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Top Iranian Nuclear Scientist Assassinated?

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    #242
    Doctor Roast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Doctor Roast


    rapul wrote: »
    Iran would be doing just fine without interference from the US of A, ousting a democratically elected president and funding Iraqs bombardment of Iran in the 80s

    And to be fair America use fear aswell just its ok for them no matter what, just like Israel can assassinate people in there own country.

    But Iran is bad.

    And not a single country would give Iran missiles to protect themselves in the Iraq war... So they start making their own... And lots of them


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    #243
    Doctor Roast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Doctor Roast


    Gatling wrote: »
    Yes they did ,but to this day many face execution for little or nothing including political beliefs ,
    Go to parts of Iraq and all you will see is images of Ali Khamenei all over buildings similar to how Saddam portrayed himself ,they are essentially marking territory as their own ,yes they claimed to be there to help fight Isis,this will eventually lead to more conflict ,and it's Iranian civilians and Iraqis will suffer again.
    Under the guise of the revolution

    The middle East hasn't faired too well under the guise of US style democracy...


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    #244
    the purple tin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,943 ✭✭✭✭the purple tin


    KarlMarks wrote: »
    The US and their Israeli lapdogs love nothing more than political and economic instability in the Middle East and Iran. Robert Fisk explained it better than anyone in his writings.
    I think that's the wrong way round. US is Israel's lap dog (attack dog more like it).
    Look at all the Middle Eastern countries that US has invaded or bombed in the last 20 or 30 years. None of them were a threat to the US but they were to Israel.
    Also look at the Neocons from GW Bush's administration. I think something like 40 or 50 of them had joint Israeli/American citizenship.


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    #245
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    the purple tin wrote: »
    Look at all the Middle Eastern countries that US has invaded or bombed in the last 20 or 30 years.

    How many ?
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #246
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Doctor Roast wrote: »
    And not a single country would give Iran missiles to protect themselves in the Iraq war... So they start making their own... And lots of them

    Not true ,
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #247
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Doctor Roast wrote: »
    And not a single country would give Iran missiles to protect themselves in the Iraq war... So they start making their own... And lots of them

    According to this amazing list, a lot of countries got in on both sides of the act. Who knew the Portuguese were so devious (citation needed)?:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_aid_to_combatants_in_the_Iran–Iraq_War

    It became a fight for national survival. As in the Soviet Union during WWII, some people who hated the regime fought on for their country. And some didn’t. I know a guy who left the Iraqi army ‘prematurely’ and fled to Iran where he was arrested and interrogated as a spy. He said the scariest moment was actually being smuggled across the border because he knew the outfits involved regularly killed their customers.


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    #248
    Doctor Roast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Doctor Roast


    Gatling wrote: »
    Not true ,

    As a poster you really haven't changed a bit over the years... I'd post the link to this article but it's a new account so boards won't let me....

    "The need to deter Iraq was a primary impetus behind Iran's decision to acquire ballistic missiles. The regime hoped that missile strikes on enemy towns and cities would compel its adversary to halt its targeting of civilians. The difficulties that Iran encountered in obtaining missiles, prompted it to focuse its efforts on building an independent capacity to design and produce missiles. Thus, Iran's wartime experience played a crucial role in shaping its initial perceptions of the utility of missiles in conventional warfare."

    Article: Ballistic Missiles in Iran's Military Thinking


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    #249
    rapul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭rapul


    Don't mind him doesn't suit his narrative but you are right no one would help Iran out so they have been stockpiling since

    Edit, wow a few scud missiles when Iraq was given the best of the best by Amurica


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    #250
    Doctor Roast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Doctor Roast


    Gatling wrote: »
    Not true ,

    "The wartime isolation Tehran experienced during that period served as a lesson on the importance of self-reliance, to the point that it worked tirelessly to increase its military capabilities over the past thirty years in order defend its territory and its people. Iran views itself as continuously under threat, especially from the United States and its allies, which has created a siege mentality among the governing elite. Over the span of seven US administrations, Tehran has faced threats of sanctions, war, and regime change.

    The Iran-Iraq War is frequently cited by Iranian government officials as the foundational basis of Tehran’s foreign policy today. In an op-ed for the Washington Post, Iranian foreign minister Mohammad Javad Zarif argued that the lack of defense during the eight-year conflict drives their current ballistic missile program: “It is against this backdrop that we develop and test our indigenous defensive capabilities. We have no other choice, as we continue to face major hurdles in fulfilling our military hardware needs from abroad, even as our neighbors procure such hardware in mind-boggling quantities.”


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    #251
    Doctor Roast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Doctor Roast


    rapul wrote: »
    Don't mind him doesn't suit his narrative but you are right no one would help Iran out so they have been stockpiling since

    I don't, he's been caught out so many times by myself and many others in the past..


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    #252
    Doctor Roast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Doctor Roast


    rapul wrote: »
    Don't mind him doesn't suit his narrative but you are right no one would help Iran out so they have been stockpiling since

    Edit, wow a few scud missiles when Iraq was given the best of the best by Amurica

    Seems they don't mind chemical attacks either.... Just depends who's doing them

    "Without the international community restraining the Iraqi dictator, Saddam seized the opportunity to use chemical weapons—nerve gas, including mustard and sarin—on Iranian soldiers and civilians. On numerous occasions, Tehran complained to the United Nations about the 1925 Geneva Protocol violations, yet a case couldn’t be built against Baghdad.

    The US intelligence community had hard evidence that Saddam was using chemical weapons as early as 1983, but didn’t want to help Tehran. In fact, during 1988, the US provided Saddam’s forces with satellite imagery and maps of Iranian troop movements, worried the war was tipping in Iran’s favor. According to American historian Nikki Keddie, “The United States, knowing it was untrue, also said Iran was partly responsible for chemical warfare attacks on Kurds [in Iraq] and used this story to deflect international condemnation of Iraq.”"


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    #253
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Doctor Roast wrote: »
    As a poster you really haven't changed a bit over the years...

    No not one bit ,

    Throw up your old accounts there saves links
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #254
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    rapul wrote: »
    Don't mind him doesn't suit his narrative

    Which narrative is this now .
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #255
    Doctor Roast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Doctor Roast


    Gatling wrote: »
    No not one bit ,

    Throw up your old accounts there saves links

    Pretty sure you had me on ignore for exposing your lies repeatedly... If you took some of it in and not completely blinded by your bias about what's been pointed out on previous threads you would see why we are were we are in the middle East today


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    #256
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Doctor Roast wrote: »
    Pretty sure you had me on ignore

    Lol.

    in the middle East no sorry
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #257
    Doctor Roast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Doctor Roast


    Gatling wrote: »
    Lol

    Again nothing of substance, you haven't even tried to refute my claim.. Wonder why

    You don't have that link I've asked you for about 50 times were you claimed the Kurds invited the US forces into Syria to try cover up its illegal presence there ;) lol


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    #258
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,328 ✭✭✭jmreire


    1874 wrote: »
    You'd think they'd be doing a bit more to protect their people,
    Like armoured cars, multiple vehicles, ie armour/bullet proofing, no doubt this doesnt protect against bullets indefinitely, just enough to maintain discrete armoured protection.

    Id think, even that wouldn't be much use against RPG's unless lucky, and certainly not any kind of IED, or guided missle.
    Air attacks bring their own problems, in that the aircraft might be seen visually if not detected by radar, even if stealthy, and they have limits on fuel/range or can only be supported by aircraft that are more obvious and not stealthy.
    But so does having people on the ground, they can be captured, interrogated.

    He was in an armoured vehicle convoy,,,,,the armoured glass in the windscreen proves that. According to one report, the convoy was stopped when shots were fired, and he got out if the vehicle with hid bodyguard to investigate, and it was then that he got hit, alongside one of his guards who also died. The shots were fired from an automatic weapon mounted on another vehicle about 150 Mtrs away.The fact that a large pool of blood can be seen on the ground, beside the rear door of the vehicle would support this version of events.The vehicle show's no signs of any explosive impact from either RPG's or IED's. He made the cardinal mistake of leaving the protection of the AV. Earlier versions said that there was a fire fight lasting about 3 mins, during which A, all the attackers were killed, along with several members of his protective unit. or B, some were killed, but one or two escaped, and are being hunted. The latest version seems to be blaming it in advanced technology. Time will tell what is the true story. But the story of him leaving his vehicle, and getting shot then is very plausible.


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    #259
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,328 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Gatling wrote: »
    Yes they did ,but to this day many face execution for little or nothing including political beliefs ,
    Go to parts of Iraq and all you will see is images of Ali Khamenei all over buildings similar to how Saddam portrayed himself ,they are essentially marking territory as their own ,yes they claimed to be there to help fight Isis,this will eventually lead to more conflict ,and it's Iranian civilians and Iraqis will suffer again.
    Under the guise of the revolution

    There has been widespread anger and protest's by Iraqi's against what they see is undue Iranian influence in their Government. The perception is that Iran is trying to control Iraq, and thereby negate any possible challenge to them by Iraq in the region for the future. Its one rising storm against Iran, and another is home grown,,,there is massive growing unrest amongst the Iranian population itself against the Ayatollahs. So far only by massive attacks on protesters have the Ayatollahs managed to stay in power. But at some point in time the dam will break, and then you will see massive changes there.


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    #260
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    jmreire wrote: »
    . Time will tell what is the true story. But the story of him leaving his vehicle, and getting shot then is very plausible.

    They claimed earlier it was 12 man team including snipers who carried out the attack with another 50 + in support Including Iranian opposition forces .

    No doubt by lunch time today that story will likely change
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #261
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    The Iranians I meet are usually secular or politically apathetic but I doubt they’re a representative sample of the population. If US Whites are 25% evangelical, why would Iran be less crazy? Despite that, the conflict with Israel could change if the regime evolves or collapses. The two nations don’t share a border or a river or centuries of animosity. We saw a glimpse of that diversity of opinion 11 years ago when, in a presidential debate that went way seriously off the rails, the challenger Mousavi criticized Ahmadinejad for threatening Israel. He had previously knocked him for denying the Holocaust. I must say I’d looked forward to visiting Iran some day but that looks less likely now. The people I know who’ve gone say it’s a friendly place for tourists.


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    #262
    rapul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭rapul


    Gatling wrote: »
    They claimed earlier it was 12 man team including snipers who carried out the attack with another 50 + in support Including Iranian opposition forces .

    No doubt by lunch time today that story will likely change

    Terrible when a country or someone in authority like that Orange man over in America changes a story around... But oh bad Iran


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    #263
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    rapul wrote: »
    Terrible when a country or someone in authority like that Orange man

    It's even worse when everything revolves around murica did this and murica did that .

    We know what they did and when they did and the consequences .

    Is this a trump discussion no ,
    Does Israel need foreign assistance to carry out a hit no they don't they are ruthlessly efficient and capable all by themselves
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #264
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Gatling wrote: »
    It's even worse when everything revolves around murica did this and murica did that .

    We know what they did and when they did and the consequences .

    Is this a trump discussion no ,
    Does Israel need foreign assistance to carry out a hit no they don't they are ruthlessly efficient and capable all by themselves

    I’d be very surprised if they didn’t inform the Americans first. And that would involve Trump.


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    #265
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,328 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Ardillaun wrote: »
    The Iranians I meet are usually secular or politically apathetic but I doubt they’re a representative sample of the population. If US Whites are 25% evangelical, why would Iran be less crazy? Despite that, the conflict with Israel could change if the regime evolves or collapses. The two nations don’t share a border or a river or centuries of animosity. We saw a glimpse of that diversity of opinion 11 years ago when, in a presidential debate that went way seriously off the rails, the challenger Mousavi criticized Ahmadinejad for threatening Israel. He had previously knocked him for denying the Holocaust. I must say I’d looked forward to visiting Iran some day but that looks less likely now. The people I know who’ve gone say it’s a friendly place for tourists.

    Ardilaun, I've lived and worked in Iran, so am a bit familiar with the Country and the people. I've eaten with them ( and drank too, but not in public ) celebrated their family and national events, so have a fair idea what their lives are like. They are amongst the finest people that I've ever had the pleasure to meet on my travels, and I've travelled plenty. But they live under the jack boot of the Ayatollah's, and despite repeated attempts to change the leadership, none have succeeded yet because they have been ruthlessly suppressed. When it comes to assassination, the Ayatollahs are well qualified to talk. I've spoken to Iranians who given the choice would prefer the Reza's back in power, Savak and all. They look at the "Old Days" with fondness....now given what the Shah did to his own people, thats some choice to make. They for sure will not discuss their politics openly with anyone, for good reason. In the privacy of their own homes, maybe yes, if they know you well enough, but outside and with people they don't know??? Forget it, even when abroad. The Ayatollahs have only one aim..complete domination of the entire region....Lebanon, Syria, Iraq. etc. And meanwhile they have a growing nr of well educated people aged between 18-35 with extremely poor life prospects.


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    #266
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    jmreire wrote: »
    But they live under the jack boot of the Ayatollah's, and despite repeated attempts to change the leadership, none have succeeded yet because they have been ruthlessly suppressed. When it comes to assassination, the Ayatollahs are well qualified to talk. I've spoken to Iranians who given the choice would prefer the Reza's back in power, Savak and all. They look at the "Old Days" with fondness....now given what the Shah did to his own people, thats some choice to make. They for sure will not discuss their politics openly with anyone, for good reason. In the privacy of their own homes, maybe yes, if they know you well enough, but outside and with people they don't know??? Forget it, even when abroad.

    It is hard to tell from the outside. I think I'm getting the truth as he sees it from my colleague. He invited me to Iran and is ardently secular. He says no young people listen to the mullahs but I see a lot of Iranian hillbillies in traditional garb protesting their loyalty to the regime on TV. If they're faking, they're doing a good job. As in any society, a fair few must fear radical change.

    As for being fond of the old days, those days of Iran have nearly all been centralized and authoritarian for over 2,500 years. With that sort of record, you'd have to wonder if this isn't the way their society prefers things, no matter what people say. Given that this isn't exactly a great time for liberal democracy even in the West, aspiring democrats will have a hard time of it over there, especially if their country comes under China's influence. Going from Islamic clerical rule to a Saddam Hussein-style dictatorship may bring progress on the chador front but it will still be grim.


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    #267
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    According to this article, expertise isn't the bottleneck it used to be in Iran's nuclear program, so the assassination won't have a direct effect on that.
    The glaring irony of the sensational operation is that it will probably have a negligible impact on Iran’s nuclear program. “No individual is crucial in a nuclear program like this anymore,” Bruce Riedel, a former senior U.S. official who served in the National Security Council, the C.I.A., and the Pentagon, and who is now at the Brookings Institution, told me. “The Iranians mastered that technology twenty years ago. This guy was important, no question, but he was not crucial to it. Nobody is crucial to it anymore. That’s why describing this as a devastating blow is nonsense.”

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/why-the-assassination-of-a-scientist-will-have-no-impact-on-irans-nuclear-program


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    #268
    KarlMarks
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭KarlMarks


    Every attempt by countries considered enemies of the US and they're allies is now seen as a threat to us. The US bombed Syria, Iraq, Qatar, Sudan and Yemen. Djibouti next. There will be a famine so western troups can be stationed there.


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    #269
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,328 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Ardillaun wrote: »
    It is hard to tell from the outside. I think I'm getting the truth as he sees it from my colleague. He invited me to Iran and is ardently secular. He says no young people listen to the mullahs but I see a lot of Iranian hillbillies in traditional garb protesting their loyalty to the regime on TV. If they're faking, they're doing a good job. As in any society, a fair few must fear radical change.

    As for being fond of the old days, those days of Iran have nearly all been centralized and authoritarian for over 2,500 years. With that sort of record, you'd have to wonder if this isn't the way their society prefers things, no matter what people say. Given that this isn't exactly a great time for liberal democracy even in the West, aspiring democrats will have a hard time of it over there, especially if their country comes under China's influence. Going from Islamic clerical rule to a Saddam Hussein-style dictatorship may bring progress on the chador front but it will still be grim.

    If your Friend invited you to visit, take him up on it if you can. Beautiful Country, beautiful people. And again, if possible travel around it and see as much of it as possible. And as your friend pointed out,the younger group don't pay much attention to the Mullah's, and they have been at the forefront in attempts to overthrow the theocracy. But so far without success..when they speak about the Shah, they really dont want these times back either, they are just making the comparison that as bad as they were then, they are worse now. Google Iranian Fashions in the 60's and 70's.....no different from the west. But the Ayatollah changed all that. Women can and are being jailed for not wearing scarfs or other head covering. The majority of Iranians just want to live normal lives,,,,have a job, reasonable standard of living. They are not stupid and know very well what the Ayatollah did with the flood of cash which followed the lifting of sanctions. It was used to support the Mullah's designs on its Neighbours, with very little filtering down to ordinary Iranians.


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    #270
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,660 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    rockatansky wrote: »
    Israel just getting business done before a changing of the guard in the white house.

    If this Scientist was as important has to the Iranians he should never have been allowed to be this exposed. The Iranians know too well that Mossad is fully operational within Iran.

    .

    He was well protected. The message to Iran is if we can get the head of your Nuclear research programme we can get anyone.
    Iran will make a lot of noises in public about Israel opening the gates of hell, etc, but i don't think there will be a proportionate response from Iran(assuming they are capable of one) for fear of what the response will be from Israel.
    Also I think they are quite keen for a deal to relieve sanctions from the Biden Administration, despite what they say in public, so i think this will factor into their thinking too.


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    #271
    Doctor Roast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Doctor Roast


    nacho libre wrote: »
    He was well protected. The message to Iran is if we can get the head of your Nuclear research programme we can get anyone.
    Iran will make a lot of noises in public about Israel opening the gates of hell, etc, but i don't think there will be a proportionate response from Iran(assuming they are capable of one) for fear of what the response will be from Israel.
    Also I think they are quite keen for a deal to relieve sanctions from the Biden Administration, despite what they say in public, so i think this will factor into their thinking too.

    They've retaliated to nearly every provocation so far... From seized tankers, to drones in their airspace to assassinations of their top brass... And when they do the west plays the victim


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