Simple solution to Dublin traffic problem

Pawwed Rig

lxflyer wrote: »

There are generally public transport options out there - yes they may involve a change, but there are options.

Or take longer and cost more than walking:D. Let it go man

Victor

It is interesting how quiet Westmoreland Street has been for the last week in the evening rush.

Amazing what a bit of enforcement does.

MayoSalmon

And we wonder why we have a childhood obesity problem?!

LXFlyer

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Or take longer and cost more than walking:D. Let it go man

Well that's true of course in terms of cost - but there are plenty of journeys that could apply to.

My gripe is that you were (it appeared) complaining that there was no functioning public transport options available - irrespective of journey times/changes, and that you were making that assessment while not checking the relevant tools available.

Public transport is never going to be the ideal option for every trip - that's just impossible, but to say that we don't have a functioning bus network is being a tad disingenuous.

MadDog76

steveblack wrote: »

The schools are starting to close for the summer and the traffic problems are also starting to lessen.
The way to keep it like this all year round is to make a law that children must attend a school within a certain distance of there house. Within walking distance, do the children some good to walk to and from school.
I am a dublin bus driver and i see first hand some children travel from one side of the city to the other to go to school. City center children travel to the suburbs and vice versa.
I'd say at least twice the number are driven by parents to school.
This is what causes the terrible traffic we endure mon-fri every week the schools are open.
Some of you are going to say you cant do this , its a parents right to send there children to whatever school they want. Well just remember this post over the summer when your commute time is greatly reduced and then in september when the time drastically increases.

This is the funniest post I've ever read!!! Do you even have children??? How many houses can you build around a school .......... ????

Godge

bk wrote: »

Did you completely ignore what I posted here:.

I wasn't responding to your post so why would I have to take it into account?

bk wrote: »

In other words, we aren't saying everyone should be cycling, but that there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to increase it from 5% to 40% like in Amsterdam. This in turn would have a positive knock on effect on buses for people who can't cycle..

There are a multitude of reasons ranging from climate (I know the rainfall stats but they are not the complete story, there is also the temperature stats, as well as the frequency and intensity of different weather), urban planning issues (where schools, homes and workplaces are located), topography (Dublin is a bowl) and cycling infrastructure/safety that mean we won't get it to 40% but yes, we should be higher than 5%.

bk wrote: »

Also no reason why children can't cycle to school, many kids have been doing that for decades. Younger kids can be carried in bike carriers, etc.

In addition to the reasons above, there are plenty more for parents to consider.

Most responsible parents wish to ensure that primary schoolchildren get to school. That requires a parent to at least see them to the school gate. Giving timings and distances from school, that does not make cycling an option for the vast majority, especially when the one-parent-working family is disappearing and the person leaving the child to the school-gate has to get somewhere else in a hurry and the childminder collecting three children from the school hasn't the logisitics to deal with cycling kids. A does of reality would help the discussion.

At second-level, there are other issues relating to distance, safety and size/weight of schoolbags that don't always make cycling feasible.

beauf

If I had to carry a big bag of books, I'd prefer to do in on a bicycle than walk.

steveblack

MadDog76 wrote: »

How many houses can you build around a school .......... ????

Must be able to build thousands within a 20-30 minute walk to a school.

popolive

MayoSalmon wrote: »

And we wonder why we have a childhood obesity problem?!

Most of that problem is diet. You cannot outrun or outexercise your diet. The level of harmful crap in childrens' diets is alarming to say the least but not only that- I would speculate that many of them have never seen an avocado etc up close in their lives.

Carawaystick

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

You can either consider myself lucky, or, as I'd prefer to see it - having set my priorities right.

When buying a house, proximity to school and work was our first priority.

My kids walk to school, takes them 5 minutes. When they finish primary school they'll go to a secondary school on same estate, even closer to home.
My wife walks to work, 5 minutes
I drive to work 5 minutes but it's always off peak due to shift work. I could walk, 25 minutes. But worst thing ever is to finish off 12 hrs night shift, be wrecked, have shivers from it, and end up walking in cold rain. Brrr.

...

Makes me wonder why people chose to buy property as they wish, having no consideration for future change of circumstances related to work opportunities, kids education incl 3rd level

Living near where you work is grand until your work goes titsup and you have to scour the country for a job, if not further afield

mrbike

More people commute into Dublin city centre by bike than the Luas. The Luas cost about 800 million euro to build.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/cyclists-set-to-outnumber-luas-commuters-1.1773080

There has been pretty much zero investment in cycling infrastructure in Dublin. The infrastructure that has been built is generally not fit for purpose. In spite of this, 8% of journeys into the city are made by bike. 18% of people walk. (These are from the 2013 DCC canal cordon trends, which excludes the Luas).
http://irishcycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Canal_Cordon_Trends_2006-2013.pdf

Of the 8% that cycle, unfortunately because of either the real or perceived dangers involved, the majority of these are young males. Women are the minority, there few older people and children are non-existent.

Walking and cycling are just not seen as forms of transport that need to be catered for. It does seem like the penny has dropped and planners are finally beginning to realise catering for pedestrians and cyclists in city centres is a good idea. It’s hard to ignore the positives - less congestion, less pollution, less noise, a healthier population and more pleasant city centre.

For 50 years, this country has prioritised one form of transport to the detriment of all others. These two photos are from a town in the UK, but could just as equally apply to Ireland. The first is from 1944, and the other from today. I think it aptly sums up the price of car-centric urban design.

https://plus.google.com/photos/101049728232065299842/albums/6023393773130289585

beauf

mrbike wrote: »

.....These two photos are from a town in the UK, but could just as equally apply to Ireland. The first is from 1944, and the other from today. I think it aptly sums up the price of car-centric urban design.

https://plus.google.com/photos/101049728232065299842/albums/6023393773130289585

I'm not sure you really looked at those photos.

The 1944 shows a tonne of explosives & ammunition stacked in the middle of village in WWII.

Spanish Eyes

Thank god I dont live on a bus route that includes any schools.

No I take that back. Thank god I bought a house on such a route! I do not have sprogs, so I wanted it that way.

And it works!

Anyone take the 25a or B (or the various Xs) from Liffey Valley and points
East to city centre?

Bus lane all the way.

A bit of a jam (tiny) at SCR and also coming into city at Bachelors walk.

Otherwise.....swoooooop in there! Love it.

sdanseo

steveblack wrote: »

The schools are starting to close for the summer and the traffic problems are also starting to lessen.
The way to keep it like this all year round is to make a law that children must attend a school within a certain distance of there house. Within walking distance, do the children some good to walk to and from school.
I am a dublin bus driver and i see first hand some children travel from one side of the city to the other to go to school. City center children travel to the suburbs and vice versa.
I'd say at least twice the number are driven by parents to school.
This is what causes the terrible traffic we endure mon-fri every week the schools are open.
Some of you are going to say you cant do this , its a parents right to send there children to whatever school they want. Well just remember this post over the summer when your commute time is greatly reduced and then in september when the time drastically increases.

Better idea - kids are spoilt rotten with all these lifts to school. Force all able-bodied kids who do live within a mile or so of school to walk or cycle there.

It would cut about 50% of school traffic instantly.

It'd also help keep kids healthy, no more complaints about exercise, and might actually begin to justify expenditure on lollipop ladies who in recent years have been doing nothing but press buttons on pedestrian crossings.

mrbike

beauf wrote: »

I'm not sure you really looked at those photos.

The 1944 shows a tonne of explosives & ammunition stacked in the middle of village in WWII.

Good point, but I'm pretty sure they were all gone the following day, leaving a very nice village square.

beauf

Thats why its called "gone powder" ....

Cookie_Monster

A very simple experiment would be to make all the outlying P&R facilities free to park in. The green line has a couple of barely used parks as the cost is prohibitive once you combine parking and luas fare.

Auckland Council are considering making P&R paid for, it's free currently. There's been a huge backlash and a lot of concern that the move will substantially increase traffic in the CC as a result, rather than reduce it.

Macy0161

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

A very simple experiment would be to make all the outlying P&R facilities free to park in. The green line has a couple of barely used parks as the cost is prohibitive once you combine parking and luas fare.

Auckland Council are considering making P&R paid for, it's free currently. There's been a huge backlash and a lot of concern that the move will substantially increase traffic in the CC as a result, rather than reduce it.

I think it would make a big difference, as currently the cost of parking at Luas and dart stations negates the savings even with a yearly taxsaver ticket compared to driving. And although it's minor in the scheme of things, arsing around getting a ticket every day/ having change/ not losing a weekly ticket all impacts on peoples choices.

Maybe a compromise would be to allow carparking to be bundled in with the travel ticket for taxsaver purposes?

hfallada

One way to reduce traffic is to get rid of civil servant car spaces in town. Very few private offices in town have any car spaces for their employees, but most civil servants I know have a car space right in the city center. There is no reason why then to have a free car space to add to the cities congestion, just because they dont want to take the bus

LXFlyer

Macy0161 wrote: »

I think it would make a big difference, as currently the cost of parking at Luas and dart stations negates the savings even with a yearly taxsaver ticket compared to driving. And although it's minor in the scheme of things, arsing around getting a ticket every day/ having change/ not losing a weekly ticket all impacts on peoples choices.

Maybe a compromise would be to allow carparking to be bundled in with the travel ticket for taxsaver purposes?

I'm pretty sure that's already available for Irish Rail.

Macy0161

lxflyer wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that's already available for Irish Rail.

I think they had (maybe have) an annual car park pass, but I don't think it counts for the taxsaver (or can even be deducted with the taxsaver ticket).

Muahahaha

MGWR wrote: »

That's what socialists always say. They usually say it in order to grab more power after failing to enforce laws related to the alleged "unbriding".

So do you think taxi deregulation has been a success? I don't, it has gone way to far to the po it that empty taxis are now part of the Dublin traffic problem.

It's ironic that you criticise socialists for being wary of unbridled capitalism, especially when we're here discussing how to solve Dublins traffic problems. If Ireland had a bit more regulation of its brand of capitalism during the boom years then we might be here discussing Metro North or West instead. But the economy is in the tank because of unbridled capitalism and the Metro isn't getting built for a long while yet.

Godge

hfallada wrote: »

One way to reduce traffic is to get rid of civil servant car spaces in town. Very few private offices in town have any car spaces for their employees, but most civil servants I know have a car space right in the city center. There is no reason why then to have a free car space to add to the cities congestion, just because they dont want to take the bus

The private sector office building I work in has plenty of car parking for private sector employees. Do you have any figures to back up what you are saying?

GTE

This is an uneducated thought and is more in theory than practice, but what is stopping buses and coaches bound for the general O'Connell street area from using the Luas track as an express bus lane?

I was wondering what could be done to free up the quays or add capacity as I have recently needed to do some rush hour driving on it. All buses and coaches on the Luas line could mean getting rid of the bus lane, but of course that is unworkable for Dublin Bus routes which use parts of the quays where BE could get away with it - maybe benefit.

That said, I am sure there are good reasons why they can not double up, but I am wondering what they are.

beauf

I would doubt the luas line has the capacity to handle buses on it and trams.

Losty Dublin

hfallada wrote: »

One way to reduce traffic is to get rid of civil servant car spaces in town. Very few private offices in town have any car spaces for their employees, but most civil servants I know have a car space right in the city center. There is no reason why then to have a free car space to add to the cities congestion, just because they dont want to take the bus

Having worked in the civil service in 3 departments since 2000, I can assure you that those of us who have use of assured city centre parking spaces are very much in the minority. Even our Secretary General hasn't such a luxury.

beauf

You then have to factor the cost in time and fares if they are travelling to meetings. You might be saving with one hand to spend it with the other.

GTE

beauf wrote: »

I would doubt the luas line has the capacity to handle buses on it and trams.

I'd have thought the BE coaches could get through without causing trouble as they do not need to stop except for near O'Connell street, where they could use Abbey street.

AlekSmart

mikemac1 wrote: »

I waiting for my 79 on Aston Quay on Friday. The bus couldn't reach our stop as a taximan was hanging around outside Supervalu. He had dropped a girl off and she was inside.

The bus driver flashed the taxi and got no response and then beeped the horn and the taximan ignored him

Then our heroic bus driver got out of the bus and got in a shouting match with the taximan. Arms were waved and fingers were pointed with great gusto. Was great entertainment for us all at the stop :pac:

The girl returned and the taximan moved off. Our bus was delayed but only by 2 minutes or so, no big deal

The crazily skewed manner in which Taxis are allowed to be a contributor to the problem rather than part of it's solution is underlined by the most recent numbers....since 2007 The Country's Taxi fleet has Declined from 25,695 to 21,900 a drop of 14.8%.

What is perhaps more notable is how in spite of substantial encouragement the total Wheelchair Accessible SPSV fleet dropped from 1,600 to 898,a drop of 43%.

With every single one of approx 18,000 Taxidrivers apparently wanting to descend upon Dublin City Centre on Thurs/Friday/Saturday night,what hope has the City of remaining functional...?

monument

Godge wrote: »

There are a multitude of reasons ranging from climate (I know the rainfall stats but they are not the complete story, there is also the temperature stats, as well as the frequency and intensity of different weather), urban planning issues (where schools, homes and workplaces are located), topography (Dublin is a bowl) and cycling infrastructure/safety that mean we won't get it to 40% but yes, we should be higher than 5%.


In addition to the reasons above, there are plenty more for parents to consider.

Most responsible parents wish to ensure that primary schoolchildren get to school. That requires a parent to at least see them to the school gate. Giving timings and distances from school, that does not make cycling an option for the vast majority, especially when the one-parent-working family is disappearing and the person leaving the child to the school-gate has to get somewhere else in a hurry and the childminder collecting three children from the school hasn't the logisitics to deal with cycling kids. A does of reality would help the discussion.

At second-level, there are other issues relating to distance, safety and size/weight of schoolbags that don't always make cycling feasible.

Re this and your other post in the same vain:

You claim knee and hip problems are a notable barrier to mass cycling but while the Dutch and Danish medical systems are good, they have not magicked away all knee and hip problems.

You seem to think that there no schools in Denmark or the Netherlands. Also: No parents dropping children off and going to work, no children collected by child minders, no children cycling comparable distances to what most Irish children are bused or driven, etc, or no children who use other means to get to school.

You talk about temperature and climate differences but not only do you not back up your claims here -- you remain so vague it's hard to respond. It's far, far colder and extreme in Denmark in the winter, so, it must not be the cold that you're talking about.

Re urban planning issues and placement of workplaces, homes, etc: This can be an issue but it's overplayed with something like 200,000 commuters in Dublin driving under 5km.

Re "topography (Dublin is a bowl)" -- that's overblown / simplified to the last. Dublin is nowhere near a bowl. And there's more people cycling long distances across along more bowl-like topography, than there is cycling short commutes (which are been driven) on almost flat sections of Dublin.

Godge wrote: »

and cycling infrastructure/safety

This is about your only point where there's a major difference between here and the Netherlands and Denmark.

So we're mainly left with lack of infrastructure and, besides that, a load of excuses.

popolive wrote: »

Most of that problem is diet. You cannot outrun or outexercise your diet. The level of harmful crap in childrens' diets is alarming to say the least but not only that- I would speculate that many of them have never seen an avocado etc up close in their lives.

It's actually a mix of diet and inactivity, both are interlinked and tackling both shows best results.