STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

Bass Reeves · 14-09-2020 8:05pm

Maximus_1 wrote: »

Looking for some guidance on insert/casette stoves. Going to bite the bullet and move on from the open fire. New surround needed also. The fireplace opening is 16", room dimensions 4.3M X 4.5M and 2.5M ceiling. House insulation is decent as 12 years old, double doors into kitchen and one singe door into hall, one rad in the room.

My query is around sizing firstly. Stove calculators online come up with around 4.5Kw needed for those dimensions. I've read/heard some conflicting advice on what I should do, get one exactly close to that at 5kW or higher at 6 or 7. I am wary of getting a 5kW in case its not enough, am I right in thinking that a 5kW stoves says 5 as the max not the median type output? If so I assume up to 6 is fine?

I had my eye on a Stovax Riva 500 which is 7kW but it might be too much stove for the room at 7. Also size wise its too large for my 16" fireplace without breaking out some space either side. Can anyone advise on how many kWs I need? Are the online calculators accurate I would you say I need to add 25%?

Next question relates to manufacturers.

The Vitae range by Heatdesign look well https://www.heatdesign.ie/product/vitae-6kw-cassette-stove/

Are they good quality?

Henley?

Arada Stoves? For example https://www.aradastoves.com/i500/p36737

I've been put off Stanley by a few people regarding their quality, I used to think they were the gold standard!?

Finally getting it fitted. If I don't buy from the local shop who do supply fitting for example would a regular plumber be best? There isn't an actual Irish stove fitting cert I understand. Somebody competent though I won't be cutting corners there.

Stoves are a unit you can spend as much or as little as you want to within reason.In reality they is very little moving parts. After that it a matter of personnel choice of what you want in the line of air wash, venting and the actual physical look of the stove.

On ratings. You really need to know how this was calculated. Alot of stoves are sold as multi fuel. In this case the calculations is done with coal or smokeless coal a lot of the time. If you intend burning wood only check that it was rated as a log burning stove. Finally if you intend burning wood in it make sure the stove box is large enough. For a stove to be efficient it must be burning at about 90% capacity. What this means is there is no point in getting a 10KW stove if you only need 5KW as the stove will waste energy with a smaller fire in it.

Burning coal is the main reason why stoves parts can burn out. I have a Stanley Eirn and use mainly wood (about 80% of the fuel used) and a small bit of turf and smokeless nuggets at the start to get it going. It nearly 30 years old and I have only ever replaced the fire bricks once and the grate( it warped) once. It no where near as efficient as modern stoves but it unlikly it will be replaced as it is still physically perfect looking.

steamsey · 14-09-2020 11:05pm

Maximus_1 wrote: »

Looking for some guidance on insert/casette stoves. Going to bite the bullet and move on from the open fire. New surround needed also. The fireplace opening is 16", room dimensions 4.3M X 4.5M and 2.5M ceiling. House insulation is decent as 12 years old, double doors into kitchen and one singe door into hall, one rad in the room.

My query is around sizing firstly. Stove calculators online come up with around 4.5Kw needed for those dimensions. I've read/heard some conflicting advice on what I should do, get one exactly close to that at 5kW or higher at 6 or 7. I am wary of getting a 5kW in case its not enough, am I right in thinking that a 5kW stoves says 5 as the max not the median type output? If so I assume up to 6 is fine?

I had my eye on a Stovax Riva 500 which is 7kW but it might be too much stove for the room at 7. Also size wise its too large for my 16" fireplace without breaking out some space either side. Can anyone advise on how many kWs I need? Are the online calculators accurate I would you say I need to add 25%?

Next question relates to manufacturers.

The Vitae range by Heatdesign look well https://www.heatdesign.ie/product/vitae-6kw-cassette-stove/

Are they good quality?

Henley?

Arada Stoves? For example https://www.aradastoves.com/i500/p36737

I've been put off Stanley by a few people regarding their quality, I used to think they were the gold standard!?

Finally getting it fitted. If I don't buy from the local shop who do supply fitting for example would a regular plumber be best? There isn't an actual Irish stove fitting cert I understand. Somebody competent though I won't be cutting corners there.

Got the vitae 6kw earlier this year. Happy so far. Feels well made. Heats large living room and small kitchen (no door between them). Get the good flue, don't scrimp on that.

upupup · 15-09-2020 9:01am

Maximus_1 wrote: »

Looking for some guidance on insert/casette stoves. Going to bite the bullet and move on from the open fire. New surround needed also. The fireplace opening is 16", room dimensions 4.3M X 4.5M and 2.5M ceiling. House insulation is decent as 12 years old, double doors into kitchen and one singe door into hall, one rad in the room.

My query is around sizing firstly. Stove calculators online come up with around 4.5Kw needed for those dimensions. I've read/heard some conflicting advice on what I should do, get one exactly close to that at 5kW or higher at 6 or 7. I am wary of getting a 5kW in case its not enough, am I right in thinking that a 5kW stoves says 5 as the max not the median type output? If so I assume up to 6 is fine?

I had my eye on a Stovax Riva 500 which is 7kW but it might be too much stove for the room at 7. Also size wise its too large for my 16" fireplace without breaking out some space either side. Can anyone advise on how many kWs I need? Are the online calculators accurate I would you say I need to add 25%?

Next question relates to manufacturers.

The Vitae range by Heatdesign look well https://www.heatdesign.ie/product/vitae-6kw-cassette-stove/

Are they good quality?

Henley?

Arada Stoves? For example https://www.aradastoves.com/i500/p36737

I've been put off Stanley by a few people regarding their quality, I used to think they were the gold standard!?

Finally getting it fitted. If I don't buy from the local shop who do supply fitting for example would a regular plumber be best? There isn't an actual Irish stove fitting cert I understand. Somebody competent though I won't be cutting corners there.

If the stove is 5kw then burning at full capacity with hottest fuel allowed will give you 5kw max and probably less.

You should go a bit higher than what the calculator says and also higher again because it is an insert which are slower to give out heat than a stand alone stove.
about 7kw or more is what i'd recommend,you can open the double door if it gets too hot but you will regret doing all that work if you are sitting in the room that's only lukewarm.
I'v being burning coal for years with no problems and its the hottest fuel you can buy.Iv had a stanley and now have a boru.If your stove gets too hot you can burn wood/briquettes and if you need more heat(cold winters night) you burn coal so a multi fuel also gives you more options on heat

Bass Reeves · 15-09-2020 11:21am

upupup wrote: »

If the stove is 5kw then burning at full capacity with hottest fuel allowed will give you 5kw max and probably less.

You should go a bit higher than what the calculator says and also higher again because it is an insert which are slower to give out heat than a stand alone stove.
about 7kw or more is what i'd recommend,you can open the double door if it gets too hot but you will regret doing all that work if you are sitting in the room that's only lukewarm.
I'v being burning coal for years with no problems and its the hottest fuel you can buy.Iv had a stanley and now have a boru.If your stove gets too hot you can burn wood/briquettes and if you need more heat(cold winters night) you burn coal so a multi fuel also gives you more options on heat

Also you can get stove fans that are activated by heat. these work better with an ordinary stove as opposed to a insert

Maximus_1 · 15-09-2020 9:34pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Stoves are a unit you can spend as much or as little as you want to within reason.In reality they is very little moving parts. After that it a matter of personnel choice of what you want in the line of air wash, venting and the actual physical look of the stove.

On ratings. You really need to know how this was calculated. Alot of stoves are sold as multi fuel. In this case the calculations is done with coal or smokeless coal a lot of the time. If you intend burning wood only check that it was rated as a log burning stove. Finally if you intend burning wood in it make sure the stove box is large enough. For a stove to be efficient it must be burning at about 90% capacity. What this means is there is no point in getting a 10KW stove if you only need 5KW as the stove will waste energy with a smaller fire in it.

Burning coal is the main reason why stoves parts can burn out. I have a Stanley Eirn and use mainly wood (about 80% of the fuel used) and a small bit of turf and smokeless nuggets at the start to get it going. It nearly 30 years old and I have only ever replaced the fire bricks once and the grate( it warped) once. It no where near as efficient as modern stoves but it unlikly it will be replaced as it is still physically perfect looking.

Many thanks for this comprehensive reply. I can see that sizing is crucial with what you say there about the 90% capacity

Maximus_1 · 15-09-2020 9:36pm

steamsey wrote: »

Got the vitae 6kw earlier this year. Happy so far. Feels well made. Heats large living room and small kitchen (no door between them). Get the good flue, don't scrimp on that.

Thanks for the recommendation. Based on that it should be sufficient for my room though the next post has me thinking!

Maximus_1 · 15-09-2020 9:42pm

upupup wrote: »

If the stove is 5kw then burning at full capacity with hottest fuel allowed will give you 5kw max and probably less.

You should go a bit higher than what the calculator says and also higher again because it is an insert which are slower to give out heat than a stand alone stove.
about 7kw or more is what i'd recommend,you can open the double door if it gets too hot but you will regret doing all that work if you are sitting in the room that's only lukewarm.
I'v being burning coal for years with no problems and its the hottest fuel you can buy.Iv had a stanley and now have a boru.If your stove gets too hot you can burn wood/briquettes and if you need more heat(cold winters night) you burn coal so a multi fuel also gives you more options on heat

Thank you for the advice. I'm definitely getting at least a 6.6 or higher now so! I was talking to a fella who has the Stovax Riva 50 which is 7kW and a good stove, he reckons it would be too hot for our room. Decisions decisions!

Something with as wide a glass panel as possible as I do love looking at the aul open fire!

Seamai · 15-09-2020 10:05pm

I have a wood burning Stovax Riva Vision Midi (up to 7kw). We were going to get the next size up as it's in a large open plan room, living/dining/kitchen (about 47m2) but glad we didn't as the house is insulated to a very high level and it's more than adequate. It's got a good size glass panel so you get that real fire feel.
Don't let anyone tell you that the you need coal for heat, everyone tried to persuade me that I did and should go for a multi fuel option. My concern was that lighting a wood only fire would be more difficult but it's childs play and far cleaner. This model as it sits out proud from the wall and radiates heat for hours after the fire goes out.

batman1 · 18-09-2020 8:06am

I have an insert boiler stove. The chimney liner has failed now twice due to a bend in the chimney which means it's extremely difficult to fit correctly. It's a semi d with a shared chimney so we can't remove the bend either.
With the insert stove, changing the liner is a huge job.
So, we are planning on changing the stove to a freestanding one .
My question really is can I just use the standard chimney instead of fitting another liner in the hope it won't fail again.
I know for efficiency it's recommended but what other things should I consider?

dodo87 · 18-09-2020 9:55am

Hi all,

Hope someone can help. I have read through a lot of the comments but there are quiet a few and still haven't found what I am wondering. I have just bought a bungalow built in the 80s and plan is to get it a stove ASAP. Main source of heat in the house is coal and oil. Boiler is old needs to be replaced. BER rating is E1 on the house but getting it pumped next week and the attic insulated. What I am wondering is should I get a free standing or insert stove in the living room which is 4.5x4.5x2.5m house its self is 145m2. Is there much of a difference between the 2? Also Is it worth getting a boiler stove option to help with the heating? Probably 8 or 9 rads in the house. Are the boiler options good at heating the rads? Thanks in advance

Forge83 · 18-09-2020 11:40am

batman1 wrote: »

I have an insert boiler stove. The chimney liner has failed now twice due to a bend in the chimney which means it's extremely difficult to fit correctly. It's a semi d with a shared chimney so we can't remove the bend either.
With the insert stove, changing the liner is a huge job.
So, we are planning on changing the stove to a freestanding one .
My question really is can I just use the standard chimney instead of fitting another liner in the hope it won't fail again.
I know for efficiency it's recommended but what other things should I consider?

This could be a solution for you.
http://www.kcbs.ie/chimney-relining/

upupup · 18-09-2020 1:09pm

dodo87 wrote: »

Hi all,

Hope someone can help. I have read through a lot of the comments but there are quiet a few and still haven't found what I am wondering. I have just bought a bungalow built in the 80s and plan is to get it a stove ASAP. Main source of heat in the house is coal and oil. Boiler is old needs to be replaced. BER rating is E1 on the house but getting it pumped next week and the attic insulated. What I am wondering is should I get a free standing or insert stove in the living room which is 4.5x4.5x2.5m house its self is 145m2. Is there much of a difference between the 2? Also Is it worth getting a boiler stove option to help with the heating? Probably 8 or 9 rads in the house. Are the boiler options good at heating the rads? Thanks in advance

A stand alone stove will be warmer than an inset as the heat source is in the room and not in the wall and since your house is not insulated to high standards then i would recommend a stand alone.The insets look great but give out heat slower so they are best suited to warmer well insulated houses and you can also have a problem with heat going up the chimney.

Boiler stoves heat the rads the same as oil and if you have rads already then it doesn't take a lot to plumb one into your heating system.
A non boiler will be cheaper to install then a boiler.
Its best practice to line the chimney with a flexi flue too.

dodo87 · 18-09-2020 1:18pm

upupup wrote: »

A stand alone stove will be warmer than an inset as the heat source is in the room and not in the wall and since your house is not insulated to high standards then i would recommend a stand alone.The insets look great but give out heat slower so they are best suited to warmer well insulated houses and you can also have a problem with heat going up the chimney.

Boiler stoves heat the rads the same as oil and if you have rads already then it doesn't take a lot to plumb one into your heating system.
A stand alone will be cheaper to install then a boiler.
Its best practice to line the chimney with a flexi flue too.

Thanks so much for the advice!

CodeJACK · 24-09-2020 4:20pm

I'm looking to get a small <5Kw stove installed in my house that I'm also trying to make as air tight as a 1950 retrofit can be. So I'm looking for a stove that runs of an external air supply.

Anyone done or know if its possible to get this air from the chimney flu beside it in the other room. Its been bricked up but still open to the air at the top. Would it be too long to draw air down or simply not possible for other reasons?

coL · 25-09-2020 12:24pm

Looking to get a definitive answer on what exacly is invovled in servicing an inset stove?

Coming into the winter my chimney needs to be cleaned and while all of the people I rang will do a chnimey clean a few have promised to do different things to the stove itself under the vague term 'servicing' (for an extra fee of course!!).

The stove is only a year old so I don't think it needs a massive amount of work this year but going forward it would be nice to know what, if anything, I should be getting done to it on an annual basis to keep it in good condition.

The things that spring to mind are:

- The rope around the door (from what I understand this is a consumable item that is replaced regularly)
- The fire bricks (to be replaced once they get too old or broken)
- Checking the screws and bolts holding on the fire bricks and the baffle to make sure they are not seized/corroded

Am I missing something obvious in terms of what needs regular attention or servicing?

Obviously it goes without saying that an annual chimney clean is essential.

upupup · 25-09-2020 3:29pm

coL wrote: »

Looking to get a definitive answer on what exacly is invovled in servicing an inset stove?

Coming into the winter my chimney needs to be cleaned and while all of the people I rang will do a chnimey clean a few have promised to do different things to the stove itself under the vague term 'servicing' (for an extra fee of course!!).

The stove is only a year old so I don't think it needs a massive amount of work this year but going forward it would be nice to know what, if anything, I should be getting done to it on an annual basis to keep it in good condition.

The things that spring to mind are:

- The rope around the door (from what I understand this is a consumable item that is replaced regularly)
- The fire bricks (to be replaced once they get too old or broken)
- Checking the screws and bolts holding on the fire bricks and the baffle to make sure they are not seized/corroded

Am I missing something obvious in terms of what needs regular attention or servicing?

Obviously it goes without saying that an annual chimney clean is essential.

You have got years before any of those problems arise and they may never arise,,,,clean the chimney and relax:)

upupup · 25-09-2020 3:32pm

CodeJACK wrote: »

I'm looking to get a small <5Kw stove installed in my house that I'm also trying to make as air tight as a 1950 retrofit can be. So I'm looking for a stove that runs of an external air supply.

Anyone done or know if its possible to get this air from the chimney flu beside it in the other room. Its been bricked up but still open to the air at the top. Would it be too long to draw air down or simply not possible for other reasons?

Seems like a good idea. I don't see any problem

billcullen1 · 25-09-2020 4:34pm

I recently had a few chimney sweeps out, to quote for lining the chinmey with a flexi flu. However I am surprised by the costs involved,with the stove been taken out, holes in the chimney at the bottom and bedrooms along with the attic. In addition extra such as new pots,cowl, skip to be included.Does anyone have any idea of the costs involved and possibility any recommendations ? much appreciated !

Bass Reeves · 25-09-2020 5:00pm

billcullen1 wrote: »

I recently had a few chimney sweeps out, to quote for lining the chinmey with a flexi flu. However I am surprised by the costs involved,with the stove been taken out, holes in the chimney at the bottom and bedrooms along with the attic. In addition extra such as new pots,cowl, skip to be included.Does anyone have any idea of the costs involved and possibility any recommendations ? much appreciated !

Has the chimney got flue liners. Is it one or two stories high. Why do they need so many holes?? Sounds like an old house

billcullen1 · 25-09-2020 5:14pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Has the chimney got flue liners. Is it one or two stories high. Why do they need so many holes?? Sounds like an old house

It's a two story house. Modern enough.no flu liners currently, looking to get them installed. I can't understand why they need to make so many holes either ?

CodeJACK · 26-09-2020 12:43am

billcullen1 wrote: »

It's a two story house. Modern enough.no flu liners currently, looking to get them installed. I can't understand why they need to make so many holes either ?

I had this done to a two story property some years ago where the existing clay liner had cracked and collapsed in places so fitting a flue would have been impossible. The guy doing it explained that the clay liner had sand behind it and they punch holes through to gradually break out the clay lining completely and remove any sand/filler. Your then left with the outer brick construction of the chimney that a liner is fitted to and sealed at the fireplace and at the roof. The stainless liner was pinned at either end but left "swinging" in the space as much as the stainless flue would allow i.e: not at all, they are pretty stiff.

oleras · 26-09-2020 9:52am

^^

I am sure they would have packed vermiculite between the blocks and the SS flu.

CodeJACK · 26-09-2020 9:57am

oleras wrote: »

^^

I am sure they would have packed vermiculite between the blocks and the SS flu.

I don't recall them doing that. Maybe it was done while I wasn't around.

upupup · 26-09-2020 10:16am

billcullen1 wrote: »

It's a two story house. Modern enough.no flu liners currently, looking to get them installed. I can't understand why they need to make so many holes either ?

It's odd that you say there are no flue liners in the chimney

.if you want to put in a new flexi flue or steel flue then you don't need clay flue liner pots.
If there are clay pots in the chimney that are damaged, then they probably need to be removed and that is why you need holes and a skip as it is a big job to remove pots and sand/filling

On the previous page there is a post by forge83 with a possible solution but I don't know if it would be cheaper but worth a phone call anyway

Bass Reeves · 26-09-2020 12:54pm

CodeJACK wrote: »

I had this done to a two story property some years ago where the existing clay liner had cracked and collapsed in places so fitting a flue would have been impossible. The guy doing it explained that the clay liner had sand behind it and they punch holes through to gradually break out the clay lining completely and remove any sand/filler. Your then left with the outer brick construction of the chimney that a liner is fitted to and sealed at the fireplace and at the roof. The stainless liner was pinned at either end but left "swinging" in the space as much as the stainless flue would allow i.e: not at all, they are pretty stiff.

I Have seen a job like that done but the installer only broke out the damaged pot loose lean mix, he then proceed to pull in continuous flue and put vermiculite around it. This should be sufficient unless clay liners were collapsed in 2-3 places. It not a good idea to knock out all liners as ideally flue should not be left swinging free. Ideally there should be insulation either in vermiculite or a fibreglass wrap around

CodeJACK · 26-09-2020 1:24pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I Have seen a job like that done but the installer only broke out the damaged pot loose lean mix, he then proceed to pull in continuous flue and put vermiculite around it. This should be sufficient unless clay liners were collapsed in 2-3 places. It not a good idea to knock out all liners as ideally flue should not be left swinging free. Ideally there should be insulation either in vermiculite or a fibreglass wrap around

Yeah, the lot was removed as it collapsed in a few places. Fireplace below me used to have regular chimney fires. Eventually, it collapsed and the neighbor carried on lighting the chimney while the spoke literally poured into ours. They told us it was our problem and carried on! lol

Stainless liners are the way to go and if the existing is dodgy, I do agree its best to still it out. There was a number of holes drilled to remove blockages and when a few got removed, the loud bang of the full two flu's could be heard as it all fell in.

Blanco100 · 28-09-2020 9:44am

Anyone have any info on the Vitae 6KW cassette stove? Thinking of purchasing along with new fireplace

Cheers in advance

coL · 28-09-2020 10:11am

upupup wrote: »

You have got years before any of those problems arise and they may never arise,,,,clean the chimney and relax:)

Thanks for the reply it's good to know that there is nothing too urgent required.

Would still apricate opinions on my list as it would be nice to know what to keep an eye on and prevent any bigger issues down the line.

Should I be doing much in terms of ongoing general maintenance to it?

limnam · 28-09-2020 9:18pm

coL wrote: »

Thanks for the reply it's good to know that there is nothing too urgent required.

Would still apricate opinions on my list as it would be nice to know what to keep an eye on and prevent any bigger issues down the line.

Should I be doing much in terms of ongoing general maintenance to it?

From your list I think the only thing you'll be doing on an anyway regular basis is changing the rope. It's quick to check, easy and cheap to replace.

On my stove anyway it makes a big impact.

billcullen1 · 28-09-2020 9:43pm

I was told I have a few cracks in my chimney and I need to get them repaired, what is the best way to tackle this, has any1 had this experience and how did they handle it.

p.s what is the procedure for claiming on your insurance with regards to fixing your chimney and how long does it take and who would you go to and has any1 had this problem ?

STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

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