Greenfield kilkenny

jaymla627 · 17-09-2013 7:43pm #1

Was having a look at their weekly notes, kinda amused when I seen the number of cows in milk this week which was 260, they had 338 at one stage in milk at the end of may milking think over 60 cows have been culled/sold/died going from their notes.
Its fair to say that for all the stuff teagasc spout out it seems they couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery.

Dont be daft · 17-09-2013 7:59pm

They say if you asked a committee to draw a horse it'd look like a camel.
Too many chiefs and not enough Indians down there I suspect.
By the way Jackie shytes on you'd swear he owned the place lock, stock and barrel.

That and a stocking rate target plucked out of their arses at day one.

Having said all that it is an interesting project.

whelan1 · 17-09-2013 8:17pm

jaymla627 wrote: »

Was having a look at their weekly notes, kinda amused when I seen the number of cows in milk this week which was 260, they had 338 at one stage in milk at the end of may milking think over 60 cows have been culled/sold/died going from their notes.
Its fair to say that for all the stuff teagasc spout out it seems they couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery.

where can you look at their weekly notes?

jaymla627 · 17-09-2013 8:20pm

Dont be daft wrote: »

They say if you asked a committee to draw a horse it'd look like a camel.
Too many chiefs and not enough Indians down there I suspect.
By the way Jackie shytes on you'd swear he owned the place lock, stock and barrel.

That and a stocking rate target plucked out of their arses at day one.

Having said all that it is an interesting project.

Sure his missus is over-seeing the whole project I hear they sleep on a bed of grass at night;)
Its interesting in the sense that teagasc with all their so called expertise cant seem to run a large scale dairy herd properly, I know they keep going on about the drought down there but at current milk prices it would actually pay quiet well to buy-in feed and keep those cows in milk proberbly at least 10 cent a litre would be the margin over feed even if all feed was bought-in at current milk prices.

jaymla627 · 17-09-2013 8:22pm

whelan1 wrote: »

where can you look at their weekly notes?

http://www.greenfielddairy.ie/

delaval · 17-09-2013 9:31pm

jaymla627 wrote: »

Was having a look at their weekly notes, kinda amused when I seen the number of cows in milk this week which was 260, they had 338 at one stage in milk at the end of may milking think over 60 cows have been culled/sold/died going from their notes.
Its fair to say that for all the stuff teagasc spout out it seems they couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery.

17% culled is what I make it.
900 kg ms or ha to date and some time to go
10% empty with all AI in 12 wks
82% of heifers calving in 6 wks next spring

What's wrong with that performance?

jersey101 · 17-09-2013 9:40pm

will they pick up another 300kgs of ms in 2 months. I reckon not

Milked out · 17-09-2013 9:46pm

Not much at all wrong with those figure, I'm sure with regard to their stocking rate they said earlier they would have to buy in more of their winter feed. Have they a fixed quota?? I ask as they do treat concentrates as something to avoid when at these prices it would def give a response, particularly if grass is tight due to drought etc. and going post 2015 the decision on whether to feed conc. will be totally dependant on the economic response or weather/ feed situations. also once culls are milking well and there is feed for them they could be kept milking while at grass at least, unless covers need to be built, etc.

jaymla627 · 17-09-2013 9:56pm

delaval wrote: »

17% culled is what I make it.
900 kg ms or ha to date and some time to go
10% empty with all AI in 12 wks
82% of heifers calving in 6 wks next spring

What's wrong with that performance?[/QUOon

I think you forgot to add on the 38 late calving cows they decided not to breed and didn't add into their figures to make it look good the proper not in-calf rate is 20% if the 338 cows are taken into account , where you are going with your 10% not in-calf rate is laughable when you"ve said yourself the culling rate is 17% and will probably be far higher come years end.
If had 338 cows milking at the end of may and only had 260 milking in September id be giving myself the p 45 and if I was managing the place would fully expect to be shown the door, it seems x-breds cant even hack that place.

mahoney_j · 17-09-2013 10:08pm

Been at greenfield a number of times and its a fantastic farm,But its run by a bunch of lazy incompetent tegasc buffs who as i keep harping on about are ramming the kiwi way regardless.More lazy advice.I really feel sorry for the farm manager as he seems like a very nice guy who really knows his stuff but is treated like a relief milker.
They are afraid of their asses to feed meal until it gets too late,Have the farm too highly stocked,Big issues with soil organic matter and its unable to grow the required ammount of grass to keep grass into cows through grazing and also to feed cows through winter.They have been feeding slage for the last 10 days and are going to have a big shortgage for the winter.Yes the production figures are good but whats the point in having figures like that if you have to dry off/cull in september.I know i keep harping on about this but it is an irish farm not a kiwi farm and if that farm was stocked with 50/50 holstein/british freisan cross ainmals with all the so called expertise those existing figures would be beaten,Even at the nos that they are at now and not the 330 odd they were at.They really need to learn to walk before they run in that place.

jersey101 · 17-09-2013 10:14pm

The way everything has happened in the Greenfield's we have gone through in the last 9 yrs. Were only starting to make an impact now on organic matter and p and k and we didnt have the money they had we just about had the money to buy and build a parlour

poor farmer · 17-09-2013 10:34pm

The are feeding 5kg nuts/cow at the minute ,and have been for the last three weeks.

keep going · 17-09-2013 11:10pm

To be fair I think the big lesson learned in kk is that if you farm within nitrates you will have nothing

Farmer Pudsey · 17-09-2013 11:38pm

Lads the one thing that is common between Greenfields and Derrypatrick is that Teagasc cannot run a commercial operation. They get too caught up in theory. In managing any system it is flexibility that wins.

The old saying that it is not the strongest or brightest that will survive rather those that adapt best. On one hand it is great it is really showing farmers what not to do. Some people here are blaming cow type selected when rather it is the management program that is the issue.

Look at there fixation with outwintering pads when at present concrete is cheaper. Not to mind if they got an inspection it might fail. One thing I notice in suckling and dairying cow type is not the issue that makes a farm successful it is the land and stock management that counts.

Is there not another dairy operation like this that is privately managed how is he getting on I think he was under pressure as well. The cull rate on both Derrypatrick and Greenfields is crazy as are the idoligical stands taken and the unwillingness to adapt

bob charles · 17-09-2013 11:43pm

keep going wrote: »

To be fair I think the big lesson learned in kk is that if you farm within nitrates you will have nothing

I dont accept this as a major problem with growing grass. maybe they need to get smarter with there applications and get better responses.

Are the cows outwintered on woodchip?

17-09-2013 11:44pm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Lads the one thing that is common between Greenfields and Derrypatrick is that Teagasc cannot run a commercial operation. They get too caught up in theory. In managing any system it is flexibility that wins.

The old saying that it is not the strongest or brightest that will survive rather those that adapt best. On one hand it is great it is really showing farmers what not to do. Some people here are blaming cow type selected when rather it is the management program that is the issue.

Look at there fixation with outwintering pads when at present concrete is cheaper. Not to mind if they got an inspection it might fail. One thing I notice in suckling and dairying cow type is not the issue that makes a farm successful it is the land and stock management that counts.

Is there not another dairy operation like this that is privately managed how is he getting on I think he was under pressure as well. The cull rate on both Derrypatrick and Greenfields is crazy as are the idoligical stands taken and the unwillingness to adapt

if they done the thing half right they should have surplus stock to sell off every year

TEAT SQUEEZER · 17-09-2013 11:52pm

jaymla627 wrote: »

Sure his missus is over-seeing the whole project I hear they sleep on a bed of grass at night;)
Its interesting in the sense that teagasc with all their so called expertise cant seem to run a large scale dairy herd properly, I know they keep going on about the drought down there but at current milk prices it would actually pay quiet well to buy-in feed and keep those cows in milk proberbly at least 10 cent a litre would be the margin over feed even if all feed was bought-in at current milk prices.

have never met as straight talking and informative a teagasc specialist as abigail ryan.. tought this dumb sh ite how to measure grass for one thing. said 5 years ago to us at a discuss meeting that not many if any farm at 3lu/ha could cut enough silage within its own gates . could be time the head guys took heed:rolleyes:

delaval · 18-09-2013 12:26am

TEAT SQUEEZER wrote: »

have never met as straight talking and informative a teagasc specialist as abigail ryan.. tought this dumb sh ite how to measure grass for one thing. said 5 years ago to us at a discuss meeting that not many if any farm at 3lu/ha could cut enough silage within its own gates . could be time the head guys took heed:rolleyes:

Well said previous comments about her grossly unfair. She is one of the best in the country. Unfortunately has to work in the confines of a committee system.

Have to agree with Mahoney. I know the manager well and he is top class and it needs to be left to himself and Abigail, they are well capable of managing this business. Two very practical people who can if allowed adapt.

On an aside we ain't too far away from there and I notice a lot if in calf heifers being brought in for lack of grass. I'd say two more weeks and ours will follow today's rain may stretch it a bit.

Would somebody tell them to put in feeders in the parlour or else get one of the Moorepark heads to shovel it to the cows!!

TEAT SQUEEZER · 18-09-2013 12:33am

delaval wrote: »

Well said previous comments about her grossly unfair. She is one of the best in the country. Unfortunately has to work in the confines of a committee system.

Have to agree with Mahoney. I know the manager well and he is top class and it needs to be left to himself and Abigail, they are well capable of managing this business. Two very practical people who can if allowed adapt.

On an aside we ain't too far away from there and I notice a lot if in calf heifers being brought in for lack of grass. I'd say two more weeks and ours will follow today's rain may stretch it a bit.

Would somebody tell them to put in feeders in the parlour or else get one of the Moorepark heads to shovel it to the cows!!

of all the things this takes the pis s ... how can any highly stocked farm expect to go through a season and not have to feed meal to smooth the bumps alongg the way.. their is no way young ,smaller cows are getting their fair share of grub under the current ahem "system"

delaval · 18-09-2013 12:44am

I don't think they're learning any lessons but we are that's for sure. One things for sure you can't farm to a recipe

keep going · 18-09-2013 1:22am

bob charles wrote: »

I dont accept this as a major problem with growing grass. maybe they need to get smarter with there applications and get better responses.

Are the cows outwintered on woodchip?

I there last autumn and the farm is starved.if it was mine id be loading the place with nitrogen and any kind of slurry I could get.however that is not an option for them.yes there have been errors made there some were ongoing but there is absolutly no doubt in mlnd that the land is starved and is not growing its potential and in dry weather as this year was it was disastrous

delaval · 18-09-2013 7:55am

They are putting up their figures for all to see warts and all.

A good few talking heads here not displaying anything and that's fine, so very hard to read some of the posts when one has no idea how they're doing themselves. Mistakes have been made and that's what the trial is about.
This year no growth till June none in July and middling growth till now. Anyone who thinks this was a good grass year on dry land is seriously deluding themselves.
One thing for sure is that the people on the ground should be left alone by the suits to get on with it

delaval · 18-09-2013 7:58am

jaymla627 wrote: »

Sure his missus is over-seeing the whole project I hear they sleep on a bed of grass at night;)
Its interesting in the sense that teagasc with all their so called expertise cant seem to run a large scale dairy herd properly, I know they keep going on about the drought down there but at current milk prices it would actually pay quiet well to buy-in feed and keep those cows in milk proberbly at least 10 cent a litre would be the margin over feed even if all feed was bought-in at current milk prices.

Could you post your figures so we can see how to do it. It's real easy to make personal jibes from a position where nobody knows how you are performing

jaymla627 · 18-09-2013 8:53am

delaval wrote: »

Could you post your figures so we can see how to do it. It's real easy to make personal jibes from a position where nobody knows how you are performing

six week calving rate next year 80%
90% heifers will calved by the 25 feb
current milk per cow sent in as of today 4,050 litres with an average of 3.9 bf 3.35 p with 40 out of 55 being 1st calvers with around 900 kg of meal fed to date .
current yield 16.5 litres at 4.2 bf and 3.65p on 2 kg of meal with an afc as of today of 1000kg/dm ha.
Predicted culling rate will be around 10-15%, with not incalf rate unknown as cows where scanned back in july and final scan isnt till next week.

delaval · 18-09-2013 9:05am

jaymla627 wrote: »

six week calving rate next year 80%
90% heifers will calved by the 25 feb
current milk per cow sent in as of today 4,050 litres with an average of 3.9 bf 3.35 p with 40 out of 55 being 1st calvers with around 900 kg of meal fed to date .
current yield 16.5 litres at 4.2 bf and 3.65p on 2 kg of meal with an afc as of today of 1000kg/dm ha.
Predicted culling rate will be around 10-15%, with not incalf rate unknown as cows where scanned back in july and final scan isnt till next week.

Very similar to Greenfield. What's you sr? You're building good covers, struggling to get over 1000 here

jaymla627 · 18-09-2013 9:14am

delaval wrote: »

Very similar to Greenfield. What's you sr? You're building good covers, struggling to get over 1000 here

2.5h over the whole farm and 3.5 on the grazing block would never go over 2.5 overall as we tend to get 4-5 month winters here normally and always need to be banking plenty of wraps when surpluses occur along with two cuts of silage being took of 40% of total area farmed.

Markcheese · 18-09-2013 9:17am

keep going wrote: »

I there last autumn and the farm is starved.if it was mine id be loading the place with nitrogen and any kind of slurry I could get.however that is not an option for them.yes there have been errors made there some were ongoing but there is absolutly no doubt in mlnd that the land is starved and is not growing its potential and in dry weather as this year was it was disastrous

Is this not the point of an experiment/demo farm ?? Hopefully they'll tweak the system to show what stocking level/productivity that farm type has

JohnBoy · 18-09-2013 9:51am

Markcheese wrote: »

Is this not the point of an experiment/demo farm ??

EXACTLY!!!!!

This is not a real farm, it's a research project, designed to test a theory.

there's no point tweaking, changing and adjusting the system constantly, because then all you get is a test of a manager. this is a test of a cow type/milking system, not a test of a farm manager.

It's research.

Remember they started at zero. all bought in stock, all new build, new grass, new everything. It's supposed to be a test of a concept of converting from tillage to dairy in 2015. not an example of how to run an existing dairy farm.

And personally I dont think they're doing all that badly at all. with everything fully costed inc land and labour, and big debts to repay they are relatively on schedule financially are they not?

delaval · 18-09-2013 10:11am

JohnBoy wrote: »

EXACTLY!!!!!

This is not a real farm, it's a research project, designed to test a theory.

there's no point tweaking, changing and adjusting the system constantly, because then all you get is a test of a manager. this is a test of a cow type/milking system, not a test of a farm manager.

It's research.

Remember they started at zero. all bought in stock, all new build, new grass, new everything. It's supposed to be a test of a concept of converting from tillage to dairy in 2015. not an example of how to run an existing dairy farm.

And personally I dont think they're doing all that badly at all. with everything fully costed inc land and labour, and big debts to repay they are relatively on schedule financially are they not?

Sorry I can't thank twice

Farmer Pudsey · 18-09-2013 11:06am

JohnBoy generally if you have an experiment you also use a control section to work off. In this case it might have been practical to fit meal feeders and see the effect that this had on milk produced on part of the herd. You could also have the herd split into a standard Fresians and use hybrid crosses to test hybrid vigour.

I think that a lot of the complaints and derrypatrick could be added to this is there unwillingness to admit that two-three years into these projects that some things may not work such as very high stocking rates on a grass only system. You can push the boat so far after that you have to either start the engine or use the oars or else you are going no where.

jaymla627 · 18-09-2013 11:25am

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

JohnBoy generally if you have an experiment you also use a control section to work off. In this case it might have been practical to fit meal feeders and see the effect that this had on milk produced on part of the herd. You could also have the herd split into a standard Fresians and use hybrid crosses to test hybrid vigour.

I think that a lot of the complaints and derrypatrick could be added to this is there unwillingness to admit that two-three years into these projects that some things may not work such as very high stocking rates on a grass only system. You can push the boat so far after that you have to either start the engine or use the oars or else you are going no where.

Sure thats what the workers are for, if the lads working there werent on such a good wedge salary wise coupled with the fact the job market isnt to exciting in Ireland theyd proberly be on their 3 our 4 herd manager at this stage, go to the uk/new zealand/australia where their is a shortage of skilled lads and drop the set-up like kilkenny in the middle of it youd find they would get it very hard to keep staff.

Greenfield kilkenny

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