New R&A Rules from 1/1/19

slave1 · 13-12-2018 10:40am

HighLine wrote: »

Attended a rules seminar at Dun Laoghaire this evening and was happy to hear that both the GUI and ILGU are strongly opposed to the new local rule for alternative to stroke and distance option and are advising all clubs not to adopt it.

Good news but I would have thought that when CONGU said the use of this rule meant non-qualifying then that was the nail in the coffin.

Great for casual and society golf IMHO but as mentioned before this is widely used in qualifying rounds in the states so it's more US centric

Montgolfier · 14-12-2018 9:08am

slave1 wrote: »

Good news but I would have thought that when CONGU said the use of this rule meant non-qualifying then that was the nail in the coffin.

Great for casual and society golf IMHO but as mentioned before this is widely used in qualifying rounds in the states so it's more US centric

One problem I see is society players sometimes enter an open if it's on the same day. If they bring in a good score I'm sure they won't be asked what set of rules they were playing by. Personally not a fan of that rule golf is deteriorating as a skilled sport. What's next drop on the green for 6.

Seve OB · 14-12-2018 10:10am

Montgolfier wrote: »

One problem I see is society players sometimes enter an open if it's on the same day. If they bring in a good score I'm sure they won't be asked what set of rules they were playing by. Personally not a fan of that rule golf is deteriorating as a skilled sport. What's next drop on the green for 6.

They can still hit 3 off the 3 in the society if they have entered the open comp.

I don't see anything in this local rule that says you must drop and there is nothing to say you can't play 3 off the tee.

slave1 · 14-12-2018 10:28am

Montgolfier wrote: »

One problem I see is society players sometimes enter an open if it's on the same day. If they bring in a good score I'm sure they won't be asked what set of rules they were playing by. Personally not a fan of that rule golf is deteriorating as a skilled sport. What's next drop on the green for 6.

We don't allow this in our society, in societies there can be + or - adjustments to GUI handicaps so we do not allow messing the pace of play up with guys on greens thinking do they have an extra shot here in the open or any of that (if you catch my drift)...plus the open could be off different tees and we don#t want lads playing off different tees for different comps on the same day, again it slows the game down.
One competition at a time is plenty IMHO

jimjim12 · 14-12-2018 11:03am

Montgolfier wrote: »

One problem I see is society players sometimes enter an open if it's on the same day. If they bring in a good score I'm sure they won't be asked what set of rules they were playing by. Personally not a fan of that rule golf is deteriorating as a skilled sport. What's next drop on the green for 6.

I'm open to correction, but I thought you could not play in two competitions at the same time. ie a single round can't count in two separate competitions.
Or is that just match play during a stroke play event?

Seve OB · 14-12-2018 12:31pm

jimjim12 wrote: »

I'm open to correction, but I thought you could not play in two competitions at the same time. ie a single round can't count in two separate competitions.
Or is that just match play during a stroke play event?

I think that is for qualifying comps.

do you have comps amongst your weekly t ball for the front back and overall? friendly comps of course.... society golf is friendly.

no issues here to worry about

Montgolfier · 14-12-2018 2:10pm

Seve OB wrote: »

I think that is for qualifying comps.

do you have comps amongst your weekly t ball for the front back and overall? friendly comps of course.... society golf is friendly.

no issues here to worry about

Yeah plenty of society's and clubs allow it, right or wrong.

paulos53 · 04-01-2019 11:13am

Leaving the flag in when putting did Bryson DeChambeau no harm yesterday

https://twitter.com/PGATOUR/status/1081023249641684992

HighLine · 04-01-2019 12:13pm

paulos53 wrote: »

Leaving the flag in when putting did Bryson DeChambeau no harm yesterday

So many people coming out and saying it is an advantage to leave the flag in but yet so few of them doing it. It will take a long time.

Playing in a comp at my own club the other day, playing partners were adamant they wanted the flag out. I would prefer to leave it in but I'm not that fussed either way as it is just winter golf so I left it out. That might change in a few months when proper golf starts. For years when I'm out practicing, I have putted with the flag in so I know it can be an advantage.

Seve OB · 04-01-2019 6:39pm

Ah I don't know.
I think I'd rather it out. But I will be putting with it in if I have a long putt and I am waiting on someone to get to it.

For me it's about speeding the game up,

I don't see any advantage of putting with it in
Actually if you look at all deshambles putts there, they all would have dropped comfortably without the flag..... Actually one or 2 of them could quite easily have popped back out.

callaway92 · 04-01-2019 7:33pm

paulos53 wrote: »

Leaving the flag in when putting did Bryson DeChambeau no harm yesterday

https://twitter.com/PGATOUR/status/1081023249641684992

It literally would’ve had no impact in or out there anyway.

What about people putting on hidden greens hypothetically? 17th green in Cahir I’m thinking. It’s a blind shot down.

CalamariFritti · 04-01-2019 7:44pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Ah I don't know.
I think I'd rather it out. But I will be putting with it in if I have a long putt and I am waiting on someone to get to it.

For me it's about speeding the game up,

I don't see any advantage of putting with it in
Actually if you look at all deshambles putts there, they all would have dropped comfortably without the flag..... Actually one or 2 of them could quite easily have popped back out.

I think I remember having read years ago, possibly in the Dave Pelz bible, that leaving the flag in gives a slight edge percentage wise. But that was for chipping from the fringe not sure putting would have the same stats.

I agree with using it for really long putts to save time with flag attendance. And I think that's what the idea is too. But on normal putts it would worry me that something a little too pacy might deflect off the flagstick. I fear it might affect my putting pace. I think I'll keep taking it out for anything but the real long ones for now but will remain open minded.

HighLine · 04-01-2019 7:54pm

Just another point on putting with the flag still in... the ball is deemed to be holed if "any part of the ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green".

So the ball doesn't have to drop to the bottom of the cup and nor do you have to remove the flag to make it drop. That is sure to gather some strange looks from playing partners not aware of the rule.

BigChap1759 · 04-01-2019 7:57pm

HighLine wrote: »

Just another point on putting with the flag still in... the ball is deemed to be holed if "any part of the ball is in the hole below the surface of the putting green".

So the ball doesn't have to drop to the bottom of the cup and nor do you have to remove the flag to make it drop. That is sure to gather some strange looks from playing partners not aware of the rule.

Correct, it’s from his short game bible - he made his career collecting stats in the early years

FixdePitchmark · 04-01-2019 9:41pm

Did the new drop today - felt like a virgin - that is going to be fun and I'd say changed.

Here is a video - I'm sure there is better videos ?

Grounding club in a hazard/penalty area sounds crazy

FixdePitchmark · 04-01-2019 9:44pm

FixdePitchmark · 04-01-2019 9:55pm

Looking at a few of them there.

A few clowns are going to use these to their advantage - the pick up your ball to identify and place is one.

40 seconds will be a test for some lads I even play with.

3 mins is very short and in some case will result in slower play as - less balls will be found.

Montgolfier · 05-01-2019 12:01am

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Looking at a few of them there.

A few clowns are going to use these to their advantage - the pick up your ball to identify and place is one.

40 seconds will be a test for some lads I even play with.

3 mins is very short and in some case will result in slower play as - less balls will be found.

Its amazing the people who assume the new rules, one guy plugged a ball in a water Hazard and thought he could pick it up and clean it then place it. The obb rule is assumed also lads think the can drop it on the fairway. I guess it will take a while to get to know the new rules.

Seve OB · 05-01-2019 1:59am

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Looking at a few of them there.

A few clowns are going to use these to their advantage - the pick up your ball to identify and place is one.

40 seconds will be a test for some lads I even play with.

3 mins is very short and in some case will result in slower play as - less balls will be found.

40 seconds is not a rule, just a guide

Seve OB · 05-01-2019 2:00am

Montgolfier wrote: »

Its amazing the people who assume the new rules, one guy plugged a ball in a water Hazard and thought he could pick it up and clean it then place it. The obb rule is assumed also lads think the can drop it on the fairway. I guess it will take a while to get to know the new rules.

oob rule must be a local rule and can't be in counting comps.

and if in use... you can drop on fairway

Seve OB · 05-01-2019 2:01am

re putting with flag in.

if you have it tended, does it have to be pulled?

or could you shout at the lad to leave it in as the ball is approaching if you think it will make a difference?

Goldenjohn · 05-01-2019 11:10pm

I took a drop today from knee height it felt so wrong

idle · 07-01-2019 12:28am

Seve OB wrote: »

re putting with flag in.

if you have it tended, does it have to be pulled?

or could you shout at the lad to leave it in as the ball is approaching if you think it will make a difference?

If it’s tended it has to be pulled

slave1 · 07-01-2019 1:01am

...and you can’t change your mind and ask for it to be pulled once you’ve putted

HighLine · 07-01-2019 4:51pm

:D

https://twitter.com/GOLF_com/status/1082297345235136512

Montgolfier · 07-01-2019 5:23pm

HighLine wrote: »

:D

https://twitter.com/GOLF_com/status/1082297345235136512

That's 2 strokes not a double hit (impressed none the less)

HighLine · 07-01-2019 5:26pm

Montgolfier wrote: »

That's 2 strokes not a double hit (impressed none the less)

Ah it wouldn't be allowed anyway because it wasn't accidental. Some skills though!

Seve OB · 07-01-2019 6:25pm

Montgolfier wrote: »

That's 2 strokes not a double hit (impressed none the less)

whilst I agree
is it really 2 strokes?
he doesn't follow through the first one

spacecoyote · 11-01-2019 6:40pm

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/edoardo-molinari-conducts-pretty-scientific-puttingflagstick-experiment-and-the-results-may-surprise-you

A relatively crude test but according to the results of this the optimal approach is:

Do whatever you want for slow putts
Take the pin out for medium paced putts
Leave the pin in for fast paced putts

FixdePitchmark · 11-01-2019 9:40pm

spacecoyote wrote: »

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/edoardo-molinari-conducts-pretty-scientific-puttingflagstick-experiment-and-the-results-may-surprise-you

A relatively crude test but according to the results of this the optimal approach is:

Do whatever you want for slow putts
Take the pin out for medium paced putts
Leave the pin in for fast paced putts

I've enjoyed playing with pin in - but feel this rule is going to be a joke. as some players will want it in and others will want it out.

The intention is to save time - but you will have lunatics inspired by the likes of Dechambollix insisting on it in when out.

It will be in out - in out etc.

Russman · 11-01-2019 9:58pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I've enjoyed playing with pin in - but feel this rule is going to be a joke. as some players will want it in and others will want it out.

The intention is to save time - but you will have lunatics inspired by the likes of Dechambollix insisting on it in when out.

It will be in out - in out etc.

Ya, I tend to agree with this. Some will want it in, some out, when the season kicks off.
So far, the guys I play with have carried on as before, ie tending, taking it out etc. I think it hasn’t dawned on any of us to actually intentionally leave the flag in tbh.

Seve OB · 11-01-2019 10:06pm

Played twice, different courses and different lads.
Was grand. Left in for downhill quickies and long putts otherwise tended or pulled.

slave1 · 11-01-2019 11:45pm

For casual rounds I’ve always left it in to save time so just gonna leave it in, if it’s a short putt scenario and playing partner wants it out for their putt then I’ll leave it out too, not bothered on short putts...

Kingswood Rover · 12-01-2019 11:54am

Seve OB wrote: »

Played twice, different courses and different lads.
Was grand. Left in for downhill quickies and long putts otherwise tended or pulled.

Same with me and having played a lot in this mild spell that is what the majority of people seem to be doing, dropping from your knee though is just so wrong and feels weird.

fred funk }{ · 12-01-2019 12:58pm

Played a few times since the new year. Most lads leave it in for the longer or fast putts and out when close but I played with a few older lads this week who wanted it in for nearly every putt. It was a nightmare, flag was in and out several times during each hole. It was slower than before to finish out and IMO they'll need to refine the rule somehow to stop this.

Euphoriasean · 12-01-2019 6:23pm

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Played a few times since the new year. Most lads leave it in for the longer or fast putts and out when close but I played with a few older lads this week who wanted it in for nearly every putt. It was a nightmare, flag was in and out several times during each hole. It was slower than before to finish out and IMO they'll need to refine the rule somehow to stop this.

That sounds like a disaster. Played a 4 ball comp today and it was only left in for long putts or where someone had pitch/chipped it within gimme range and just tapped in first. Once it was out it didn't go back in. Don't think the rule was intended to aid a slippery downhill putt.

Seve OB · 12-01-2019 7:18pm

in fairness it doesn't matter if the rules were introduced to aid or hinder you.
they are just the rules.
use them to your advantage when you can.
sure look at the lads on the tele, they have been at that for years

backspin. · 12-01-2019 11:29pm

I was out today and it was all.. "do you want the flag in or out".. "ill have it in".. "no take it out for me".. "put it back in for this one its a downhiller" etc. I don't think its going to work. And i noticed more damage to the holes out there today. Perhaps from people putting the pin out and in more often.

I think it needs clarification. The USGA and R&A should state this rule is to speed up play only. E.g It is to be used when a player is the first on the green and doesn't want to have to wait for someone to go tend the pin before he putts. It should not be for someone to use as an advantage to help his putts drop.

FixdePitchmark · 13-01-2019 1:49am

backspin. wrote: »

I was out today and it was all.. "do you want the flag in or out".. "ill have it in".. "no take it out for me".. "put it back in for this one its a downhiller" etc. I don't think its going to work. And i noticed more damage to the holes out there today. Perhaps from people putting the pin out and in more often.

I think it needs clarification. The USGA and R&A should state this rule is to speed up play only. E.g It is to be used when a player is the first on the green and doesn't want to have to wait for someone to go tend the pin before he putts. It should not be for someone to use as an advantage to help his putts drop.

As I said earlier .

Watch this space.

Whilst it is well intended , it won't work.

Golfers are strange creatures , put 4 in a group with options it is chaos.

This is one with unintended consequences.

I think pin in for me is a big advantage, I'll admit it.

redzerdrog · 13-01-2019 10:51am

Played yesterday for the first time with the new rules but all 4 of us regularly play together. Was grand it was left in for long ones and then taken out for the rest. A quick word to make sure the person furthest away wanted it out and that was it.

I don't think I could replace the pin for a putt after it have been removed, I know it is within the rules but just think it is wrong

BraveDonut · 14-01-2019 11:31am

Found a few lads having issues with dropping over the weekend too:

me: "No, don't drop it from that height, it needs to be knee height"
golfer: "What?"
me: "Knee height"
golfer: "Here?"
me: "No, knee height"
golfer: "Here?"
me: "No, lower - by your knee - you know, knee height"
golfer: "really?"

That happened twice

Also once where one guy dropped from shoulder height and played on without considering that he had incurred a penalty.

FixdePitchmark · 14-01-2019 11:35am

It's going to take a long time .

I'd imagine over 1/2 of golfers don't read anything about golf .

Then a serious amount of golfers don't even think about golf till April /may.

prawnsambo · 14-01-2019 11:45am

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

As I said earlier .

Watch this space.

Whilst it is well intended , it won't work.

Golfers are strange creatures , put 4 in a group with options it is chaos.

This is one with unintended consequences.

I think pin in for me is a big advantage, I'll admit it.

Played at the weekend and after about six holes, we decided that the best approach was all of us saying which way we wanted as default and to speak up if we wanted to change that for a particular putt. So we all opted for flag out as the default and just the odd few times, players asked for it to be left in.

No problem and a lot quicker than asking every time. So my advice is to settle this on the first tee and work away.

fred funk }{ · 14-01-2019 11:56am

prawnsambo wrote: »

Played at the weekend and after about six holes, we decided that the best approach was all of us saying which way we wanted as default and to speak up if we wanted to change that for a particular putt. So we all opted for flag out as the default and just the odd few times, players asked for it to be left in.

No problem and a lot quicker than asking every time. So my advice is to settle this on the first tee and work away.

We did something similar. We agreed that whoever wanted it left in was to putt first so once it was out it didn't go back in.

prawnsambo · 14-01-2019 12:14pm

fred funk }{ wrote: »

We did something similar. We agreed that whoever wanted it left in was to putt first so once it was out it didn't go back in.

Good idea. Will keep that in mind for the next time.

dan_ep82 · 14-01-2019 2:49pm

Played last week and like most it was pretty smooth.

Sometimes it was left in but most times t was taken out.

Dropping was fine for the few that was had. I had a ball plugged about half a foot from the water hazard while still in bounds. If I had to drop from shoulder height it would have had to place it after some unsuccessful drops and likely fish it out of the water.

FixdePitchmark · 14-01-2019 3:06pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

As I said earlier .

Watch this space.

Whilst it is well intended , it won't work.

Golfers are strange creatures , put 4 in a group with options it is chaos.

This is one with unintended consequences.

I think pin in for me is a big advantage, I'll admit it.

Played at the weekend and after about six holes, we decided that the best approach was all of us saying which way we wanted as default and to speak up if we wanted to change that for a particular putt. So we all opted for flag out as the default and just the odd few times, players asked for it to be left in.

No problem and a lot quicker than asking every time. So my advice is to settle this on the first tee and work away.

Yes was thinking this is what will happen.

No a massive deal but you will have an odd clown , but already have them with lads taking over 2 minutes for putts , 360 walks etc.

GreeBo · 18-01-2019 6:19pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Played at the weekend and after about six holes, we decided that the best approach was all of us saying which way we wanted as default and to speak up if we wanted to change that for a particular putt. So we all opted for flag out as the default and just the odd few times, players asked for it to be left in.

No problem and a lot quicker than asking every time. So my advice is to settle this on the first tee and work away.

Good idea!

We just let everyone who wanted it left in to go first.
Most wanted it in for anything outside 15ft and out otherwise so it was ok.
Though we are also playing ready golf which doesnt work if some are innies and some are outies.

It removes the whole " you're further away but I'm off the green so I'll go first" thing, not that that was necessarily slow.

Overall we have found it about 10 mins faster in a fourbsll, under 3:20 now on a Sunday morning.

HighLine · 18-01-2019 6:25pm

Good article here demonstrating why you should always leave the flag in.

https://mygolfspy.com/flagstick-in-flagstick-out-2019-new-golf-rules/?fbclid=IwAR1LFoK225iEpeM-oFD8EJ6iPooPgzvGqvJHa7HjwqWPFvenUnNkMNQQPZY

Johnny_Fontane · 22-01-2019 12:36pm

Played three rounds where we havent taken the flag out. Its great to leave it in there, definitely quicker and kind of different.

What are others doing?

New R&A Rules from 1/1/19

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