30am

New Zealand were hammered 47-26 in their second last game before the world cup.

Australia were hammered 36-0 in their last game before the world cup.

Wales were beaten 33-19 in their fourth last game before the world cup.

Scotland were beaten 32-3 in their 3rd last game before the world cup.

It happens - Ireland played poorly and were beaten out the gate by England. Nobody is going to know whether anyone has peaked early or still getting up to speed for another 7 weeks.
The total overreaction and nonsense about these fixtures meaning the same as the Autumn internationals is embarrassing.

We win our next 2 matches against Wales and we will be the number 1 ranked team in the world going into the world cup. Would that be enough for everyone to say we "are back".

is_that_so · 27-08-2019 11:33am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I have talked to a number of England fans, they are are worried because they seem so far ahead of Ireland in terms of prep. Are they peaking too early is the concern. I think it was mentioned as well on the BBC? or maybe I was dreaming.

England are also a month out from playing any rugby in anger with just 1 game against Italy.....

They can get better as they've said themselves. The settled squad is what they have over everyone else they've played but they look in very good nick. They also have a tougher group to deal with but the question is will they be at their peak near the end of October. That's very hard to gauge and injuries and individual performances will affect them like every other team.

is_that_so · 27-08-2019 11:36am

daddy pig wrote: »

New Zealand were hammered 47-26 in their second last game before the world cup.

Australia were hammered 36-0 in their last game before the world cup.

Wales were beaten 33-19 in their fourth last game before the world cup.

Scotland were beaten 32-3 in their 3rd last game before the world cup.

It happens - Ireland played poorly and were beaten out the gate by England. Nobody is going to know whether anyone has peaked early or still getting up to speed for another 7 weeks.
The total overreaction and nonsense about these fixtures meaning the same as the Autumn internationals is embarrassing.

We win our next 2 matches against Wales and we will be the number 1 ranked team in the world going into the world cup. Would that be enough for everyone to say we "are back".

We do have two games to go and the outcomes are pretty irrelevant but there are some very fundamental areas where we are not firing. If these don't look any better in these games we may be in trouble come real competition time.

whatawaster · 27-08-2019 11:39am

Deleted User wrote: »

I think we'll go full strength this week anyway and will see how things look before the final game at home.

Full strength is not as clear cut as it once seemed imo.

Stockdale or Larmour or Conway?
Aki or Henshaw?
Stander or Conan?
POM or Ruddock or Beirne?
Toner or Henderson?
Best or Cronin or Scannell?

There is form on the one hand, and there is proven class on the other. And I agree in general that you don't just pick on form, you give a lot of weight to those who have proven their worth for you in the past. But when their form deteriorates so much over a period of months and there is no sign of it improving, it really does leave the coach in a quandry.

the.red.baron · 27-08-2019 11:41am

gotta say injury risk played a part there, why would you risk injury at this stage, intensity was missing, can hardly blame them

it wasn't our full strength team

England certainly took advantage

The line out was a disaster, that's fixable, at least 21 points came from that

Everyone played badly? Not sure about that. its hard to look good at 10 if the forwards haven't gotten parity or the scrum half is off

England did look very strong, don't think we can go toe to toe with them

The timing of the world cup gives a big advantage to the SH teams

wittycynic · 27-08-2019 11:55am

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/sineadkissane/status/1166287840575205377?s=19

Probably to provide injury updates and to respond to a couple of days of (entirely justified) castigation by the press of Saturday's performance.

Unlikely to generate anything of serious interest.

There also seems to be a lot of dismissal of Saturday's performance as "just a pre-season" game, and nothing to get too worked up about.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's realistic to relegate the performance to insignificance for a couple of reasons.

(I) It's further evidence of our serious downward trajectory since the November internationals last year. It was always unlikely that we would be able to sustain 2018's performance levels into the following year, but drop off in quality has been far greater than anyone could have imagined.

(ii) It's a record defeat, and one of Ireland's worst performances of the professional era. We've played England regularly since 1875, across 135 tests, and this is the biggest gap there has ever been between the two sides in terms of performance. That's terrifying so close to a world cup. Even our dismal teams of the 1990s were able to contain England better than this.

(iii) Everytime we got the ball we looked like we were going to lose it. Everytime they got the ball they looked like they were going to score. And that's more or less what happened. What is the most difficult part to swallow is that this (albeit to a lesser extent) was the case in the England and Wales games in the Six Nations. Then we were toothless in attack and consistently exposed in defence, particular out wide. Nearly six months on it looks as though nothing has been done to address the problems, which suggests Schmidt has no idea how to fix them.

(IV) Out of form players are repeatedly being picked based on their supposed class, and overall our pack (especially our back row) is simply too light for international rugby. It's clear to even the casual observer that the like of Murray, Best, POM, and others are not firing, and largely haven't across the past season. The backrow in particular needs the insertion of greater bulk to give it a chance to avoid being overpowered. It was terrifying watching some of the England backs run at talented but lightweight backs such as Ringrose and Larmour. We need a balance of physicality in this team or we'll be beaten up repeatedly.

Tikki Wang Wang · 27-08-2019 11:57am

Schmidt-ball has sunk this team. We may as well write off this World Cup and look to 2023/2027. Though if Farrell is a student of Schmidt-ball we won’t progress at all.

Former Former · 27-08-2019 11:57am

I hope Murray is rested completely. I don't care if he passed his HIA, he shouldn't be picked.

My prediction;
Kilcoyne Scannell Porter
Toner Ryan
Ruddock Conan Murphy
Marmion Carty
Earls Henshaw Farrell Kearney
Addison

Cronin McGrath Ryan Henderson TOD McGrath Byrne Conway

Shefwedfan · 27-08-2019 11:57am

is_that_so wrote: »

They can get better as they've said themselves. The settled squad is what they have over everyone else they've played but they look in very good nick. They also have a tougher group to deal with but the question is will they be at their peak near the end of October. That's very hard to gauge and injuries and individual performances will affect them like every other team.

Nobody knows if the settled squad will make a difference

If they get dumped out in group then it will be a disaster....if they win the WC it will be a success and everyone will do it next time.....

27-08-2019 12:03pm

Irish times reporting Wales to put out a second-string / experimental team fur the first game

Burkie1203 · 27-08-2019 12:06pm

https://twitter.com/LeinsterPAGuy/status/1166304565974708224?s=19

27-08-2019 12:08pm

Rumour and might just be speculation.

Best being dropped, won't be travelling to Japan and replacement Captain being announced by Joe this afternoon.

Just doing the rounds on WhatsApp, no idea if accurate.

thomond2006 · 27-08-2019 12:09pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Rumour and might just be speculation.

Best being dropped, won't be travelling to Japan and replacement Captain being announced by Joe this afternoon.

Just doing the rounds on WhatsApp, no idea if accurate.

The replacement captain is Hayes. I KNEW IT.

27-08-2019 12:11pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

The replacement captain is Hayes. I KNEW IT.

Funny you mention a tighthead. Furlong would very possibly be my choice.

Not jumping to conclusions either way.

thomond2006 · 27-08-2019 12:11pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Funny you mention a tighthead. Furlong would very possibly be my choice.

Not jumping to conclusions either way.

I don't mention a tighthead. I mention a LIGIND.

whatawaster · 27-08-2019 12:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Funny you mention a tighthead. Furlong would very possibly be my choice.

Not jumping to conclusions either way.

James Ryan ftw

Burkie1203 · 27-08-2019 12:12pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Rumour and might just be speculation.

Best being dropped, won't be travelling to Japan and replacement Captain being announced by Joe this afternoon.

Just doing the rounds on WhatsApp, no idea if accurate.

New captain would be interesting.

Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

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