Heavyweight Boxing

selectamatic · 12-09-2019 1:03pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

What everyone's opinion of the opponent for Usyk ,

Iv seen Sprog fight a bunch of times in Kickboxing a couple in person and the guy is capable of knocking anyone out, he has nasty power
,

He's a unit of a man and should be in good condition. And he'll most likely be a more unpredictable opponent than Takkam would have been.

Usyk should be winning handy on points or maybe even getting a late stoppage though if he's going to make a big impression on the division

If his cruiser weight stamina carries over to the hw division he'll be a test for any of the big guys.

If he proves to have a rock solid chin too he'll be a nightmare for them.

walshb · 12-09-2019 2:48pm

Big man, solid, and should be there for several rds to at least have a chance to crack Usyk hard. It's HW, so one good shot and who knows. I expect Sprog to be just that bit too slow. Usyk popping and pepping him non stop for late stoppage. Sprog not being able to set himself due to Usyk's feet and angles.

US2 · 12-09-2019 3:07pm

walshb wrote: »

Verdict still out on Loma.

Superstar is the likes of Manny or Floyd..

Longevity, dominance, weight jumps and global recognition; as well as serious challenges and signature fights.

Loma’s record is decent. No exceptional, or close to exceptional opponents...

He’s very good, but needs higher caliber opposition to cement his legacy..

Like who? I can't see any higher caliber opposition around than what he's beating already ? Davis I suppose but doing everything he can to avoid loma

walshb · 12-09-2019 3:11pm

US2 wrote: »

Like who? I can't see any higher caliber opposition around than what he's beating already ? Davis I suppose but doing everything he can to avoid loma

I know.....the opposition just isn't great.

Loma has good wins vs Linares (who I don't rate near great) and Russell, very good win that one....

Other than these two he has beaten nobody significant.

Anyway, I was debating his superstar status.....he is not a superstar, at least not yet.....

Many have him p4p number 1. I disagree on this.....

US2 · 12-09-2019 3:32pm

walshb wrote: »

I know.....the opposition just isn't great.

Loma has good wins vs Linares (who I don't rate near great) and Russell, very good win that one....

Other than these two he has beaten nobody significant.

Anyway, I was debating his superstar status.....he is not a superstar, at least not yet.....

Many have him p4p number 1. I disagree on this.....

I would say Canelo the only superstars in boxing. Superstardom is a level of fame rather than anything else I think.

walshb · 12-09-2019 3:49pm

US2 wrote: »

I would say Canelo the only superstars in boxing. Superstardom is a level of fame rather than anything else I think.

Yes, agreed!

squinn2912 · 12-09-2019 3:52pm

walshb wrote: »

Yes, agreed!

Both Usyk and Loma get a mention for me in this conversation. Loma has fought some very good fighters and dismantled them. The 4 in a row retiring on their stools is impressive. He's 3 weight and on target to unify. He's done it all so early in his pro career too. Usyk similar and unified CW champion but I'm happy to concede that the jury can't rest until we see how he goes in HW

WB Yokes · 12-09-2019 3:52pm

LukFwd wrote: »

None of it should be PPV

Its defo a ppv by Hearn/UK standards. We should all be well used to matchroom at this stage. IPTV for the win.

walshb · 12-09-2019 4:24pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

Both Usyk and Loma get a mention for me in this conversation. Loma has fought some very good fighters and dismantled them. The 4 in a row retiring on their stools is impressive. He's 3 weight and on target to unify. He's done it all so early in his pro career too. Usyk similar and unified CW champion but I'm happy to concede that the jury can't rest until we see how he goes in HW

All valid Loma points. I just think he needs more to really cement himself, or get himself close to many great names from the past.

Usyk.......I was never excited about him, even though I know he is talented.

Another one who needs this big wins against big names....

What is his best win? The final of the CW tourny against a very poor Gassiev...mummy!

selectamatic · 12-09-2019 4:49pm

walshb wrote: »

All valid Loma points. I just think he needs more to really cement himself, or get himself close to many great names from the past.

Usyk.......I was never excited about him, even though I know he is talented.

Another one who needs this big wins against big names....

What is his best win? The final of the CW tourny against a very poor Gassiev...mummy!

Tbf Usyk made him look like a mummy he never stopped moving for the 12rds it was like watching a welterweight in terms of movement.

Canelo has some asterisks relating to his career too which kinda damage his stardom.

walshb · 12-09-2019 4:50pm

selectamatic wrote: »

Tbf Usyk made him look like a mummy he never stopped moving for the 12rds it was like watching a welterweight in terms of movement.

Canelo has some asterisks relating to his career too which kinda damage his stardom.

Gassiev never overly impressed me to begin with. Mummy to begin with, just really emphasized when he fought Usyk.

WB Yokes · 12-09-2019 4:51pm

Speaking of gassiev, any word on when hes making his HW debut?

US2 · 12-09-2019 4:56pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

Both Usyk and Loma get a mention for me in this conversation. Loma has fought some very good fighters and dismantled them. The 4 in a row retiring on their stools is impressive. He's 3 weight and on target to unify. He's done it all so early in his pro career too. Usyk similar and unified CW champion but I'm happy to concede that the jury can't rest until we see how he goes in HW

If the question is about being a star (popularity) Loma and especially Usyk aren't in the conversation. Loma is probably the most skilled fighter Ive seen, but the average Joe doesn't know him.

selectamatic · 12-09-2019 4:59pm

walshb wrote: »

Gassiev never overly impressed me to begin with. Mummy to begin with, just really emphasized when he fought Usyk.

True he's a bit robotic but I don't think any other CW would have beaten him in that tournament.

walshb · 12-09-2019 5:02pm

selectamatic wrote: »

True he's a bit robotic but I don't think any other CW would have beaten him in that tournament.

True....

A prime Lebedev would have eaten him up...

selectamatic · 12-09-2019 5:06pm

walshb wrote: »

True....

A prime Lebedev would have eaten him up...

Ya I'm a big fan of Lebedev he fought like a warrior that night too.

squinn2912 · 12-09-2019 6:30pm

selectamatic wrote: »

Ya I'm a big fan of Lebedev he fought like a warrior that night too.

Oh Gassiev I thought yous were saying he’d beat Usyk! Doubt that.

selectamatic · 12-09-2019 7:53pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

Oh Gassiev I thought yous were saying he’d beat Usyk! Doubt that.

Na Usyk at cruiser would have been all wrong for Lebedev.

I'd like to see Usyk make big in roads in the HW division purely from a physical spectacle stand point. He is a very likeable character too.

squinn2912 · 12-09-2019 10:03pm

selectamatic wrote: »

Na Usyk at cruiser would have been all wrong for Lebedev.

I'd like to see Usyk make big in roads in the HW division purely from a physical spectacle stand point. He is a very likeable character too.

I think him in the hw division is fascinating I can’t wait to see if he can take the hits

yourdeadwright · 12-09-2019 11:03pm

So what this nonsene im hearing turns out Dillian Whytes brother Dean isnt even his brother and his name isn't Dean Whyte but Lemar Scott WTF !!!!

weirdo going around pretending to be Dillians brother,

Turn out he has some horrible gang related past so just pretended to be Dillian brother so he could go to all these events and get tv gigs that he wouldn't if they knew who he really was

squinn2912 · 13-09-2019 4:35pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

So what this nonsene im hearing turns out Dillian Whytes brother Dean isnt even his brother and his name isn't Dean Whyte but Lemar Scott WTF !!!!

weirdo going around pretending to be Dillians brother,

Turn out he has some horrible gang related past so just pretended to be Dillian brother so he could go to all these events and get tv gigs that he wouldn't if they knew who he really was

That is insane!!! I think I’d sooner claim to be Lennox’s son though! Aiming low

Brief_Lives · 15-09-2019 1:29pm

Hi people, I didn't see the Fury fi ght... Was it a yawnfest, or decent.... The online sites are a bore fest in comparison...

simongurnick · 15-09-2019 1:30pm

Brief_Lives wrote: »

Hi people, I didn't see the Fury fi ght... Was it a yawnfest, or decent.... The online sites are a bore fest in comparison...

Very entertaining. Well worth a look

yourdeadwright · 15-09-2019 1:51pm

It was a decent fight,
People having a go at Fury for not just walking through him obvioulsy havent watched Fury much ,

Fury always does enough to win its just the way he boxes its very rare he blasts anyone out ,
If u look at a whole host of fights hes had against lower ranked fighters he always just does enogh to wins,
THe magic of Fury is so far hes managed to translate into fights aginst top ranked guys where he just does enough to win ,
I think it suits him to fight better fighters of tHat makes sense ,

weemcd · 15-09-2019 2:07pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

It was a decent fight,
People having a go at Fury for not just walking through him obvioulsy havent watched Fury much ,

Fury always does enough to win its just the way he boxes its very rare he blasts anyone out ,
If u look at a whole host of fights hes had against lower ranked fighters he always just does enogh to wins,
THe magic of Fury is so far hes managed to translate into fights aginst top ranked guys where he just does enough to win ,
I think it suits him to fight better fighters of tHat makes sense ,

100% agree, he always fights to the level of his opponents. The best bring out the best in Fury, both in the ring and the motivation that brings his training camp.

walshb · 15-09-2019 3:50pm

That was a scary call for Fury as regards the eye..nasty injury, that will require plastic surgery, and the punch that caused it was very innocuous.

Nasty cheating by Wallin at end of 6th, with his deliberate raking the injury..

Fury has a great engine, (now we know why nandrolone was used) and I think if he was to sit down a bit more on his shots, he could be taking these lads out. Wallin is out and out poor...

Fury seems to pitter patter too much, instead of more determined focused punching. When he decides to go for it he has a good all around offensive array...

I still think he is goosed vs Wlider next time. Wilder won’t fail to land properly early, this time...

normanoffside · 15-09-2019 3:59pm

Just watched the fight.
Surprised at how good Fury's fitness/cardio is despite the flabby looking middle.
I guess he is never going to lose that no matter how fit and trim he gets given how high he had ballooned in weight.

Entertaining fight, despite the cut the rounds should do Fury good but I also can't help think a guy of his calibre should be taking out guys like Wallin with more ease.

walshb · 15-09-2019 4:21pm

Wallin would last all of a coupe rds v Wilder or AJ..

Anyway, Fury isn’t a killer, but he still should be able to land enough solid offense to not have to go 12 tiring rds against the likes of Wallin..

yourdeadwright · 15-09-2019 5:26pm

walshb wrote: »

That was a scary call for Fury as regards the eye..nasty injury, that will require plastic surgery, and the punch that caused it was very innocuous.

Nasty cheating by Wallin at end of 6th, with his deliberate raking the injury..

Fury has a great engine, (now we know why nandrolone was used) and I think if he was to sit down a bit more on his shots, he could be taking these lads out. Wallin is out and out poor...

Fury seems to pitter patter too much, instead of more determined focused punching. When he decides to go for it he has a good all around offensive array...

I still think he is goosed vs Wlider next time. Wilder won’t fail to land properly early, this time...

Its the problem with Wilder , if u dont stop him he can literally put your livhts out in any second of any round , It means Fury has to be perfect or stop him i think hes more chance of being perfect ,

I see Big John Fury on a rant saying Tyson needs to change his whole camp Davis included

dougm1970 · 15-09-2019 6:30pm

fury very lucky he didnt get a loss last night ....a cut like that, and it was 2 cuts, bleeding into the eye obscuring vision ..lots of refs, if impartial, would have stopped it...or gone to the doctor more times than he did.
i'm convinced if wallin had them cuts he wouldnt be let finish the fight.
anyway....what an engine on fury for a man as massive in size as he is.

Bobby Baccala · 15-09-2019 8:29pm

dougm1970 wrote: »

fury very lucky he didnt get a loss last night ....a cut like that, and it was 2 cuts, bleeding into the eye obscuring vision ..lots of refs, if impartial, would have stopped it...or gone to the doctor more times than he did.
i'm convinced if wallin had them cuts he wouldnt be let finish the fight.
anyway....what an engine on fury for a man as massive in size as he is.

Reminded me of Vittali Vs Lennox, that was stopped for less.

Wallin was an awkward fighter didn't make too bad an account of himself. Where is Fury's punching power though he should be blowing away the likes of him.

murphyebass · 15-09-2019 8:33pm

Bobby Baccala wrote: »

Reminded me of Vittali Vs Lennox, that was stopped for less.

Wallin was an awkward fighter didn't make too bad an account of himself. Where is Fury's punching power though he should be blowing away the likes of him.

Fury’s never had major knockout power but he’s a phenomenal boxer.

I think he’ll beat wilder in the rematch knockout power or not.

Should have won the first fight. Was a joke!

BDI · 15-09-2019 8:40pm

Wallin gave a very good account of himself, fury didn’t get out of the way as quick as he used to. Even caught again in the 12th.
Could be a one off. If he fought Joshua or wilder at that level he would be knocked out.

Morrison J · 15-09-2019 8:53pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its the problem with Wilder , if u dont stop him he can literally put your livhts out in any second of any round , It means Fury has to be perfect or stop him i think hes more chance of being perfect ,

Well he was nowhere near perfect in the first fight and clearly won. He can take a great shot. Wilder will need to land a perfect shot to put Fury away.

Was very impressed with Fury's inside game last night. Think thats his best tactic to beat Wilder tbh. Put his body on him and beat him up inside. Take Wilder's loopy right hook out of the equation.

yourdeadwright · 15-09-2019 9:08pm

Morrison J wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its the problem with Wilder , if u dont stop him he can literally put your livhts out in any second of any round , It means Fury has to be perfect or stop him i think hes more chance of being perfect ,

Well he was nowhere near perfect in the first fight and clearly won. He can take a great shot. Wilder will need to land a perfect shot to put Fury away.

Was very impressed with Fury's inside game last night. Think thats his best tactic to beat Wilder tbh. Put his body on him and beat him up inside. Take Wilder's loopy right hook out of the equation.

The gameolab first time was perfect and worked , id srick to it for the second fight ,

I wonder did Fury body feel the weight loss and back to back fight camps last night as he didnt look nearly as sharp as last time out ,he needs a proper rest now

walshb · 16-09-2019 9:53am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I wonder did Fury body feel the weight loss and back to back fight camps last night as he didnt look nearly as sharp as last time out ,he needs a proper rest now

I noticed his sharpness seemed off. Shots were a little labored....

walshb · 16-09-2019 9:59am

Morrison J wrote: »

Was very impressed with Fury's inside game last night. Think thats his best tactic to beat Wilder tbh. Put his body on him and beat him up inside. Take Wilder's loopy right hook out of the equation.

This is pretty much the game-plan for Fury to win....close distance and work Wilder over from close range....

Oh, and be very careful that he doesn't get knocked out via an inside uppercut. Wilder can really throw them.

Fury needs to be a bit more adventurous and engaging and risky. I thought he got far too much credit for the drawn fight. Was like folks were crediting him for surviving, and being competitive after a layoff. I watched the fight back, and a lot of the rds were very difficult to score. Fury's offence was ok, nothing great. A lot of work from both men was not clean landing work....

Fan of Netflix · 16-09-2019 10:16am

Why is Wilder fighting Ortiz again? He already knocked him out last year.

Fan of Netflix · 16-09-2019 10:19am

Fury often underperforms against these sort of opponents. He is not great at putting them away. I think he can pull it together though for Wilder II, hopefully that eye heals up good, looked nasty.

John does know what he's talking about. I do wonder about Davidson the trainer, is he just good pals with him. Peter Fury would be preferable but obviously something isn't right there with that relationship.

WB Yokes · 16-09-2019 11:15am

I take it Wilder Fury 2 wont happen in February now? Surely Fury will be out for 6 months to give those nasty cuts time to heal.

The Nal · 16-09-2019 11:18am

WB Yokes wrote: »

I take it Wilder Fury 2 wont happen in February now? Surely Fury will be out for 6 months to give those nasty cuts time to heal.

We'll see how good the plastic surgeon is! His cut man should be knighted so assume hes a good surgeon too.

yourdeadwright · 16-09-2019 11:40am

WB Yokes wrote: »

I take it Wilder Fury 2 wont happen in February now? Surely Fury will be out for 6 months to give those nasty cuts time to heal.

To be fair that date is up in the air because isn't Wilder suppose to fight in October ?
He could easily get injured himself in that one ,

walshb · 16-09-2019 12:48pm

The Nal wrote: »

We'll see how good the plastic surgeon is! His cut man should be knighted so assume hes a good surgeon too.

Really was a nasty cut. And was flowing right till the end

Something like this can end a career, as regards how well it heals, and how vulnerable it is to future connections....

The Nal · 16-09-2019 12:53pm

walshb wrote: »

Really was a nasty cut. And was flowing right till the end

Something like this can end a career, as regards how well it heals, and how vulnerable it is to future connections....

Yeah for example. Shows how important cut men are.

https://twitter.com/JOE_co_uk/status/1173170643879305216

normanoffside · 16-09-2019 8:19pm

Pretty good summary of the fight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ln9_PndqoM

19-09-2019 11:51pm

Hey Guys... I am much more of an mma fan than a boxing fan but I do watch a lot of the heavyweight boxing fights but I am not an educated boxing fan by any means.

What do some of the boxing aficionados here think of Ben Davison? Is the criticism of him deserved?

yourdeadwright · 20-09-2019 10:15am

Deleted User wrote: »

Hey Guys... I am much more of an mma fan than a boxing fan but I do watch a lot of the heavyweight boxing fights but I am not an educated boxing fan by any means.

What do some of the boxing aficionados here think of Ben Davison? Is the criticism of him deserved?

For me its too early to say really ,

Plus being a brilliant trainer only works if you have a fighter that needs your strenghts as a trainer and is already strong at your weak points as a trainer ,

Look back at the history of boxing take the top ten trainer / fighter partnerships that are know the world over and swap the fighter around and they wouldnt be as succesful,

Would Enzo been as succesful with anyone other than Joe ?

Ward and Hu ter where made for each other

Would Flyod have got to where he did without his dad ,

Its impossible to tell , only time will tell on Ben and Tyson and if it fails it doesnt mean its just the trainers fault either

walshb · 20-09-2019 11:27am

Trainers can be both underrated and overrated IMO.

The boxer does the work......

Of course, some fighters need that extra little bit to keep them fierce and focused and at their best

Trainer's main goal is to keep their man focused, hungry and passionate....

Kevin Rooney!!!!!!! Mike Tyson!!!!!

yourdeadwright · 20-09-2019 5:57pm

walshb wrote: »

Trainers can be both underrated and overrated IMO.

The boxer does the work......

Of course, some fighters need that extra little bit to keep them fierce and focused and at their best

Trainer's main goal is to keep their man focused, hungry and passionate....

Kevin Rooney!!!!!!! Mike Tyson!!!!!

Spot on you can teach a fighter all u want but its up to him to use it and stick to game plans and so on

squinn2912 · 27-09-2019 7:41pm

Anyone gonna look at Daniel Dubois tonight? I’d think early-mid ko

Heavyweight Boxing

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