Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

BattleCorp · 13-07-2019 3:47pm

yubabill wrote: »

I do not think we have a pensions time bomb.

I think we are being cynically manipulated, as we always have been. The establishment have become expert at fabricating deflections to sell us anything they want.

The problem, if you want to call it that, is that people are living much longer. Much much longer.

People are now living 5 years on average longer than they did in 2000. In 1970 the average age that people died at was 71. That's 6 years of a pension for the average person. Now we live to an average of 81 so that's 16 years of a pension for the average person. So you can see how the amount of money we need to pay pensions is constantly increasing. And that trend is only going to continue to increase because of advances in medical science.

If loads of people are alive on pensions, who is going to pay for those pensions?

The establishment argue that demographics will cause a pensions time bomb as people live longer and have less kids. But we had massive emigration here in the 20th century (1945-'60, 1979-'90) and the population continued to decrease until the '70's but pensions were still paid. Yes, the pension age was high and lots of people died before they got it, but it was paid for by an impoverished and declining population, all while pensions were improving.

See my point about life expectancy above.

I don't think we are being sold a pup with regard to problems with pensions in the future. I'd love to think it's scaremongering like the Y2K bug back in 1999 but unfortunately I don't think so.

And another problem coming down the line is people renting for life. What happens when they hit pension age and their rent stays the same but their income drops substantially because of their retirement. Loads of homeless pensioners. Fcuking glad I'm not in that situation.

yubabill · 13-07-2019 6:43pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

The problem, if you want to call it that, is that people are living much longer. Much much longer.

People are now living 5 years on average longer than they did in 2000. In 1970 the average age that people died at was 71. That's 6 years of a pension for the average person. Now we live to an average of 81 so that's 16 years of a pension for the average person. So you can see how the amount of money we need to pay pensions is constantly increasing. And that trend is only going to continue to increase because of advances in medical science.

If loads of people are alive on pensions, who is going to pay for those pensions?

See my point about life expectancy above.

I don't think we are being sold a pup with regard to problems with pensions in the future. I'd love to think it's scaremongering like the Y2K bug back in 1999 but unfortunately I don't think so.

And another problem coming down the line is people renting for life. What happens when they hit pension age and their rent stays the same but their income drops substantially because of their retirement. Loads of homeless pensioners. Fcuking glad I'm not in that situation.

Actually, the pension was not paid until age 70 back then, so 1 year of payout.

Life expectancy has grown since then, but it has stagnated or shrunk slightly in the US and UK recently.

The link in my comment shows how Japan are dealing with shrinking demographics - people are incentivised to simply keep working.

I aim to keep going until I'm ready to drop, having seen my grandfather work through pain every day for 42 years while paying into a huge pension which he enjoyed for a total of 6 years.

Japan has not embraced globalisation in the way Ireland has, they are a very different and peculiar society where loyalty counts for everything and the "job for life" is still a real thing; a good friend emigrated there in the "80's and we have kept in touch.

In this country we are witnessing a race to the bottom in the jobs market, the housing market and in state services. The pensions demographic bottleneck is a convenient cloak for more globalisation, while other real alternatives are ignored.

As our politicians increasingly fail to act in the national interest, but rather use our institutions as stepping-stones to EU and UN bodies, expect plenty more brown-nosing and toe-ing the globalist line from them at the peasant's expense.

Cass · 13-07-2019 7:08pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

But younger people on social welfare have options. They can get off their hole and get a job or they can get on a boat. Not many 70 year old pensioners have that option.

That is kinda my point. Those who have worked their entire life are are entitled to their pension are being told it's possible the fund may run out of money but those that from an early age have not worked are paid with no fear of it running out.

While not for everyone the actual payment each week is only the tip of the iceberg with HAP, subsidies, grants, etc. all available. So an unemployed person in their late teens or early twenties with one or more children may be "costing" over €2,100 per month (average). Yet an OAP gets €850 in the same month after a lifetime of work and contributing to the exchequer?

BattleCorp · 13-07-2019 9:01pm

yubabill wrote: »

Actually, the pension was not paid until age 70 back then, so 1 year of payout.

Life expectancy has grown since then, but it has stagnated or shrunk slightly in the US and UK recently.

The link in my comment shows how Japan are dealing with shrinking demographics - people are incentivised to simply keep working.

I aim to keep going until I'm ready to drop, having seen my grandfather work through pain every day for 42 years while paying into a huge pension which he enjoyed for a total of 6 years.

Japan has not embraced globalisation in the way Ireland has, they are a very different and peculiar society where loyalty counts for everything and the "job for life" is still a real thing; a good friend emigrated there in the "80's and we have kept in touch.

In this country we are witnessing a race to the bottom in the jobs market, the housing market and in state services. The pensions demographic bottleneck is a convenient cloak for more globalisation, while other real alternatives are ignored.

As our politicians increasingly fail to act in the national interest, but rather use our institutions as stepping-stones to EU and UN bodies, expect plenty more brown-nosing and toe-ing the globalist line from them at the peasant's expense.

Good point on the pensions at 70. That actually reinforces my point though, that the pot needs to be much larger now than it was back then.

I'm not being smart but I don't see what globalisation has to do with pensions?

But back to the pension time bomb, there absolutely is a pensions time bomb. That's why the Japanese are working til they drop. They can't afford pensions so that's why they do that. We'll have to end up doing the same. That's why I said in an earlier post that we'll have to work until we are 85.

solarwinds · 13-07-2019 9:08pm

Its in the politicians interest to keep a certain sector of society on welfare, as far as i know are politicians not some of the biggest landlords out there, just another way for some of them to dig a little deeper into our pockets helping themselves to more of our money.
Pensioners more than likely own their own homes so no revenue stream from them. But the younger generation that is just another pension for the politicians, so get them on it early and keep jacking the rents which in turn sees an increase in the HAP.

yubabill · 14-07-2019 8:11am

BattleCorp wrote: »

Good point on the pensions at 70. That actually reinforces my point though, that the pot needs to be much larger now than it was back then.

I'm not being smart but I don't see what globalisation has to do with pensions?

But back to the pension time bomb, there absolutely is a pensions time bomb. That's why the Japanese are working til they drop. They can't afford pensions so that's why they do that. We'll have to end up doing the same. That's why I said in an earlier post that we'll have to work until we are 85.

You have to view demographics as a dynamic thing. I see a bottleneck, you see a time bomb. I see it can be coped with because for twenty-odd years I have expected the state pension to be attacked once the baby boomers start to exit (like trying to insure my first car - one time insurance was affordable with just a full license/ got that, then they wanted me to be over 21/ when I got to 21 it was pushed out to over 23.... which was exactly the age of the last baby boomer).

Pensions are being used to justify immigration. Globalization means mass immigration. Mass immigration pushes down wages and puts pressure on housing, state services etc. as before.

We see the results in the news most days. It’s pretty obvious but the mainstream media don’t openly state it.

Think of this- there are 39 million people in Poland and we received about 400,000 of them in a short period. How can that not affect housing, school places, hospital waiting lists? If immigration was so beneficial, we would have none of these problems today, because the immigrants would have us rolling in cash.

What actually happens is a competitive lowering of wages, with resultant less taxes. Government sees that, so they go for scale.

Couple that with global corporations controlling prices for goods and services at will (building materials went up every year during the recession even though demand was on the floor- because the few builders had nowhere else to go other than CRH, Kingspan and the like, who were maximizing what they could get) and you get to where we are now.

I do not see a pensions time bomb, I see a bottleneck which can be resolved without making our kids wage slaves.

But we all know who is going to win (and it’s not a nobody with the Cassandra syndrome).

Grizzly 45 · 14-07-2019 1:21pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

T

And another problem coming down the line is people renting for life. What happens when they hit pension age and their rent stays the same but their income drops substantially because of their retirement. Loads of homeless pensioners. Fcuking glad I'm not in that situation.

Europe solved this years ago.Owning property is a big hang up in our national psyche,for obvoius reasons,but it never has been in Europe.People dont think twice about renting,as there is a lot of benefits to i as well in a properly structured and regulated market.Which Ireland hasn't got,as it suits the politicans who are landlords,and the corporate landlords as well. In Europe,you cant just boot up the rent from month to month because you are short at the bank.You have to give 4months notice,for people to search for different accomadation if it is too much.Pension age,the longer you have been living at an address,the securer your tenancy is,so you can be looking at up to 12 months notice to quit,if you have been in a place for 5years or more.You come to an agreement with the landlord that your rent stays fixed at your last working year wage,or if you arnt capable anymore you move into a retirement home and the state pays your retirement home from the pension.

Personally,I prefer the Italian method.Some Italian fammlies have 3 generations living under the same roof in a 3 story house.Grandparents on the top or ground floor ,Parents in the middlle,and kids /newlyweds in the remaining floor.The property is owned outright,it stays in the fammily for generations that way.Everyone has their space,and as Italians are like us Irish big into fammily life,the generations can mingle alot easier on a daily basis.
Maybe we should give this concept a try here too?

solarwinds · 14-07-2019 9:12pm

"Personally,I prefer the Italian method.Some Italian fammlies have 3 generations living under the same roof in a 3 story house.Grandparents on the top or ground floor ,Parents in the middlle,and kids /newlyweds in the remaining floor.The property is owned outright,it stays in the fammily for generations that way.Everyone has their space,and as Italians are like us Irish big into fammily life,the generations can mingle alot easier on a daily basis.
Maybe we should give this concept a try here too?"

There could be divorce on a grand scale here with that plan. I mean can you imagine the look on your good wifes face if you told her you were moving her in with 2 generations of YOUR family and not hers. The marriage counsellors would be the new rich.
I predict EPIC battles of Game of Thrones proportions.

oldgit1897 · 16-07-2019 9:37pm

The Green wallys have just got their feet under the table at the eu parliament and are already planning to increase taxes. First on the agenda is a carbon tax.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-carbon-tax-back-on-commissions-agenda/

Birdnuts · 16-07-2019 9:44pm

oldgit1897 wrote: »

The Green wallys have just got their feet under the table at the eu parliament and are already planning to increase taxes. First on the agenda is a carbon tax.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-carbon-tax-back-on-commissions-agenda/

Ciarian Cuff the D4 green MEP was wittering away about air travel 2day on the radio and then had to admit he flies at least once a week to Brussels:rolleyes:

Rosahane · 16-07-2019 10:14pm

Birdnuts wrote: »

Ciarian Cuff the D4 green MEP was wittering away about air travel 2day on the radio and then had to admit he flies at least once a week to Brussels:rolleyes:

And Eamonn Ryan was on this morning wittering on about how China has whole cities predominantly running electric buses, trains and cars; of course he failed to mention that they are opening hundreds of coal powered generating stations to provide the electricity!

Grizzly 45 · 17-07-2019 10:51am

oldgit1897 wrote: »

The Green wallys have just got their feet under the table at the eu parliament and are already planning to increase taxes. First on the agenda is a carbon tax.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-carbon-tax-back-on-commissions-agenda/

Abit out of date that article? 4/12/2014...;):p

oldgit1897 · 17-07-2019 2:02pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Abit out of date that article? 4/12/2014...;):p

Yes, but its back on the table, and i think they are talking about doubling the carbon tax. You'll have to save up to take a 20 mile trip in your jeep soon, or sit shivering in your house because the oil is so expensive.

BattleCorp · 17-07-2019 9:23pm

oldgit1897 wrote: »

Yes, but its back on the table, and i think they are talking about doubling the carbon tax. You'll have to save up to take a 20 mile trip in your jeep soon, or sit shivering in your house because the oil is so expensive.

It's cold, throw another Green Party politician on the fire there BattleCorp.

Grizzly 45 · 18-07-2019 10:52am

Green party...The Water Melon fruit is an ideal fruit to demonstrate the Green party movement globally.
Thin Green agenda outer skin.
Communist Red inside.At the core there are Black Anarchist and Brown Fascist Pits.
Anti gun in extremis...UK,Germany,New Zealand US and Austrailia GPs have always been pushing anti gun and hunting legislation.We had a few mumbles from Greenie Sen,now MEP Grace O Sullivan on this after the Christchurch shooting.So expect more of that in the future.

Anyone want to see how utter crap they are at running a city?I'd suggest a visit to "Mogadishu -on-sea" AKA Brighton/Hove UK.A liberal nest of chaos and anarchy,and thats just the council chambers!The towns are such a mess that even hard core liberals are quitting and moving to London!

Cass · 18-07-2019 9:57pm

I see on the news that people have a new fad. An app that ages you, and all you have to do it upload your facial biometrics.

How dumb are people. Not enough they broadcast EVERY aspect of their lives on every possible form of social media, but incase that is not enough you give them this too. Then the article said that Facebook doesn't keep the information and deletes it within 48 hours. Yeeeaaahhhh.............. its dead safe.

BattleCorp · 19-07-2019 10:44am

Cass wrote: »

I see on the news that people have a new fad. An app that ages you, and all you have to do it upload your facial biometrics.

Are dumb are people. Not enough they broadcast EVERY aspect of their lives on every possible form of social media, but incase that is not enough you give them this too. Then the article said that Facebook doesn't keep the information and deletes it within 48 hours. Yeeeaaahhhh.............. its dead safe.

If you have a smartphone, I'd say you've already signed away your rights ages ago. WhatsApp, FB etc. get permission to access your pics, microphone and sh1tloads of other stuff too.

Grizzly 45 · 19-07-2019 11:11am

Dumber are those who put an "Alexa" device in their house and connect that to the Net.Anything that has a loudspeaker in it can be turned into a microphone.Alexa has both!!That thing listens,records and logs any questions you might ask of it.T

The next step is wiring that to your domestic appliances as well for "energy conservation" and healthier living...So if you fancy a midnight snack,your fridge locks down and refuses you access ,as this will go above your daily calorire intake.:pac:

Couple that with as some have mooted in the EU's more darker corners of adding the Chinese plan of "good citizen ratings" IE you score a certain rating as a "good citizen" you get more privilidges of travel,freer internet usage etc.Critique the regime and you become virtually a social outcast. Imagine that here...I doubt anyone of us would still have a gun liscense to our names!:p

Not to mind the push for a cashless society,and the idiot Swedes millenials leading the charge on this too,by getting themselves "chipped" like sheep!

It seems we want to live willingy in Orwell's Oceania on Airstrip 1 no matter what,and the Govts are only too happy to oblige us.:(

Cass · 19-07-2019 12:05pm

Reading this today and wonder would it have anything to do with the slow down in some areas of paperwork, admin, and licenses?

Grizzly 45 · 19-07-2019 1:07pm

That NI new broom sure does sweep clean alright.

"He’s letting go of Assistant Commissioners, Chief Superintendents and Superintendents, all of whom have a wealth of knowledge and know how the system operates"

Yeah it's called a purge of ranks where most of the problems usually lie in any army or police.Coup plotters and corruption are mostly found in the rank of Colenels.[IE middle/high rank] Big enough to cause problems,and have the ability to cover it up,small enough to go unnoticeable.

oldgit1897 · 20-07-2019 12:10pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

That NI new broom sure does sweep clean alright.

"He’s letting go of Assistant Commissioners, Chief Superintendents and Superintendents, all of whom have a wealth of knowledge and know how the system operates"

Yeah it's called a purge of ranks where most of the problems usually lie in any army or police.Coup plotters and corruption are mostly found in the rank of Colenels.[IE middle/high rank] Big enough to cause problems,and have the ability to cover it up,small enough to go unnoticeable.

All overdue by decades. The police here were like the church, they thought they had a god given right to do exactly what they wanted to do and no one should be able to say BOO about it.

oldgit1897 · 20-07-2019 12:16pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Dumber are those who put an "Alexa" device in their house and connect that to the Net.Anything that has a loudspeaker in it can be turned into a microphone.Alexa has both!!That thing listens,records and logs any questions you might ask of it.T

The next step is wiring that to your domestic appliances as well for "energy conservation" and healthier living...So if you fancy a midnight snack,your fridge locks down and refuses you access ,as this will go above your daily calorire intake.:pac:

Couple that with as some have mooted in the EU's more darker corners of adding the Chinese plan of "good citizen ratings" IE you score a certain rating as a "good citizen" you get more privilidges of travel,freer internet usage etc.Critique the regime and you become virtually a social outcast. Imagine that here...I doubt anyone of us would still have a gun liscense to our names!:p

Not to mind the push for a cashless society,and the idiot Swedes millenials leading the charge on this too,by getting themselves "chipped" like sheep!

It seems we want to live willingy in Orwell's Oceania on Airstrip 1 no matter what,and the Govts are only too happy to oblige us.:(

Yes, ever do a search on Google and notice that you are offered videos on that subject the next time you log onto to youtube ? I use duckduckgo now.

My phone contract is up early next year, i will not be renewing it and if i do have a phone, it will be a dumb brick from 10 years ago. What pissed me off was messing around on google maps i came across a log where every trip and journey i made was logged, all on the map, the times, dates and from where i left and where i went. Who else knows this info ? All too big brother for me.

oldgit1897 · 26-07-2019 10:04pm

Colorado state university refusing to use the term "America" and "American", because they are not "Inclusive". Has the world gone absolutely raving mad ?

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/07/colorado-state-dont-use-the-word-america-because-its-not-inclusive/

Grizzly 45 · 27-07-2019 11:33am

Thats what happens when you smoke too much weed! Colarado is one of the legal weed states...And it shows .

Grizzly 45 · 27-07-2019 9:02pm

I see the Russians have legalised hunting with bow&arrow this week.
Something I could see Vladimir doing in his days off.:)

https://news.ru/en/society/russians-are-allowed-to-hunt-with-bows/

oldgit1897 · 27-07-2019 11:19pm

Russia, despite all, seems to be one of the few countries left that has a low threshold for BS and nonsense. Its legal and quite common to bowhunt in the states, as well as having a muzzleloading season for large game there. But we would never allow that here as we irish know everything and are above all that.

Cass · 29-07-2019 9:57pm

oldgit1897 wrote: »

Russia, despite all, seems to be one of the few countries left that has a low threshold for BS and nonsense. .

Yeah cos they're a model of how things should be done. :rolleyes:

Cass · 29-07-2019 9:59pm

Cannot understand of believe the news article about the guy int he states that "forgot" his twin babies were in the car. He left them in 31 degree heat (which was 10-15 degrees higher in the car) for 8 hours, and both, tragically, died.

Don't want to speculate on the reasons or causes, but how do you forget your babies are in the car? Absolutely tragic and completely preventable.

oldgit1897 · 29-07-2019 11:04pm

Cass wrote: »

Yeah cos they're a model of how things should be done. :rolleyes:

And Ireland is ? Bertie handing away our gas deposits in the west for a euro fer instance ? A half pissed Biffo telling Merkel how to run the German economy (the fourth biggest in the world) ? But yet the Irish reckon we know better than everyone else. Other examples ? Practical shooting, muzzleloading, reloading (with the exception of the midlands), bowhunting, things that cause no huge issues in other countries, but yet we cannot do here, because we know better than the Americans, Germans etc.

yubabill · 30-07-2019 9:11am

I really hate to see those mass shootings in the US. Every time they come on the news I get annoyed.

Thought about this a lot over the years and my opinion is that the Americans have an immense sense of entitlement, probably because so many of them are single children.

Having never been there, this is pure speculation but I cannot understand what makes someone feel so aggrieved that they go out and shoot people.

I'm not just saying this because it makes sports shooters look bad - although it is a big part of it - I genuinely do not understand the mentality.

The recent guy in California yesterday seems to be a white supremacist, the NZ mosque shooter seems to be an extreme Leftist so go figure.

Cass · 30-07-2019 11:49am

oldgit1897 wrote: »

And Ireland is ?

Can't argue with anything you said, but i meant it more in gest although there is a serious aspect to it.

Political assassinations, jailing of rivals, essentially a dictatorship, rampant poverty, imprisonment for views, etc.

My point is while no country is perfect i wouldn't be holding Russia up as the poster child for how things should be done simply because they use brutal and violent means to eliminate minority views.

Cass · 30-07-2019 12:11pm

yubabill wrote: »

Having never been there, this is pure speculation but I cannot understand what makes someone feel so aggrieved that they go out and shoot people.

I don't know, or more accurately, don't know ALL the conditions that create a mass shooter however you need to look at what has changed in the last 30 to 40 years.

I say that because up until the 70s children had access to firearms, but mass shootings, while they existed, were not nearly as prevalent.

The welfare state, high single Mother rate, lack of Fathers in the home, HUGE increase in prescription medication especially to children, the introduction of "gun free Zones", the (as you said) sense of entitlement, the "everyone is a winner" mentality all can cause these shootings.

There is a huge increase in children being medicated with strong drugs from an early age.This has to have an effect on the person. Throwing pills at someone without discussing the underlying cause of their mental health illness will solve nothing. It's like relying on your TV to entertain and raise your kids then wonder why they are disassociated from other people when they're adults.

This ties in with the current trend of allowing/forcing children to take chemical altering medication that "turns" them form a boy to a girl or vice versa. There is a reason why the age off consent, drink, drive, vote, etc. is 16 to 18 years of age. They are too immature before that age (and possibly at that age) to make an informed decision but the minority kick up such a stink labeling anything that goes against this ethos as racist, bigotry, sexist, etc. that no one dare challenge it.

The same lack of upbringing has created the millennial issue. This notion that everyone is a winner is ridiculous. The world needs ditch diggers and no matter what any parent may believe some children are destined for mediocrity. That is not a bad thing, but to never tell a child no, to give them trophies for participating, for never introducing them to failure means they expect to always get their way and when they face a situation in later life that does no conform to this they lash out, violently.

Again coupled with prescription drugs this can increase the "lash out" effect ten fold.

Lastly gun free zones. I don't personally believe everyone should have a gun, but the 2nd amendment in the US says you can (given the obvious exclusions). A good guy with a gun does not always prevent a bad guy with a gun, in fact statistics from the FBI says it accounts for less than 5% of them, but i'm not arguing for everyone to be armed merely the point that creating these zones and advertising their existence creates an opportunity for someone that is intent on doing harm.

This issue is far too complex for me to accurately diagnose and to think i have an adequate understanding of not only the causes and solutions is arrogant. I can have an opinion though and for me to understand why these events happen i try to look at what changed and like when something goes wrong with my rifle (excuse the simplistic analogy) i look to the last things i changed to figure out what has caused the problem.

Grizzly 45 · 30-07-2019 12:46pm

yubabill wrote: »

I really hate to see those mass shootings in the US. Every time they come on the news I get annoyed.

Thought about this a lot over the years and my opinion is that the Americans have an immense sense of entitlement, probably because so many of them are single children.

Having never been there, this is pure speculation but I cannot understand what makes someone feel so aggrieved that they go out and shoot people.

I'm not just saying this because it makes sports shooters look bad - although it is a big part of it - I genuinely do not understand the mentality.

The recent guy in California yesterday seems to be a white supremacist, the NZ mosque shooter seems to be an extreme Leftist so go figure.

You'll proably find that this guy was off his meds...Again! The pharma and head shrinking industry in the US has alot more to answer for than the NRA in these cases.
America and especially California has some serious societial issues these days.That it must be a miserable time to be a kid over there.Between being pushed,depending on how fuked up your parents might be, to change your gender,because your dad is now your mum and your mum is now your dad,but was your actual mum when she,at the time got the AI man in with her single sex partner,and they are giving you hormone blockers to prevent you developing naturally into your true sex and gender.Or you actually DO have normal parents,but hardly ever see them as they are working every God given hour to keep a roof over your heads and are trying to make over 350k a year in California,as you are considerd breadline material there if you make under 150K PA. So you might have "issues" in what the US education system calls "high schools" but are literally a combination of a detention centre, gang turf,and jungle.where any sign of problems is sorted out with medication and anti depressants.

Usually Lithium based!!This seems to be the main thread in 95% of these shootings,and one of the side effects of coming off these anti depressants is apprently uncontrollable anger,and rage at everything and nothing. The shooter said to one victim according to witnesses "I feel very,very angry"

Huberty,before he shot up the Mc Donalds in San Yisidro,San Diego in 1984. Was taken off anti depressants,and knew himself that he wasn't right and literally begged to be put in an institution before he did harm....

Good luck with that over there. America has had an utterly appaling record of mental health treatment for the last 160 years. Think "One flew over the Cuckoos nest" type asylums just run even worse. Why do you think most American horror films have either a mental hospital,a escaped mental patient, or a creepy doctor working in one in their plot line somewhere? Or doing some kind of lobotomy experiment?Plus it cost the state millions in keeping people locked up every month.So keeping people who relly do need to be in institutions,in a chemical straight jacket of drugs is much more friendlier,and cheaper for the taxpayer.
Its why there are so many crazies walking around pushing shopping trollies with all their possesions in them in every US city.Or finding the occasional skeleton of a single old woman in an apartment surround by skeletons of a dozen cats,that no one had seen in some cases ,years.

It's only one of the multiple factors as to why people let their dogs off the leash and hitch up their UZI and head off for a Mc Donalds.But mental issues,not treating them properly and dangerous meds has a lot to play in these incidents.But somehow it's an inanimate objects fault!

BattleCorp · 30-07-2019 12:57pm

Cass wrote: »

Cannot understand of believe the news article about the guy int he states that "forgot" his twin babies were in the car. He left them in 31 degree heat (which was 10-15 degrees higher in the car) for 8 hours, and both, tragically, died.

Don't want to speculate on the reasons or causes, but how do you forget your babies are in the car? Absolutely tragic and completely preventable.

Happened in Ireland a few years ago. Well, not twins but same scenario.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/family-tragedy-after-baby-dies-after-being-left-in-car-on-hottest-day-35757623.html

oldgit1897 · 30-07-2019 1:21pm

The thing is Canada has huge gun ownership too, but doesn't seem to have anything like the amount of mass shootings, murders, gang violence etc that the Americans have. I was on another forum which is mainly American, one old boy was saying he was ill, his health insurance premium is over 900 dollars a month ! If he was suffering with a mental health issue and had not got that insurance, he would not get treatment or get very little. Maybe thats the issue ?

oldgit1897 · 30-07-2019 1:27pm

Cass wrote: »

Can't argue with anything you said, but i meant it more in gest although there is a serious aspect to it.

Political assassinations, jailing of rivals, essentially a dictatorship, rampant poverty, imprisonment for views, etc.

My point is while no country is perfect i wouldn't be holding Russia up as the poster child for how things should be done simply because they use brutal and violent means to eliminate minority views.

Essentially a dictatorship ? Sounds like ff/fg, the guards and the church here for about 70 years, now its the eu commission dictating. Rampant poverty, oh we had a bit of that here and still do, plenty of people kipping down in doorways in dublin city centre and i presume the rest of Ireland.

Brutal and violent means to eliminate minority views ? Oh a bit of that went on here too, especially during the troubles.

But point taken, you were taking the wizz

Cass · 30-07-2019 2:50pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Happened in Ireland a few years ago. Well, not twins but same scenario.

Absolutely tragic.

I know its not widespread and happening weekly, but i just don't understand how anyone can forget their child is in the car. I don't mean to stick the boot in to anyone that has had this happen to them and i'm not seeking to apportion blame (what can i say that will change or make them feel worse than they do), but for me it's beyond fathoming how this can happen.

I know this is too simplistic to be used as a proper comparison but how many times per day do people have thoughts running through their mind like did i lock the back door, did i leave the light on, what have i to collect on my way home. Why in this quagmire of random thoughts did their children not enter their mind once. Even if they were sure they'd dropped them off it's your kids and a trip to the car to verify would have prevented it.

Anywho, just pondering after seeing the news.

Cass · 30-07-2019 2:54pm

oldgit1897 wrote: »

But point taken, you were taking the wizz

Being sarcastic/smart arse really, but not aimed towards you, just in general.

I'm not going to attempt to get into the social, political and financial comparisons/differences between Ireland and Russia because i'm woefully uneducated in the matter.

Cass · 30-07-2019 3:06pm

oldgit1897 wrote: »

The thing is Canada has huge gun ownership too, but doesn't seem to have anything like the amount of mass shootings, murders, gang violence etc that the Americans have.?

They also have gun registration, limits on what you can own, and no second amendment.

In fact some of our laws are based on Canadian ones.

Americans are utterly opposed to any form of gun registration/control and the second amendment does not require it. Some states implement gun registration for certain types or all types of firearms, but in general it's opposed. However Americans have thad this for over 240 years whereas places like Ireland have always had gun control and it's what we grew up with.

It's also down to our thought processes. Having had this freedom along with the first amendment that allows them to discuss anything they want including combatting the Government they can speak freely and without fear of oppression. We don't have this. Ireland has a free speech in our constitution (article 40.6) but its not like the American one in that it limits that speech up to the point of sedition or anything that contravenes the security/safety of the state. IOW it's limited and i don't know any other country in the world that has true freedom of speech. Look at the UK. You write the wrong thing on Facebook and it's jail.

We're a fairly new country being just 100 years old. Our attitudes have been shaped by our descendants and the hundreds of years as being a ruled nation. It's why we are slow to adopt to renting a property for a lifetime instead of buying it like people do in other countries. As a result we tend to follow the rules/laws regardless of whether we agree with them or not. It's the cap in hand attitude that we see daily. We controversy or scandal occurs we are outraged, but not quite enough to anything about it.

As i said above i'm not an expert, and in fact not even well versed on the issues, but there are some obvious enough differences that could be slightly related to the causes of these tragedies.

oldgit1897 · 30-07-2019 4:24pm

Cass wrote: »

They also have gun registration, limits on what you can own, and no second amendment.

In fact some of our laws are based on Canadian ones.

Americans are utterly opposed to any form of gun registration/control and the second amendment does not require it. Some states implement gun registration for certain types or all types of firearms, but in general it's opposed. However Americans have thad this for over 240 years whereas places like Ireland have always had gun control and it's what we grew up with.

It's also down to our thought processes. Having had this freedom along with the first amendment that allows them to discuss anything they want including combatting the Government they can speak freely and without fear of oppression. We don't have this. Ireland has a free speech in our constitution (article 40.6) but its not like the American one in that it limits that speech up to the point of sedition or anything that contravenes the security/safety of the state. IOW it's limited and i don't know any other country in the world that has true freedom of speech. Look at the UK. You write the wrong thing on Facebook and it's jail.

We're a fairly new country being just 100 years old. Our attitudes have been shaped by our descendants and the hundreds of years as being a ruled nation. It's why we are slow to adopt to renting a property for a lifetime instead of buying it like people do in other countries. As a result we tend to follow the rules/laws regardless of whether we agree with them or not. It's the cap in hand attitude that we see daily. We controversy or scandal occurs we are outraged, but not quite enough to anything about it.

As i said above i'm not an expert, and in fact not even well versed on the issues, but there are some obvious enough differences that could be slightly related to the causes of these tragedies.

I thought the registration was gone in canada ? Or is it only registration for shortarms ? I do remember an attempt was over turned a few years back and it wasted a huge amount of taxpayers money.

I also thought son of castro would have tried again, him being such a sjw.

Cass · 30-07-2019 4:32pm

oldgit1897 wrote: »

I thought the registration was gone in canada ?

Since 2012, but until then they had it, and firearms licenses are still required for restricted firearms. A gun license is registration. So not a second amendment situation.

Tac Foley will know the gun laws better.

I also thought son of castro would have tried again, him being such a sjw.

People kind, FFS, a little respect for his self identity as "a people", not a son.

Cass · 30-07-2019 5:24pm

Subtle mockery is one thing lad, but lets "keep it country".

Grizzly 45 · 30-07-2019 5:54pm

Cass wrote: »

I'm not going to attempt to get into the social, political and financial comparisons/differences between Ireland and Russia because i'm woefully uneducated in the matter.

As a Russian who lived in Ireland once said."For change to happen for their people,Russia is too big and Ireland is too small."

Think that really sums it up.

tac foley · 30-07-2019 6:17pm

This does the job way better than I can - https://www.vox.com/2014/10/24/7047547/canada-gun-law-us-comparison

It's not quite as much of a PITA as the Brits have to put up with on the mainland, but it's close.

There are a few things that you would find odd - including the one where the minimum barrel length thing means that every standard Luger AKA P.08 has a barrel 1mm too short to be legal, unless its a grandfathered firearm. As a result, there is lot after-market 1mm longer Luger barrel gun-smithing going on.

Five-round magazines are the norm.

But certainly the ways and means of getting your gun legally are far and beyond what you have to do. Getting your PAL - permission to acquire and license, is compulsory and costs you. Going a stage further to get your RPAL - 'Restricted' PAL, even more so. And because of the sheer hugity of Canada, crossing from one province into another requires a transportation permit for your firearm. Remember that the entire RoI is only slightly larger than Lake Superior, itself one of the five great lakes.

Things we CAN do in Canada that right now you have restrictions for are reloading and shooting live ammunition from BP firearms.

....and hunt with the bow in our own bow-hunting season.

However, please don't ask me about Québec.

yubabill · 31-07-2019 7:03am

Cass wrote: »

They also have gun registration, limits on what you can own, and no second amendment.

In fact some of our laws are based on Canadian ones.

Americans are utterly opposed to any form of gun registration/control and the second amendment does not require it. Some states implement gun registration for certain types or all types of firearms, but in general it's opposed. However Americans have thad this for over 240 years whereas places like Ireland have always had gun control and it's what we grew up with.

It's also down to our thought processes. Having had this freedom along with the first amendment that allows them to discuss anything they want including combatting the Government they can speak freely and without fear of oppression. We don't have this. Ireland has a free speech in our constitution (article 40.6) but its not like the American one in that it limits that speech up to the point of sedition or anything that contravenes the security/safety of the state. IOW it's limited and i don't know any other country in the world that has true freedom of speech. Look at the UK. You write the wrong thing on Facebook and it's jail.

We're a fairly new country being just 100 years old. Our attitudes have been shaped by our descendants and the hundreds of years as being a ruled nation. It's why we are slow to adopt to renting a property for a lifetime instead of buying it like people do in other countries. As a result we tend to follow the rules/laws regardless of whether we agree with them or not. It's the cap in hand attitude that we see daily. We controversy or scandal occurs we are outraged, but not quite enough to anything about it.

As i said above i'm not an expert, and in fact not even well versed on the issues, but there are some obvious enough differences that could be slightly related to the causes of these tragedies.

The old boys who fought for independence were proud of our country and very libertarian in outlook, despite the media's portrayal of us being indentured to the church and whatever.

My grandfather ran messages for the fighters, he was born in 1909 so was just too young to take arms. I also knew another old boy who was shot at by the Black and Tans when running messages.

I remember a great feeling of freedom and egalitarianism here in my youth and we weren't/aren't any better off than our neighbours (maybe it was just me, because I remember a lot of people who deeply hated this place, but could never understand why).

tac foley · 31-07-2019 6:54pm

My dad was born in 1904, and was old enough to go to prison, which he did. Until the Truce, when he, along with all the other Irishmen imprisoned for taking action against the British, was set free at the same time as the British flag came down in Dublin Castle.

tac foley · 31-07-2019 8:36pm

Darn it, I forgot to mention that ALL sound moderators are prohibited in Canada. Serious jail time for possession, folks. And i mean years and years.

Grizzly 45 · 31-07-2019 10:37pm

yubabill wrote: »

The old boys who fought for independence were proud of our country and very libertarian in outlook, despite the media's portrayal of us being indentured to the church and whatever.

My grandfather ran messages for the fighters, he was born in 1909 so was just too young to take arms. I also knew another old boy who was shot at by the Black and Tans when running messages.

I remember a great feeling of freedom and egalitarianism here in my youth and we weren't/aren't any better off than our neighbours (maybe it was just me, because I remember a lot of people who deeply hated this place, but could never understand why).

"The past is a foreign country.They do things differently there" LP Hartley.

oldgit1897 · 04-08-2019 4:12pm

What do you think of Bruton's plan to introduce a new charge to get rid of the telly licence ? So even if you don't have a television, but are watching videos on your computer or phone, you have to pay it ? Irish water mk 2 imho.

sfakiaman · 04-08-2019 7:56pm

oldgit1897 wrote: »

What do you think of Bruton's plan to introduce a new charge to get rid of the telly licence ? So even if you don't have a television, but are watching videos on your computer or phone, you have to pay it ? Irish water mk 2 imho.

They could put up a pay wall like Sky or many newspapers but they're probably afraid no one would pay.

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