Simple solution to Dublin traffic problem

steveblack

The schools are starting to close for the summer and the traffic problems are also starting to lessen.
The way to keep it like this all year round is to make a law that children must attend a school within a certain distance of there house. Within walking distance, do the children some good to walk to and from school.
I am a dublin bus driver and i see first hand some children travel from one side of the city to the other to go to school. City center children travel to the suburbs and vice versa.
I'd say at least twice the number are driven by parents to school.
This is what causes the terrible traffic we endure mon-fri every week the schools are open.
Some of you are going to say you cant do this , its a parents right to send there children to whatever school they want. Well just remember this post over the summer when your commute time is greatly reduced and then in september when the time drastically increases.

beauf

Having fought this battle and lost. The reality is the schools set their own catchment and admission policies. There's little you can do once its not illegal.

MGWR

steveblack wrote: »

The schools are starting to close for the summer and the traffic problems are also starting to lessen.
The way to keep it like this all year round is to make a law that children must attend a school within a certain distance of there house. Within walking distance, do the children some good to walk to and from school.
I am a dublin bus driver and i see first hand some children travel from one side of the city to the other to go to school. City center children travel to the suburbs and vice versa.
I'd say at least twice the number are driven by parents to school.
This is what causes the terrible traffic we endure mon-fri every week the schools are open.
Some of you are going to say you cant do this , its a parents right to send there children to whatever school they want. Well just remember this post over the summer when your commute time is greatly reduced and then in September when the time drastically increases.

I used to walk to/from school, as did my parents before me, and all my cousins around Dublin and assorted suburbs. The only kids that I knew of that took the bus were those headed for the Christian Brothers.

Rock of Gibraltar

Even if children were forced to attend schools within walking distance of their homes I think parents would continue to drive them there.

I live close to a primary school and every morning its carrmageddon, few children walk, less cycle. If the objective is to stop parents driving their kids to school a better solution might be to make it physically harder for them to do it like blocking some roads around schools to motor traffic while at the same time improving cycle and footpath access.

catallus

mikemac1

The school nearest us introduced the walking bus.

Children gather at the entrance of an estate and two or three adults line them up and walk them to school. The kids and adults have hi vis jackets which are unnecessary but seems to be part of the plan. There might be 15 or 20 in a group

Seems to work well

Muahahaha

What I'd be more in favour of is having all schools begin their classes at either at 8am or 10am but not at 9am when the majority of commuters are trying to get to work. If you could separate school traffic from rush hour commuting traffic by an hour it would improve things somewhat I'd imagine. Parents would probably never allow it to happen though.

beauf

Or start work at 8 or 10....

Losty Dublin

I sat in on a meeting of my local school's PTA a few years ago.

One parent gave out stink about people parking around the school and she proposed asking the principal to contact the clampers to address it. All were in favour and about to say "Aye" until one of the committee realised that they would all be clamped as well, they being the ones who were doing the parking

John_C

beauf wrote: »

Or start work at 8 or 10....

Or bring in a law saying everyone has to work within a few miles of their house. It'd do the grown ups some good to have to walk to and from work.

markpb

It's funny how everyone's idea to solve traffic is to take other people off the road, never themselves

beauf

markpb wrote: »

It's funny how everyone's idea to solve traffic is to take other people off the road, never themselves

The OP is a bus driver.

..and none of it applies to me!

Pawwed Rig

beauf wrote: »

The OP is a bus driver.

Wouldn't need buses if everyone walked to work and school.

markpb

beauf wrote: »

The OP is a bus driver.

The others who replied aren't though and neither are the hoards of people who blame school kids for all their traffic woes. And no, I'm neither a school kid nor a parent with a child of school going age.

bumper234

Simple solution, one day private cars who's reg ends in an odd number are banned from driving, the next day cars who's reg ends in an even number are off the roads. Instant 50% cut in traffic from private cars on the roads. It would never be implemented but we can dream

beauf

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Wouldn't need buses if everyone walked to work and school.

Then there's the real world where these things are often outside your control.

markpb wrote: »

The others who replied aren't though and neither are the hoards of people who blame school kids for all their traffic woes. And no, I'm neither a school kid nor a parent with a child of school going age.

Maybe you shouldn't have said "everyone" then....

There's a lot of things you can't change easily. But everyone needing to be on the same road at the same time is one thing than can be changed.

In my area, they've built 4 or 5 schools on the same road. Then redesigned the surrounding roads to feed a ton of commuter traffic down the same road. The schools changed their catchments an enrollment policies so kids beside them, are not in them and parents are driving them in from outside the area. Now they are all complaining about the grid lock. Like Duh.

Seaswimmer

bumper234 wrote: »

Simple solution, one day private cars who's reg ends in an odd number are banned from driving, the next day cars who's reg ends in an even number are off the roads. Instant 50% cut in traffic from private cars on the roads. It would never be implemented but we can dream

I would contend that parents driving kids to school are not the real problem. Often they are bringing a few kids to school and going on to work. The real issue is the huge amount of single occupancy cars commuting each day. single car commuting adults should be the ones to alter their travel patterns and maybe eventually the kids of the future will follow suit.

beauf

People will not get out of their cars unless its more hassle to drive than the alternative. Its as simple as that.

Of course if there is not an alternative or its quite poor then they won't take it.

Arthur Beesley

bumper234 wrote: »

Simple solution, one day private cars who's reg ends in an odd number are banned from driving, the next day cars who's reg ends in an even number are off the roads. Instant 50% cut in traffic from private cars on the roads. It would never be implemented but we can dream

:rolleyes:

Presumably you'd cut motor tax rates in half if I'm only allowed drive my car every second day.

Might be problematic for shift workers who drive to work in the night but can't drive home the next morning.

Back to the drawing board.

Apolloyon

bumper234 wrote: »

Simple solution, one day private cars who's reg ends in an odd number are banned from driving, the next day cars who's reg ends in an even number are off the roads. Instant 50% cut in traffic from private cars on the roads. It would never be implemented but we can dream

They tried this in Athens years ago to cut down on pollution. Instead, everyone just bought a cheap second car with the alternate plate and the pollution worsened. Never underestimate humanity's compulsion to put their own needs over everyone else's.

bumper234

Apolloyon wrote: »

They tried this in Athens years ago to cut down on pollution. Instead, everyone just bought a cheap second car with the alternate plate and the pollution worsened. Never underestimate humanity's compulsion to put their own needs over everyone else's.

I would personally go for James Bond type rotating number plates myself

Pawwed Rig

We have to wait until we have a functioning public transport system in the city before any of the traffic issues can be sorted. People need their cars as the public transport options are not adequate to meet the needs of may. Buses in particular are a complete mystery. Unless you know exactly where you are at all times you are likely to miss your stop and God help someone who is changing buses as they wander around looking for bustop number 4085:rolleyes:

I was in Harcourt Street and needed to get to Heuston Station to get a train. After researching all of the transport options walking turned out to be the most reliable choice. Welcome to 21st century Dublin

LXFlyer

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

We have to wait until we have a functioning public transport system in the city before any of the traffic issues can be sorted. People need their cars as the public transport options are not adequate to meet the needs of may. Buses in particular are a complete mystery. Unless you know exactly where you are at all times you are likely to miss your stop and God help someone who is changing buses as they wander around looking for bustop number 4085:rolleyes:

I was in Harcourt Street and needed to get to Heuston Station to get a train. After researching all of the transport options walking turned out to be the most reliable choice. Welcome to 21st century Dublin

So the onboard stop announcements on the buses don't help?

Do you have the National Journey Planner on your phone to help you plan your journey or did you visit it online at www.a-b.ie?

You clearly didn't do very much research - there is the 25, 25a, 25b, 25x or 145 from St Leeson Street or Stephen's Green to Heuston, all of which combined offer a 5-10 minute service.

Pawwed Rig

lxflyer wrote: »

So the onboard stop announcements on the buses don't help?

Do you have the National Journey Planner on your phone to help you plan your journey or did you visit it online at www.a-b.ie?

You clearly didn't do very much research - there is the 25, 25a, 25b, 25x or 145 from St Leeson Street or Stephen's Green to Heuston, all of which combined offer a 5-10 minute service.

Any bus that I get on has never had a stop announcent. So the bus stops and an announcement comes on at every stop saying where you are and what busses you can get from the stop you are at? Is this a new thing? I have never seen it other than on the Aircoach, Luas and DART. If there is well it is about time.

No. Don't have that app.

5-10minutes from Leeson Street to Hueston in rush hour is a little optimistic. Even google maps says 30 minutes. Still the uncertainty of the time the bus will actually arrive at Leeson Street, the 10 minute walk to Leeson Street and the traffic risk still made the 35 minute walk to Heuston the most reliable option as I could guarantee a start and end time. A bus may have gotten me there on time but there was no guarantee.

I will give you another example then. I go to Raheny every Saturday morning from city centre. I have a choice of DART, bus, drive or cycle. In order of speed the quickest is driving, second in cycling, third is DART and last is bus (admittedly quicker than walking).

LXFlyer

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Any bus that I get on has never had a stop announcent. So the bus stops and an announcement comes on at every stop saying where you are and what busses you can get from the stop you are at? Is this a new thing? I have never seen it other than on the Aircoach, Luas and DART. If there is well it is about time.

No. Don't have that app.

5-10minutes from Leeson Street to Hueston in rush hour is a little optimistic. Even google maps says 30 minutes. Still the uncertainty of the time the bus will actually arrive at Leeson Street, the 10 minute walk to Leeson Street and the traffic risk still made the 35 minute walk to Heuston the most reliable option as I could guarantee a start and end time. A bus may have gotten me there on time but there was no guarantee.

I will give you another example then. I go to Raheny every Saturday morning from city centre. I have a choice of DART, bus, drive or cycle. In order of speed the quickest is driving, second in cycling, third is DART and last is bus (admittedly quicker than walking).

The stop announcements are being rolled out across the Dublin Bus fleet. Each stop name is announced. They don't announce other routes as there simply isn't time. That's what the national journey planner is for.

A 5-10 minute service means there is a bus every 5-10 minutes. At rush hour it is more frequent than that with the 25a/25b every 5 minutes on their own. With the bus lanes they generally take about 20-25 minutes max from Leeson Street.

I don't think you'll find that the buses on a Saturday morning take that long from City Centre to Raheny, taking no more than 20 minutes maximum. That's not exactly what I would consider long for that trip, and with the 29a, 31, 31a and 32 there is a bus every 5-10 minutes.

Can I suggest that before you start going on a rant you might do some proper research first - there is a full national journey planner available to plan trips and it is invaluable for planning a journey by public transport.

Idbatterim

i have seen it suggested here before recently. The lights should go amber before green, on a daily basis, I am behind idiots who arent ready to move and who sometimes stop about 50% of the cars stuck behind the lights getting through in that rotation...

Pawwed Rig

lxflyer wrote: »

A 5-10 minute service means there is a bus every 5-10 minutes. At rush hour it is more frequent than that with the 25a/25b every 5 minutes on their own. With the bus lanes they generally take about 20-25 minutes max from Leeson Street.

Fair enough I misunderstood you. In that case walking is quicker as 35 minute walk to Heuston v a walk to the bus stop, a wait and a 25 minute bus journey.

lxflyer wrote: »

I don't think you'll find that the buses on a Saturday morning take that long from City Centre to Raheny, taking no more than 20 minutes maximum. That's not exactly what I would consider long for that trip, and with the 29a, 31, 31a and 32 there is a bus every 5-10 minutes.

25 minute walk to bustop and a 25 minute bus journey followed by a 5 minute walk to my destination.
DART 10 minute walk to DART station, 20 mins on DART and 15 minute walk to my destination. Driving 20 minutes door to door. Cycling 40 minutes door to door.

People do not live at bustops or DART stations

lxflyer wrote: »

Can I suggest that before you start going on a rant you might do some proper research first - there is a full national journey planner available to plan trips and it is invaluable for planning a journey by public transport.

Research as above. I have tried all 4 ways and as I said the In order of speed the quickest is driving, second in cycling, third is DART and last is bus (admittedly quicker than walking).

So proper research was done and research turned up the above results. To be a functioning system it has to meet the needs of the people. The current public transport meets the needs of the lucky ones who live and work right beside a DART Luas stop. The further away from the stops you live/work then the less the public transport system works for you. Solution would be more direct routes and extra stops rather than the meandering routes alot of buses take (ignoring commercial concerns for the sake of argument).

From the figures you have provided you would agree then that walking from Harcourt Street to Heuston is a quicker option right? As in a 35 minute walk versus a 25 minute bus journey preceded by a 15 minute walk down to Leeson Street? That was my point before your first response.

Muahahaha

Idbatterim wrote: »

i have seen it suggested here before recently. The lights should go amber before green, on a daily basis, I am behind idiots who arent ready to move and who sometimes stop about 50% of the cars stuck behind the lights getting through in that rotation...

I see that all the time, I'm on a motorbike so it doesn't effect me that much as I generally am at the top of the Q. But often I approach lights as they're going green and have to filter in behind a car who is still getting from neutral into first several seconds after the lights have gone green. An amber light before the green, like they have in the UK, would go some way to helping I guess. It's extremely frustrating to miss a green light because some fool in front of you was texting or just not paying attention in general.

In saying all that if I was behind my 76 year old mother at the lights I know I'd be missing it too !

LXFlyer

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Fair enough I misunderstood you. In that case walking is quicker as 35 minute walk to Heuston v a walk to the bus stop, a wait and a 25 minute bus journey.


25 minute walk to bustop and a 25 minute bus journey followed by a 5 minute walk to my destination.
DART 10 minute walk to DART station, 20 mins on DART and 15 minute walk to my destination. Driving 20 minutes door to door. Cycling 40 minutes door to door.

People do not live at bustops or DART stations


Research as above. I have tried all 4 ways and as I said the In order of speed the quickest is driving, second in cycling, third is DART and last is bus (admittedly quicker than walking).

So proper research was done and research turned up the above results. To be a functioning system it has to meet the needs of the people. The current public transport meets the needs of the lucky ones who live and work right beside a DART Luas stop. The further away from the stops you live/work then the less the public transport system works for you. Solution would be more direct routes and extra stops rather than the meandering routes alot of buses take (ignoring commercial concerns for the sake of argument).

From the figures you have provided you would agree then that walking from Harcourt Street to Heuston is a quicker option right? As in a 35 minute walk versus a 25 minute bus journey preceded by a 15 minute walk down to Leeson Street? That was my point before your first response.

It's hardly a 15 minute walk to Leeson Street along Hatch Street - 10 at a push, more like 7 or 8 minutes, with a 20 minute bus trip to Heuston.

You clearly didn't do any real research on that Heuston trip, otherwise you'd have known about those buses which you didn't!! That's what the Journey Planner app does. There's also the Dublin Bus and NTA realtime information apps that give live information.

I think your expectations are a little on the high side. You seem to expect door-to-door service. No public transport system can ever offer door-to-door service.

However there are the cross-city 14, 15, and 27 bus routes that link the Howth Road routes with other corridors, and the 15a, 15b and 151 routes that drop you close by them, i.e. within 3-4 minutes.

And what "meandering routes" are you thinking of? Every radial corridor has at least one route that operates directly along it.

Pawwed Rig

lxflyer wrote: »

I think your expectations are a little on the high side. You seem to expect door-to-door service. No public transport system can ever offer door-to-door service.

My expectations are higher than what we have at the moment which isn't working for alot of people. I think your expectations are too low.

I live in the city centre and walk these ways everyday but I guess you know better :pac:. I am not going to argue with you over 1 or 2 minutes here and there. My point was that it was quicker to walk in this case (which I have shown). Maybe were the bus to arrive at the exact moment I arrive at the bustop and reach Heuston in the lowest end of your estimated time then the bus would possibly be 1 or 2 minutes quicker but for the reliability and certainty walking would be the preferred option.

Meandering routes? These are the routes that take a huge detour from their final destination. 66 is a good example but there are many others.

Anyway I have college work to do and you are not going to even acknowledge that I may have a point so I leave the last word to you

AlekSmart

One further "Simple Solution" to Dublin's Traffic Problems,at least in the City Centre,would be to immediately Re-Regulate the Taxi Industry.

Currently,I would suggest that Parked,Ranked-up or cruising Taxis,all without Passengers are CAUSING much of the ongoing daily Traffic Flow problems in the City Centre area.

As current legislation stands,every appropriately licenced Taxi driver can,at a whim,decide to descend upon Dublin City Centre irrrespective of whether,1) There are sufficient passengers to merit it 2) There are sufficient Parking/Taxi Rank spaces to cater for them.

This has resulted in total unregulated chaos,whereby individual self-employed business people get to impose their own standards upon what is supposed to be a regulated and functional City Traffic environment.

Finding Some means to schedule and/or roster Taxi Drivers is now inevitable if the "Industry" itself is to survive.

There is NO available extra roadspace available to allocate to Taxi's,given that the Taxi is primarily a Private Hire vehicle and not universally available as a Public Service Vehicle.

Therefore any Taxi sitting immobile at a rank,is entirely dependent upon an Individual member of the public having the desire and means to engage the services of that Taxidriver.

With BAC having been aggressively pursued on the issue of Buses left standing at City-Centre stance points,and as a result having been forced to re-structure and re-align routes to accomodate Dublin City Council's desire to free up Road Space,it surely cannot be sustainable to continue to ignore the same situation now prevailing with Taxi's.

General Traffic Levels within the City Centre area are significantly less problematic for Buses today,which is testimony to the success of Bus Lanes,Bus Gates and other general traffic restrictions...which is why it is NOT General Traffic that is CAUSING much of the problem currently...;)