Why don't men approach women?

Eve_Dublin · 17-05-2009 2:41pm

You can get email notifications?? Aww I'm a little bit flattered that even though it's "not about me" or you "don't care", you still choose to respond t me. Does your girlfriend know about this?

NickNolte · 17-05-2009 2:43pm

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

You can get email notifications?? Aww I'm a little bit flattered that even though it's "not about me" or you "don't care", you still choose to respond t me. Does your girlfriend know about this?

She does. She's comfortable with it. We have an open relationship. You should come over for 'coffee' sometime and meet us.

Eve_Dublin · 17-05-2009 2:58pm

Lovely. That's good to hear. Hope you're feeling better soon anyhow. One of my faults and I can see it might be one of yours too is I have to get the last word in on a ehhhhh...."debate". I think it comes to a point where you're not going to convince the other person otherwise or the other person is not willing for their opinions to be altered and that's fine.

You're not a Taurus by any chance are you?

Perhaps you're right. Who knows. You have a different perspective than me being a man. Female relationships are a different kettle of fish altogether...much more complexed and as I said before, often men are blind to what goes on behind their backs among women. I can really only talk about my observations and like you say, it's not an opinion. This is not denial. Maybe I'm lucky to be surrounded by great Irish women and I always have been, home and and abroad. Like attracts alike...I truely believe that. It makes perfect sense. I can spot a wagon a mile off and avoid them like the plague and it's worked for me so far. Happy days.

However and I'll be honest, I've only been back in Ireland for the past 2 months after 4 years away...maybe i'm not in a position to comment. I loved meeting Irish girls abroad...and I know even before you say it that you won't agree with this but Irish women are better craic than a lot of other nationalities in my opinion. Most foreign men I met agreed with me.

And another point and a point I made in a previous post...people who travel tend to be more open-minded...the Irish I met abroad and perhaps your girlfriend....and myself. I used to make sweeping generalisation like you do, Nick but that was before I left the country and realised that you really have to take people as they come. Diichheeads have no nation. I always thought the "auld biddy 84 year-old trapped in a 22 year olds body" existed exclusively in Ireland. How wrong I was. I'll give you an example: I went into a shop one time in Argentina and was buying some bits and pieces and pronounced a word incorrectly because my Spanish was a bit rusty. All the YOUNG (in their 20s) women in the shop started to snigger behind their hands at me as if I'd said just asked them for a pound of poo. Pure b***y.I told my Argentinian friend what had happened and he said it was the typical attitude of the average women in this city.

Another time I was chatting to a guy from Peru about the American elections in a hostel one afternoon...no flirting whatsoever going on and 2 hours later, his local girlfriend storms in and calls me a B***h for TALKING to her boyfriend. She spent the whole day throwing me dagger eyes and when I confronted her, she told me her byfriend "promised to never talk to another girl again".

I came across dagger eyes all over the place....I didn't deserve it...I found alot of foreign couldn't understand that I was just being friendly. I'm not a natural flirt so i'm not sure where they got this impression. Pure small-mindedness that you find the world over.

These are just a few examples..I could go on and on. These types of women are everywhere.

AARRRGH · 17-05-2009 5:06pm

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Irish women are better craic than a lot of other nationalities in my opinion.

I agree Irish women can be great fun - they take themselves a lot less seriously than a lot of other nationalities.

However I do think overall Irish women are a lot more suspicious of men than their foreign sisters...

BumbleB · 17-05-2009 7:01pm

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Lovely. That's good to hear. Hope you're feeling better soon anyhow. One of my faults and I can see it might be one of yours too is I have to get the last word in on a ehhhhh...."debate". I think it comes to a point where you're not going to convince the other person otherwise or the other person is not willing for their opinions to be altered and that's fine.

Another time I was chatting to a guy from Peru about the American elections in a hostel one afternoon...no flirting whatsoever going on and 2 hours later, his local girlfriend storms in and calls me a B***h for TALKING to her boyfriend. She spent the whole day throwing me dagger eyes and when I confronted her, she told me her byfriend "promised to never talk to another girl again".

I came across dagger eyes all over the place....I didn't deserve it...I found alot of foreign couldn't understand that I was just being friendly. I'm not a natural flirt so i'm not sure where they got this impression. Pure small-mindedness that you find the world over.

These are just a few examples..I could go on and on. These types of women are everywhere.

Eve,

Different countries have different traditions and you really should know these things before you go there .I'm well travelled and I make a point of finding out these things before I go . For instance, I'm going to Finland and in finland they have a much bigger personal zone than anywhere else also they don't really humour small talk and the way is over there is the girls approach the guys .
I like Irish girls I know some real live wires fro:)m Dublin.
You see as a nation we are very sociable and that's why a lot of people like us . Irish girls are always nice to foreigners and its usually because their better looking than us.

Eve_Dublin · 18-05-2009 12:39am

BumbleB wrote: »

Eve,

Different countries have different traditions and you really should know these things before you go there .I'm well travelled and I make a point of finding out these things before I go . For instance, I'm going to Finland and in finland they have a much bigger personal zone than anywhere else also they don't really humour small talk and the way is over there is the girls approach the guys .
I like Irish girls I know some real live wires fro:)m Dublin.
You see as a nation we are very sociable and that's why a lot of people like us . Irish girls are always nice to foreigners and its usually because their better looking than us.

Emmm...I don't understand your point in relation to the rest of my arguement???????

BumbleB · 18-05-2009 1:31am

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Emmm...I don't understand your point in relation to the rest of my arguement???????

Well Eve,
My point ,was you said that certain things happened while abroad and that the women acted ott but what I was saying is there is some things are not socially acceptable abroad ,like you could make eye contact with a total stranger on the dart but not on the NY subway.

Maybe in Peru it may be a biggie to talk to another womens man highly unlikely but could be the way in some countries.I dont know I haven't been there so I cant substantiate that .

Also you said foreign guys think that irish girls are the nicest ,that a bit of a foregone conclusion as Irish girls are going to be nice to a foreigner especially if he's italian or whatever ,same goes for either sex.

NickNolte · 18-05-2009 8:39am

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

people who travel tend to be more open-minded...

I've travelled extensively and lived abroad for a good part of my life. I'm still standing by my assertion that Irish women are much more unapproachable than women in most other countries I've been to. To be fair, Irish women are similar to women in certain American cities in terms of their attitudes towards men and the social scene. This makes sense considering the wholesale import of American culture into this country over the last 20 years. Unfortuntely it's not a good thing. Not a good thing at all.

Eve_Dublin · 18-05-2009 3:47pm

BumbleB wrote: »

Well Eve,
My point ,was you said that certain things happened while abroad and that the women acted ott but what I was saying is there is some things are not socially acceptable abroad ,like you could make eye contact with a total stranger on the dart but not on the NY subway.

Maybe in Peru it may be a biggie to talk to another womens man highly unlikely but could be the way in some countries.I dont know I haven't been there so I cant substantiate that .

Also you said foreign guys think that irish girls are the nicest ,that a bit of a foregone conclusion as Irish girls are going to be nice to a foreigner especially if he's italian or whatever ,same goes for either sex.

Sorry....have you actually read this thread??? Not sure why i'm replying when you clearly haven't. I was using these examples to highlight my point that you find these types of women the world over. I came across the dagger eyes in every country in South America....jealousy like this is very much a latin trait...and this includes the men. I'm not blaming the women for acting like this as sometimes the men would flirt and whistle at you right in front of their girlfriends. I'm not even saying it's wrong. I would never judge or generalise about these women from these countries because of a few (okay...a fair few) experiences because I understand why they might be like this, as I explained above.

I wouldn't think that all American women are jealous nutcases based on that one experience (although I came across a fair few when I lived there). I don't think it's a cultural thing to say that American women don't like their boyfriends talking to ANY other women....even in a plutonic, casual way.

I always found the Argentinians to be very encouraging when I tried to speak Spanish and this is why the incident I mentioned above shocked me. My male Argentinian friend said it was typical of women in that city (just goes to show there's men making sweeping generalisations about women in other countries too....poor auld women...probably just their hormones...)

My point is that you have to take each person as they come. That you find women (and men!) acting irrationaly or downright b*****y in every country if you spend some time there. This is a crucial point...you can never understand a culture after only spending a week or so there. A two week holiday to Ibiza and meeting some cool English girls on their holidays having fun doesn't constitute as a reasonable sample of the English female population

And I never said foreign men found Irish women the nicest :rolleyes: if you could actually be bothered to read my posts. My whole point is i'm completely against generalisations. I said that most of the foreign men I met on my travels found Irish women to be more fun in their experience and I found this too (of course I'm biased)....another generalisation of course. Fun does NOT equate to nice...Paris Hilton seems like a whole lot of fun to go out with (in a car-crash type of way) but she doesn't seem like a nice person (but I could be wrong...haven't actually met the girl)

I think you missed most the point behind most of my arguement, BumbleB. Can I advise you to read the posts properly if you're choosing to partake in the debate?

BumbleB · 18-05-2009 4:24pm

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Sorry....have you actually read this thread??? Not sure why i'm replying when you clearly haven't. I was using these examples to highlight my point that you find these types of women the world over. I came across the dagger eyes in every country in South America....jealousy like this is very much a latin trait...and this includes the men. I'm not blaming the women for acting like this as sometimes the men would flirt and whistle at you right in front of their girlfriends. I'm not even saying it's wrong. I would never judge or generalise about these women from these countries because of a few (okay...a fair few) experiences because I understand why they might be like this, as I explained above.

I wouldn't think that all American women are jealous nutcases based on that one experience (although I came across a fair few when I lived there). I don't think it's a cultural thing to say that American women don't like their boyfriends talking to ANY other women....even in a plutonic, casual way.

I always found the Argentinians to be very encouraging when I tried to speak Spanish and this is why the incident I mentioned above shocked me. My male Argentinian friend said it was typical of women in that city (just goes to show there's men making sweeping generalisations about women in other countries too....poor auld women...probably just their hormones...)

My point is that you have to take each person as they come. That you find women (and men!) acting irrationaly or downright b*****y in every country if you spend some time there. This is a crucial point...you can never understand a culture after only spending a week or so there. A two week holiday to Ibiza and meeting some cool English girls on their holidays having fun doesn't constitute as a reasonable sample of the English female population

And I never said foreign men found Irish women the nicest :rolleyes: if you could actually be bothered to read my posts. My whole point is i'm completely against generalisations. I said that most of the foreign men I met on my travels found Irish women to be more fun in their experience and I found this too (of course I'm biased)....another generalisation of course. Fun does NOT equate to nice...Paris Hilton seems like a whole lot of fun to go out with (in a car-crash type of way) but she doesn't seem like a nice person (but I could be wrong...haven't actually met the girl)

I think you missed most the point behind most of my arguement, BumbleB. Can I advise you to read the posts properly if you're choosing to partake in the debate?

Youre a feisty one aren't you ?.By the way its platonic not plutonic .

Eve_Dublin · 19-05-2009 12:05am

BumbleB wrote: »

Youre a feisty one aren't you ?.By the way its platonic not plutonic .

I'm aware of that, BumbleB. It was a typo. Nice try with a smart comeback though!!

Eve_Dublin · 19-05-2009 12:06am

BumbleB wrote: »

Youre a feisty one aren't you ?.By the way its platonic not plutonic .

And if you want to be pedantic about grammer, you don't put a full-stop after a question mark...it's either one or the other. :cool:

Eve_Dublin · 19-05-2009 12:10am

BumbleB wrote: »

Well Eve,
My point ,was you said that certain things happened while abroad and that the women acted ott but what I was saying is there is some things are not socially acceptable abroad ,like you could make eye contact with a total stranger on the dart but not on the NY subway.

Maybe in Peru it may be a biggie to talk to another womens man highly unlikely but could be the way in some countries.I dont know I haven't been there so I cant substantiate that .

Also you said foreign guys think that irish girls are the nicest ,that a bit of a foregone conclusion as Irish girls are going to be nice to a foreigner especially if he's italian or whatever ,same goes for either sex.

And it's "another woman's man" NOT "another womens men"...makes no sense. You could say "other women's men" for the plural. I could go on and on but I think you get the idea. I am indeed a feisty one. Seems like you are yourself.

Porkpie · 19-05-2009 9:40am

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

And if you want to be pedantic about grammer, you don't put a full-stop after a question mark...it's either one or the other. :cool:

It's 'grammar' by the way. What were we talking about again?

Eve_Dublin · 19-05-2009 9:48am

Porkpie wrote: »

It's 'grammar' by the way. What were we talking about again?

I could see that coming....haha! I deserved it.;)

BumbleB · 19-05-2009 11:25am

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I could see that coming....haha! I deserved it.;)

Yes ,people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones .ha ha

Eve_Dublin · 19-05-2009 11:29am

Indeed. I apologise. The worst part of it is I'm doing a TEFL course at the moment and have been working on the GrammAR part of it now for the past week. My students are dooooooomed!

Anyway, digressing BIG time there. Continue...

Sharlovesjohn · 19-05-2009 11:34am

Why does the men have to do all the work? why cant the girls ask a guy if they like to have a drink....

Eve_Dublin · 19-05-2009 11:37am

Yeah, we've been debating that very point on this thread. Look back and see what people have said. I would agree with you, by the way.

Sharlovesjohn · 19-05-2009 11:44am

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Yeah, we've been debating that very point on this thread. Look back and see what people have said. I would agree with you, by the way.

Sorry was going to but there are sum huge comments here im only on a 15 min break clearly not long enough!!

I always approach men, I dont bother hanging around waiting for them to ask me for a drink that just ends up with a disappointed night most of the time,
the worse they can say is no? so what move on to the next one! and if the OP friends are as nice you claim Im sure they will come home with floods of phone numbers

Porkpie · 19-05-2009 12:01pm

Sharlovesjohn wrote: »

why cant the girls ask a guy if they like to have a drink....

Cos they don't have the balls to do it!

Seriously though, this has been asked before and the point is being made again and again that women should take the initiative a bit more. A sort of traditionalist view among women still exists where the guy must always make the effort and the woman accepts or rejects as she pleases.

And I often hear women say "there's just no decent, mature guys available". Yes there are! Look around you, some do actually extist! These are the guys that often face ridicule when trying to start conversation with you! Yes, the numbers do dwindle as it heads towards 2am and we get drunker

. But can you blame us for saying "feck it, none of these women have any interest, I'm having a double JD and coke to numb the pain of rejection". So my suggestion is, ladies, if you're interested, why not talk to us, we don't bite!

Sharlovesjohn · 19-05-2009 12:03pm

Porkpie wrote: »

Cos they don't have the balls to do it! Seriously though, this has been asked before and the point is being made again and again that women should take the initiative a bit more. A sort of traditionalist view among women still exists where the guy must always make the effort and the woman accepts or rejects as she pleases.

And I often hear women say "there's just no decent, mature guys available". Yes there are! Look around you, some do actually extist! These are the guys that often face ridicule when trying to start conversation with you! Yes, the numbers do dwindle as it heads towards 2am and we get drunker . But can you blame us for saying "feck it, none of these women have any interest, I'm having a double JD and coke to numb the pain of rejection". So my suggestion is, ladies, if you're interested, why not talk to us, we don't bite!

totally agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eve_Dublin · 19-05-2009 12:27pm

I whole-heartedly agree with this. Made this point before that it's hypocritical of us to demand equal rights when we act like Victorian debutante when we go to a club or pub. Get a grip of yourselves those ladies who don't "make the moves". I would genuinely be interested to know what would stop a girl approaching a guy she liked the look of. I understand that it's incredibly nerve-wracking for anyone..you're essentially putting your ego on the line but really, what have any of us got to loose? If your secure enough in yourself (without being cocky), then you should be able to handle any reaction...and you'll come across as confident, which is always, always appealing.Any answers? Maybe I'll start a new thread.

bogzilla · 19-05-2009 9:46pm

Porkpie wrote: »

Cos they don't have the balls to do it! Seriously though, this has been asked before and the point is being made again and again that women should take the initiative a bit more. A sort of traditionalist view among women still exists where the guy must always make the effort and the woman accepts or rejects as she pleases.

And I often hear women say "there's just no decent, mature guys available". Yes there are! Look around you, some do actually extist! These are the guys that often face ridicule when trying to start conversation with you! Yes, the numbers do dwindle as it heads towards 2am and we get drunker . But can you blame us for saying "feck it, none of these women have any interest, I'm having a double JD and coke to numb the pain of rejection". So my suggestion is, ladies, if you're interested, why not talk to us, we don't bite!

this comment is perfection.

i am that guy.

more and more now, i chat up women less and less.

i usually just go for a single JD and coke though!

MIN2511 · 19-05-2009 10:05pm

We keep going around in circles...

Men won't chat women and women won't chat men up, we will all remain single for the rest of our lives!!!!!

bogzilla · 19-05-2009 10:12pm

MIN2511 wrote: »

We keep going around in circles...

Men won't chat women and women won't chat men up, we will all remain single for the rest of our lives!!!!!

i understand your point but don't agree with it fully.

women won't chat up men, ever.

men won't chat up women, actually after repeated rejections they just stop trying so hard.

but i agree, both lose out in the end!

MIN2511 · 19-05-2009 10:20pm

bogzilla wrote: »

i understand your point but don't agree with it fully.

women won't chat up men, ever.

men won't chat up women, actually after repeated rejections they just stop trying so hard.

but i agree, both lose out in the end!

Been there and done that... What i noticed is that when a girl chats the guy up he thinks she's way into me than i am into her... And then he hardly wants more, or he wants a **** body situation...

Irish men think women who approach them first are very forward. They see them as being desperate for relationships and emotionally dependent.

BumbleB · 19-05-2009 10:29pm

MIN2511 wrote: »

Been there and done that... What i noticed is that when a girl chats the guy up he thinks she's way into me than i am into her... And then he hardly wants more, or he wants a **** body situation...

Irish men think women who approach them first are very forward. They see them as being desperate for relationships and emotionally dependent.

You definitely have a point there .
So what do you do when you see a guy who interests you in a club or wherever ?.Just Interested to know.

I know Eve will be checking my grammer .:)

MIN2511 · 19-05-2009 10:41pm

BumbleB wrote: »

You definitely have a point there .
So what do you do when you see a guy who interests you in a club or wherever ?.Just Interested to know.

I know Eve will be checking my grammer .:)

Honestly, i hardly do anything...

Three wks ago i met a guy at a night club, i actually approached him and we had a conversation. I gave him my number and he texted me last week(he's an eejit so that's over).

bogzilla · 19-05-2009 10:48pm

MIN2511 wrote: »

Honestly, i hardly do anything...

Three wks ago i met a guy at a night club, i actually approached him and we had a conversation. I gave him my number and he texted me last week(he's an eejit so that's over).

it's good to see that it does happen. fair play to you.

if a girl came over chatting to me, i think i could tell fairly quickly whether she's desperate or not. either way i wouldn't be rude.

bottom line is if i fancied her and thought she was nice it'd be a great result!

MIN2511 · 19-05-2009 11:04pm

bogzilla wrote: »

it's good to see that it does happen. fair play to you.

if a girl came over chatting to me, i think i could tell fairly quickly whether she's desperate or not. either way i wouldn't be rude.

bottom line is if i fancied her and thought she was nice it'd be a great result!

It's the catch 22 isn't it....

Rejection is horrible! I will never be rude to a guy except if he deserves it, i have been decent and nice all the time. Made pointless conversation, talked about random ****e because i don't want him to feel bad.

Eve_Dublin · 19-05-2009 11:26pm

Do you think that a lot of the time women presume men (even the nice guys) just want a one night stand and men presume women (even the ones just looking for a bit of fun) want a relationship and this turns both sexes off? Perhaps the men and women don't always want to be preceived that way but how do they get this across without saying it outright?? I do think we're more similiar than we'd like to admit but when it comes to the "dating game", we think very, very differently.

Sorry, that's not to say that "Nice guys" aren't looking for a one-night stands either....nothing wrong with one-night stands as long as you wear protection (!) but sometimes a man or a woman who admits to "only wanting one thing" is ridiculed by all and sundry...women are sometimes labelled sluts and men as a-holes.

MIN2511 · 19-05-2009 11:35pm

Too much presumptions going on, why can't we act like human beings and just be civil to one another.. Why do women have to think men want sex/relationships... Why are we stereotypes? Blonde, blue eyes? Eh, why why why and bloody why!

tolteq · 20-05-2009 4:38pm

sparkplug82 wrote: »

can anyone shed any light on this?

Yes. Nice guys are shy of women and dont want to be end up being rejected by "b*tch-faced-trouble-girl-who-knows-she-looks-good-and-cant-stand-any men-but-d4-rugby-jocks"

scanlas · 20-05-2009 6:24pm

Women often initiate conversations with men where the man thinks it was him who initiated it. For example a woman might stand near a man for a while, give repeated eye contact and smile, brush by him "by accident" or or do something which will get the man's attention by saying something loud near him.

If I were a woman and didn't want to seem to too eager I'd do the above.

Or you could calibrate you over eagerness when you approach by teasing him playfully and being a bit challenging. Tell him he's cute and ask him what makes him different from everyone else in here.

Wibbs · 20-05-2009 7:09pm

tolteq wrote: »

Yes. Nice guys are shy of women and dont want to be end up being rejected by "b*tch-faced-trouble-girl-who-knows-she-looks-good-and-cant-stand-any men-but-d4-rugby-jocks"

Ok I see the rejection by some eejit, but still if she's an eejit, well then bullet dodged and on to the next one. Personally speaking I will only invest emotional energy into someone I've gotten some emotional energy back from. Someone that has invested in me as well. It seems wasteful of my energy to invest any thought in someone, man or woman, who doesn't reciprocate with even the basics of manners. As I say bullet dodged, lesson learned, move on. It's not as if women are scarce is it? There's always a better stranger to get to know. Only when I know someone will I think beyond that.

The bit I don't get is the "nice guys are shy with women". Almost as if it's equaling nice with shy which IMHO is both a cop out and an utter crock. Now apologies if I'm taking you up wrong, but it does read like that.

Complete gits can be shy with women too. I've known a fair few like that and I also know even more decent good men who are not shy with women. One of the nicest and most truly decent human beings I know is a man who would have little problem talking to a woman(or a man) he bumped into at a bar.

Being shy does not equate with being nice. IMHO it's used as an excuse by men who have little success in social situations and blame others, women especially, for not magically seeing their "niceness". I know a lot of women fancy themselves as psychic, but they're not that good. They have to speak with you first. Shyness is just as likely to equate with self indulgent or socially inept behaviour. Of course others are just quiet by nature and that's fine too, if it doesn't restrict them in their lives.

Indeed my opinion would be that the ability to interact in a balanced socially healthy way is a good thing as we are a social animal and would indicate a well formed mind and life experience. At either extremes, both excessively forward and excessively backward is where you're more likely to find the gits IMHO and IME. The loud ones are more obvious and that's about it.

This would be age and/or experience specific though. A guy at say 17 is more likely to be reticent around women as naturally he's still learning the ropes and feeling his way to a place in the world. I know I was and that's part of growing up, but there would come an age and stage in life where a man should be beyond that to at least some degree.

In any case what's there to be shy about? Women are just people. And as people have their own hangups and problems. Just because they possess breasts doesn't make them any better or worse than men or you.

If you're shy with men and women, then fine, that's another thing, but overly restricting your shyness to one gender and possibly equating that with being "nice" as a self indulgent get out clause seems daft to me.

Wibbs · 20-05-2009 7:12pm

scanlas wrote: »

Women often initiate conversations with men where the man thinks it was him who initiated it. For example a woman might stand near a man for a while, give repeated eye contact and smile, brush by him "by accident" or or do something which will get the man's attention by saying something loud near him.

If I were a woman and didn't want to seem to too eager I'd do the above.

Not a bad plan at all.

musicmonky · 21-05-2009 12:23am

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I whole-heartedly agree with this. Made this point before that it's hypocritical of us to demand equal rights when we act like Victorian debutante when we go to a club or pub. Get a grip of yourselves those ladies who don't "make the moves". I would genuinely be interested to know what would stop a girl approaching a guy she liked the look of. I understand that it's incredibly nerve-wracking for anyone..you're essentially putting your ego on the line but really, what have any of us got to loose? If your secure enough in yourself (without being cocky), then you should be able to handle any reaction...and you'll come across as confident, which is always, always appealing.Any answers? Maybe I'll start a new thread.

that is the best thing i have read in ages. thank god.
in every other place in europe women are not backwards in being forward. Except Ireland.

Irish men are mostly decent and respectfull. And in most cases shared s hitless of women.

The women and girls I see are like Lilly Allen multiplied by Amy Winehouse.

Maybe its the role models....*

97i9y3941 · 21-05-2009 12:58am

i often think if you are a complete b#stard or a w@nker along with a cheating c#nt you have no problem pulling women *god knows i seen and met women whos bfs where like that,then i heard the saying treat them mean keep them keen,but then im too nice to do that!

BumbleB · 21-05-2009 1:05am

musicmonky wrote: »

that is the best thing i have read in ages. thank god.
in every other place in europe women are not backwards in being forward. Except Ireland.

*

So true .

Wibbs · 21-05-2009 9:36am

Fred83 wrote: »

i often think if you are a complete b#stard or a w@nker along with a cheating c#nt you have no problem pulling women *god knows i seen and met women whos bfs where like that,then i heard the saying treat them mean keep them keen,but then im too nice to do that!

Oh there's defo an element of that and no mistake. I think many guys are are unsure of what to do and end up going to one extreme or other. Being too nicetm or being gitstm. Both spring from insecurity I would say. I would also agree that on average the git will get far more results than the too nice guy. A lot of women will disagree vehemently and then go straight for the git, so the nice guy's opinion gets backed up by experience. Rinse and repeat.

When I say too nice, I mean they are backward in coming forward, when they do they immediately put the woman on a pedestal or treat her like some precious alien and they are not confident enough to have boundaries. Major turn off in general to women in my experience. The git appears to have some of the traits of the actual nice balanced confident man. They're not afraid to talk to a woman. They appear self confident and are clear in what they want and are in more control. All attractive traits in men for women. In the absence of those kind of balanced men women will go for the git. Mostly because they've not met too many of the balanced guy. I would say in my 20's I knew one maybe two of the emotionally balanced and together men. Knew a lot of gits and loads of nice guys. many of the gits were ex nice guys who felt hard done by and then threw the baby out with the bathwater and went to the other extreme.

Outside of all that the nice guy has one major disadvantage compared to the git. Because he doesn't talk with them they never get to see he's ok as a person. You could have the mind of Einstein, the heart of mother Teresa and be hung like a bull, but if you don't talk to her, how will she know?

NickNolte · 21-05-2009 9:43am

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh there's defo an element of that and no mistake. I think many guys are are unsure of what to do and end up going to one extreme or other. Being too nicetm or being gitstm. Both spring from insecurity I would say. I would also agree that on average the git will get far more results than the too nice guy. A lot of women will disagree vehemently and then go straight for the git, so the nice guy's opinion gets backed up by experience. Rinse and repeat.

When I say too nice, I mean they are backward in coming forward, when they do they immediately put the woman on a pedestal or treat her like some precious alien and they are not confident enough to have boundaries. Major turn off in general to women in my experience. The git appears to have some of the traits of the actual nice balanced confident man. They're not afraid to talk to a woman. They appear self confident and are clear in what they want and are in more control. All attractive traits in men for women. In the absence of those kind of balanced men women will go for the git. Mostly because they've not met too many of the balanced guy. I would say in my 20's I knew one maybe two of the emotionally balanced and together men. Knew a lot of gits and loads of nice guys. many of the gits were ex nice guys who felt hard done by and then threw the baby out with the bathwater and went to the other extreme.

Outside of all that the nice guy has one major disadvantage compared to the git. Because he doesn't talk with them they never get to see he's ok as a person. You could have the mind of Einstein, the heart of mother Teresa and be hung like a bull, but if you don't talk to her, how will she know?

Teenage dating psychology 101. Come on now... once you get into your mid-20's at the latest, these gross stereotypes become hollow and pointless. Most men are far more complex than that.

NickNolte · 21-05-2009 9:45am

scanlas wrote: »

Women often initiate conversations with men where the man thinks it was him who initiated it. For example a woman might stand near a man for a while, give repeated eye contact and smile, brush by him "by accident" or or do something which will get the man's attention by saying something loud near him.

If I were a woman and didn't want to seem to too eager I'd do the above.

Or you could calibrate you over eagerness when you approach by teasing him playfully and being a bit challenging. Tell him he's cute and ask him what makes him different from everyone else in here.

That's one of the most pathetic things I've ever heard.

Wibbs · 21-05-2009 10:02am

NickNolte wrote: »

Teenage dating psychology 101. Come on now... once you get into your mid-20's at the latest, these gross stereotypes become hollow and pointless. Most men are far more complex than that.

Of course and it's more obvious in the younger types and they're extremes, but they're still in play to some degree or other even down the line. I've seen it in 40 year olds. I know and have known a fair few of the nice guy types in their 30's that are either relationship free for long periods of time or have gotten lucky with one woman. I can think of more than one that has never had a meaningful relationship with a woman. I also know guys who are insecure enough in themselves that their marriages are in trouble and they can't see why, or they don't even see it in the first place. It's not just the 20 year olds. Actually I would see more of the "treat em mean keep em keen" in 30+ year olds than in younger men. They've had more bad experiences(I would say mostly down to their own choices too) and that has a tendency to make them bitter, or much more cautious. All too often all the passing years do is make people better at covering up personal insecurities, not dealing with them.

NickNolte · 21-05-2009 10:09am

Wibbs wrote: »

Of course and it's more obvious in the younger types and they're extremes, but they're still in play to some degree or other even down the line. I've seen it in 40 year olds. I know and have known a fair few of the nice guy types in their 30's that are either relationship free for long periods of time or have gotten lucky with one woman. I can think of more than one that has never had a meaningful relationship with a woman. I also know guys who are insecure enough in themselves that their marriages are in trouble and they can't see why, or they don't even see it in the first place. It's not just the 20 year olds. Actually I would see more of the "treat em mean keep em keen" in 30+ year olds than in younger men. They've had more bad experiences(I would say mostly down to their own choices too) and that has a tendency to make them bitter, or much more cautious. All too often all the passing years do is make people better at covering up personal insecurities, not dealing with them.

I know plenty of men and women that fit that description. To be fair though, they're a lot less common in your 30's than in your 20's. Confidence grows with age in most cases. It's not just a case of people in their 20's hitting their 30's and then hiding their insecurities from the world.

Wibbs · 21-05-2009 10:36am

NickNolte wrote: »

I know plenty of men and women that fit that description.

Oh no I agree 100%.

To be fair though, they're a lot less common in your 30's than in your 20's. Confidence grows with age in most cases. It's not just a case of people in their 20's hitting their 30's and then hiding their insecurities from the world.

True in a lot of cases, but I would also say that as many just get better at hiding it. The men and women I knew at 20 who were insecure are still insecure at 35/40. Less, but it's there.

97i9y3941 · 21-05-2009 12:10pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually I would see more of the "treat em mean keep em keen" in 30+ year olds than in younger men. They've had more bad experiences(I would say mostly down to their own choices too) and that has a tendency to make them bitter, or much more cautious. All too often all the passing years do is make people better at covering up personal insecurities, not dealing with them.

sometimes my friend,its because they can get away with it because the girl is so quiet but yet happy with the abuse she gets,love is strange that way...

Wibbs · 21-05-2009 2:25pm

Oh true. My interest would lie in why that is. Is it as the pickup artist types say, that women as a group look for dominant males as a preference and women who do this to an unhealthy degree are aberrant behaviors at the extreme of that and that some men plug into that? Is it a societal thing?

97i9y3941 · 21-05-2009 3:03pm

just out of fear really and threating mind games so we woundnt see the scars

irish_bob · 21-05-2009 8:37pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh no I agree 100%.
True in a lot of cases, but I would also say that as many just get better at hiding it. The men and women I knew at 20 who were insecure are still insecure at 35/40. Less, but it's there.

if your insecure at 25 , then you are going to be insecure at 45 or even 65 , after people hit thier early to mid 20,s,.whatever personality they have at that stage , stays with them , its formed and it cant really be changed , i dont mean in terms of someone being an alcoholic or engaging in criminal behaviour , i mean in terms of confidence , self esteem issues , how they view themselves , im 30 and i was a much different person at 20 but then something happend to me at 21 , ive been the exact same more or less for the last 9 years and will always be like this now

Why don't men approach women?

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