Why don't men approach women?

Nervous Wreck

^^Agreed, I've never had one of those violent reactions either, it sounds really strange. The worst I've had is someone just refusing to make conversation and giving one word responses to which I lazily, yet quite cheerily, replied "Well! You're fairly boring!" and moved on with my night... Either way, I love chatting to people in bars etc. It's a laugh more than anything else and if anything else comes of it, bonus!


EDIT: That was agreed with Wibbs...

Wagon

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe it's me or the places I'm going or the women I'm meeting, but I really don't get this kinda thing to nearly the same degree others seem to. OK you get the odd fcukwit, but that's life. I've never had a woman give me grief like say Wagon got with the whole smoking section lighter thing. Quite teh opposite for the most part, I find in general women easy enough to talk to, drunk or sober. Then again I'm an older bloke so maybe that's it? The ones my age are chilled out and the young ones are afraid of their dads and that passes on to me or I look easy to beat up(which I am):D

I'd agree with you on the age thing, older people are more chilled and generally friendlier anyway. And clubs are where you get the most venom. Which i suppose is understandable as there is a lot of muppets in there just looking for a ride so i can understand a girl getting pissed off at that. The thing i hate is that all lads are assumed to be like that and we all get treated like ****e. It's a funny paradox. Women look at men and say "Ah they're all looking for the seks. Desperate ****", and then complain when they don't get approached by anyone.

worded

There are points of a room where if rejected, a lot of people will see the embarrassed male move away on fire. Try and avoid these places.

Generally speaking a central point of a room can be good to meet people I hear.

Or at an early house, near the bar.

nicegirl

A very interesting subject, and I cannot help but express my opinion on this.

Ladies, I am no expert, but I find that going out with one other friend may help you along with attracting men and getting them to approach you. I can totally understand from a man's point of view how intimidating it must be to approach a group of girls, and only possibly wanting to chat up one of them!

You and your two friends do sound like nice girls, and you mentioned that they dress well. Dressing appropriately is in my opinion, is one of the most things a lad will notice about you. If a girl dresses like a "Slut" super short skirt, short top etc they can attract alot of gits, or give out the impression to lads that they are just after sex.

I believe its not only important to dress appropriately, but is how you wear a nice dress, or outfit what I mean is how a girl carries herself, or how a girl can display confidence as she walks.

Smiling whilst walking through a crowd

Taking a little walk around a niteclub/pub by yourself would also make it easier for lads to approach a girl

Thats all I can think of!!

I have been approached by nice lads and some lads I wasn't interested in, and it was great if I liked them, but if a lad approached me that I didn't find attractive I would talk to him for a few minutes, and say it was nice to meet you, or it was nice talking to you. I would never be rude to a lad I wasn't interested in. Put yourselves in a man's shoes, it must take alot of courage to come up and talk to a girl, and it must hurt if some girl tells him to get lost, or something else rude.

I do not get on very well with girls, only girls that are genuinely nice. Alot of irish girls are complete b*tches :mad: and I can totally understand why men wouldn't approach them.



Anyways ladies, I hope that helps!!

Schism

From reading this thread I've come to the conclusion that it can a win win situation for us guys, if you have the right attitude.

Say you pluck up the courage to try and chat up a girl you have your eye on.

If it goes well : Win (for obvious reaons)
If she's nice but not interested : Win, it's still a nice confidence booster
If she's a stone cold bitch : Win, you don't want to associate with her kind anyway.

nicegirl

Like I say it takes alot of courage for any man to go up and talk to a girl, and I cannot understand how a girl can be so rude to a man :mad:

If only all girls were polite, and nice to lads they didn't like, then maybe lads would be a bit more approachable to other girls

wolfric

I'm thinking of a new movement kind of like when people start wearing bands around their wrists or tats or stickers saying the basic message:

Not a bitch/asshole Kind of like a wave in an attempt to bring people closer together by encouraging people to talk to random people in the street on a regular basis. Something like t-shirts with... "its official... i'm certified Not a completly ahole!"

Personally i don't often try to pick up people but i really enjoy talking to them. On the street/bus/bars/clubs walking past me etc i just find it nice to engage with society and glide over diverse interesting people.

I read something quite interesting in a book that said (and i'm powerphrasing here because i've forgotten how they made it so simple and short and yet clear)
When people are in high places, those in lower places look up to them because they want to have a superior position over people at their level. So they aspire to be in that position and when they reach it they become ungenuine and an a-hole who uses the position to assert dominance.
So those who gain this position naturally, use it gracefully and retain their genuine personality but those who just see them up there and aim for it make a big deal out of it once they get it and treat those under unrightfully.

I've seen more friendly supermodels and actors that are easy to approach. This speaks volumes. Personally i find it fun to hang around in clubs and bars but if you're looking for company for gods sake go to a cafe or some activity or a club/society. In my opinion, the chase is attractive but in terms of personal development, the club scene is just a repetitive scene where you show yourself off instead of improving yourself. Its like taking tests every night instead of learning anything good. I've met the most amazing people of my life in day to day life which isn't to say that clubs aren't great but every night? You need to really consider why you're going and what you want from it and from your life.

coffee_cake

nicegirl wrote: »

Like I say it takes alot of courage for any man to go up and talk to a girl, and I cannot understand how a girl can be so rude to a man :mad:

If only all girls were polite, and nice to lads they didn't like, then maybe lads would be a bit more approachable to other girls

Yeah I love when women post "but I cant chat a lad up, what if he says no?"
Yeah... welcome to real life.

Wibbs

Schism wrote: »

From reading this thread I've come to the conclusion that it can a win win situation for us guys, if you have the right attitude.

Say you pluck up the courage to try and chat up a girl you have your eye on.

If it goes well : Win (for obvious reaons)
If she's nice but not interested : Win, it's still a nice confidence booster
If she's a stone cold bitch : Win, you don't want to associate with her kind anyway.

+100.

I dunno, a lot of guys need to get over this worry. Every guy has had it at one time or another, but it's pretty much all in the head. It really is.

IMHO the thing is;

1)No woman is special. Not a one. That is until you get to know her and she proves herself to be a nice attractive romantically available interesting person(of course you have to do the same).

2)Don't be a doormat. Doormats are useful for wiping your feet. That's where it begins and ends. If you feel yourself under a compliment and your boundaries are being pushed, refer to number 1.

3) there are a lot of women. Inexhaustible supply indeed and if you want it a pretty inexhaustible supply of sex too. Maybe not with the woman you want, but its easy to get. Again see point 1.

4) further to point 3, if you consistently never have any success in just talking with women, never mind anything else, then the fault lies more with you than them. Te advice "be yourself" is grand but useless, if yourself is boring, toxic and cynical. Look to yourself first. Forget about the "bitches". See where you are going wrong. If you're overly shy and it's not a pathological/phobic issue, then work on that. If it is a pathological/phobic issue, get help. If you think you're too fat/thin whatever well work on that too. To not work on oneself and sit there doing the same thing is ironically enough self indulgent.

5) even if you think you're butt ugly, I guarantee there has been a woman in your past or even your present that fancies you.

6) bite the bullet. You can rail against the inequities of life and moan that it's up to you to do the chasing and sit and do nothing. Or you can accept that and work with it. Píss with the wind not into it.

7) Even if 90% of women were utter bitches(and they're not), that leaves 10 out of 100 that aren't. Seek them out and calmly and with a smile ignore the rest.

8) practice makes perfect.

To the women that complain they don't get approached? I would say that you probably do, but too often they may be drunk or just not your type. Be nice to both. You never know. Men are visual creatures, so look the best you can. Remember, you worry more about that extra 5 pounds than he will. Most men can't tell a woman's clothes size. Men have two clothes sizes in women; "jaysus I would!" or "Not with yours mate!", but you would be surprised how variable that is with different men. Smile more. Chat. Don't assume they're just trying to get into your knickers. OK lets face it they are. And lets face it if you like the look of them you want them to get into your knickers too. It's at the background of all of this dating lark. Big deal. Accept it. Both his and your sexuality on first principles and get the idea out of the way. Then you can get to deal with the guy on other levels. Have fun and you will look like you're having fun and are a fun person to be with. Men in relationships prefer a fun easy going woman, than a pert arse. Trust me pert arses are nice, but you do get used to it. You never get used to a harpy. Again like number 5 for the men, there is and have been men that you know that fancy you.

My 2 cents anyway.

nicegirl

bluewolf wrote: »

Yeah I love when women post "but I cant chat a lad up, what if he says no?"
Yeah... welcome to real life.

I would not have the courage to go and talk to a lad which is why I do what I wrote when I go out, up above. I am fully aware how much courage it would take to go and talk to a girl, which is something I respect in lads. If I don't like someone I talk to them, am polite, and say nice to meet you. Im not some horrible b*tch

LegacyUser

Perhaps the reason that foreign women are more receptive to Irish men's advances are because they're either here on their holidays or else they haven't been here long enough to become jaded and bored by the drunken, messy approach ALOT of Irish men use or perhaps you're still a novelty to them...

I think that's a good example of the uber-cailín attitude right there.

Socioeconomic/novelty issues aside I think it's fair to say that European women are much less abrasive than those in the Anglosphere, in general.

coffee_cake

nicegirl wrote: »

I would not have the courage to go and talk to a lad which is why I do what I wrote when I go out, up above. I am fully aware how much courage it would take to go and talk to a girl, which is something I respect in lads. If I don't like someone I talk to them, am polite, and say nice to meet you. Im not some horrible b*tch

I was continuing your point, not aiming that at you

relax

nicegirl

You're grand, no problem I hate nasty b*tches myself though, I keep away from them, don't know how men do it at all

LegacyUser

I never understood guys chatting up girls in pubs/clubs, it seems so degrading and undignified.


Every time you approach a girl you're putting her in a position of tremendous power over you. Then when you get rejected, it's her basically saying "I'm better than you". Now, i don't know about you, but my ego would not be able to take that on a regular basis.Why should i give women such ego boosts without any gaurantee of anything in return?

I see my friends (who are better looking than me) trying and failing week in week out. When i go out, i want to unwind and have fun, not stress myself out.



Once (while off my tits) I was queueing for the cloak room talking to some randomers in front, as you do. While they were being attended to i turned around to talk to the two people behind me, thinking nothing of the fact that they were female.


As soon as i turned around one of them said something really rude and insulting. I was feeling extra confident that night (:D) so i just called them out on it, telling them how rude they were and how that's no way to treat fellow human beings and their response was something along the lines of real men not feeling emotions :mad:.
The thing is, they weren't even good looking, which also pissed me off (at least if i got rejected by a stunner it wouldn't be so bad ).



Another thing i've noticed is that girls can punch well above their weight in a club.Only a small percentage of long term relationships start in clubs. I think guys would be better off keeping their dignity and playing it cool.



and O.P, this is the 21st century, why should they expect guys to take all the risks?
Sorry for the rant.

Wibbs

OK I can see your point. I genuinely can but let me play devils advocate for a time and it is my humble so take it with a pinch of salt if you will...

Unregistered wrote: »

I never understood guys chatting up girls in pubs/clubs, it seems so degrading and undignified.

Maybe but it is the current status quo, such as it is.

Every time you approach a girl you're putting her in a position of tremendous power over you.

Depends entirely how you look at it. You see a woman that physically attracts you and at that stage that's all it is. You go over to see whats what. Why does she suddenly have power over you? You're the one taking the decision to walk over, gauge her reaction and then accept or reject her on the basis of how she reacts. If anything you're the one with the power. The power to make that move.

Then when you get rejected, it's her basically saying "I'm better than you".

I would say that's simply her not seeing what shes missing out on. And that's fine. Maybe you came across badly, you weren't looking or acting your best, or you're simply not her type. Fine I say. On all counts. Though I would work on the coming off badly if that's a consistent issue.

Now, i don't know about you, but my ego would not be able to take that on a regular basis.Why should i give women such ego boosts without any gaurantee of anything in return?

Life has no guarantees. That's the nature of it, so live with it. The only guarantee is that you live it and it ends and you have remarkable control over how you live it until it ends.

I see my friends (who are better looking than me) trying and failing week in week out. When i go out, i want to unwind and have fun, not stress myself out.

Well then do so. Unwind and have fun and forget about everything but who you are and who you want to be and how yu want to act, within yourself. If some woman comes along that plugs into that, well then great. Lucky for you and lucky for her. Otherwise let the rest of the BS go.

Once (while off my tits) I was queueing for the cloak room talking to some randomers in front, as you do. While they were being attended to i turned around to talk to the two people behind me, thinking nothing of the fact that they were female.


As soon as i turned around one of them said something really rude and insulting. I was feeling extra confident that night (:D) so i just called them out on it, telling them how rude they were and how that's no way to treat fellow human beings and their response was something along the lines of real men not feeling emotions :mad:.

And they were right to some degree(here come the flames:s:)), "Real men" feel emotions. Of that there is no doubt. More men than women so far anyway, are the poets and the artists that have publicly reflected the emotions of this world. It wasn't Wilhmena Shakespeare. Emotions are not the issue and the women in that case were saying that, though clumsily. Men may feel emotions and express them, indeed they would not be secure men if they didn't, but what they were trying to say was that men should understand what emotions matter and what emotions should count and what emotions should not be worth a second thought. They were calling you on the latter. Women are very good judges of that and what they were trying to say is that two random lassies in a queue who are being rude are not worthy of that level of emotion from you as a man.

The thing is, they weren't even good looking, which also pissed me off (at least if i got rejected by a stunner it wouldn't be so bad ).

Which makes you just as bad as far as obvious responses go. It would have been easier to take if they were roides? That says as much about you as them. Oh don't get me wrong, nothing against you. I've been there and it took me a fair oul time to see the daftness of it and I'm still working on it to some degree, however small.

Another thing i've noticed is that girls can punch well above their weight in a club.

I agree 100%. Mainly because it's a visual environment and women have that edge as men are more triggered by that. Get those self same women in the cold light of day and you may find far more insecurity than you know how to handle.

Only a small percentage of long term relationships start in clubs. I think guys would be better off keeping their dignity and playing it cool.

agreed.

and O.P, this is the 21st century, why should they expect guys to take all the risks?
Sorry for the rant.

It may be the 21st century, but men and women instinctively know that under the surface it's an older century or centuries at play. We may claim to have equality and in in general life we arguably are approaching that(well some way to go but...), but in the reproductive/mating/dating arena, those old primeval instincts hold more sway than either gender admit to for the most part. Yes there are men and women that exist and thrive outside it, but the majority don't. As I said before, I prefer to go with the flow than against it.

My 2 cents anyhoo.

cloudymouse

If you look at most of the animal kingdom a female is the boss , but when she accepts you, You are the king (or main course) , from stoneage times the strongest got the best but now its all changed , women form packs and you must weather the storm . My advice is if a girl is nasty to you say thank you and good night and if she 's nice to you be nice back and make sure you walk her to her door.

Eve_Dublin

Unregistered wrote: »

I think that's a good example of the uber-cailín attitude right there.

Socioeconomic/novelty issues aside I think it's fair to say that European women are much less abrasive than those in the Anglosphere, in general.

What the hell is an "uber cailin"? You're the one down with the post-tiger lingo, my friend...not me. What does that make you??

Listen, us irish women get a fair amount of vitriolic abuse in this forum and other forums on this website (have a look at After Hours)...some Irish men can't get as good as they give. Case in point above. Everyday I see more and more posts knocking Irish women by men who spend half of their feckin' lives on the internet!

The abuse is unbelievable and if a poster was knocking about these type of remarks in relation to ethnic monorities or the disabled etc. then I'm sure a moderator would ban them but no, we're expected to put up with this cr*p like we've always done. Another good reason why some women might be b****s to men like the ones that come in here and abuse us is because maybe you're just not very nice people, your posts certainly convey that and with our "women's intuition" :rolleyes: , we know. I like and respect most Irish men but if I ever gave some of the men in this forum the cold-shoulder then I think I had a lucky escape, to be honest. Some of the men's attitudes to women in here is disgusting. I know I'm going to get some abuse over what I wrote above but water off a duck's back....bring it on!!

LegacyUser

Lads i can really identify with the posts here.I do go to nightclubs quite alot and i am considered to be good looking but anytime i do try to chat up a girl i normally just get abuse.Im thinking of packing in the whole nightclub scene completely.Irish women are pathetic vain *****.

xIsabelx

veryangryman wrote: »

Millwall, Millwall, you're all really dreadful, and all your girlfriends are unfulfilled and alienated.

WIN!!

Anyone who came over to me and said that would NOT be sent away :P


I've had guys come over to me a couple of times and I have never act ignorant towards them, (even if I'm not interested) because I can imagine how hard it must be for anyone to approach a guy/girl. I could never do it, and I greatly admire anyone who can.

Eve_Dublin

Unregistered wrote: »

Lads i can really identify with the posts here.I do go to nightclubs quite alot and i am considered to be good looking but anytime i do try to chat up a girl i normally just get abuse.Im thinking of packing in the whole nightclub scene completely.Irish women are pathetic vain *****.

As I said before, if this was said against an ethnic minority group, this would not be tolerated in PI. What's the story???

nicegirl

The fact of the matter is that most irish girls are complete b*tches, and thank god i am not one of them. I get on better with lads any day of the week, and only genuinely nice girls that are my friends. Irish girls are cocky, love themselves, and there are only a very few nice irish girls out there. Its so sterotypical that a man goes to chat up a girl but if it was the other way around.....my god the massacre on this forum.
Irish girls need to wake up, and actually take notice of a man, and realise it takes alot of courage to talk to a girl. :mad:If a man is drunk, fair enough he dosn't know what he is saying or doing, but to those lads that are sober irish girls don't be such b*tches and give the lads a break. Put yourself in a man's shoes, and imagine if that was you trying to talk to a man

RedXIV

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

As I said before, if this was said against an ethnic minority group, this would not be tolerated in PI. What's the story???

probably because most of the attacks on ethnic minorities are unjustified and full of hate. Most of this thread is about men and their experiences. I'm not saying all women are horrible, my girlfriend and I met in a pub and she was a saint. But for every one girl i meet who is polite, i meet three who aren't

lydabryant

That's coz they are affraid of women.. it really depends on the aura of the girl if she's showing too much or not at all.

Wagon

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

As I said before, if this was said against an ethnic minority group, this would not be tolerated in PI. What's the story???

Generalising and abusing ethnic groups is normally racism. Hence people should get banned in that case. But saying that you hate approaching women cos most of them from the island have their finger in their hole isn't racism, it's fact.

Eve_Dublin

RedXIV wrote: »

probably because most of the attacks on ethnic minorities are unjustified and full of hate. Most of this thread is about men and their experiences. I'm not saying all women are horrible, my girlfriend and I met in a pub and she was a saint. But for every one girl i meet who is polite, i meet three who aren't

Absolutely. I agree that MOST of the threads on this post are from personal experiences BUT read back on this thread again...some of the comments are sexist and borderline misogynistic. There's people in here making sweeping generalisation about Irish women and calling them insulting names. One comment like that in PI is one comment too many People can only talk from personal experience and that's fine, i've a fair few stories about my experiences with Irish men over the years but I would never come on here and proclaim that all Irish men are b****s as some people have done on this thread. I find them offensive and hurtful and I'm sure a lot of other Irish women reading this feel the same. I thought After Hours was the place for this kind of debate?

Anyway, too early in the morning to be adorning my feminist hat...back to work.

speedboatchase

Well I'd refrain from personal abuse and generalisations, unless you consider saying the "majority" of irish women in nightclubs are up themselves, I'm not saying that all are (thank god) but is definitely is the general feeling of most Irish males I'd say. I honestly think there's a minority of women who just go out to knock back fellas to build up their self esteem, then go home alone feeling completely smug

LegacyUser

RedXIV wrote: »

probably because most of the attacks on ethnic minorities are unjustified and full of hate. Most of this thread is about men and their experiences. I'm not saying all women are horrible, my girlfriend and I met in a pub and she was a saint. But for every one girl i meet who is polite, i meet three who aren't

Many of the same attacks on minorities involve a small number of people extrapolating from their own unfortunate and anomalous experiences to make sweeping generalisations about a much larger group. Sounds a lot like this thread.

There are plenty of fairly vitriolic posts here from men who have skewed viewpoints based on past experiences. It's not that they weren't treated unfairly. But the generalisations are equally unfair. Saying something is "a fact" doesn't make it so.

Calling Irish women abrasive and horrible and then treating them the same way doesn't reflect well on Irish men either.

Wibbs

I would agree that generalisations can be bloody dubious and personally I haven't gotten the kind of responses that many of the men here have, though I have had some and I have certainly seen it in action with others.

I would say that there does seem to be an underlying issue here, on both sides. More than I noticed in my youth that's for sure. And it is on both sides IMHO. Though I would take the tack that it's slightly more on the men's side TBH. Too many men take a knock back badly or don't make an effort in the first place, or seem to think every woman they like the look of is special way before she proves herself. They then go OTT the wrong way and it can become a self fulfilling prophecy.

I am not denying that there are women who are absolute morons when it comes to this stuff and I can well understand why men will end up feeling crappy about this. As I say I have seen it, but it really does depend on your approach to life as a man. The more open you are, the more boundaries you have and act upon, the less crap you will get and take. I see it as a bitch filter. If they act ill mannered or stupid, well then they lose out. Not me.

Eve_Dublin

nicegirl wrote: »

The fact of the matter is that most irish girls are complete b*tches, and thank god i am not one of them. I get on better with lads any day of the week, and only genuinely nice girls that are my friends. Irish girls are cocky, love themselves, and there are only a very few nice irish girls out there. Its so sterotypical that a man goes to chat up a girl but if it was the other way around.....my god the massacre on this forum.
Irish girls need to wake up, and actually take notice of a man, and realise it takes alot of courage to talk to a girl. :mad:If a man is drunk, fair enough he dosn't know what he is saying or doing, but to those lads that are sober irish girls don't be such b*tches and give the lads a break. Put yourself in a man's shoes, and imagine if that was you trying to talk to a man

That's not a particularly "nice" thing to say, Nicegirl. I'm sorry you've had terrible experiences with Irish girls in the past but that's your view. I disagree. I've met plenty of cows in other counrties too, plenty of dagger eyes if so much as walked within a one mile radius of their boyfriends, the kind of behaviour that men are blind to and only women can see. Sometimes we're our own worst enemy and this kind of statement ^ does none of us any good. A bit of solidarity would be nice. You had a post recently where you had an issue with a guy you liked, went out on a few dates with and never called you. If a man posted the same thing on this forum, SOME men would come on here saying how typical this was of Irish women and what a pack of vain, arrogant b****s we were. Sweeping generalisations like this are pure ignorant and stupid and the person only comes across and bigoted and bitter. I find them depressing as hell.

Sorry, just to add, female to female relationships are much more complex than mens but this is a seperate discussion, a feminist discussion. I too find men much easier to talk to initially and have found that this is case, wherever I've been, that getting to know a female as a female takes a bit more time to break down those barriers that we've put up for ourselves but are generally worth it. I've loads of Irish female friends who I adore. I'm sorry this is not the case for you, Nicegirl.

O'Coonassa

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

the kind of behaviour that men are blind to and only women can see.

lol, oh we notice alright don't think for one second we don't. Even when we were children that's how the girls were. That's also one of the reasons why we didn't like them and put worms in their hair