Top Iranian Nuclear Scientist Assassinated?

Doctor Roast · 01-12-2020 1:13am

rapul wrote: »

Don't mind him doesn't suit his narrative but you are right no one would help Iran out so they have been stockpiling since

Edit, wow a few scud missiles when Iraq was given the best of the best by Amurica

Seems they don't mind chemical attacks either.... Just depends who's doing them

"Without the international community restraining the Iraqi dictator, Saddam seized the opportunity to use chemical weapons—nerve gas, including mustard and sarin—on Iranian soldiers and civilians. On numerous occasions, Tehran complained to the United Nations about the 1925 Geneva Protocol violations, yet a case couldn’t be built against Baghdad.

The US intelligence community had hard evidence that Saddam was using chemical weapons as early as 1983, but didn’t want to help Tehran. In fact, during 1988, the US provided Saddam’s forces with satellite imagery and maps of Iranian troop movements, worried the war was tipping in Iran’s favor. According to American historian Nikki Keddie, “The United States, knowing it was untrue, also said Iran was partly responsible for chemical warfare attacks on Kurds [in Iraq] and used this story to deflect international condemnation of Iraq.”"

Gatling · 01-12-2020 1:28am

Doctor Roast wrote: »

As a poster you really haven't changed a bit over the years...

No not one bit ,

Throw up your old accounts there saves links

Gatling · 01-12-2020 1:29am

rapul wrote: »

Don't mind him doesn't suit his narrative

Which narrative is this now .

Doctor Roast · 01-12-2020 1:30am

Gatling wrote: »

No not one bit ,

Throw up your old accounts there saves links

Pretty sure you had me on ignore for exposing your lies repeatedly... If you took some of it in and not completely blinded by your bias about what's been pointed out on previous threads you would see why we are were we are in the middle East today

Gatling · 01-12-2020 1:32am

Doctor Roast wrote: »

Pretty sure you had me on ignore

Lol.

in the middle East no sorry

Doctor Roast · 01-12-2020 1:36am

Gatling wrote: »

Lol

Again nothing of substance, you haven't even tried to refute my claim.. Wonder why

You don't have that link I've asked you for about 50 times were you claimed the Kurds invited the US forces into Syria to try cover up its illegal presence there

lol

jmreire · 01-12-2020 1:50am

1874 wrote: »

You'd think they'd be doing a bit more to protect their people,
Like armoured cars, multiple vehicles, ie armour/bullet proofing, no doubt this doesnt protect against bullets indefinitely, just enough to maintain discrete armoured protection.

Id think, even that wouldn't be much use against RPG's unless lucky, and certainly not any kind of IED, or guided missle.
Air attacks bring their own problems, in that the aircraft might be seen visually if not detected by radar, even if stealthy, and they have limits on fuel/range or can only be supported by aircraft that are more obvious and not stealthy.
But so does having people on the ground, they can be captured, interrogated.

He was in an armoured vehicle convoy,,,,,the armoured glass in the windscreen proves that. According to one report, the convoy was stopped when shots were fired, and he got out if the vehicle with hid bodyguard to investigate, and it was then that he got hit, alongside one of his guards who also died. The shots were fired from an automatic weapon mounted on another vehicle about 150 Mtrs away.The fact that a large pool of blood can be seen on the ground, beside the rear door of the vehicle would support this version of events.The vehicle show's no signs of any explosive impact from either RPG's or IED's. He made the cardinal mistake of leaving the protection of the AV. Earlier versions said that there was a fire fight lasting about 3 mins, during which A, all the attackers were killed, along with several members of his protective unit. or B, some were killed, but one or two escaped, and are being hunted. The latest version seems to be blaming it in advanced technology. Time will tell what is the true story. But the story of him leaving his vehicle, and getting shot then is very plausible.

jmreire · 01-12-2020 2:04am

Gatling wrote: »

Yes they did ,but to this day many face execution for little or nothing including political beliefs ,
Go to parts of Iraq and all you will see is images of Ali Khamenei all over buildings similar to how Saddam portrayed himself ,they are essentially marking territory as their own ,yes they claimed to be there to help fight Isis,this will eventually lead to more conflict ,and it's Iranian civilians and Iraqis will suffer again.
Under the guise of the revolution

There has been widespread anger and protest's by Iraqi's against what they see is undue Iranian influence in their Government. The perception is that Iran is trying to control Iraq, and thereby negate any possible challenge to them by Iraq in the region for the future. Its one rising storm against Iran, and another is home grown,,,there is massive growing unrest amongst the Iranian population itself against the Ayatollahs. So far only by massive attacks on protesters have the Ayatollahs managed to stay in power. But at some point in time the dam will break, and then you will see massive changes there.

Gatling · 01-12-2020 2:06am

jmreire wrote: »

. Time will tell what is the true story. But the story of him leaving his vehicle, and getting shot then is very plausible.

They claimed earlier it was 12 man team including snipers who carried out the attack with another 50 + in support Including Iranian opposition forces .

No doubt by lunch time today that story will likely change

Ardillaun · 01-12-2020 2:53am

The Iranians I meet are usually secular or politically apathetic but I doubt they’re a representative sample of the population. If US Whites are 25% evangelical, why would Iran be less crazy? Despite that, the conflict with Israel could change if the regime evolves or collapses. The two nations don’t share a border or a river or centuries of animosity. We saw a glimpse of that diversity of opinion 11 years ago when, in a presidential debate that went way seriously off the rails, the challenger Mousavi criticized Ahmadinejad for threatening Israel. He had previously knocked him for denying the Holocaust. I must say I’d looked forward to visiting Iran some day but that looks less likely now. The people I know who’ve gone say it’s a friendly place for tourists.

rapul · 01-12-2020 9:01am

Gatling wrote: »

They claimed earlier it was 12 man team including snipers who carried out the attack with another 50 + in support Including Iranian opposition forces .

No doubt by lunch time today that story will likely change

Terrible when a country or someone in authority like that Orange man over in America changes a story around... But oh bad Iran

Gatling · 01-12-2020 9:28am

rapul wrote: »

Terrible when a country or someone in authority like that Orange man

It's even worse when everything revolves around murica did this and murica did that .

We know what they did and when they did and the consequences .

Is this a trump discussion no ,
Does Israel need foreign assistance to carry out a hit no they don't they are ruthlessly efficient and capable all by themselves

Ardillaun · 01-12-2020 4:46pm

Gatling wrote: »

It's even worse when everything revolves around murica did this and murica did that .

We know what they did and when they did and the consequences .

Is this a trump discussion no ,
Does Israel need foreign assistance to carry out a hit no they don't they are ruthlessly efficient and capable all by themselves

I’d be very surprised if they didn’t inform the Americans first. And that would involve Trump.

jmreire · 01-12-2020 5:02pm

Ardillaun wrote: »

The Iranians I meet are usually secular or politically apathetic but I doubt they’re a representative sample of the population. If US Whites are 25% evangelical, why would Iran be less crazy? Despite that, the conflict with Israel could change if the regime evolves or collapses. The two nations don’t share a border or a river or centuries of animosity. We saw a glimpse of that diversity of opinion 11 years ago when, in a presidential debate that went way seriously off the rails, the challenger Mousavi criticized Ahmadinejad for threatening Israel. He had previously knocked him for denying the Holocaust. I must say I’d looked forward to visiting Iran some day but that looks less likely now. The people I know who’ve gone say it’s a friendly place for tourists.

Ardilaun, I've lived and worked in Iran, so am a bit familiar with the Country and the people. I've eaten with them ( and drank too, but not in public ) celebrated their family and national events, so have a fair idea what their lives are like. They are amongst the finest people that I've ever had the pleasure to meet on my travels, and I've travelled plenty. But they live under the jack boot of the Ayatollah's, and despite repeated attempts to change the leadership, none have succeeded yet because they have been ruthlessly suppressed. When it comes to assassination, the Ayatollahs are well qualified to talk. I've spoken to Iranians who given the choice would prefer the Reza's back in power, Savak and all. They look at the "Old Days" with fondness....now given what the Shah did to his own people, thats some choice to make. They for sure will not discuss their politics openly with anyone, for good reason. In the privacy of their own homes, maybe yes, if they know you well enough, but outside and with people they don't know??? Forget it, even when abroad. The Ayatollahs have only one aim..complete domination of the entire region....Lebanon, Syria, Iraq. etc. And meanwhile they have a growing nr of well educated people aged between 18-35 with extremely poor life prospects.

Ardillaun · 02-12-2020 2:35am

jmreire wrote: »

But they live under the jack boot of the Ayatollah's, and despite repeated attempts to change the leadership, none have succeeded yet because they have been ruthlessly suppressed. When it comes to assassination, the Ayatollahs are well qualified to talk. I've spoken to Iranians who given the choice would prefer the Reza's back in power, Savak and all. They look at the "Old Days" with fondness....now given what the Shah did to his own people, thats some choice to make. They for sure will not discuss their politics openly with anyone, for good reason. In the privacy of their own homes, maybe yes, if they know you well enough, but outside and with people they don't know??? Forget it, even when abroad.

It is hard to tell from the outside. I think I'm getting the truth as he sees it from my colleague. He invited me to Iran and is ardently secular. He says no young people listen to the mullahs but I see a lot of Iranian hillbillies in traditional garb protesting their loyalty to the regime on TV. If they're faking, they're doing a good job. As in any society, a fair few must fear radical change.

As for being fond of the old days, those days of Iran have nearly all been centralized and authoritarian for over 2,500 years. With that sort of record, you'd have to wonder if this isn't the way their society prefers things, no matter what people say. Given that this isn't exactly a great time for liberal democracy even in the West, aspiring democrats will have a hard time of it over there, especially if their country comes under China's influence. Going from Islamic clerical rule to a Saddam Hussein-style dictatorship may bring progress on the chador front but it will still be grim.

Ardillaun · 02-12-2020 2:47am

According to this article, expertise isn't the bottleneck it used to be in Iran's nuclear program, so the assassination won't have a direct effect on that.

The glaring irony of the sensational operation is that it will probably have a negligible impact on Iran’s nuclear program. “No individual is crucial in a nuclear program like this anymore,” Bruce Riedel, a former senior U.S. official who served in the National Security Council, the C.I.A., and the Pentagon, and who is now at the Brookings Institution, told me. “The Iranians mastered that technology twenty years ago. This guy was important, no question, but he was not crucial to it. Nobody is crucial to it anymore. That’s why describing this as a devastating blow is nonsense.”

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/why-the-assassination-of-a-scientist-will-have-no-impact-on-irans-nuclear-program

KarlMarks · 02-12-2020 3:19am

Every attempt by countries considered enemies of the US and they're allies is now seen as a threat to us. The US bombed Syria, Iraq, Qatar, Sudan and Yemen. Djibouti next. There will be a famine so western troups can be stationed there.

jmreire · 02-12-2020 12:20pm

Ardillaun wrote: »

It is hard to tell from the outside. I think I'm getting the truth as he sees it from my colleague. He invited me to Iran and is ardently secular. He says no young people listen to the mullahs but I see a lot of Iranian hillbillies in traditional garb protesting their loyalty to the regime on TV. If they're faking, they're doing a good job. As in any society, a fair few must fear radical change.

As for being fond of the old days, those days of Iran have nearly all been centralized and authoritarian for over 2,500 years. With that sort of record, you'd have to wonder if this isn't the way their society prefers things, no matter what people say. Given that this isn't exactly a great time for liberal democracy even in the West, aspiring democrats will have a hard time of it over there, especially if their country comes under China's influence. Going from Islamic clerical rule to a Saddam Hussein-style dictatorship may bring progress on the chador front but it will still be grim.

If your Friend invited you to visit, take him up on it if you can. Beautiful Country, beautiful people. And again, if possible travel around it and see as much of it as possible. And as your friend pointed out,the younger group don't pay much attention to the Mullah's, and they have been at the forefront in attempts to overthrow the theocracy. But so far without success..when they speak about the Shah, they really dont want these times back either, they are just making the comparison that as bad as they were then, they are worse now. Google Iranian Fashions in the 60's and 70's.....no different from the west. But the Ayatollah changed all that. Women can and are being jailed for not wearing scarfs or other head covering. The majority of Iranians just want to live normal lives,,,,have a job, reasonable standard of living. They are not stupid and know very well what the Ayatollah did with the flood of cash which followed the lifting of sanctions. It was used to support the Mullah's designs on its Neighbours, with very little filtering down to ordinary Iranians.

nacho libre · 02-12-2020 2:51pm

rockatansky wrote: »

Israel just getting business done before a changing of the guard in the white house.

If this Scientist was as important has to the Iranians he should never have been allowed to be this exposed. The Iranians know too well that Mossad is fully operational within Iran.

.

He was well protected. The message to Iran is if we can get the head of your Nuclear research programme we can get anyone.
Iran will make a lot of noises in public about Israel opening the gates of hell, etc, but i don't think there will be a proportionate response from Iran(assuming they are capable of one) for fear of what the response will be from Israel.
Also I think they are quite keen for a deal to relieve sanctions from the Biden Administration, despite what they say in public, so i think this will factor into their thinking too.

Doctor Roast · 02-12-2020 3:25pm

nacho libre wrote: »

He was well protected. The message to Iran is if we can get the head of your Nuclear research programme we can get anyone.
Iran will make a lot of noises in public about Israel opening the gates of hell, etc, but i don't think there will be a proportionate response from Iran(assuming they are capable of one) for fear of what the response will be from Israel.
Also I think they are quite keen for a deal to relieve sanctions from the Biden Administration, despite what they say in public, so i think this will factor into their thinking too.

They've retaliated to nearly every provocation so far... From seized tankers, to drones in their airspace to assassinations of their top brass... And when they do the west plays the victim

nacho libre · 02-12-2020 4:05pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Normally I might agree with you, but not in the case of Iran. Their reprehensible and disgusting penchant for holding western women hostage means they get no sympathy from me. Uncivilised behaviour deserves no sympathy for payment in kind.

It's curious that no foreigner ever arrested in Iran is spy. I mean no spies ever have a cover job. Though, I agree they should be afforded the same rights as spies captured in America would be treated.

nacho libre · 02-12-2020 4:12pm

Doctor Roast wrote: »

They've retaliated to nearly every provocation so far... From seized tankers, to drones in their airspace to assassinations of their top brass... And when they do the west plays the victim

They are not proportionate responses to the assassination of your top General and now the head of their Nuclear research program, either they can't do it, or choose not to- if it's the latter it contradicts the narrative put forth by Cordell, myfreespirit and others here.

Doctor Roast · 02-12-2020 5:08pm

nacho libre wrote: »

They are not proportionate responses to the assassination of your top General and now the head of their Nuclear research program, either they can't do it, or choose not to- if it's the latter it contradicts the narrative put forth by Cordell, myfreespirit and others here.

If Iran did a quarter of what it's after enduring to any Western nation it would be considered an act of war... For a country that's supposedly the world's no 1 enemy they suffer an awful lot of provocations and I'd bet the farm if they retaliated proportionately the west would be up in arms and full of I told you so's... The truth is they don't want a war with Iran, Iran is no Iraq or Syria militarily and the conflict would quickly snowball out of control across the region

nacho libre · 02-12-2020 5:18pm

Doctor Roast wrote: »

If Iran did a quarter of what it's after enduring to any Western nation it would be considered an act of war... For a country that's supposedly the world's no 1 enemy that suffer an awful lot of provocations

It undermines the propaganda about the mad mullahs. Could it be they are in fact rational actors who value their own survival?

Doctor Roast · 02-12-2020 5:26pm

nacho libre wrote: »

It undermines the propaganda about the mad mullahs. Could it be they are in fact rational actors who value their own survival?

What propaganda? Be more specific so I can see if it justifies assassinations,sanctions, violations of sovereignty and all round bully boy behaviour..

Ardillaun · 02-12-2020 6:17pm

nacho libre wrote: »

, but i don't think there will be a proportionate response from Iran(assuming they are capable of one) for fear of what the response will be from Israel.
Also I think they are quite keen for a deal to relieve sanctions from the Biden Administration, despite what they say in public, so i think this will factor into their thinking too.

Job 1 for the Iranian govt is relief of US sanctions - the tit for tat with Israel is much less important - so the crucial thing for them is to control their own war hawks until Biden gets in. If they can’t make headway with Biden they will have to move closer to China to keep the regime going which is definitely not the preferred option.

jmreire · 02-12-2020 7:37pm

nacho libre wrote: »

It undermines the propaganda about the Presidentthe mad mullahs. Could it be they are in fact rational actors who value their own survival?

Like all dictatorial ( and especially religious ones) states, their own personal survival is numero uno and Iran is no exception.... if it was otherwise, they would have been replaced a long time ago by a more democratic system. In the widespread protests which took place in November 2019, ( which were triggered by an increase in fuel prices of 50%, and the imposition of a rationing system. The increase was supposedly to give more to the poor.) The death toll was in excess of 1'000. The Nrs vary from between 800 and 1'500 unarmed protesters shot dead on the orders of the President.

nacho libre · 02-12-2020 9:52pm

jmreire wrote: »

Like all dictatorial Presidentthe ( and especially religious ones) states, their own personal survival is numero uno and Iran is no exception.... if it was otherwise,

Yes. If it was otherwise they'd have gone to war with Israel and the Great Satan, and got the Martyrdom they so crave because they are Mad Mullahs, afterall.

Cheerful Spring2 · 02-12-2020 11:48pm

nacho libre wrote: »

They are not proportionate responses to the assassination of your top General and now the head of their Nuclear research program, either they can't do it, or choose not to- if it's the latter it contradicts the narrative put forth by Cordell, myfreespirit and others here.

With Trump's threats to destroy culture sites inside Iran, the fact the fired mutiple ballistic missiles at a US/ Iraqi military base they did take the step many people predicted would not happen

Trump accepted material US losses here. Trump. backed off, not Iran remember his speeches . Iran was prepared to go to war and had no-way of knowing what Trump reaction would be to ballistic missiles landing and exploding inside the US operated base that night!

Trump has lost the election and Biden likely to be more accepting of Iran. If Iran going to down something reactionary, it'll be before Jan. It's doubtful they will strike out with Biden as president it will sour any future nuclear deal talks.

Iran knows a strike carries a real chance of war breaking out. Trump has nothing to lose now he's not got his extra 4 years. Netanyahu is desperate and would drag Israel into a new war, if Iran strikes them. The scientist one man is he worth going to war over?

jmreire · 02-12-2020 11:59pm

nacho libre wrote: »

Yes. If it was otherwise they'd have gone to war with Israel and the Great Satan, and got the Martyrdom they so crave because they are Mad Mullahs, afterall.

Quite incredible though it may seem, the ones who organise the suicide vest, and its wearer, show a remarkable lack of eagerness in achieving martyrdom and by definition Heaven themselves, despite extolling all of its benefits to the part Faithfull..:rolleyes:

03-12-2020 12:07am

nacho libre wrote: »

They are not proportionate responses to the assassination of your top General and now the head of their Nuclear research program, either they can't do it, or choose not to- if it's the latter it contradicts the narrative put forth by Cordell, myfreespirit and others here.

This wasn't a small response.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Martyr_Soleimani

The American response to it was though. I think Trump just didn't want a war.

03-12-2020 12:08am

jmreire wrote: »

Quite incredible though it may seem, the ones who organise the suicide vest, and its wearer, show a remarkable lack of eagerness in achieving martyrdom and by definition Heaven themselves, despite extolling all of its benefits to the part Faithfull..:rolleyes:

You will need to put that in English.

jmreire · 03-12-2020 1:25am

Deleted User wrote: »

You will need to put that in English.

Its a bit sarcastic all right. :rolleyes:...Basically it means, "Dont do what I do, do what I tell you to do". In Jihad, Muslims are taught that Martyrdom is the quickest and surest way to Paradise. So it would be logical to assume that the very same people who preach this, would be first in line to take advantage of it. But no, they seem to prefer to suffer on in this life while encouraging others along the path of Martyrdom :cool:

Gatling · 03-12-2020 2:11am

jmreire wrote: »

Its a bit sarcastic all right. :rolleyes:...Basically it means, "Do what I tell you to do, not what I do". In Jihad, Muslims are taught that Martyrdom is the quickest and surest way to Paradise. So it would be logical to assume that the very same people who preach this, would be first in line to take advantage of it. But no, they seem to prefer to suffer on in this life while encouraging others along the path of Martyrdom :cool:

Do you ever notice on these type of threads how these Arab countries need tin pot dictatorships to keep them under control , crying about Western democracies while living and posting from Western democracy.

On your other point it's always the same my followers god willed it , please volunteer your self for jihad or a suicide mission and you will be awarded with your 72 Virgins .
But never them , always some poor sod or a scared child forced to do a Mulla's bidding

the purple tin · 03-12-2020 11:42am

jmreire wrote: »

Its a bit sarcastic all right. :rolleyes:...Basically it means, "Dont do what I do, do what I tell you to do". In Jihad, Muslims are taught that Martyrdom is the quickest and surest way to Paradise. So it would be logical to assume that the very same people who preach this, would be first in line to take advantage of it. But no, they seem to prefer to suffer on in this life while encouraging others along the path of Martyrdom :cool:

A bit like Catholiscism. Money is the root of all evil, it will be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven etc, etc.
Yet the Vatican has God knows how many billions squirrelled away and tons of gold and priceless artworks hoarded in the basement.

ElJeffe · 03-12-2020 11:46am

nacho libre wrote: »

He was well protected. The message to Iran is if we can get the head of your Nuclear research programme we can get anyone.
Iran will make a lot of noises in public about Israel opening the gates of hell, etc, but i don't think there will be a proportionate response from Iran(assuming they are capable of one) for fear of what the response will be from Israel.
Also I think they are quite keen for a deal to relieve sanctions from the Biden Administration, despite what they say in public, so i think this will factor into their thinking too.

Iran will do what they always do, bitch and moan and get the head hackers to do their dirty work. They know their place and it's well well below Israels level.

rapul · 03-12-2020 2:44pm

ElJeffe wrote: »

Iran will do what they always do, bitch and moan and get the head hackers to do their dirty work. They know their place and it's well well below Israels level.

Wow extremely uneducated post
Great contribution of shoit!

jmreire · 03-12-2020 4:10pm

the purple tin wrote: »

A bit like Catholiscism. Money is the root of all evil, it will be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven etc, etc.
Yet the Vatican has God knows how many billions squirrelled away and tons of gold and priceless artworks hoarded in the basement.

Yes but you forgot to add that Jesus also said that through him, all things are possible,including the rich entering heaven. And do you think that what he said about money being the root of all evil has any merit ? Why do you think that we have so many wars going on at the present time? And they all have one thing in common,,,corruption. Sure the Vatican has lots of priceless art etc. Same as any other state. Would you like to know what the personal fortunes of the Ayatollah ( and his Government ) is worth? Saddam Hussein? Gaddafi? Money hidden deep in the swiss underground vaults, owned by who? et al. Down through the century's , the Vatican has safe guarded these works of art and they can be viewed by anyone, and not hidden away in a private collection, far from the public eye. Like any other state, it costs money to run, and support it's work world wide, so yes it has its own banking system. And its all perfectly legal and above board.

Odhinn · 03-12-2020 4:38pm

jmreire wrote: »

Yes but you forgot to add that Jesus also said that through him, all things are possible,including the rich entering heaven. And do you think that what he said about money being the root of all evil has any merit ? Why do you think that we have so many wars going on at the present time? And they all have one thing in common,,,corruption. Sure the Vatican has lots of priceless art etc. Same as any other state. Would you like to know what the personal fortunes of the Ayatollah ( and his Government ) is worth? Saddam Hussein? Gaddafi? Money hidden deep in the swiss underground vaults, owned by who? et al. Down through the century's , the Vatican has safe guarded these works of art and they can be viewed by anyone, and not hidden away in a private collection, far from the public eye. Like any other state, it costs money to run, and support it's work world wide, so yes it has its own banking system. And its all perfectly legal and above board.

*cough

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_the_Works_of_Religion

Donald Trump · 03-12-2020 5:44pm

the purple tin wrote: »

A bit like Catholiscism. Money is the root of all evil, it will be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven etc, etc.
Yet the Vatican has God knows how many billions squirrelled away and tons of gold and priceless artworks hoarded in the basement.

It is not the possession of valuables that is the root of a lot of bad things, but the things that are done in order to acquire it for to increase wealth and have more money for spending.

For example, if some old archaeological chalice had been dug up in Ireland 100 years ago and was in private possession and came to auction now and the state spend a few million buying it for safekeeping then that is not in itself a bad thing.

If there is a historical painting worth 100m then I'd far rather that the Vatican owned it than Mark Zuckerberg or Vladimir Putin.

I don't understand people's lack of imagination when they have the default go-to of just making some remark about Catholicism. They must delude themselves into thinking it makes them sound smart.

nacho libre · 03-12-2020 6:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

This wasn't a small response.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Martyr_Soleimani

The American response to it was though. I think Trump just didn't want a war.

It was hardly like for like though. A base got damaged and no one was killed. Iran got to save face by claiming they exacted a heavy price for the general's murder, and Trump avoided going to war. It suited both sides to leave it at that.

This time the equation is different, the petulant child in the Oval Office might be keen to go to war and leave the incoming administration with the mess. It will be hard for the moderates in Iran to hold sway after this latest murder, but as I have mentioned previously the hardliners, despite all their religious rhetoric , value their own lives too much to seek martyrdom, so they will also be keen to avoid any action that risks war.

Gatling · 03-12-2020 6:23pm

nacho libre wrote: »

It was hardly like for like though. A base got damaged and no one was killed. Iran got to save face by claiming they exacted a heavy price for the general's murder, and Trump avoided going to war. It suited both sides to leave it at that.

What's your opinion on the idea that the missile strike on an unprotected shared base was negotiated and agreed this would happen .

jmreire · 03-12-2020 7:38pm

Odhinn wrote: »

*cough

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_the_Works_of_Religion

So there you have it, courtesy of Wikipedia, the complete details of how the Catholic Church financial affairs are managed,Warts and all.

the purple tin · 03-12-2020 8:59pm

jmreire wrote: »

Yes but you forgot to add that Jesus also said that through him, all things are possible,including the rich entering heaven. And do you think that what he said about money being the root of all evil has any merit ? Why do you think that we have so many wars going on at the present time? And they all have one thing in common,,,corruption. Sure the Vatican has lots of priceless art etc. Same as any other state. Would you like to know what the personal fortunes of the Ayatollah ( and his Government ) is worth? Saddam Hussein? Gaddafi? Money hidden deep in the swiss underground vaults, owned by who? et al. Down through the century's , the Vatican has safe guarded these works of art and they can be viewed by anyone, and not hidden away in a private collection, far from the public eye. Like any other state, it costs money to run, and support it's work world wide, so yes it has its own banking system. And its all perfectly legal and above board.

Laundering money for the Mafia. Oh yeah perfectly legal and above board, nothing to see here :rolleyes:

jmreire · 03-12-2020 9:43pm

the purple tin wrote: »

[/B]

Laundering money for the Mafia. Oh yeah perfectly legal and above board, nothing to see here :rolleyes:

And that's something that no other bank in the world does??? All perfectly legal and above board??? There's an earlier comment from you purple tin, about money being the root of all evil, and thats the truest statement ever... where there's money, there's corruption, and that means literally everywhere, even the Vatican. And as for recent Irish Banking history,,,,,,No Comment.:cool:

Gatling · 03-12-2020 11:55pm

jmreire wrote: »

And that's something that no other bank in the world does??? All perfectly legal and above board??? There's an earlier comment from you purple tin, about money being the root of all evil, and thats the truest statement ever... where there's money, there's corruption, and that means literally everywhere, even the Vatican. And as for recent Irish Banking history,,,,,,No Comment.:cool:

The word is creative accounting ,there was a recent news story about a company here made a 100+ million profit and paid zero tax because they claimed to operated at a -€400 loss .
The best accounts in the world command astronomical salaries because they both count peoples money's and find sneaky loop holes to write off taxes

Donald Trump · 04-12-2020 1:25pm

Gatling wrote: »

The word is creative accounting ,there was a recent news story about a company here made a 100+ million profit and paid zero tax because they claimed to operated at a -€400 loss .
The best accounts in the world command astronomical salaries because they both count peoples money's and find sneaky loop holes to write off taxes

You post uses "creative accounting" in the counting of the words :P

nacho libre · 04-12-2020 1:48pm

Gatling wrote: »

What's your opinion on the idea that the missile strike on an unprotected shared base was negotiated and agreed this would happen .

It will be dismissed as absurd, but I think that's exactly what happened. A deal was done in private to de-escalate the situation. As a former head of Mossad said what we have in private is not always what we have in public. In others words enemies can come to an arrangement which suits both sides. Saudia Arabia and Israel have been doing this for years

jmreire · 04-12-2020 2:38pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

It is not the possession of valuables that is the root of a lot of bad things, but the things that are done in order to acquire it for to increase wealth and have more money for spending.

For example, if some old archaeological chalice had been dug up in Ireland 100 years ago and was in private possession and came to auction now and the state spend a few million buying it for safekeeping then that is not in itself a bad thing.

If there is a historical painting worth 100m then I'd far rather that the Vatican owned it than Mark Zuckerberg or Vladimir Putin.

I don't understand people's lack of imagination when they have the default go-to of just making some remark about Catholicism. They must delude themselves into thinking it makes them sound smart.

Exactly !!! Its just an anti Catholic / Christian post. And its a very safe target to attack. Does not even attempt hide it by comparing other banking institutions, and much richer ones than the Vatican.

Cheerful Spring2 · 04-12-2020 3:03pm

nacho libre wrote: »

It will be dismissed as absurd, but I think that's exactly what happened. A deal was done in private to de-escalate the situation. As a former head of Mossad said what we have in private is not always what we have in public. In others words enemies can come to an arrangement which suits both sides. Saudia Arabia and Israel have been doing this for years

That makes little sense when you think back. Trump speeches before the Iranian strike remember. The US had advanced intelligence, they would have pulled out the US soldiers at the base. It’s large spread out base and lot of area to target. Iran went after individual targets. I watched their military briefing and was outlined why they hit the base.

Trump also denied anything all happened to US soldiers remember. It took weeks and weeks for the Pentagon, to say 134 US soldiers suffered brain trauma and blast shock. The base obviously got an early warning the missiles were incoming, and they entered the hardened bunkers on site at the base. There was not enough time for them to clear the base.

Iran had no agreement here. Iran was not targeting the soldiers bunkers that night, if a missile went astray landed on it, there likely be some deaths, but that's what if!

I would emphasize Iran strikes were calculated, in a way to avoid big US soldier deaths I agree there. Iran of course does not want a war with the US, that's madness, and the strikes were not meant for that..

Iran still had no way of knowing Trump response would be to this attack. Iran in my view here gambled, but was fully prepared for round 2 and 3 and what came next that night. When Trump revenge did not materialize, they paused and stopped and that was that. Plus the Ukraine aircraft shootdown probably stopped a second wave of attacks, who can say?

Top Iranian Nuclear Scientist Assassinated?

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