Simple solution to Dublin traffic problem

LXFlyer · 08-06-2014 3:45pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

My expectations are higher than what we have at the moment which isn't working for alot of people. I think your expectations are too low.

I live in the city centre and walk these ways everyday but I guess you know better :pac:. I am not going to argue with you over 1 or 2 minutes here and there. My point was that it was quicker to walk in this case (which I have shown). Maybe were the bus to arrive at the exact moment I arrive at the bustop and reach Heuston in the lowest end of your estimated time then the bus would possibly be 1 or 2 minutes quicker but for the reliability and certainty walking would be the preferred option.

Meandering routes? These are the routes that take a huge detour from their final destination. 66 is a good example but there are many others.

Anyway I have college work to do and you are not going to even acknowledge that I may have a point so I leave the last word to you

My expectations of public transport are realistic - you just simply cannot expect that every journey you want to do will be covered by a direct bus route at exactly the time you want - that's asking the impossible.

I'm struggling to understand how the 66 takes a "huge detour" - it operates due west all the way.

Victor · 08-06-2014 4:38pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

What I'd be more in favour of is having all schools begin their classes at either at 8am or 10am but not at 9am when the majority of commuters are trying to get to work.

Many people don't start work at 9am. Additionally, many schools have staggered starts.

bumper234 wrote: »

Simple solution, one day private cars who's reg ends in an odd number are banned from driving, the next day cars who's reg ends in an even number are off the roads. Instant 50% cut in traffic from private cars on the roads. It would never be implemented but we can dream

What of people with more than one car?

mikemac1 · 08-06-2014 6:53pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Currently,I would suggest that Parked,Ranked-up or cruising Taxis,all without Passengers are CAUSING much of the ongoing daily Traffic Flow problems in the City Centre area.

I waiting for my 79 on Aston Quay on Friday. The bus couldn't reach our stop as a taximan was hanging around outside Supervalu. He had dropped a girl off and she was inside.

The bus driver flashed the taxi and got no response and then beeped the horn and the taximan ignored him

Then our heroic bus driver got out of the bus and got in a shouting match with the taximan. Arms were waved and fingers were pointed with great gusto. Was great entertainment for us all at the stop :pac:

The girl returned and the taximan moved off. Our bus was delayed but only by 2 minutes or so, no big deal

AlekSmart · 08-06-2014 9:44pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

I waiting for my 79 on Aston Quay on Friday. The bus couldn't reach our stop as a taximan was hanging around outside Supervalu. He had dropped a girl off and she was inside.

The bus driver flashed the taxi and got no response and then beeped the horn and the taximan ignored him

Then our heroic bus driver got out of the bus and got in a shouting match with the taximan. Arms were waved and fingers were pointed with great gusto. Was great entertainment for us all at the stop :pac:

The girl returned and the taximan moved off. Our bus was delayed but only by 2 minutes or so, no big deal

Oddly enough (or not),similar to my own experience on Friday last on Dawson St.

Only difference is that I tend NOT to verbally engage with the Taxi Driving fraternity at all,as experience tells me it will be totally counterproductive,not to mention unprofessional.

However,In my case the Taxidriver concerned was sitting outside Hodges-Figgis obstructing Two seperate Bus-Stops, I remained waiting behind at a safe distance,whereupon he produces a bottle of Orange and swigs from it....No sign of any passenger as yet...cue one of the passengers awaiting my services approaching the fellow and politely enquiring as to his intentions...what transpired between them I did not hear,however The Taxidriver "Won" cos a passenger finally materialised from behind and on the opposite side of the street....I suspect,from the hand gestures and the reddening complexion,that the Taxidriver was not best pleased at being challenged by an "ordinary"....;)

However,as in Mikemac's case,my passengers journey was delayed by c.3 minutes....no big deal...nobody really gives a toss anyway,so no reason why these little events can't continue and perhaps even improve

beauf · 08-06-2014 9:55pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

....Driving 20 minutes door to door. Cycling 40 minutes door to door....

Google maps suggests cycling 25 mins. From Raheny to City Center. Its only 7.5k.

It reckons driving is 10. So its taking you twice as long whenever you are doing it.

beauf · 08-06-2014 9:58pm

Nokia Lumia phones have a "Here Transit" which shows all public transport options compared and factors in walking to the option in its estimate.

Its very nice.

http://www.nokialumiaapplications.com/here-transit-for-nokia-lumia-is-updated/

Pawwed Rig · 08-06-2014 10:01pm

beauf wrote: »

Google maps suggests cycling 25 mins. From Raheny to City Center. Its only 7.5k.

Just put in the 2 addresses and it says 29 minutes. So my excuse is I'm not as fit as I would like. The old mountain bike is a bit rusty too. Once you turn onto the Howth Road it is uphill all the way. Bloody tough. Driving is easier but doesn't help the fitness issue:D

desertcircus · 08-06-2014 10:08pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Just put in the 2 addresses and it says 29 minutes. So my excuse is I'm not as fit as I would like. The old mountain bike is a bit rusty too. Once you turn onto the Howth Road it is uphill all the way. Bloody tough. Driving is easier but doesn't help the fitness issue:D

Not to derail the thread, but a 200 quid secondhand road bike would see you there at least seven and probably ten minutes faster. A mountain bike is an incredibly slow option. My commute went from 45 to 35 minutes the day I got a hybrid, and with a road bike I managed to whittle it down to 28.

beauf · 08-06-2014 10:46pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Just put in the 2 addresses and it says 29 minutes. So my excuse is I'm not as fit as I would like. The old mountain bike is a bit rusty too. Once you turn onto the Howth Road it is uphill all the way. Bloody tough. Driving is easier but doesn't help the fitness issue:D

Well its now a lot shorter in time you thought it was.

The hardest part of that cycle is the 1m between front door and getting on the bike.

_Kaiser_ · 09-06-2014 12:21am

beauf wrote: »

People will not get out of their cars unless its more hassle to drive than the alternative. Its as simple as that.

Of course if there is not an alternative or its quite poor then they won't take it.

+1.. my current commute is a perfect example.

Takes me < 15 mins door-to-door but that's cause I'm usually in the office before 8am.

Alternative bus option would be nearly double that time, expensive, inflexible - plus I'd still be paying tax/insurance regardless. As I do a few long motorway runs a month, plus here and there in the evenings/weekends I wouldn't be giving up the car anyway.
I put up with Dublin Bus and IE for nearly 30 years and countless hours wasted on services that didn't show or plodding along wandering routes and unnecessary detours between A&B.

That's more than enough pain for a lifetime IMO!

Carawaystick · 09-06-2014 12:26pm

Surely a large part of the reason traffic improves is not because people are bringing children to school, but that people are not going to work as they're on Holidays?

People go on holidays, don't drive to work, reducing the traffic. Parents go when schools are off, then you have public sector staff on term-time, lecturers&teachers not working, etc.

beauf · 09-06-2014 1:25pm

Death of a thousand paper cuts.... or the opposite of that..

Hotblack Desiato · 09-06-2014 10:27pm

steveblack wrote: »

The way to keep it like this all year round is to make a law that children must attend a school within a certain distance of there house.

You'd have to make another law forcing the school to admit them, and not give preference to other pupils from outside the area on the basis of religion, father/mother went there, etc.

Idbatterim · 09-06-2014 11:07pm

putting in a decent transport network would be a start, before contemplating anything more drastic...

Muahahaha · 09-06-2014 11:39pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

One further "Simple Solution" to Dublin's Traffic Problems,at least in the City Centre,would be to immediately Re-Regulate the Taxi Industry.

Currently,I would suggest that Parked,Ranked-up or cruising Taxis,all without Passengers are CAUSING much of the ongoing daily Traffic Flow problems in the City Centre area.

As current legislation stands,every appropriately licenced Taxi driver can,at a whim,decide to descend upon Dublin City Centre irrrespective of whether,1) There are sufficient passengers to merit it 2) There are sufficient Parking/Taxi Rank spaces to cater for them.

This has resulted in total unregulated chaos,whereby individual self-employed business people get to impose their own standards upon what is supposed to be a regulated and functional City Traffic environment.

Finding Some means to schedule and/or roster Taxi Drivers is now inevitable if the "Industry" itself is to survive.

There is NO available extra roadspace available to allocate to Taxi's,given that the Taxi is primarily a Private Hire vehicle and not universally available as a Public Service Vehicle.

Therefore any Taxi sitting immobile at a rank,is entirely dependent upon an Individual member of the public having the desire and means to engage the services of that Taxidriver.

With BAC having been aggressively pursued on the issue of Buses left standing at City-Centre stance points,and as a result having been forced to re-structure and re-align routes to accomodate Dublin City Council's desire to free up Road Space,it surely cannot be sustainable to continue to ignore the same situation now prevailing with Taxi's.

General Traffic Levels within the City Centre area are significantly less problematic for Buses today,which is testimony to the success of Bus Lanes,Bus Gates and other general traffic restrictions...which is why it is NOT General Traffic that is CAUSING much of the problem currently...;)

Excellent point. Taxi deregulation in Ireland has been a total and utter disaster. We went from having only 1100 taxis in the entire city back at the end of the 90's to having some 50,000 odd today. It needed to be deregulated for sure but unbridled capitalism never works and that is basically what the regulator allowed to happen by dishing out tons of licenses so their office could generate revenue and look good to their political paymasters.

All you need to do is go down to Dame Street at 1am on a Friday and see a larger traffic jam than at any stage during rush hour. Traffic in the city centre often grinds to a halt on Aungier, Camden and George St at weekends solely with the sheer volume of tens of thousands of predominantly empty taxis, it's insane.

MGWR · 10-06-2014 4:56am

unbridled capitalism never works

That's what socialists always say. They usually say it in order to grab more power after failing to enforce laws related to the alleged "unbriding".

Cookie_Monster · 10-06-2014 5:53am

Idbatterim wrote: »

putting in a decent transport network would be a start, before contemplating anything more drastic...

removing the traffic would massivly improve the PT already in place. Biggest problems you generally encouter on a bus is having to sit in traffic, even with bus lanes.

beauf · 10-06-2014 7:28am

They could do with heavily fining taxis who stop dead in bad locations causing a obstruction to other traffic. Happens so often.

bk · 10-06-2014 10:35am

Idbatterim wrote: »

putting in a decent transport network would be a start, before contemplating anything more drastic...

I use to think this way, but now I'm not so sure.

Dublin Bus is and will remain the primary form of public transport in Dublin. Even in London, with it's superb underground network, London Bus still carries significantly more passengers then London Underground!

If you have ever been on DB off peak or weekends, you know it flies along and you get to your destination in no time. It is peak times, with all the congestion that causes it to be so slow.

So I think we might have to just bite the bullet and introduce congestion charging to drive people out of cars and onto the buses (and cycling and walking) instead, along with other steps to improve the bus services (more bus gates, automated enforcement of the bus gates, BRT, tag-on/tag-off leap, single high cash fare, bus lane enforcement cameras on the buses, etc.).

Idbatterim · 10-06-2014 10:54am

putting in a decent transport network would be a start, before contemplating anything more drastic...

what I meant by that was metro north and DU... Think of the traffic they would take off the streets...

Calina · 10-06-2014 11:42am

bk wrote: »

So I think we might have to just bite the bullet and introduce congestion charging to drive people out of cars and onto the buses (and cycling and walking) instead, along with other steps to improve the bus services (more bus gates, automated enforcement of the bus gates, BRT, tag-on/tag-off leap, single high cash fare, bus lane enforcement cameras on the buses, etc.).

Key issue in the peak hour in Dublin Bus in my experience is bus capacity itself. They are basically full and if you have to make a change of some description, there is a real risk that your second bus may not have room for you. Many people wind up waiting for additional buses even on single bus journeys not requiring changes.

The issue is not just congestion. I don't see any benefit to bringing in congestion charges in this country until we build a coherent public transport system which is not based on doing as little as we can get away with.

A key issue in Dublin is its comparatively low density which means implementing public transport tends to be more expensive. Either we absorb this and I see no evidence that the powers that be are willing to make public transport cheap and efficient for everyone, or we face the fact that the costs are more gridlock and less attractive public transport options.

The BRT out to Swords should be scrapped and the metro built first. The documentation already admits the BRT would be overcapacity on its first day of operation. Building it is a waste of money and resources when we would still have to build some sort of rail system anyway in my opinion.

bk · 10-06-2014 11:56am

Idbatterim wrote: »

what I meant by that was metro north and DU... Think of the traffic they would take off the streets...

In the past I thought the same and had MN and DU went ahead as scheduled, then that would have been fine and we could have introduced congestion charging once they were built.

But now we are looking at least 20 to 30 years before they are both built, so I believe we need to improve things drastically today and the key to that is making Dublin Bus:

- Fast
- Simple
- Reliable
- Integrated

Cheap is good too, but I don't believe it is a priority, I think what people want more is a fast, reliable, easy to use bus service. Give them that and they will flock to public transport, just like in London.

Macy0161 · 10-06-2014 12:03pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Surely a large part of the reason traffic improves is not because people are bringing children to school, but that people are not going to work as they're on Holidays?

People go on holidays, don't drive to work, reducing the traffic. Parents go when schools are off, then you have public sector staff on term-time, lecturers&teachers not working, etc.

That is definitely a big factor too - that's why, in my experience, Traffic is normally a bit lighter on a Monday and Friday any week of the year. I think that's why they normally do the traffic surveys in November, as that is when fewest take any annual leave/ long weekends.

On my driving route in, a lot of the causes of congestion are school traffic, though. Not particularly volume (although it must obviously be a factor), but actual traffic movements. For example, and imo, a lot of the congestion RTE to Donnybrook is the (Theresian?) school traffic doing a U turn at the cut out at Donnybrook Church, which snarls up the right turn to Anglesea Road and encourages people to cut in at the top too. The last week or two, the traffic has on the face of it been as bad into Donnybrook as a winters morning (back to RTE or UCD), but both lanes from RTE are moving at a similar pace rather than the right hand lane being very slow.

I'd rather take an alternative than drive, and I try to cycle some of the time. But the lack of park and rides is a major disincentive. Somewhere convenient, safe and cheap to leave the car to get public transport or cycle through the city remains an issue. It's either free on the roadway, or pay so much that it negates the saving even if you have a taxsaver ticket.

bk · 10-06-2014 12:06pm

Calina wrote: »

Key issue in the peak hour in Dublin Bus in my experience is bus capacity itself.

Obviously if you introduced congestion charging, etc. Then you would have a big increase in people using public transport, so more buses, luas and Darts * would have to be bought and used.

But then the money made from the congestion charging should be used to subsidise public transport and the purchase of more buses, etc.

* We already have the carriages, just return to 6 and 8 carriage formations.

beauf · 10-06-2014 12:07pm

I think the planners need to stop allowing building where it impacts on bus lanes. Our route as so many bottlenecks its spends about half its time stuck in a queue. The train is like a Tokyo express. Too over crowded. Miserable most of the time. The car takes half the time. Cycling is nearly as fast. The bus and train are my slowest method of getting to work.

Calina · 10-06-2014 12:11pm

bk wrote: »

Obviously if you introduced congestion charging, etc. Then you would have a big increase in people using public transport, so more buses, luas and Darts * would have to be bought and used.

But then the money made from the congestion charging should be used to subsidise public transport and the purchase of more buses, etc.

* We already have the carriages, just return to 6 and 8 carriage formations.

All those buses, trains and Darts would need to be in place well in advance of any congestion charging. This is the point most people would make. Put the capacity improvements in place first. We're not matching capacity requirements now, and in those circumstances, that has to be sorted before any sort of effort to move even more people to the public transport system.

beauf · 10-06-2014 12:12pm

Dublin is very doable on bicycle. There a real lack of vision of how suitable bicycles are.

monument · 10-06-2014 12:14pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

what I meant by that was metro north and DU... Think of the traffic they would take off the streets...

At best a short term effect. In cities traffic is shown again and again to fill the space provide.

So unless DU etc comes with extra space or priority for other modes --walking, cycling, or buses -- or other extra measures (congestion charging) motor traffic will bounce back.

endacl · 10-06-2014 12:14pm

beauf wrote: »

They could do with heavily fining taxis who stop dead in bad locations causing a obstruction to other traffic. Happens so often.

How would that be enforced...?

Calina · 10-06-2014 12:17pm

beauf wrote: »

Dublin is very doable on bicycle. There a real lack of vision of how suitable bicycles are.

Distance wise, maybe, state of the streets wise, hit or miss, and on the north side of the city, probably lethal.

Also, not everyone likes cycling. This seems, in discussions, to get forgotten now and again.

There's a real lack of vision about coherence in moving people around. Not just cycling, or public transport or whatever; there is no coherent overview.

Simple solution to Dublin traffic problem

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