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Milk and Dairy
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auspicious wrote: »The public, even doctors, are not though about nutrition.
Every parent should know how to feed their child a healthy diet.
The article you posted addresses concerns about inadequately provided diets by unknowledgeable parents.
This should also apply to negligent parents feeding kids a terrible diet of sugar and fast food, that grow obese or have tooth decay and fillings etc as a result.
From your article
"...Although there have been case reports of children failing to thrive or developing cobalamin deficiency on vegan diets, these are rare exceptions,” the academy notes on its website. “Multiple experts have concluded independently that vegan diets can be followed safely by infants and children without compromise of nutrition or growth and with some notable health benefits.”
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/29/vegans-trial-death-baby-breast-milk0 -
This thread is about Milk and dairy = cruelty, and the suffering, abuse and torture animals suffer for an unnecessary diet as it has been proven and signed off on by numerous experts that a diet without meat and dairy is adequate and healthy.
The hate vegans have is for the suffering animals endure unnecessarily at human hands.
But I think that is known already.0 -
auspicious wrote: »The public, even doctors, are not though about nutrition.
Every parent should know how to feed their child a healthy diet.
The article you posted addresses concerns about inadequately provided diets by unknowledgeable parents.
This should also apply to negligent parents feeding kids a terrible diet of sugar and fast food, that grow obese or have tooth decay and fillings etc as a result.
From your article
"...Although there have been case reports of children failing to thrive or developing cobalamin deficiency on vegan diets, these are rare exceptions,” the academy notes on its website. “Multiple experts have concluded independently that vegan diets can be followed safely by infants and children without compromise of nutrition or growth and with some notable health benefits.”
That is a fair point and no doubt it is possible but having seen 2 year olds actually fight over the bone of a t bone steak there is something fundamentally wrong with someone denying them the chance to experience an extremely pleasurable natural healthy form of food because of a “belief” and undergo blood tests and supplements instead.
Is a vegans cat and dog treated with the same? Should animals of prey in the wild be converted?0 -
auspicious wrote: »This thread is about Milk and dairy = cruelty, and the suffering, abuse and torture animals suffer for an unnecessary diet as it has been proven and signed off on by numerous experts that a diet without meat and dairy is adequate and healthy.
The hate vegans have is for the suffering animals endure unnecessarily at human hands.
But I think that is known already.
There is no productive or economic benefit to abuse or torture. Thriving content animals are the most efficient and productive.0 -
Yes. Again negligent parenting. You are not doing a lot to convince people of your belief.
I think you are in the wrong page. You should be preaching about the perils of bad parenting on the Parenting page.0 -
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auspicious wrote: »This thread is about Milk and dairy = cruelty, and the suffering, abuse and torture animals suffer for an unnecessary diet as it has been proven and signed off on by numerous experts that a diet without meat and dairy is adequate and healthy.
The hate vegans have is for the suffering animals endure unnecessarily at human hands.
But I think that is known already.
Missed the point made?
From the title of the thread - it is clear that this thread is about pushing a lifestyle choice by means of denigrating others specifically dairy farming.
And Just as a thread about "Vegan diets = cruelty to children". could be used to show the suffering, abuse and torture of children and babies because those parents choose to inflict a dangerous / unnecessary diet on babies and children - all of which would be proven and signed off on by numerous experts as being potentially harmful.
What would you think of such a thread? I personally think it would be wrong
That said hate and intolerance some vegan threads show for others is little better the above scenario tbh. And all that despite the absolute majority of farms being managed legally and ethically.
But I think that is known already.0 -
There is no productive or economic benefit to abuse or torture. Thriving content animals are the most efficient and productive.
https://www.thejournal.ie/up-to-2000-pigs-killed-in-farm-blaze-in-co-down-5198692-Sep2020
This is how pigs are farmed in Ireland, crammed in on top of each other in boxes and never seeing the light of day. You think these are thriving and content? No, rearing animals this way is abuse and torture done purely for money.0 -
Thelonious Monk wrote: »https://www.thejournal.ie/up-to-2000-pigs-killed-in-farm-blaze-in-co-down-5198692-Sep2020
This is how pigs are farmed in Ireland, crammed in on top of each other in boxes and never seeing the light of day. You think these are thriving and content? No, rearing animals this way is abuse and torture done purely for money.
Thats in Northern Ireland btw.
You should do a bit more reading tbf. I personally would advocate for free range systems. But your description is wrong. Pigs are not "crammed in on top of each other in boxes".
This is a working indoor system in the UK. which as in Ireland must meet statutory stocking controls
https://youtu.be/5zifDcGVaKE?t=2m49s
Where there are incidents of poor animal welfare - that should be dealt with. Not used as a stick to beat others with ...0 -
Thelonious Monk wrote: »https://www.thejournal.ie/up-to-2000-pigs-killed-in-farm-blaze-in-co-down-5198692-Sep2020
This is how pigs are farmed in Ireland, crammed in on top of each other in boxes and never seeing the light of day. You think these are thriving and content? No, rearing animals this way is abuse and torture done purely for money.
If you stress pigs they don’t be long telling you with disease and mortality and there is no profit in that. That article only tells of an enormous disastrous fire. A firefighter was injured, I hope he make a good recovery. No indication of the nonsense you just wrote.0 -
Interesting video0 -
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tismesoitis wrote: »Interesting video??? If you believe everything you see and hear then there is no hope for you. This whole thread is a disgrace. Borderline incitement to hatred
Sorry mate did not mean to upset you. If you want me to delete the post I will. I don’t mind. I’m not one for getting into debates online. I really don’t have the time.
I just found it interesting that the majority of the world’s population are lactose intolerant. I really thought it was the other way around. Well I suppose its what kind of culture you are brought up in.
I’m lactose intolerant, do you know what that’s like??
If you have a small bit of dairy you will have a bad dose of diarrhoea. If you consume a lot of dairy, you end up with a massive migraine with a lot of vomiting. Once its out of your system your grand.
So, its best just to avoid dairy altogether.
If you want to enlighten me about the lies in that video, I’m all ears.0 -
I don't know what his problem is, we have the right to question accepted practices. There would be no social progress if people didn't challenge the status quo. If that offends you that's your issue.0
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I think he forgot about goats milk. Sheep are also milked has more to do with the teat shape and size plus the return for effort. Like who the feck would milk a dog. Urbanization led to an increase in the dairy farming. Most house holds had a cow or would have bought milk directly from their neighbor's. Haven't checked anything else for facts in the video but given those two glaring holes would there be much point.0
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On a side note I enjoyed the background music.0
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I think he forgot about goats milk. Sheep are also milked has more to do with the teat shape and size plus the return for effort. Like who the feck would milk a dog. Urbanization led to an increase in the dairy farming. Most house holds had a cow or would have bought milk directly from their neighbor's. Haven't checked anything else for facts in the video but given those two glaring holes would there be much point.
I really think you debunked that video with that post.
He focuses on dairy cows because 85% of all milk worldwide comes from cows. When was the last time you popped into a corner shop and got a pint of sheep’s milk???
Humans also consume milk from water buffalos, camels, donkeys, horses, pigs, reindeer and yaks.
Like who the feck would milk a horse.
He talks about dedicated dairy farms. A quick look on google and you will find that there were very few dairy farms in the US before WW1. To be classed as a dairy farm 40% of your income must come from dairy. With a high demand for dairy around that period more famers got into dedicated dairy farming.0 -
Sorry mate did not mean to upset you. If you want me to delete the post I will. I don’t mind. I’m not one for getting into debates online. I really don’t have the time. I just found it interesting that the majority of the world’s population are lactose intolerant. I really thought it was the other way around. Well I suppose its what kind of culture you are brought up in. I’m lactose intolerant, do you know what that’s like?? If you have a small bit of dairy you will have a bad dose of diarrhoea. If you consume a lot of dairy, you end up with a massive migraine with a lot of vomiting. Once its out of your system your grand. So, its best just to avoid dairy altogether. If you want to enlighten me about the lies in that video, I’m all ears.
Fek away with that type of rubbish You say you don't want discussion but are quite happy to post bs propaganda videos going on about "government collusion" and everyone being "lied to". What a load of horse manure.
And no - the absolute majority of people in Ireland and northern Europe are not lactose intolant and don’t spontanously explode when they drink milk or whatever you are trying to peddle as part of your personal bias. Notably you recount your alleged issues with dairy products in the third person as if that somehow will happen to eveyone. You're kidding no one my friend.
And yes its a fact practically all children worldwide can consume dairy products including milk up to at least up 6-7 years old. So your personal account is little more than that.
As someone one above has already stated above - this thread runs close to the line of incitment to hatred against farmers and farming in many respects.
In a previous comment I already asked how would posters here react if others put up a "Vegan diets = cruelty to babies and children" thread in the farming forum based on the many reported cases of this happening and resulting convictions
I personally would think it would be against Boards TOU - but here we have a small number of posters vilifying farming and farmers in order to promote their lifestyle choice using Videos from the US and God knows where which have fek all relevance to farming here.
I could go on but I 'don't have time' ...0 -
Most vegans don't hate farmers at all. We're not a homogenous group of people or a cult. It's laughable to suggest that. We hate the act of dairy farming as well as other parts of animal based agriculture. It's not a lifestyle, it's ethics.
Controlling the reproductive process of another creature, separating it's offspring, killing it when it's spent and the culling or live export of unwanted males soon after they are born - does that really sound like a cruelty free industry? I don't really think farmers enjoy these aspects and merely accept them as part of their reality. If you don't feel anything when you kill a week old animal then there's something wrong with you. The former farmers turned vegan talk about this issue way better than I do.
As people who want better protection for animals and for humans to respect their sentience, it's perfectly acceptable for us to challenge dairy farming and push for social change. You can't silence us because it makes you uncomfortable or you disagree with us.
Something's only propaganda when you disagree with it even though there are truths in the message. He's made a video looking at the industry overall. Obviously some cows live reasonable enough lives in a field here for the most part but that's built upon the premise that they'll keep producing milk and babies. As soon as they dry up it's off to the slaughterhouse to become pet food.0 -
Most vegans don't hate farmers at all. We're not a homogenous group of people or a cult. It's laughable to suggest that. We hate the act of dairy farming as well as other parts of animal based agriculture. It's not a lifestyle, it's ethics. Controlling the reproductive process of another creature, separating it's offspring, killing it when it's spent and the culling or live export of unwanted males soon after they are born - does that really sound like a cruelty free industry? I don't really think farmers enjoy these aspects and merely accept them as part of their reality. If you don't feel anything when you kill a week old animal then there's something wrong with you. The former farmers turned vegan talk about this issue way better than I do. As people who want better protection for animals and for humans to respect their sentience, it's perfectly acceptable for us to challenge dairy farming and push for social change. You can't silence us because it makes you uncomfortable or you disagree with us. Something's only propaganda when you disagree with it even though there are truths in the message. He's made a video looking at the industry overall. Obviously some cows live reasonable enough lives in a field here for the most part but that's built upon the premise that they'll keep producing milk and babies. As soon as they dry up it's off to the slaughterhouse to become pet food.
Well tbh you wouldn't know it from this thread and others vilifying farmers in this forum. The hate expressed most certainly is targeted at farming and farmers. And the making generalisations largely based on vegan videos and websites certainly does not add to any argument. Such videos use information selectively and more often than not only show worse case incident usually in the US or the UK. So yeah about as relevant as a bag of weasels
You suggest its about "ethics". Whose ethics exactly? Your own? The absolute majority of farmers in my experience treat animals with care and welfare in mind. Not only because its what the law says but also because its the right thing to do. The fact you don't like that is neither here nor there.
My ethics include strong feelings against children and babies being starved by parents forcing unsuitable vegan diets on them. As suggested how would you feel about such a thread in lets say the Farming forum including videis and testimonies? You be OK with that? Or would you point out maybe that's not the whole story?
To paraphrase some of the language you've used: If you don't you feel anything when you see a baby starved to the point of brain damage then there's something wrong with you. There are ex vegans and others who openly talk about this issue way better than I do.
As people who want better protection for children who cant speak up for themselves it's therefore perfectly acceptable for others to challenge this type of bs and push for change. You can't silence us because it makes you uncomfortable or you disagree with us.
Easy to swing an emotive message isnt it?
But as you said something's only propaganda when you disagree with it even though there are truths in the message. ....0 -
Hey dude, I offered to take the post down two hours after a comment was made on it, but the request was never made, so its still up there.Fek away with that type of rubbish You say you don't want discussion but are quite happy to post bs propaganda videos going on about "government collusion" and everyone being "lied to". What a load of horse manure.
If you want to go ahead and point out the lies in the video go ahead.
I said the majority of the worlds population are lactose intolerant and that is a scientific fact that you will find in peer reviewed science papers. Ireland and northern Europe does not make up majority of the world’s population.And no - the absolute majority of people in Ireland and northern Europe are not lactose intolant and don’t spontanously explode when they drink milk or whatever you are trying to peddle as part of your personal bias. Notably you recount your alleged issues with dairy products in the third person as if that somehow will happen to eveyone. You're kidding no one my friend.
And yes its a fact practically all children worldwide can consume dairy products including milk up to at least up 6-7 years old. So your personal account is little more than that.
As for my “alleged issues with dairy products” I was drinking milk well into my thirties. There was nothing better than a pint of milk and a bag of chips.
It did not just happen overnight; I suddenly didn’t wake up thinking to myself that I’m now lactose intolerant. It started out with a lot of heartburn and then I started having other issues that I mention in an early post. That was over the course of about 6 months. I was advised by a dietitian to cut down or cut out dairy.
Thousands of children die each day from hunger and malnourishment, but that doesn’t make good headlines. Whereas this does “'Vegan' parents charged in death of malnourished son.”In a previous comment I already asked how would posters here react if others put up a "Vegan diets = cruelty to babies and children" thread in the farming forum based on the many reported cases of this happening and resulting convictions
A bit like the headlines of an article you linked
"Vegans should stop drinking soya milk in order to save the rainforest"
Vegans go against the norm, and people do not like it.
There are plenty of parents out there raising their children on a vegan diet, but they do have to go that extra step and ensure that the child is getting the key nutrients required for growth and development. If the parents are not putting in that extra effort then, they should not have the child on a vegan diet.
There are also just wacky people out there, both vegan and non-vegan who are just not fit to raise a child.
https://www.thesun.ie/news/4482436/couple-who-dont-believe-in-doctors-charged-with-starving-son-3-to-death/
You should put up that thread but it should read “Bad parenting = cruelty to babies and children"I could go on but I 'don't have time' ...
Looking at your post count, I really think you do.
Anyway, that is my keyboard warrior posts done for the year. See you next year0 -
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Well tbh you wouldn't know it from this thread. The hate expressed most certainly is targeted at farming and farmers. And the making generalisations largely based on vegan videos and websites certainly does not add to any argument. Such videos use information selectively and more often than not only show worse case incidents usually in the US or the UK. So yeah about as relevant as a bag of weasels
You suggest its about "ethics". Whose ethics exactly? Your own? The absolute majority of farmers in my experience treat animals with care and welfare in mind. Not only because its what the law says but also because its the right thing to do. The fact you don't like that is neither here nor there.
I personally don't like the fact that children and babies are being starved by parents forcing unsuitable vegan diets on them. As suggested how would you feel about such a thread in lets say the Farming forum? You be OK with that? Or would you point out maybe that's not the whole story?
To paraphrase some of the language you've used: If you don't you feel anything when you see a baby starved to the point of brain damage then there's something wrong with you. There are ex vegans snd others who openly talk about this issue way better than I do.
As people who want better protection for children who cant speak up for themselves it's therefore perfectly acceptable for others to challenge this type of bs and push for change. You can't silence us because it makes you uncomfortable or you disagree with us.
Easy to swing an emotive message isnt it?
But as you said something's only propaganda when you disagree with it even though there are truths in the message. ....
Anyone who raises their children without considering their needs should be condemned. It's child abuse. Thankfully we have social services to intervene. FYI, A well planned predominantly whole foods plant based diet is suitable for all stages of life and I challenge you to provide me evidence to the contrary outside of some extreme cases of child neglect and abuse. Plenty of non-vegan parents neglect their children. ****ty people come in all shapes and sizes.
Ethics and morals are of course are entirely subjective. Yours allows for tolerating animal exploitation and cruelty which you're legally entitled to do. I'm also entitled to challenge your ethics and what is socially acceptable. Otherwise we would never have social progress on anything.
The issues I've highlighted are cruel and everyday practices of the dairy industry which are of course legally allowed. Is legally culling a 7 day old male calf because it's an economic burden moral? Would you say strangling puppys because you didn't want them is ethical? The law is the difference between the two. One is food and ones family despite both being sentient creatures capable of deep emotional bonds.
We can very clearly see that animals are visibly distressed when they experience insemination, have their babies removed, are brought to slaughterhouses and kept on boats for 30 days. Is the act of harming someone or something, inflicting pain, whether emotional, mental or physical moral? I think compassion is a cornerstone of ethics/morality. Veganism at its core is a movement to live in a way that more compassionate with other humans and the natural world.
Farmers will adapt to growing whatever the market needs. If the market becomes more plant based then they'll change. They'll still earn money and get state aid. But we need transparency and accountability as to where our food comes from including all accepted practices within dairy farming. You've failed to explain to me how any of the issues that I've raised are not cruel? (Which is of course what this threads about milk+ dairy =cruelty)0 -
Hey dude, I offered to take the post down two hours after a comment was made on it, but the request was never made, so its still up there. If you want to go ahead and point out the lies in the video go ahead. I said the majority of the worlds population are lactose intolerant and that is a scientific fact that you will find in peer reviewed science papers. Ireland and northern Europe does not make up majority of the world’s population. As for my “alleged issues with dairy products” I was drinking milk well into my thirties. There was nothing better than a pint of milk and a bag of chips. It did not just happen overnight; I suddenly didn’t wake up thinking to myself that I’m now lactose intolerant. It started out with a lot of heartburn and then I started having other issues that I mention in an early post. That was over the course of about 6 months. I was advised by a dietitian to cut down or cut out dairy.Thousands of children die each day from hunger and malnourishment, but that doesn’t make good headlines. Whereas this does “'Vegan' parents charged in death of malnourished son.” A bit like the headlines of an article you linked "Vegans should stop drinking soya milk in order to save the rainforest. Vegans go against the norm, and people do not like it. There are plenty of parents out there raising their children on a vegan diet, but they do have to go that extra step and ensure that the child is getting the key nutrients required for growth and development. If the parents are not putting in that extra effort then, they should not have the child on a vegan diet. There are also just wacky people out there, both vegan and non-vegan who are just not fit to raise a child https://www.thesun.ie/news/4482436/couple-who-dont-believe-in-doctors-charged-with-starving-son-3-to-death
You should put up that thread but it should read Bad parenting = cruelty to babies and children"Looking at your post count, I really think you do.Anyway, that is my keyboard warrior posts done for the year. See you next year
Go ahead take it down - not just me saying this thread is verging on outright hate and vilification.
Btw I took a look and the video is another load of generalised vegan coblers. I think that fairly well covers it.
I see you and your fellow poster are relatively new posters. However I somehow think testimonies on your or my medical issues prove anything on way or the other do they?
The point on " I don't have time" was whst you said regarding your posting vegan videos which allegedly tell us that's it all a big conspiracy or wtte. But then claiming you didnt have time to discuss same. Seems that's changed eh?
The comparison of "vegan diets=cruelty to children" and "dairy = cruelty" is that they are exactly the same type of threads. Both aiming to villiyfy and attacking others. Odd some seem to be in denial here about that no?
And do we see actual threads in this forum actually discussing these type of vegan related problems or people giving advice on these issues Do we fuk.
Nope its endleas anti farming bs propaganda. Thread after thread. And some wonder why some posters might stand up and point out the inherent hypocrisy.
But there ye go. That's where we are eh?0 -
Anyone who raises their children without considering their needs should be condemned. It's child abuse. Thankfully we have social services to intervene. FYI, A well planned predominantly whole foods plant based diet is suitable for all stages of life and I challenge you to provide me evidence to the contrary outside of some extreme cases of child neglect and abuse. Plenty of non-vegan parents neglect their children. ****ty people come in all shapes and sizes. Ethics and morals are of course are entirely subjective. Yours allows for tolerating animal exploitation and cruelty which you're legally entitled to do. I'm also entitled to challenge your ethics and what is socially acceptable. Otherwise we would never have social progress on anything. The issues I've highlighted are cruel and everyday practices of the dairy industry which are of course legally allowed. Is legally culling a 7 day old male calf because it's an economic burden moral? Would you say strangling puppys because you didn't want them is ethical? The law is the difference between the two. One is food and ones family despite both being sentient creatures capable of deep emotional bonds. We can very clearly see that animals are visibly distressed when they experience insemination, have their babies removed, are brought to slaughterhouses and kept on boats for 30 days. Is the act of harming someone or something, inflicting pain, whether emotional, mental or physical moral? I think compassion is a cornerstone of ethics/morality. Veganism at its core is a movement to live in a way that more compassionate with other humans and the natural world.
Farmers will adapt to growing whatever the market needs. If the market becomes more plant based then they'll change. They'll still earn money and get state aid. But we need transparency and accountability as to where our food comes from including all accepted practices within dairy farming. You've failed to explain to me how any of the issues that I've raised are not cruel? (Which is of course what this threads about milk+ dairy =cruelty)
Again another new poster (on this thread) proselytising against farming and farmers and of being a saintly vegan. Well you're in evident company. .
And just like child abuse - abuse of animals is also illegal and should be reported not used as stick to beat eveyone else over the head with who doesn't support your personal lifestyle.
As for this on ethics ...Yours allows for tolerating animal exploitation and cruelty which you're legally entitled to do. I'm also entitled to challenge your ethics and what is socially acceptable. Otherwise we would never have social progress on anything.
Lordy you aint half preaching there eh?
Thats a nope. Incorrect and Wrong. Animal cruelty is illegal and not generally tolerated. Again if you know of such cases report them BUT do try and stupidily use it to villiyfy others.
I could just as easily disingenuously claim - yours allows vegan parents to exploit and treat their children cruelly. And ditto I should be also entitled to challenge your ethics and what is socially acceptable. Otherwise we would never have social progress on anything.
I somehow doubt you have any experience of how cattle behave when in oestrous etc other than what bs you've gleamed from propaganda vegan videos. Otherwise you wouldn't spout the same nonsense as every other anti on here.
And who the fuk is strangling puppies btw or is that simply more hyperemotive bullcrsp?
Vegan lifestyles are responsible for a huge amount of death in the animal world. Something which is handily ignored to declare that vegans are "compassionate". Tell that to the children's starved into brain injury. Or the wild animals killed so you can have exotic foods often produced in countries with few if any environmental controls or 'ethics" about such practises.
Great you think you can simply tell other people what to think. And that my friend is why veganism is often little more than a cult following seeking to vilify others.
It doesn't wash I'm afraid0 -
Go ahead take it down - not just me saying this thread is verging on outright hate and vilification.
I can’t edit the post , I will get onto the mod .Btw I took a look and the video is another load of generalised vegan coblers. I think that fairly well covers it.
Wow , you debunked that video better than the other guy.I see you and your fellow poster are relatively new posters. However I somehow think testimonies on your or my medical issues prove anything on way or the other do they?
I been a member of this site since 2005, getting into debates online is not my thing, FFS I’m sorry I put up the video now.The point on " I don't have time" was whst you said regarding your posting vegan videos which allegedly tell us that's it all a big conspiracy or wtte. But then claiming you didnt have time to discuss same. Seems that's changed eh?
I don’t have the time, so I will get the video taken down , and we will just leave it at that.
Don’t drag me back into a pointless debate that goes nowhere.
Cheers0 -
Again another new poster proselytising against farming and farmers and being a saintly vegan. Well good for you.
And just like child abuse - abuse of animals is also illegal and should be reported not used as stick to beat eveyone else over the head with who doesn't support your personal lifestyle.
As for this on ethics ...
Lordy you aint half preaching there eh?
Thats a nope. Incorrect and Wrong. Animal cruelty is illegal and not generally tolerated. Again if you know of such cases report them BUT do try and stupidily use it to villiyfy others.
I could just as easily disingenuously claim - yours allows vegan parents to exploit and treat their children cruelly. And ditto I should be also entitled to challenge your ethics and what is socially acceptable. Otherwise we would never have social progress on anything.
I somehow doubt you have any experience of how cattle behave when in oestrous etc other than what bs you've gleamed from propaganda vegan videos. Othereise you wouldn't spout the same nonsense as every other anti on here.
And who the fuk is strangling puppies btw or is that simply more hyperemotive bullcrsp?
Vegan lifestyles are responsible for a huge amount death in the animal world. Something which is handily ignored to declare that vegans are "compassionate". Tell that to the children's starved into brain injury. Or the wild animals killed do you can have exotic foods often produced in countries with few if any environmental controls or 'ethics" about such practises.
Great you think you can simply tell other people what to think. And that my friend is why veganism is fact little more than a cult following seeking to vilify others.
It doesn't wash I'm afraid
Again you're routinely segueing away from dairy. Who are all these children that are dying because of veganism? Any that I know of are healthy and thriving. You don't know anything about nutrition otherwise you wouldn't be so ignorant.
You don't have a retort other than telling me that I'm proselytising and being a preachy vegan. That's the standard guff when someone tries to live more ethically.
There's no real difference between a calf and puppy but one is exempt from full animal cruelty legislation while the other is legally protected. Animals farmed for food are governed by different legislation. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's not cruel. You have failed to say how the practice that I've highlighted are not cruel and your reply is to call vegans cultish child abusers. I'm not engaging further as it really is a waste of time. Get out and meet some vegans in the post covid real world instead of basing all your views on earthling ed and social media.0 -
Again you're routinely segueing away from dairy. Who are all these children that are dying because of veganism? Any that I know of are healthy and thriving. You don't know anything about nutrition otherwise you wouldn't be so ignorant. You don't have a retort other than telling me that I'm proselytising and being a preachy vegan. That's the standard guff when someone tries to live more ethically. There's no real difference between a calf and puppy but one is exempt from full animal cruelty legislation while the other is legally protected. Animals farmed for food are governed by different legislation. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's not cruel. You have failed to say how the practice that I've highlighted are not cruel and your reply is to call vegans cultish child abusers. I'm not engaging further as it really is a waste of time. Get out and meet some vegans in the post covid real world instead of basing all your views on earthling ed and social media.
Again reckon you missed the point of the last couple of comments. And no I'm not going to go down a similar route that this thread has by pretending what's being vilified about dairy and farming is somehow the norm btw - it's not. That also holds for the reported stories on babies being fed on vegan diets. That said if you do wish to actually find out about that simply Google news.
Only pointing out which is evident. Much of the previous comment was preaching and an aggressive attack imo. Nothing to do do with your personal take on ethics. Sorry if that does not suit.
And yes there are legal definitions of what constitutes cruelty. And not what you think it means. Some people reckon keeping pets is cruelty but funnily enough that does not fall into any real definition of 'cruelty' either. Neither is farming - no matter how much you wish to paint it that way.
As to the bit highlighted. That's complete and utter bollix. All animals in Ireland fall under the same animal welfare legislation and prohibition on animal cruelty. Look it up if you are in any doubt
As to this "You don't know anything about nutrition otherwise you wouldn't be so ignorant". I'll simply say the exact same thing to you.
As to your suggestion that I should prove or disprove your ideas Lol. Its not up to me to explain that which has no basis in reality.
And btw no I never called vegans "child abusers". Them's your words. I have clearly stated that is an argument similar to what is being pushed by some on this thread about farmers and animals.
Agree on one point - no one should base any of their viewpoints from social media or earthling eds rantings. Whether that's farming or otherwise.
The cult reference relates to attempting to inform others how and what to think using propaganda. And as said that is why veganism comes across often little more than a following seeking to vilify others. Like this thread.0 -
Serendipity99 wrote: »I've been a vegan now for over a year (I was a vegetarian for a few years before that). I wish I'd become a vegan much earlier. I would have if I had known the facts about how milk is produced.
Have a look at this 4-minute video: http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/f/CAMPAIGNS/blog//4//?be_id=284
It shows what is involved in order to get cows to produce milk.
The main points are:
-Calves separated from their mothers at birth, causing severe stress.
-Cows udders are massive (this is totally unnatural).
-Cows suffer from lameness and mastitis as a result .
-Cows are kept pregnant constantly (through artificial insemination) in order to produce milk all year round.
-Cows all end up in the slaughterhouse when they are not deemed 'useful' any longer.
-Male calves (babies, essentially) are slaughtered because they are surplus to requirements.
Do humans have the right to do this to cows?
Are cows pets? Where will we put them all if we drop milking?0 -
Only mammalian young can digest lactose, except a minority of humans who have a genetic mutation which allows them to digest milk.0
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Hilarious.
‘Take down the video’ cries millennial snowflake farmer generation.
The forum being policed by the snowflake farmers as evidenced by all the ‘thanks’ from that post.
Jaysus ‘change’ is the bitterest pill for some folk to swallow.
Enjoy your plant based milk and plant based cheese and plant based sausages folks. You’ll be a long time dead.
I read that Dean Foods, which is America’s largest milk producer, has applied for bankruptcy. Maybe that’s why so many farmers in Ireland are displaying such snowflake sensitivity but you got to respect peoples choice to choose cruelty free foods.
I’m off now for my oat milk flat white.0 -
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The advantage a cow has over a vegan is when she eats her veg she stays the same colour.
But the vegan goes yellow, does a vegan diet change the pigment color?
Most vegans I know look yellow.0
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