Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

realhorrorshow

Former Former wrote: »

Haley doesn't look international quality, but who else do we have at full-back? I'm discounting TOH and everyone else is a winger who can play FB if needed.

Starts at 15 this season:

Mike Haley - 27
Tiernan O'Halloran - 20
Rob Kearney - 12
Mike Lowry - 11
Jordan Larmour - 9
Louis Ludik - 9
Darragh Leader - 7

Not a whole pile to choose from.

Former Former

aloooof wrote: »

I don't see that as a big problem because RK is our starting FB anyway, and versatility has it's obvious benefits in a WC squad.

It'd probably be more unusual if Joe brought a dedicated FB who isn't the starter. Trying to think to 2015, but wasn't Felix Jones tried on the wing at one point as well? (Can't quite remember when, if that was pre-WC tho).

In practice it'll very likely be Larmour our backup FB, as he's top of the queue for the 23 jersey.

EDIT: Checked the 2015 squad, RK was out only dedicated FB then too. Had options of Zebo, Payne, Luke Fitz.

Yeah, agreed. I don't think Haley has any hope of actually going so long as RK stays fit, but if Kearney gets one of his trademark quad/glute injuries, we might need a proper full-back to call on.

aloooof

Former Former wrote: »

Yeah, agreed. I don't think Haley has any hope of actually going so long as RK stays fit, but if Kearney gets one of his trademark quad/glute injuries, we might need a proper full-back to call on.

Lets hope it doesn't come to that. I'd imagine Larmour, Conway, Addison and possibly Henshaw or Stockdale would be in the queue ahead of him? I'd be more comfortable with any of those tbh (and that's as someone who thinks Haley's had a very decent season).

Utah_Saint

realhorrorshow wrote: »

Starts at 15 this season:

Mike Haley - 27
Tiernan O'Halloran - 20
Rob Kearney - 12
Mike Lowry - 11
Jordan Larmour - 9
Louis Ludik - 9
Darragh Leader - 7

Not a whole pile to choose from.

we do look slim on quality FB's....I suppose the hope was Larmour would make the position his. Addison being out is a big loss here.

AbusesToilets

FB and scrumhalf are probably the two areas where Joe has failed to develop depth effectively, largely by his own refusal to give players game time.

Was watching the SA tour games back, sad to think about the failure to build on the potential for a lot of the players involved. Which isn't all down to Joe obviously, but still.

Shefwedfan

AbusesToilets wrote: »

FB and scrumhalf are probably the two areas where Joe has failed to develop depth effectively, largely by his own refusal to give players game time.

Was watching the SA tour games back, sad to think about the failure to build on the potential for a lot of the players involved. Which isn't all down to Joe obviously, but still.

Zebo was given a shot but never nailed himself down as a FB


TOH was given chances but never stepped up


Larmour is just not playing enough at 15 for Leinster.



Scrum half he has struggled to give options a go and stuck too long to Murray. Marmion seems to be his favorite and that is it.....

Jump_In_Jack

We have an ideal tournament schedule in the pools,
We need our best line-up against Scotland, and then a few changes to freshen up for Japan, and then a mix and match selection for the other two matches before the quarter-finals.

I think we will select the following:
Forwards x17
LPx2 - Healy, Kilcoyne (next in line = McGrath)
Hx3 - Best, Cronin, Scannell (next in line = Herring)
TPx3 (with cover for LP) - Furlong, Ryan (1/3), Porter (1/3) (next in line = Bealham)
Lx4 (with cover for BR) - Ryan, Henderson (5/6), Toner, Beirne (5/6) (next in line = Dillane, Kleyn, possibly Roux too)
BFx1 O'Mahony (next in line = Ruddock)
OFx2 Van der Flier, Murphy (next in line = O'Donnell)
N8x2 (with cover for BF and OF) - Stander (6/7/8), Conan (6/8) (next in line could be Max Deegan or Jack O'Donoghue)

Backs x14
SHx3 (with cover for OH) - Murray, Marmion (SH/W), Cooney (SH/OH) (next in line = McGrath)
OHx2 Sexton (OH/IC), Carbery (OH/F) (next in line = Carty, Byrne)
Cx4 Aki (IC/OC), Ringrose (OC/W/IC), Henshaw (IC/OC/F), Farrell (OC/IC) (next in line = Scannell, Addison)
Wx3 Stockdale (W/F/C), Earls (W/OC/F), Conway (W/F) (next in line = D. Kearney)
Fx2 Kearney, Larmour (F/W)

The choices would appear to boil down to whether we take a third out-half (probably Carty or R. Scannell (can cover out-half)) and take one less centre (Farrell) or back three (Conway),
and whether we take an extra back row (probably Ruddock) and one less back, probably leaving one scrum-half (Cooney) or centre (Farrell) or back three (Conway).

Our matchday 23 against Scotland would be ideally as follows:
1. Healy, 2. Best, 3. Furlong, 4. Henderson, 5. Ryan, 6. O'Mahony, 7. Van der Flier, 8. Conan, 9. Murray, 10. Sexton, 11. Stockdale, 12. Aki, 13. Ringrose, 14. Earls, 15. R. Kearney.
16. Cronin, 17. Kilcoyne, 18. Ryan, 19. Beirne, 20. Stander, 21. Marmion, 22. Carbery, 23. Henshaw.

Squad Cover: (H) N. Scannell, (LP/TP) A. Porter, (L) Toner, (BR) Murphy, (SH/OH) Cooney, (C) Farrell, (W) Conway, (F) Larmour.

Reserves: (H) Herring, (LP) McGrath, (TP) Bealham, (L) Dillane/Kleyn/ +Roux, (BF) Ruddock, (OF) O'Donnell, (N8) +Deegan/+O'Donoghue, (SH) McGrath, (OH) Carty/Byrne, (C) Scannell/+Addison, (W) D. Kearney, (F) Haley.

AbusesToilets

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Zebo was given a shot but never nailed himself down as a FB


TOH was given chances but never stepped up


Larmour is just not playing enough at 15 for Leinster.



Scrum half he has struggled to give options a go and stuck too long to Murray. Marmion seems to be his favorite and that is it.....

TOH was never given a real chance. His one start in SA and he was injured by La Roux. Zebo I'll give you to a lesser extent. Payne would've been ideal in many respects, especially as a 2nd phase playmaker.

jm08

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Zebo was given a shot but never nailed himself down as a FB

Not at fullback. He got a few of the warm-up games 4 years ago. Other than that, Rob Kearney was first choice, with Zebo on the wing.

Larmour is just not playing enough at 15 for Leinster.

Would that be because Rob is preferred - so the same issue as Zebo had.

Scrum half he has struggled to give options a go and stuck too long to Murray. Marmion seems to be his favorite and that is it.....

A bit like him wanting to stick with Sexton at outhalf.

JJJackal

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

We have an ideal tournament schedule in the pools,
We need our best line-up against Scotland, and then a few changes to freshen up for Japan, and then a mix and match selection for the other two matches before the quarter-finals.

I think we will select the following:
Forwards x17
LPx2 - Healy, Kilcoyne (next in line = McGrath)
Hx3 - Best, Cronin, Scannell (next in line = Herring)
TPx3 (with cover for LP) - Furlong, Ryan (1/3), Porter (1/3) (next in line = Bealham)
Lx4 (with cover for BR) - Ryan, Henderson (5/6), Toner, Beirne (5/6) (next in line = Dillane, Kleyn, possibly Roux too)
BFx1 O'Mahony (next in line = Ruddock)
OFx2 Van der Flier, Murphy (next in line = O'Donnell)
N8x2 (with cover for BF and OF) - Stander (6/7/8), Conan (6/8) (next in line could be Max Deegan or Jack O'Donoghue)

Backs x14
SHx3 (with cover for OH) - Murray, Marmion (SH/W), Cooney (SH/OH) (next in line = McGrath)
OHx2 Sexton (OH/IC), Carbery (OH/F) (next in line = Carty, Byrne)
Cx4 Aki (IC/OC), Ringrose (OC/W/IC), Henshaw (IC/OC/F), Farrell (OC/IC) (next in line = Scannell, Addison)
Wx3 Stockdale (W/F/C), Earls (W/OC/F), Conway (W/F) (next in line = D. Kearney)
Fx2 Kearney, Larmour (F/W)

The choices would appear to boil down to whether we take a third out-half (probably Carty or R. Scannell (can cover out-half)) and take one less centre (Farrell) or back three (Conway),
and whether we take an extra back row (probably Ruddock) and one less back, probably leaving one scrum-half (Cooney) or centre (Farrell) or back three (Conway).

Our matchday 23 against Scotland would be ideally as follows:
1. Healy, 2. Best, 3. Furlong, 4. Henderson, 5. Ryan, 6. O'Mahony, 7. Van der Flier, 8. Conan, 9. Murray, 10. Sexton, 11. Stockdale, 12. Aki, 13. Ringrose, 14. Earls, 15. R. Kearney.
16. Cronin, 17. Kilcoyne, 18. Ryan, 19. Beirne, 20. Stander, 21. Marmion, 22. Carbery, 23. Henshaw.

Squad Cover: (H) N. Scannell, (LP/TP) A. Porter, (L) Toner, (BR) Murphy, (SH/OH) Cooney, (C) Farrell, (W) Conway, (F) Larmour.

Reserves: (H) Herring, (LP) McGrath, (TP) Bealham, (L) Dillane/Kleyn/ +Roux, (BF) Ruddock, (OF) O'Donnell, (N8) +Deegan/+O'Donoghue, (SH) McGrath, (OH) Carty/Byrne, (C) Scannell/+Addison, (W) D. Kearney, (F) Haley.

Agree with your choices - I would bring Addison over Farrell if Addison fit - he offers more cover than Farrell

troyzer

JJJackal wrote: »

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

We have an ideal tournament schedule in the pools,
We need our best line-up against Scotland, and then a few changes to freshen up for Japan, and then a mix and match selection for the other two matches before the quarter-finals.

I think we will select the following:
Forwards x17
LPx2 - Healy, Kilcoyne (next in line = McGrath)
Hx3 - Best, Cronin, Scannell (next in line = Herring)
TPx3 (with cover for LP) - Furlong, Ryan (1/3), Porter (1/3) (next in line = Bealham)
Lx4 (with cover for BR) - Ryan, Henderson (5/6), Toner, Beirne (5/6) (next in line = Dillane, Kleyn, possibly Roux too)
BFx1 O'Mahony (next in line = Ruddock)
OFx2 Van der Flier, Murphy (next in line = O'Donnell)
N8x2 (with cover for BF and OF) - Stander (6/7/8), Conan (6/8) (next in line could be Max Deegan or Jack O'Donoghue)

Backs x14
SHx3 (with cover for OH) - Murray, Marmion (SH/W), Cooney (SH/OH) (next in line = McGrath)
OHx2 Sexton (OH/IC), Carbery (OH/F) (next in line = Carty, Byrne)
Cx4 Aki (IC/OC), Ringrose (OC/W/IC), Henshaw (IC/OC/F), Farrell (OC/IC) (next in line = Scannell, Addison)
Wx3 Stockdale (W/F/C), Earls (W/OC/F), Conway (W/F) (next in line = D. Kearney)
Fx2 Kearney, Larmour (F/W)

The choices would appear to boil down to whether we take a third out-half (probably Carty or R. Scannell (can cover out-half)) and take one less centre (Farrell) or back three (Conway),
and whether we take an extra back row (probably Ruddock) and one less back, probably leaving one scrum-half (Cooney) or centre (Farrell) or back three (Conway).

Our matchday 23 against Scotland would be ideally as follows:
1. Healy, 2. Best, 3. Furlong, 4. Henderson, 5. Ryan, 6. O'Mahony, 7. Van der Flier, 8. Conan, 9. Murray, 10. Sexton, 11. Stockdale, 12. Aki, 13. Ringrose, 14. Earls, 15. R. Kearney.
16. Cronin, 17. Kilcoyne, 18. Ryan, 19. Beirne, 20. Stander, 21. Marmion, 22. Carbery, 23. Henshaw.

Squad Cover: (H) N. Scannell, (LP/TP) A. Porter, (L) Toner, (BR) Murphy, (SH/OH) Cooney, (C) Farrell, (W) Conway, (F) Larmour.

Reserves: (H) Herring, (LP) McGrath, (TP) Bealham, (L) Dillane/Kleyn/ +Roux, (BF) Ruddock, (OF) O'Donnell, (N8) +Deegan/+O'Donoghue, (SH) McGrath, (OH) Carty/Byrne, (C) Scannell/+Addison, (W) D. Kearney, (F) Haley.

Agree with your choices - I would bring Addison over Farrell if Addison fit - he offers more cover than Farrell

Toner doesn't even make the 23? Henshaw is also definitely ahead of Aki now and neither would wear 23.

Jump_In_Jack

troyzer wrote: »

Toner doesn't even make the 23? Henshaw is also definitely ahead of Aki now and neither would wear 23.

Toner is potentially a starter, or failing that he could bench, or even if not on the bench he could jump in the starting team if an injury arose.
It’s a bit like Niall Scannell, he could jump straight in if Best were injured.
Beirne and Cronin are arguably more impactful off the bench.
Henshaw absolutely could cover the 23 jersey, he can play centre and fullback and If he needed to cover a wing injury he could move to centre with Ringrose moving out to wing.
If Addison were available he might cover 23 better, Larmour could also cover centre perhaps, but Henshaw would offer such a big impact that he’d be my preference, with him coming off the bench for Aki with 20 to go it could turn a tight match in our favour.

Edit - could also move Earls in to centre I suppose if Larmour or Conway we’re on the bench.
I’d still rather Henshaw on the bench though.

Jump_In_Jack

JJJackal wrote: »

Agree with your choices - I would bring Addison over Farrell if Addison fit - he offers more cover than Farrell

There’s also a small possibility that Rory Scannell could get into the squad ahead of Farrell as he could cover out-half.
I wonder if there could be one of Aki or Henshaw left out to include Farrell isn’t the 31, it’s not very likely given the experience those two have built up, but if Joe see something extra that Farrell can offer it could be an interesting call.

Wegians89

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

There’s also a small possibility that Rory Scannell could get into the squad ahead of Farrell as he could cover out-half.
I wonder if there could be one of Aki or Henshaw left out to include Farrell isn’t the 31, it’s not very likely given the experience those two have built up, but if Joe see something extra that Farrell can offer it could be an interesting call.

I’d be much happier seeing three 10s brought with henshaw/carbery covering 15 than scannell covering 10. Don’t see any way either henshaw or aki aren’t brought.

Jump_In_Jack

Wegians89 wrote: »

I’d be much happier seeing three 10s brought with henshaw/carbery covering 15 than scannell covering 10. Don’t see any way either henshaw or aki aren’t brought.

Yeah, 3 scrum-halves and 3 out-halves does give a bit of relief if there are any injuries, but then we would have to leave one of Farrell or Conway at home, more than likely Farrell I’d suspect.

Cosmo Kramer

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

There’s also a small possibility that Rory Scannell could get into the squad ahead of Farrell as he could cover out-half.
I wonder if there could be one of Aki or Henshaw left out to include Farrell isn’t the 31, it’s not very likely given the experience those two have built up, but if Joe see something extra that Farrell can offer it could be an interesting call.

Going on previous form one of the centres will almost certainly be injured by the time the World Cup comes around so whichever three are fit will most likely travel.

The squad looks decent but there's at least four positions where we're one injury away from problems come the quarters. I'd be resting the likes of Sexton and van der Flier after the Scotland game (if we can get them that far in one piece) so that we can be as close to full strength as possible for our crack at SA/NZ.

Wegians89

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Yeah, 3 scrum-halves and 3 out-halves does give a bit of relief if there are any injuries, but then we would have to leave one of Farrell or Conway at home, more than likely Farrell I’d suspect.

Think the half backs are too important not to have cover there, there’s enough talent in the squad to fill in the rest of the backs in a worse case scenario. I’d leave both out and bring Addison personally, if he’s 100 percent fit

Legalfarmer89

KBurke85 wrote: »

If fairness to O'Halloran I don't think he has been as good this season. when he was bang in form he wasn't making squads. With his form having dropped a bit It would be even more surprising to see him make the squad.

I’d take O’Halloran over Haley any-day.I’d be surprised if Haley goes to the World Cup but then again these squads offer versatility.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Ross Byrne got the nod over Carty, Byrne controls a game very well but Carty has had a massive season .... depends how they go in training.

Jump_In_Jack

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Going on previous form one of the centres will almost certainly be injured by the time the World Cup comes around so whichever three are fit will most likely travel.

The squad looks decent but there's at least four positions where we're one injury away from problems come the quarters. I'd be resting the likes of Sexton and van der Flier after the Scotland game (if we can get them that far in one piece) so that we can be as close to full strength as possible for our crack at SA/NZ.

I think we’ve great depth in almost every position. I’d be worried if Van der Flier or Kearney picked up an injury.
I wouldn’t worry if we lost Murray or Sexton, I think the subs are good enough to step up.

Wegians89

Legalfarmer89 wrote: »

I’d take O’Halloran over Haley any-day.I’d be surprised if Haley goes to the World Cup but then again these squads offer versatility.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Ross Byrne got the nod over Carty, Byrne.. depends how they go in training.

Toh had some terrible performances this last year and even when he’s on top form doesn’t fit Schmidt’s plans. No way he’d be going to the World Cup. Carty is probably one of the top three players on form this season and has way more to his game than Byrne. I’d say carty is more likely to over take carbery than Byrne is to overtake carty.

The Lost Sheep

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I think we’ve great depth in almost every position. I’d be worried if Van der Flier or Kearney picked up an injury.
I wouldn’t worry if we lost Murray or Sexton, I think the subs are good enough to step up.

I think you're mad to not worry if Murray/Sexton were out. They are far more key than VDF and Kearney

Jump_In_Jack

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I think you're mad to not worry if Murray/Sexton were out. They are far more key than VDF and Kearney

Well just to illustrate the point, Murray was missing last year when we beat New Zealand, and Sexton was dire for much of the 6 Nations, so Carty or Carbery could certainly do better if given the chance.

bilston

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I think we’ve great depth in almost every position. I’d be worried if Van der Flier or Kearney picked up an injury.
I wouldn’t worry if we lost Murray or Sexton, I think the subs are good enough to step up.

We can cope without Murray. But there is still a bit of a gulf between Sexton and Carbery. We need Sexton to be at his best in the WC to get to the Semi Finals

The Lost Sheep

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Well just to illustrate the point, Murray was missing last year when we beat New Zealand, and Sexton was dire for much of the 6 Nations, so Carty or Carbery could certainly do better if given the chance.

Maybe but we're talking about a world cup where we have never won a knock out match. To finally do that we need every single of our top class/potential world class players. VDF isnt up there with CM/JS and i dont see Carty/Carbery being able to do what JS can do yet at least

bilston wrote: »

We can cope without Murray. But there is still a bit of a gulf between Sexton and Carbery. We need Sexton to be at his best in the WC to get to the Semi Finals

Marmion is great others as well but think we need Murray to be at his best as well to actually get to a semi final

Lucas44

Doesn’t matter lads we’re still getting knocked out in the quarter finals

Former Former

Rory Scannell's entirely theoretical ability to cover out half won't be a factor in selection. I can't see any reason why we'd take Farrell over either Aki or Henshaw nor any evidence that Joe would remotely consider it.

Selection is going to be a lot less complicated.

Jump_In_Jack

I really don’t think we need Sexton or Murray to beat New Zealand or South Africa, the subs are well capable, i’d Be more worried about winning the battle up front, Van der Flier, Healy and Furlong are much more important in my view.

Podge_irl

Lucas44 wrote: »

Doesn’t matter lads we’re still getting knocked out in the quarter finals

Meh, we have as much time before the RWC as there was between the AIs and the 6N. Can't really say anything yet.

sxt

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Marmion is great others as well but think we need Murray to be at his best as well to actually get to a semi final

I'm not sure Murray will ever regain the heights of his 2018 form back, I know he had a lengthy injury but if comparing his latest performances to last year, he is not playing anywhere near the same level.

Shefwedfan

Just to do the stereotype thing

Play toner v Japan, he can just hold the ball up high