Organised Raid by up to 100 Youths in Cork City Centr

suicide_circus · 10-11-2019 1:14pm

yeah i think multiculturalism has worked in societies or under regimes which featured a ruthless self confidence. a real "get with the program or ship out" mentality. Western Europe seems guilty of its own success and wracked with self doubt. We advise people to "learn to love themselves" before getting into a relationship, perhaps the same might apply here?

kildare lad · 10-11-2019 1:58pm

Tired Gardener wrote: »

What is the name of this planet? I was under the impression that we all live on Earth. Clearly I was wrong, and I've been living on a different planet my whole life.

Diversity is a great thing, monocultures don't occur in nature. Heck, humanity has always been culturally diverse, because people are natural explorers and traders, which brings diverse people together.

Ye multiculturalism is a great thing just have a look at this march Muslims had in Luton to protest the arrest of a woman whose husband had set off a bomb . Btw I'm not against immigration as long as they let in the right people. Hard working people that work , yes , freeloaders and criminals , surprisingly ... no

https://youtu.be/b2nlIfn8tNA

Mad_maxx · 10-11-2019 1:59pm

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Fairly unsettling how the story hasn't even been covered by RTE (NATIONAL BROADCASTER TM).
I know the Dublin media don't really give a sh1te about Cork, but it's a very newsworthy story.

RTE have yet to highlight the fact that the drogheda feud is a traveller one , i would not hold my breath about the details of this little rampage being reported

Eric Cartman · 10-11-2019 2:01pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

RTE have yet to highlight the fact that the drogheda feud is a traveller one , i would not hold my breath about the details of this little rampage being reported

They only have an interest in reporting accurately on white scrotes from bad areas so they cant be accused of the now meaningless ‘R’ word

Mad_maxx · 10-11-2019 2:07pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

They only have an interest in reporting accurately on white scrotes from bad areas so they cant be accused of the now meaningless ‘R’ word

"accused " ?

RTE are themselves one of the main drivers of the new PC authoritarianism

Danzy · 10-11-2019 2:27pm

Tired Gardener wrote: »

What is the name of this planet? I was under the impression that we all live on Earth. Clearly I was wrong, and I've been living on a different planet my whole life.

Diversity is a great thing, monocultures don't occur in nature. Heck, humanity has always been culturally diverse, because people are natural explorers and traders, which brings diverse people together.

Thanks for that Maggie Thatcher.

Lots of buzz words but no solution just double down.

Odhinn · 10-11-2019 2:43pm

Danzy wrote: »

Thanks for that Maggie Thatcher.

Lots of buzz words but no solution just double down.

Careful now.

Tell me how · 10-11-2019 6:36pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Nope. Now it's an all too common belief, but you seem to believe in an inevitable progressive trajectory in human culture, but that's not how it works(you're also being eurocentric about it).

If you look at that list of "there was a time", with the general exception of men and women mixing as equals(though some tribal societies did and do) the rest have happened before and in a few places and guess what? It didn't last for very long. The "overall timeline of the human race" has consistently shown that multiculturalism in the current modern western sense didn't work and cultural differences have been and continue to be one of the main causes of human conflict.

Where multicultural societies did exist and work, they were always under extremely strong and more, self confident, even "right wing" cultural regimes. EG ancient Rome, China and the first few centuries of the Caliphate. Cultures that were open to new ideas and people, but in a limited and reactionary way if those ideas and people in any way threatened the main culture's ideology or power base. Modern European culture is anything but self confident. It's a near constant questioning of European values among many and most in power. Even typing "European values" as something to be valued, or god forbid worse, to be proud of and want to defend will get enough people twitching.

History has also shown time and time again that the culture that is most self confident and nearly always the more overtly militant is the culture that "wins" in the end. It's not the "ah we're not so sure" pacifist cultures holding hands singing Kumbaya.

There has been no similar time in history because of the current day phenomenons of social media, accessible travel and opportunities (work visas, education exchanges, tourism) etc.
More and more, the larger portion of society has proven to be comfortable with a moulding and adoption of other practices based on their individual preferences. It's happening organically in many cases without having to wait for large scale immigration to bring it about.

Do you think the Irish Culture of 1916 and that of 2016 were the same? Of course not, and much of that change occurred as a result of adjustment by the Irish people themselves as opposed to being affected by incoming cultures.

The professed desire to preserve ones culture is false given the eagerness which members of the same group actively seek to move away from it in other areas. Cultural history of church participation? No longer the case. Cultural history of supporting local businesses? No longer the case. Cultural history of attending Irish events such as fair days? No longer the case.

The current circumstance where people stand to one side, point fingers at groups of immigrants and saying 'you are different, you are not like us' and then complaining that they will not adopt the Irish culture is in turn leading to isolation which is then used as an example as to why it cannot work.

You can't say multiculturalism doesn't work, just because you don't like this particular culture.

Also, European borders over the last 1,000 years.
Largely conflict fuelled but no doubt each change was accompanied by cultural transitions and adoptions.

We can try to maintain segregation and wait for conflict to ensure cultural morphing happens, or we can recognize that integration and collaboration is ultimately better for society. It is no coincidence that the most stable period Europe has experienced has been under the cohesiveness of EU membership.

Wibbs · 10-11-2019 7:17pm

Tell me how wrote: »

There has been no similar time in history because of the current day phenomenons of social media, accessible travel and opportunities (work visas, education exchanges, tourism) etc.

Actually there have been a few. The coming of the railways in Europe for a start. Hell the aforementioned Rome, early Islamic empire and China another. There was quite a lot of movement within those empires. Just because we have Arsebook and take a holiday in Ibiza it's not nearly the radically brave new world you seem to think. Indeed social media and more accessible travel has been hijacked for many nefarious means too. All that has happened is that things tend to move more quickly nowadays.

More and more, the larger portion of society has proven to be comfortable with a moulding and adoption of other practices based on their individual preferences. It's happening organically in many cases without having to wait for large scale immigration to bring it about.

There's a huge difference between a load of Chinese folks listening to German speed metal and having a couple of hundred thousand Germans show up in China. It's not within an asses roar of being comparable. You seem to be oblivious to this difference.

Do you think the Irish Culture of 1916 and that of 2016 were the same? Of course not, and much of that change occurred as a result of adjustment by the Irish people themselves as opposed to being affected by incoming cultures.

Again you're talking about ideas and ideas as you even acknowledge born and bred within the same ethnic population and avoiding the issue of migrating large groups of people of a different ethnic and cultural population.

You can't say multiculturalism doesn't work, just because you don't like this particular culture.

Nope, I can say multiculturalism doesn't work simply because multicultural societies have more social ills because of this multiculturalism and this is demonstrable in every single one of them that exists and they're always the same issues too. Internal conflict goes up, criminality goes up, ghettoisation goes up, racism goes up and different groups tend to socially stratify in the same ways.

Also, European borders over the last 1,000 years.
Largely conflict fuelled but no doubt each change was accompanied by cultural transitions and adoptions.

Almost all fuelled by conflict. I'd rather not have any "cultural transitions and adoptions" by such routes thanks very much.

We can try to maintain segregation and wait for conflict to ensure it happens, or we can recognize that integration and collaboration is ultimately better for society.

Wait for conflict to ensure it happens? Jesus

Talk about nonsensical thinking, and I use the word advisedly. So you seem to be acknowledging that conflict drives this stuff, so you're grand with some naive notion that driving immigration, often of cultures and people that are quite happy with their own parent cultures and may think the indigenous culture is a bit daft into a parent culture is grand? So instead of waiting for someone to pull a gun on you, you want to offer up your mouth to suck on the barrel? Man you're the gift that keeps on giving.

It is no coincidence that the most stable period Europe has experienced has been under the cohesiveness of EU membership.

Now you've gone off the reservation. The EU in even close to its present form is around for what 30 years? Never mind many would argue some cracks are forming. And while there has been collaboration, integration not so much. Does Dublin have a "Little Madrid" full of Spaniards? Nope. Spaniards are still overwhelmingly Spaniards, Germans overwhelmingly German and so forth. Indeed Spaniards are a good example. A goodly chunk of them, the Basques, Catalans, the same "race", don't want to be ruled by Madrid and want more autonomy for them and their culture. They've been part of the same country for centuries and in the "cohesive EU" for a few decades and yet...

This smells an awful lot like the kind of "Star Trek Future" thinking; naive, nerdy, passive, thinking it'll always get better, woefully avoidant of considering human nature and how people and cultures actually work and have always worked. Even when the evidence is plain to see. They see "multiculturalism" as always a positive and claim that, yet seem to be tongue tied over the actual positives much beyond "diversity is good man" and have the blinkers set to kill towards the obvious negatives.

Tell me how · 10-11-2019 7:21pm

^^^
Rinse and repeat Wibbs.

If you can't see positives in shared experiences of different cultures, food, music, traditions etc then so be it. I suspect, though, that maybe, like others, you do enjoy these elements but would just rather not so many of the people around.

That's fine, but in a country with so many different cultural individuals working in healthcare for example, from a country which has culturally spread our wings around the world and as an individual who has lived in 3 countries and has friends of various cultures, I am glad to enjoy the interaction it brings.

Wibbs · 10-11-2019 7:24pm

Wibbs wrote: »

There's a huge difference between a load of Chinese folks listening to German speed metal and having a couple of hundred thousand Germans show up in China.

On this point. I have noticed this integration stuff is very much foisted on local White European folks. It tends to be very much one way. If a couple of hundred thousand Germans showed up in China and were given residency, few of the multicultural standard bearers would say that they were now magically Chinese. Better yet if ten thousand Irish people showed up in Nigeria and got residency, few would claim that they were now magically Nigerians, yet ten thousand Nigerians show up in Ireland and get residency we're supposed to say they're now magically Irish and accept that as gospel. Another symptom of this White guilt nonsense IMH.

Tell me how · 10-11-2019 7:28pm

^^^
Whatiffery?

Have a good day. I'm off out.

FixitFelix · 10-11-2019 7:29pm

Lads up and down the country running around like they are representing the bloods or the crips. Gardai too afraid of being called racist to tackle it head on. Need to get back to the days a cracking heads with batons.
And that goes for every scrote out there.

is_that_so · 10-11-2019 7:36pm

A pretty long read on a possible solution to this. The Greentown Study section explains.
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2018/0306/945355-how-irish-crime-gangs-are-a-hidden-threat-to-child-well/

Wibbs · 10-11-2019 7:39pm

Tell me how wrote: »

If you can't see positives in shared experiences of different cultures, food, music, traditions etc then so be it. I suspect, though, that maybe, like others, you do enjoy these elements but would just rather not so many of the people around.

You got it in one. I quite simply don't want to live in and with the ballsology that has befallen every other European nation that has tried this multicultural stuff, or had it imposed on them because of past imperialism(which didn't work out too great either and for much the same reasons).

That's fine, but in a country with so many different cultural individuals working in healthcare for example, from a country which has culturally spread our wings around the world and as an individual who has lived in 3 countries and has friends of various cultures, I am glad to enjoy the interaction it brings.

I'm happy for you. Make no mistake I do admire your openness and naivete, but I prefer to look at the overall results.

And please don't come out with the blindingly simplistic and all too constant refrain of "the Irish went all over the world, so therefore...". 1) the vast majority of those people went to European colonies that were crying out for more bodies. 2) social welfare was nonexistent in such places. 3) they were hated in many quarters and still are in some. And they were White.

And again all we hear of how great "multiculturalism" is comes down to vague examples of food and music and traditions. All of which can be enjoyed or absorbed without 10,000 Albanians or Sudanese showing up in Dublin airport. Nada about the social problems. Not least for the migrants. That's the joke, they usually get the crap end of the deal in the end. The drug addled stabby Blacks in the UK are the great grandkids of those Caribbean folks who went to the UK and worked hard as nurses and bus drivers while facing NO Blacks or Irish signs in digs trying to build new lives.

Wibbs · 10-11-2019 7:46pm

Tell me how wrote: »

^^^
Whatiffery?

Not really. Consider an real world example; the Boers/Dutch of South Africa. They're not exactly considered to be true Africans and they've been there since the 1600's.

Have a good day. I'm off out.

You too and in a while ditto.

Wibbs · 10-11-2019 7:56pm

is_that_so wrote: »

A pretty long read on a possible solution to this. The Greentown Study section explains.
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2018/0306/945355-how-irish-crime-gangs-are-a-hidden-threat-to-child-well/

It's an interesting tack alright I. Note this part:

Though not unique to Ireland, the Greentown network anatomy is distinctive. While accounts of gangs and networks in jurisdictions such as the United States and United Kingdom can be characterised by race, ethnicity, uniform (for example motorcycle gangs) and neighbourhood, the gel that holds the Greentown network together is family and kinship[Emphasis mine].

Now we're adding that into the mix and like other cultures have found to their cost that's a more intractable problem. Racism being an obvious reason. A feeling of not feeling quite like you belong, not quite feeling "local" no matter how long your family have been in the country. EG a White lad from the worst sink estate in Ireland can get out of there and walk down a leafy suburb and "pass" for a local and become fully "local", or their kids certainly can. Not nearly so easy for a Black lad from the same estate. It's no wonder to me at all, that some Black kids are aping their peers in London/LA or whatever. Same with some Muslim folks who look to their wider world. If I were in their shoes I would. It gives them a sense of belonging to a wider group who gets them and it gives a sense of self respect in a world where a load of people just see their skin colour. And it seems to be getting worse, not better. The aforementioned social media helps fuel it. Social workers and social programmes with the best will in the world will find it bloody hard to compete with that.

Junkyard Tom · 10-11-2019 9:56pm

I was talking to my Niece about this last night, who's 19, and apparently this crowd are the laughing stock of the city amongst young people.

Tired Gardener · 10-11-2019 10:02pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually not so much. "Diversity" was more driven by conflict, war and colonisation, trade and exploration came along on the back of that. Even so, if you look at the genetics of the Old World, the vast majority of people's genes can be placed geographically "local" and where later genes are found it's nearly always down to a replacement of the original peoples.

Put it another even more obvious way, if humanity were so into "diversity" and mixing through the ages how come today at least 80,000 years after modern humans left East Africa as a fairly homogeneous group do we have such diverse phenotypes and genotypes in humans today? Surely we'd all look much more similar, especially in such a short space of time in evolutionary terms?

I honestly don't know where to start with this one...

Ok,
There is evidence of trade going as far back as the Neolithic period, From various parts of the world.

There is a lot of real evidence to also suggest that Stonehenge is constructed from stone fom Ireland and Wales. Also Bronze being an alloy needed copper and tin. The largest deposits of Tin in the Europe continent is naturally found in Cornwall and some part of Turkey. There was a vast complex bronze age tade network, so complex that when it collapsed it lead to several large and powerful nations coming to an end. Only Egypt managed to survive.

Trade has been a big part of our history, due to the earth's resources not being uniformly spread across the planet. Yes, sometimes that trade comes through force, and sometimes it is skipped, but to say that trade only came about via colonisation is quite frankly laughably wrong.

As for human variation, this is due to the Earth having a wide range of biomes that have shaped not only our bodies, but also our culture. Living in say a hot desert makes drinking strong alcohol quite dangerous as it dehydrates and can cause one to wonder off and get lost.

https://youtu.be/bRcu-ysocX4

Danzy wrote: »

Thanks for that Maggie Thatcher.

Lots of buzz words but no solution just double down.

Quite ironic calling someone from the North of England who grew up in the 80's by that milk thief's name. Also, what did you hope to gain by invoking that witches name?

Joey Adams wrote: »

Japan: peaceful, prosperous, advanced.

Sweden: third world levels of rape, Islamic terror attacks, 50+ no go zones, grenade attacks are now seen as part and parcel of everyday life.

Really makes you think.

Ok, seems you have fallen for the lie there. Yes, in Sweden the rate of rape increased... However it was because they changed the way they report rape. If a husband raped his wife every day for a year that was previously 1 case of rape, under the new system it would be 365 cases. This was miss reported by a lot of those on the far right who have an agenda.

https://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/

riffmongous · 10-11-2019 10:08pm

Joey Adams wrote: »

Japan: peaceful, prosperous, advanced.

Sweden: third world levels of rape, Islamic terror attacks, 50+ no go zones, grenade attacks are now seen as part and parcel of everyday life.

Really makes you think.

Junkyard Tom · 10-11-2019 10:12pm

Wibbs wrote: »

It's a near constant questioning of European values among many and most in power. Even typing "European values" as something to be valued, or god forbid worse, to be proud of and want to defend will get enough people twitching.

What are European values Wibbs? I'm guessing the ones you're speaking to don't include knocking the shit out of each other for centuries, colonsing people with spears by killing them with machine guns, destroying people's culture, spreading disease, causing famines, industrialised slaughter etc.

Danzy · 10-11-2019 10:14pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

What are European values Wibbs? I'm guessing the ones you're speaking to don't include knocking the shit out of each other for centuries, colonsing people with spears by killing them with machine guns, destroying people's culture, spreading disease, causing famines, industrialised slaughter etc.

Broadly speaking Tom They are human values.

They were common long before Europe and they'll be common long after.

Eric Cartman · 10-11-2019 10:16pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

What are European values Wibbs? I'm guessing the ones you're speaking to don't include knocking the shit out of each other for centuries, colonsing people with spears by killing them with machine guns, destroying people's culture, spreading disease, causing famines, industrialised slaughter etc.

well, learning from history and believing in democracy and not throwing people off buildings for their sexuality or believing that women and lamps have a similar amount of self determination is a nice start europe has going for it.

SafeSurfer · 10-11-2019 10:27pm

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

I've never been in Cork but the darkest day in Ulster's history happened there in 1603, some of my relatives probably saw action in Kinsale given that I have 3 lines of O'neill ancestry, most likely more.

If they turned up for the battle of Kinsale in 1603 they would have been a little late.

Mr E · 10-11-2019 10:30pm

Mod: Let's stick to Cork for this thread, cheers.

Tired Gardener · 10-11-2019 10:30pm

Joey Adams wrote: »

That's reassuring until you remember that Sweden censors it's crime stats (ethnicity is not reported) and rapes at music festivals were covered up by the police and media.

I don't believe one word your bs government says, and neither should you Sven.

Quite convenient to cite some sort of cover over, does create a 'water tight' logically fallacy... a bit like flat earther's and their need to resort to cover ups to keep their conspiracy theory chugging along.

Tell me how · 10-11-2019 10:47pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

There is the argument:

What is wrong with being Irish? This is Ireland.

Don't get me wrong - I like chinese or indian food as much as the next person - but when it starts to feel our Irishness is being put at a different level of priority I don't think that is right or fair.

Why is it western European countries seem to have to have their indigenous cultures mixed out and this does not seem to apply to the rest of the world?

Everywhere else seems to make bloody well sure their own people and culture come first. They welcome other cultures and nationalities but it's very much on the basis that the indigenous population are top dog in society.

I worry our destiny is what is happening in Sweden.

I am very proudly Irish. I love the country, the accents, the traditions, the cuisine and the personalities.

I don't see welcoming others as diluting or removing what is Irish.
Can you say that France, Spain, England, Scotland, Sweden, Germany no longer possess any of that which they consider their indigenous populations or traditions.

I don't think so. In all cases, as in Ireland, the US, etc, there are cases where other cultures exist, but they co-exist, they have not replaced the natives by any stretch.

Also, I feel many people have a problem with Irish culture being replaced but less of a fondness for supporting Irish culture. Shops closing down as people move to online shopping, pubs closing as people get off license drinks and stay at home, hardly anyone speaking the Irish language. National soccer league averaging may be 2,000 per game while more than that travel to UK every week to watch 'their' team.

walshb · 10-11-2019 10:52pm

SporadicMan wrote: »

What the **** is happening to this country?

From my reading the last while, I really think this country is facing a huge increase in lawlessness.....Am I exaggerating?

Tell me how · 10-11-2019 10:58pm

Wibbs wrote: »

You got it in one. I quite simply don't want to live in and with the ballsology that has befallen every other European nation that has tried this multicultural stuff, or had it imposed on them because of past imperialism(which didn't work out too great either and for much the same reasons).

I'm happy for you. Make no mistake I do admire your openness and naivete, but I prefer to look at the overall results.

And please don't come out with the blindingly simplistic and all too constant refrain of "the Irish went all over the world, so therefore...". 1) the vast majority of those people went to European colonies that were crying out for more bodies. 2) social welfare was nonexistent in such places. 3) they were hated in many quarters and still are in some. And they were White.

And again all we hear of how great "multiculturalism" is comes down to vague examples of food and music and traditions. All of which can be enjoyed or absorbed without 10,000 Albanians or Sudanese showing up in Dublin airport. Nada about the social problems. Not least for the migrants. That's the joke, they usually get the crap end of the deal in the end. The drug addled stabby Blacks in the UK are the great grandkids of those Caribbean folks who went to the UK and worked hard as nurses and bus drivers while facing NO Blacks or Irish signs in digs trying to build new lives.

You seem eager to take the examples of what are particular events (drug addled stabby blacks (quite the phrase it must be said)) and taking that as the norm. It isn't. What numbers are taking part in such practices as any sort of a percentage of those considered migrants?

Also, the migrants would be much better off if we didn't treat them like a bad smell once they got here.

And this thing of 'don't talk about the Irish who travelled' is BS. We did travel, we did work, but having attended the famine memorial in Boston just a few weeks ago, it is interesting how the reaction of many locals was exactly the same as what we are seeing in certain quarters back home now. Also, the world was a much different place when many Irish travelled in the case of having the authority to work. The days of rocking up and asking 'any chance of a start' as many Irish used to get their foot in the door is no longer possible in any country. We were just lucky, in a way, to have been able to travel so much before the opportunities became so restricted.

2Mad2BeMad · 10-11-2019 11:24pm

sdanseo wrote: »

The real irony here is the association of JD Sports and "good quality clothing".
Normal functioning contributing members of society shouldnt wear a tracksuit outside, unless actually exercising.

What?

mikeym · 10-11-2019 11:31pm

I wonder will there be a repeat attack?

Roversfan1 · 11-11-2019 12:40am

Tell me how wrote: »

Also, the migrants would be much better off if we didn't treat them like a bad smell once they got here.

We never got a vote on whether we wanted this or not. Treat them like a bad smell? What are you on about? Are we not giving enough free houses and entitlements?

Honestly, we'd have a lot less problems if we didn't allow this influx of people.

Tell me how · 11-11-2019 1:06am

Relevant article

The story of the Irish Famine orphan girls shipped to Australia
Many of the 4,000 teenagers faced anti-Irish sentiment, discrimination and abuse , but were a resilient group

An excerpt from The Argus, which was Melbourne’s main newspaper of the day, on April 4th, 1850 said: “Another ship-load of female immigrants from Ireland has reached our shores, and yet, though everybody is crying out against the monstrous infliction, and the palpable waste of the immigration fund, furnished by the colonists in bringing out these worthless characters …”.

Another excerpt from The Argus on April 24th, 1850 of a citizen echoed society’s clamour:

“The whole country cries out against the further admission into our colony, of such degraded beings as the majority of the female orphans have been found.

Nor has their cry been raised without reason, for we venture to say, every vessel that brings an increase of this kind to our female population, brings a melancholy increase to the vice and lewdness that is now to seem rampant in every part of our town. From this class we have received no good servants for the wealthier classes in the towns, no efficient farm servants for the rural population, no virtuous, and industrious young women, fit wives for the labouring part of the community; and by the introduction of whom a strong barrier would be erected against the floods of iniquity that are now sweeping every trace of morality from the most public thoroughfares of our city.”

Tell me how · 11-11-2019 1:09am

Roversfan1 wrote: »

We never got a vote on whether we wanted this or not. Treat them like a bad smell? What are you on about? Are we not giving enough free houses and entitlements?

Honestly, we'd have a lot less problems if we didn't allow this influx of people.

Well, if we had less people in the country, of course there would be more resources available. Ultimately though there would also be less revenue generated from tax and purchasing etc. Also, given the numbers of foreigners that work in the health system, if none of them were here, there may also be other issues.

I think many though use this angle as a weak excuse. They are similar voices as those that appear on threads about housing and social welfare which, to me, would indicate they are consistent only in their approach of thinking, as long as it isn't me suffering, we shouldn't be spending money on this issue.

Roversfan1 · 11-11-2019 1:18am

Tell me how wrote: »

Well, if we had less people in the country, of course there would be more resources available. Ultimately though there would also be less revenue generated from tax and purchasing etc. Also, given the numbers of foreigners that work in the health system, if none of them were here, there may also be other issues.

I think many though use this angle as a weak excuse. They are similar voices as those that appear on threads about housing and social welfare which, to me, would indicate they are consistent only in their approach of thinking, as long as it isn't me suffering, we shouldn't be spending money on this issue.

It is nothing to do with numbers.....if we had immigration from Japan instead we would not have these problems. You would not see a 60% unemployment rate for Japanese or Chinese or Polish for example.

This is just some stuff that we will now have to deal with and our children and their children will have to deal with which would not have been the case if we had none of this immigration.

As I said, we never voted for this.

Tell me how · 11-11-2019 1:28am

Roversfan1 wrote: »

It is nothing to do with numbers.....if we had immigration from Japan instead we would not have these problems. You would not see a 60% unemployment rate for Japanese or Chinese or Polish for example.

This is just some stuff that we will now have to deal with and our children and their children will have to deal with which would not have been the case if we had none of this immigration.

As I said, we never voted for this.

We voted for our parliament members from which the government was formed to enact legislation for the country.

You can't have a management by committee on every little topic.

Woodsie1 · 11-11-2019 1:38am

Tell me how wrote: »

We voted for our parliament members from which the government was formed to enact legislation for the country.

You can't have a management by committee on every little topic.

Hardly a "little topic" now is it?

Tell me how · 11-11-2019 1:56am

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Hardly a "little topic" now is it?

Where would you rate it amongst these topics (in no particular order).

Government Budget
Healthcare spending
Infrastructure projects
Justice system
Transport Strategy
Education reform
Migrant Strategy
Business and industry supports strategy
Climate and the environment.

Do you think we should all vote on the specifics of each of these items or do you think a migrant strategy is the most important item on the list?

Woodsie1 · 11-11-2019 2:21am

Tell me how wrote: »

Where would you rate it amongst these topics (in no particular order).

Government Budget
Healthcare spending
Infrastructure projects
Justice system
Transport Strategy
Education reform
Migrant Strategy
Business and industry supports strategy
Climate and the environment.

Do you think we should all vote on the specifics of each of these items or do you think a migrant strategy is the most important item on the list?

Maybe you should answer the question first.
Youve an awful habit of playing the whatabout game when your not comfortable.

Tell me how · 11-11-2019 2:52am

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Maybe you should answer the question first.
Youve an awful habit of playing the whatabout game when your not comfortable.

I'm sorry, what are you talking about?

I mean, I know the subject being discussed, but I have no idea the point you are trying to make in this post.

And, I'm not uncomfortable, but thank you for being concerned.

suicide_circus · 11-11-2019 9:53am

Mr E wrote: »

Mod: Let's stick to Cork for this thread, cheers.

to get back on topic:

Obviously the fact that 100 youths organised a raid on a business is bad. Is it more bad (worse) if it is conclusively proven that these youths were in the main from "new" communities?

I would say the crime remains the same but it suggests that we have gone down the same route as the rest of Europe ie: new communities are sticking with their own and are not really integrating. fair?

topper75 · 11-11-2019 10:44am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

"accused " ?

RTE are themselves one of the main drivers of the new PC authoritarianism

Very much an agenda-driven org.

I flicked across the channel on Sat night. I landed on RTÉ and saw Ray D'arcy had a crew on to talk about the asylum thing. He had two people who are now living in Ireland by means of the asylum process and then two Irish cheerleaders: Rea the actor and a girl who was head of the emigration museum. There was nobody with any kind of opposing voice.

I'll leave it up to your imagination on whether D'arcy asked any hard questions of them or even tried to play devil's advocate.

topper75 · 11-11-2019 10:51am

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Hardly a "little topic" now is it?

Well said. It is certainly a little more important on the minimum age of the president. They threw us that little bone easily enough didn't they?

The people of Ireland did get to vote at least on the anchor baby madness (thanks to McDowell, an old-style politician with balls).

It was no split decision let me tell you. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

Wibbs · 11-11-2019 11:49am

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

What are European values Wibbs? I'm guessing the ones you're speaking to don't include knocking the shit out of each other for centuries, colonsing people with spears by killing them with machine guns, destroying people's culture, spreading disease, causing famines, industrialised slaughter etc.

Pick any world culture and they did the same. It's what humans tend to do, though to be fair Europeans seem to have been the "best" at it. In that sense they're probably the most dangerous population on the planet. However, on the other side of the balance sheet the modern world culture is very much European in nature, from large aspects of culture itself, through technology and human rights.

Tired Gardener wrote: »

Trade has been a big part of our history, due to the earth's resources not being uniformly spread across the planet. Yes, sometimes that trade comes through force, and sometimes it is skipped, but to say that trade only came about via colonisation is quite frankly laughably wrong.

It didn't only come via colonisation and violence, but that has been a feature of trade, right back to the same neolithic. There's plenty of evidence for that too and that's from a time when population densities were a fraction of what they became. When such densities reach a certain point then it's a near guarantee of conflict and colonisation over resources. Hell, the vast majority of Europeans today come from neolithic farmers that spread from the middle east and replaced the palaeolithic peoples that were here before.

As for human variation, this is due to the Earth having a wide range of biomes that have shaped not only our bodies, but also our culture. Living in say a hot desert makes drinking strong alcohol quite dangerous as it dehydrates and can cause one to wonder off and get lost.

Indeed, though the variation happened remarkably quickly considering the time frame involved and at the same time has remained remarkably stable when such variations have sprung up and travel and encountering other cultures became easier. Human groups and cultures tend to "stick to their own". Even in long standing multicultural regions this tends to be a strong trend. Take somewhere like Brazil with it's centuries long mix of European, African and Native American peoples. While each group will have genetic admixture from another group(s), they're all still overwhelmingly European, African and Native American in genetic makeup.

Tell me how wrote: »

You seem eager to take the examples of what are particular events (drug addled stabby blacks (quite the phrase it must be said)) and taking that as the norm. It isn't. What numbers are taking part in such practices as any sort of a percentage of those considered migrants?

In the UK who is more likely to be poor and involved in antisocial behaviour and crime: An AfroCaribbean, a European, an East Asian?

Also, the migrants would be much better off if we didn't treat them like a bad smell once they got here.

No doubt, but we, or at least many do treat them like that. I do not deny it. Racism is a major issue - and not just in one direction, but one that isn't going away any time soon.

And this thing of 'don't talk about the Irish who travelled' is BS. We did travel, we did work, but having attended the famine memorial in Boston just a few weeks ago, it is interesting how the reaction of many locals was exactly the same as what we are seeing in certain quarters back home now. Also, the world was a much different place when many Irish travelled in the case of having the authority to work. The days of rocking up and asking 'any chance of a start' as many Irish used to get their foot in the door is no longer possible in any country. We were just lucky, in a way, to have been able to travel so much before the opportunities became so restricted.

I've read some vague and at cross purposes stuff in my time, but that is surely up for some sort of prize... Never mind that you didn't address the points I made.

Wibbs · 11-11-2019 11:54am

topper75 wrote: »

I'll leave it up to your imagination on whether D'arcy asked any hard questions of them or even tried to play devil's advocate.

To be fair T, for all the back and forth on this thread, I think there is at least one thing we would all be in agreement on and that's Ray D'Arcy couldn't ask a hard question on any matter if his life depended on it.

Kivaro · 11-11-2019 11:57am

Roversfan1 wrote: »

It is nothing to do with numbers.....if we had immigration from Japan instead we would not have these problems. You would not see a 60% unemployment rate for Japanese or Chinese or Polish for example.

This is just some stuff that we will now have to deal with and our children and their children will have to deal with which would not have been the case if we had none of this immigration.

As I said, we never voted for this.

We will be able to vote our displeasure at the next General Election.
Unfortunately, the pickings are very slim. Fianna Fail are as bad as Fine Gael with their virtue signaling about asylum seekers. Their presupposition is that every single asylum applicant is 100% genuine; irrespective of whether they are from Nigeria, Pakistan, Albania or Georgia. The evidence overwhelmingly proves otherwise.

But a message needs to be sent to Charlie Flanagan and Simon Coveney.
The justice department is trying to enforce Coveney's edict of having diversity in every single village and town in Ireland by ramming direct provisions centers or asylum accommodation in remote 'un-provisioned' areas around the country.

I recommend a social experiment: Let's put all future direct provision centres and asylum accommodation in the constituencies of Charlie Flanagan and Simon Coveney. They will be easily re-elected if the voters agree with their stance. Let Flanagan and Coveney lead by example with their constituencies.

Wibbs · 11-11-2019 12:09pm

Kivaro wrote: »

Their presupposition is that every single asylum applicant is 100% genuine; irrespective of whether they are from Nigeria, Pakistan, Albania or Georgia. The evidence overwhelmingly proves otherwise.

Thankfully those in the department tasked with sifting through the applications are not taking this presupposition as a reality and are rejecting the vast majority of these so called "asylum" applicants. Essentially only Syrian folks are getting in, the rest from elsewhere are rejected. Being an island nation far from the Mediterranean has also helped us.

Raconteuse · 11-11-2019 12:21pm

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Giuliani style policing in city centers. New York was a serious kip in the early 1980’s. They basically put a cop on every block so if there was an incident then a cop was rarely more than a minute a way. It made New York safer and ultimately a place that people wanted to visit and live in.

I wouldn’t put an animal in Cork.

Ah god love anyone who thinks Cork is rough (I mean in general - obviously this incident is beyond scummy).

Kivaro · 11-11-2019 12:47pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Thankfully those in the department tasked with sifting through the applications are not taking this presupposition as a reality and are rejecting the vast majority of these so called "asylum" applicants. Essentially only Syrian folks are getting in, the rest from elsewhere are rejected. Being an island nation far from the Mediterranean has also helped us.

The problem though is the housing and welfare of all those rejected asylum seekers prior to that determination. The vast majority of these applicants from places like Albania etc. are housed and looked after for many years due to the appeal system. Hence the requirement for substantial housing all over the country for these applicants.
Greece experienced a similar problem; albeit on a much larger scale, so they recently passed a bill that stipulated that all asylum requests would be handled within 60 days.

We need to do something similar, and in parallel Ireland needs a system that helps refugees integrate into Irish society in a manner where we do see the incidences that occurred in Cork over the weekend.

Berserker · 11-11-2019 1:10pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

If 100 youths tried this in the 80s the guards would have knocked the living daylights out of them.
Which is why 100 youths would not have attempted such scumbaggery.

And their own parents would have knocked the living daylights out of them also. Far too many people in Ireland are not fit to be parents.

SporadicMan wrote: »

Lads, is anti-social behaviour particularly bad in Ireland?

Ireland is well on it's way also. Laughed off calls for transport police in Ireland based on my experience as a rail user during peak hours. Had reason to use the Maynooth line into Connolly on two occasions recently, during off-peak hours and I can see why people are calling for transport police. Teenagers, guys and girls, fighting. One girl who was about sixteen years old, told an OAP that she was going to get her b/f to "f-ing split him open" because he had the audacity to ask her to turn down her music. Another young lad told a thirty something year old woman that he wanted to "ride the ...... off her". These kids were middle class children from Leixlip and Leixlip Confey. We approached the security in Connolly about it and they told us to bugger off.

On a side note, two or three of the teenagers kept making the point that this is "modern Ireland". Can anyone tell me what that was supposed to mean?

NasserShammaz wrote: »

Here's a clue Charlie Flanagan most of the runts will be in a Christian or born again church on Sunday with their parents.

What are you on about? Is this some baseless jibe aimed at people who are born again?

Kivaro wrote: »

So instead of waiting for similar statistics to happen in Ireland, why not have a genuine discussion about the problem now?

If you want to have a conversation like that then you are going to be classified as racist, fascist, right wing .....

Organised Raid by up to 100 Youths in Cork City Centr

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