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Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

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    #2072
    straight
    Registered Users Posts: 4,575 ✭✭✭straight


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    Again put in dry off date in herdplus and change purpose to beef honestly thought most lads are up to speed on this the whole herd plus programme is excellent if used right it’s only in recent times im hearing tegasc advisors explaining this

    I would think once you put in the dry off date and then that cow is out until you record a birth off her again. No need to change to beef?


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    #2073
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,096 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    straight wrote: »
    I would think once you put in the dry off date and then that cow is out until you record a birth off her again. No need to change to beef?

    If she is empty and u ain’t carrying her to milk again put in dry off date and change to beef ainmal what I do with culls here is milk right up to dry off 22/12 give/take put that in as dry off date then on 01 janurary those cows are changed to beef ainmals they will be gone off farm by time calving starts lads that are finishing cows in April May do same


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    #2074
    mf240
    Registered Users Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭mf240


    green daries wrote: »
    4 Farmers round me puming away spreading slurry the Last while its a joke for anyone who is trying to comply

    Its Ireland. We only view rules as suggestions.


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    #2075
    mf240
    Registered Users Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭mf240


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    By the look of the head on him if he caught a glimpse of himself in the mirror he'd try and have a go on himself

    Wouldn't believe everything I read by a long shot, but no need for that either.


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    #2076
    straight
    Registered Users Posts: 4,575 ✭✭✭straight


    mf240 wrote: »
    Its Ireland. We only view rules as suggestions.

    Well alot of rules are ridiculous. Lads out with the umbilical on jan 11th in the snow or before a storm is worse than spreading it now.


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    #2077
    Wildsurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭Wildsurfer


    straight wrote: »
    Well alot of rules are ridiculous. Lads out with the umbilical on jan 11th in the snow or before a storm is worse than spreading it now.

    You are right, closed period should be until Feb 1st at least.


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    #2078
    straight
    Registered Users Posts: 4,575 ✭✭✭straight


    Wildsurfer wrote: »
    You are right, closed period should be until Feb 1st at least.

    Ya, cos it never rains or snows in February. Doing the right thing is best, aka good farming practice. I've oceans of storage (pun intended) but there's no guarantee of weather in January or February to get it spread. That's when you see lads out with the rain gun. I'm putting out parlour washings these days on good conditions and it will grow grass over December.


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    #2079
    richie123
    Registered Users Posts: 790 ✭✭✭richie123


    straight wrote: »
    Well alot of rules are ridiculous. Lads out with the umbilical on jan 11th in the snow or before a storm is worse than spreading it now.

    That's not right either it should be February first and yes it could be pouring rain at that time too but at least it's closer to grass growing season and ..less chance of losing nutrients.
    Some farmers especially dairy men need to up the game regarding storage...or it'll be imposed on them.no more head in the sand, if you haven't enough storage to get through a long winter cut your numbers or up storage capacity.


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    #2080
    Wildsurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭Wildsurfer


    straight wrote: »
    Ya, cos it never rains or snows in February. Doing the right thing is best, aka good farming practice. I've oceans of storage (pun intended) but there's no guarantee of weather in January or February to get it spread. That's when you see lads out with the rain gun. I'm putting out parlour washings these days on good conditions and it will grow grass over December.
    Would you accept that traditionally in wintertime we get higher rainfall and less growth therefore more runoff of nutrients is likely? If there was no closed period and it was let up to farmers own good judgement to spread only when suitable do you think we would all have invested in as much storage as we have? Do you think you wouldn't see lads spreading on snow and the day before a deluge? Of course not. And if all were to adhere to best farming practice as you do then nobody would be out with rain guns in Jan and Feb either. We need enough storage to get us to the point when it safe to spread, not just until Jan 10th.


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    #2081
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭alps


    straight wrote: »
    Well alot of rules are ridiculous. Lads out with the umbilical on jan 11th in the snow or before a storm is worse than spreading it now.

    The rules are straightforward....no spreading until the 13th, and only then if conditions allow..

    It's not rocket science...

    There is actually no other way to write the rule...


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    #2082
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭alps


    straight wrote: »
    I'm putting out parlour washings these days on good conditions and it will grow grass over December.

    A lot more need to consider this and put facilities in place for it.

    What kind of set up have for the dairy washings? Were you able to get grant aid, or is it as feasible without?

    This type of facility would not only be of benefit to the closed period but all throughout the year most likely..


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    #2083
    straight
    Registered Users Posts: 4,575 ✭✭✭straight


    alps wrote: »
    A lot more need to consider this and put facilities in place for it.

    What kind of set up have for the dairy washings? Were you able to get grant aid, or is it as feasible without?

    This type of facility would not only be of benefit to the closed period but all throughout the year most likely..

    I don't know what feasibility has to do with farming. I couldn't afford to farm only that I made money somewhere else to allow me to farm.


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    #2084
    green daries
    Registered Users Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭green daries


    richie123 wrote: »
    What was wrong with September?
    What a lot of lads don't realize is slurry spread even in dry conditions in October and November will still end up in drains waterways.. because grass just doesn't have the same uptake at that time of year.
    In this day and age with all the grants available there's no excuse not to have adequate storage.
    absolutely this I've built anyone who adhered to the regulations or as near as built as well there's no excuse if you can load on cows and fertiliser you can put in tanks its these people that are going to cause problems for everyone else just because you can travel ground doesn't mean you can or should spread the dates were picked to do with the yearly average growth rates and this time of the year theres huge nutrients lost as soil temperatures are too low
    Dairy washings are allowed and should remain so the science backs it up but it clearly wasn't washings being spread around here


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    #2085
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭alps


    straight wrote: »
    I don't know what feasibility has to do with farming. I couldn't afford to farm only that I made money somewhere else to allow me to farm.

    Lost for words...


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    #2086
    Gillespy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,220 ✭✭✭Gillespy


    richie123 wrote: »
    What was wrong with September?
    What a lot of lads don't realize is slurry spread even in dry conditions in October and November will still end up in drains waterways.. because grass just doesn't have the same uptake at that time of year.
    In this day and age with all the grants available there's no excuse not to have adequate storage.

    Farms have too much grass in September to do anything but follow them as they graze and if you're depending on contractors to spread it for you, it's not really possible.

    Not true slurry spread in a dry October ends up in drains. Who told you that? Grass grows well into the winter and never stops unless it freezes and why would it end up in drains if it didn't grow.

    On the subject of storage, my ideal world would be satisfying the council or department requirement for storage then them leaving me alone to do what and when I please. Nail me if I do something stupid. But no one will want to waste slurry and the deadline only means it is fired out in a mad rush. All slurry contractors will tell you how busy they are because of it


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    #2087
    straight
    Registered Users Posts: 4,575 ✭✭✭straight


    Gillespy wrote: »
    Farms have too much grass in September to do anything but follow them as they graze and if you're depending on contractors to spread it for you, it's not really possible.

    Not true slurry spread in a dry October ends up in drains. Who told you that? Grass grows well into the winter and never stops unless it freezes and why would it end up in drains if it didn't grow.

    On the subject of storage, my ideal world would be satisfying the council or department requirement for storage then them leaving me alone to do what and when I please. Nail me if I do something stupid. But no one will want to waste slurry and the deadline only means it is fired out in a mad rush. All slurry contractors will tell you how busy they are because of it

    Ya, most spring grass is grown in Oct/Nov. I believe the dates were based on average rainfall level and not growth rates. It's not too smart basing anything on averages when it comes to weather.


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    #2088
    richie123
    Registered Users Posts: 790 ✭✭✭richie123


    Gillespy wrote: »
    Farms have too much grass in September to do anything but follow them as they graze and if you're depending on contractors to spread it for you, it's not really possible.

    Not true slurry spread in a dry October ends up in drains. Who told you that? Grass grows well into the winter and never stops unless it freezes and why would it end up in drains if it didn't grow.

    On the subject of storage, my ideal world would be satisfying the council or department requirement for storage then them leaving me alone to do what and when I please. Nail me if I do something stupid. But no one will want to waste slurry and the deadline only means it is fired out in a mad rush. All slurry contractors will tell you how busy they are because of it

    And June July and August ? For God's sake that's unreal
    I spread slurry for a dairy man who was stuck ...his usual contractor was too busy ...right on the deadline in october.he had the whole summer to get it out in good conditions but no left it till the last minute..trust me too much grass wasn't the reason he didn't spread it in time.
    There's no excuse for it none.
    Have way more storage than you require.its heading that way wether men like it or not.


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    #2089
    straight
    Registered Users Posts: 4,575 ✭✭✭straight


    richie123 wrote: »
    And June July and August ? For God's sake that's unreal
    I spread slurry for a dairy man who was stuck ...his usual contractor was too busy ...right on the deadline in october.he had the whole summer to get it out in good conditions but no left it till the last minute..trust me too much grass wasn't the reason he didn't spread it in time.
    There's no excuse for it none.
    Have way more storage than you require.its heading that way wether men like it or not.

    There's messers like that everywhere I'm afraid. No organisation in their lives.


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    #2090
    straight
    Registered Users Posts: 4,575 ✭✭✭straight


    alps wrote: »
    Lost for words...

    Let me explain a little. I gave up a good job to milk cows and I've worked the last few years for free as I pour all cashflow back into stock and facilities. That's not feasible but it's what I chose to do. At the moment I'm looking at buying a tractor and LESS tank for 80 - 100k. Not feasible either but it what I choose to do. I guess if I took the "best" advice I'd have loaded up with cows and wouldn't have bothered with the facilities. Maybe then I'd be "highly profitable" but that's not the direction I chose.


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    #2091
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    straight wrote: »
    Let me explain a little. I gave up a good job to milk cows and I've worked the last few years for free as I pour all cashflow back into stock and facilities. That's not feasible but it's what I chose to do. At the moment I'm looking at buying a tractor and LESS tank for 80 - 100k. Not feasible either but it what I choose to do. I guess if I took the "best" advice I'd have loaded up with cows and wouldn't have bothered with the facilities. Maybe then I'd be "highly profitable" but that's not the direction I chose.

    Are you saying the cows as the fulltime work aren't covering your costs. Not feasible would mean having to sell the cows...?


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    #2092
    straight
    Registered Users Posts: 4,575 ✭✭✭straight


    Mooooo wrote: »
    Are you saying the cows as the fulltime work aren't covering your costs. Not feasible would mean having to sell the cows...?

    Well if I was to pay myself a wage on top of all the investment they wouldn't cover it. Luckily I'm mortgage free as savings from my job built my house and the wife's wages feed me and the kids. Fairly set up now and might start earning a wage in another year or two but I'm more interested in building a farm/herd to be proud of. That's farming as far as I'm concerned. Feel sorry for lads investing big and expecting to get rich.


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    #2093
    Timmaay
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    straight wrote: »
    Let me explain a little. I gave up a good job to milk cows and I've worked the last few years for free as I pour all cashflow back into stock and facilities. That's not feasible but it's what I chose to do. At the moment I'm looking at buying a tractor and LESS tank for 80 - 100k. Not feasible either but it what I choose to do. I guess if I took the "best" advice I'd have loaded up with cows and wouldn't have bothered with the facilities. Maybe then I'd be "highly profitable" but that's not the direction I chose.

    What are the rough economics of spreading yourown slurry against contracting it all out? I contract 100% of it out here, I haven't even bothered doing the sums but I absolutely couldn't be arsed doing it myself even if someone gave me the tanker for free.


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    #2094
    green daries
    Registered Users Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭green daries


    Mooooo wrote: »
    Are you saying the cows as the fulltime work aren't covering your costs. Not feasible would mean having to sell the cows...?

    If you return to dairying or new entrant teagasc any other advisory company and any other accountant including ifac will tell you to forget about a return for 5 to 7 years starting out


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    #2095
    straight
    Registered Users Posts: 4,575 ✭✭✭straight


    Timmaay wrote: »
    What are the rough economics of spreading yourown slurry against contracting it all out? I contract 100% of it out here, I haven't even bothered doing the sums but I absolutely couldn't be arsed doing it myself even if someone gave me the tanker for free.

    Contractors way cheaper. No doubt about it. I'd like to follow the cows with LESS though and don't like depending/begging the contractor. When the young lads grow up a bit they might drive it for me.


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    #2096
    Timmaay
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    straight wrote: »
    Well if I was to pay myself a wage on top of all the investment they wouldn't cover it. Luckily I'm mortgage free as savings from my job built my house and the wife's wages feed me and the kids. Fairly set up now and might start earning a wage in another year or two but I'm more interested in building a farm/herd to be proud of. That's farming as far as I'm concerned. Feel sorry for lads investing big and expecting to get rich.


    I'd actually say thats the very realistic approach, expect not to be able to draw down much a wage the 1st few years, I think I drew down 12k/yr the 1st few years here, while working silly hours, and simple as is the farm needed every penny of reinvested. I was in my mid 20s and the outlook I had was to work hard in my 20s to setup myself for my 30s onwards. And I've plenty optimistism for dairy opportunities moving forward but you absolutely need to be realistic about rents, investments and nope there are plenty ways to get rich a hell of alot easier ha.


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    #2097
    green daries
    Registered Users Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭green daries


    richie123 wrote: »
    And June July and August ? For God's sake that's unreal
    I spread slurry for a dairy man who was stuck ...his usual contractor was too busy ...right on the deadline in october.he had the whole summer to get it out in good conditions but no left it till the last minute..trust me too much grass wasn't the reason he didn't spread it in time.
    There's no excuse for it none.
    Have way more storage than you require.its heading that way wether men like it or not.
    Everyone is going to have to submit a nitrates plan similar to the derogation one and that plan will have to be done by your planner/ teagasc etc they will have to stand over that plan as in legally so not enough storage no licence to milk cows/ fatten cattle. no access to single payments its the way its headed it won't be hard for the department to enforce it's going to be left back to the farmer to comply with the regulations


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    #2098
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    https://teagasc.ie/news--events/daily/dairy/Johnstown-Castle-Winter-Milk-Trials---November-update.php

    Teagasc winter milk herd trials


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    #2099
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    green daries wrote: »
    If you return to dairying or new entrant teagasc any other advisory company and any other accountant including ifac will tell you to forget about a return for 5 to 7 years starting out

    Fair enough, anyone starting a business will be tight enough in terms of drawings in the initial period, which is in order to get the business up and going but after that period if it doesn't pay it's way and provide an income it would be unfeasible. There is a difference between getting up and running and ongoing feasibility.


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    #2100
    Mf310
    Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭Mf310


    green daries wrote: »
    If you return to dairying or new entrant teagasc any other advisory company and any other accountant including ifac will tell you to forget about a return for 5 to 7 years starting out

    Ill be another to disagree, started into dairy in 2018 bought heifers as maidens put them in calf built a second hand parlour 80 cows and milking 90 this year, the farm has never been as profitable even with the added debt. Not saying theres a big wage coming out of the farm but it would be comfortable in that I can reinvest into the farm as it is. Bought a new tractor this year, something as you say teagasc/ifac in their 5 year plan couldnt have considered at all. After doing lots of concrete around the yard over last 2 years and making things simple . To anyone wondering will they make money from 50/60 cows I would have no doubt in saying go for it it will be better than beef or sheep any day of the week and you will get paid for the commitment.


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    #2101
    green daries
    Registered Users Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭green daries


    Mooooo wrote: »
    Fair enough, anyone starting a business will be tight enough in terms of drawings in the initial period, which is in order to get the business up and going but after that period if it doesn't pay it's way and provide an income it would be unfeasible. There is a difference between getting up and running and ongoing feasibility.
    Ya totally agree mooo sorry its not clear from my post that I think this start up phase is going to hide an overall profitability problem on a lot but not all dairy farms had lean times myself when I took over 15odd years ago but anyone in dairy who thinks it's low cost all the way and dammit to anyone else is in for a rude awaking in the next few years the days of load up the cows and we will worry about the rest in a decade when we make a few quid is over....just my view everyone has there own take on the way forward


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