Greenfield kilkenny

stanflt

Jaysys lads cut them some slack

They started with nothing yet in a couple of years they will own 500 lu

Can't see any fault in that


They show all figures

Nothing's hidden

For all the people knocking what's been done I've a question for ya - could you see yourself having 500 extra livestock units in 10 years and if not why not
Maybe your system isn't profitable

Ps I'm.a winter milk quy who thinks they are doing a great job as I see what they are doing will only help me to expand in years to come

JohnBoy

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

JohnBoy generally if you have an experiment you also use a control section to work off. In this case it might have been practical to fit meal feeders and see the effect that this had on milk produced on part of the herd. You could also have the herd split into a standard Fresians and use hybrid crosses to test hybrid vigour.

In a small scale study that's exactly the type of thing you'd do, and that's the type of thing they do test in moorepark, subtle variations on a theme with different groups doing different things.

Greenfields is about putting the result of that type of research into practice in a whole farm situation. They think this is the way to go, so now they're trying to prove it. And to be fair to them, when things dont go their way they seem to have been fairly open about it. Did they not basically admit last year that the standoff pads were a mistake? but they dont have the money in the kitty to get away from them right now so they're stuck with them.

I think that a lot of the complaints and derrypatrick could be added to this is there unwillingness to admit that two-three years into these projects that some things may not work such as very high stocking rates on a grass only system. You can push the boat so far after that you have to either start the engine or use the oars or else you are going no where.

Something to bear in mind 2-3 years in is that this is a 15 year project. it's maybe a bit soon to be doing interim reviews.

Farmer Pudsey

Testing a theory is grand however in a fifteen year project you have to adapt. I bought land 10 years ago yes I made mistakes but I adapted fast. My point is that in a 15 year project if after 2-3 years somthing is not working you adapt to commercial realties.

If somthing will not work then it wont work you scale back or scale up, you add cost or reduce cost. I am not saying to jump from one thing to the next what I am saying is there is no harm making a mistake but it is a totally different to keep making the same mistake.

The one good thing is that now when the revenue comissioners come calling or the fella at work is slagging about all the money farmers make we can point to Greenfields and Derrypatrick.:)

Going forward...

Since when do you need to have credentials to criticize or have an opinion on them on here? They're not above criticism, they're out there to be judged but since they're transparent with their work(imagine that? a research farm) we're supposed to tip our hat to them and ignore things we feel are being done poorly?

bob charles

stanflt wrote: »

Jaysys lads cut them some slack

They started with nothing yet in a couple of years they will own 500 lu

Nothing's hidden

For all the people knocking what's been done I've a question for ya - could you see yourself having 500 extra livestock units in 10 years and if not why not
Maybe your system isn't profitable

Ps I'm.a winter milk quy who thinks they are doing a great job as I see what they are doing will only help me to expand in years to come

Was this not a JV with IFJ,glanbia,_ _ _ ponying up the money? I bet there is allot hidden, like a certain research farm that used to get unrecorded loads of brewers etc for independent trailing and forgetting to account for it at demo days.
How much stuff was put into the greenfield farm at a loss for advertising purposes. I recall being told about someone that was trying to buy the same bulk tank as in KK that was price in project €16k. Got onto the company and the price was €26k:D:D.

did I not read on here that they were going breaking the law with P applications??

Remember that these lads making a balls of things are probably helping the farmers. If they showed that all costs could be covered for 20c a litre I can assure you the milk processors would be very impressed

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

This year no growth till June none in July and middling growth till now. Anyone who thinks this was a good grass year on dry land is seriously deluding themselves.

Ah come on Delaval, you were showing serious pictures of grass growth in the early grazing season. since its dried up obviously not but in drought appetite is suppressed anyway.

I was talking to a mate who is a nutritionists yesterday and his best performing herd financially have being on 8kgs of meal all year. He says a good few of his herds are moving indoors which I taught was surprising but all the guys he is dealing with would be sharp operators who I presume have there sums done.

jersey101

bob charles wrote: »

Was this not a JV with IFJ,glanbia,_ _ _ ponying up the money? I bet there is allot hidden, like a certain research farm that used to get unrecorded loads of brewers etc for independent trailing and forgetting to account for it at demo days.
How much stuff was put into the greenfield farm at a loss for advertising purposes. I recall being told about someone that was trying to buy the same bulk tank as in KK that was price in project €16k. Got onto the company and the price was €26k:D:D.

did I not read on here that they were going breaking the law with P applications??

Remember that these lads making a balls of things are probably helping the farmers. If they showed that all costs could be covered for 20c a litre I can assure you the milk processors would be very impressed

my father said the same thing about the tank. We priced a 12k tanl and it was 22k

bob charles

They are lucky they are in a dairy system where money is easier made. Imagine the disaster if it was a tillage or beef finishing farm. They would be loosing money hand over fist

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

Ah come on Delaval, you were showing serious pictures of grass growth in the early grazing season. since its dried up obviously not but in drought appetite is suppressed anyway.

I was talking to a mate who is a nutritionists yesterday and his best performing herd financially have being on 8kgs of meal all year. He says a good few of his herds are moving indoors which I taught was surprising but all the guys he is dealing with would be sharp operators who I presume have there sums done.

When grass grew it grew very well but when it didn't it really didn't. A lot was put into bales as when it grew well it couldn't all be grazed only to be fed back out. Luckily we have enough feed saved. Growth figures are good on an annual view but month lots of spikes and troughs. One good thing is that utilisation was excellent.

Regarding your mate 'what else would he say?' No notion of doing that here been there done it even milked 3 times a day and had the diet feeder and loads of toys. Never again, well never is a long time.
Really pleased to have changed farm and system.

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

Regarding your mate 'what else would he say?' No notion of doing that here been there done it even milked 3 times a day and had the diet feeder and loads of toys. Never again, well never is a long time.
Really pleased to have changed farm and system.

Guys where I talking about would be farming allot more difficult land than your beach:), have you test much grass this year? didnt do as many test as normal this year but on the whole energy figure have being disastrous for some reason. even when there was good growth and good looking covers of grass. strange one.

mf240

Going on the greenfield research it's hard to see an existing tillage farmer with no dairy experience making a go of a large scale conversion.

Interesting project none the less.

jersey101

Sowed 40acres of stubble in grass today. Let ye know how it goes lad coming with bulk spreader in the moring to spread fert on it. Have another 35 to do in the spring

stanflt

jersey101 wrote: »

Sowed 40acres of stubble in grass today. Let ye know how it goes lad coming with bulk spreader in the moring to spread fert on it. Have another 35 to do in the spring

Great what was the procedure

Sowed 8 acres on Monday - ring rolled power harrow twice and air seeder then ring rolled again

Another 30 acres to go on sat- got lime spread today

Dont be daft

Something that's said over and over again is that its a research project and its good that its making mistakes.

Its not. Teagasc have a research facility in Moorepark. The Greenfield farm is not a research facility but rather Teagasc practicing what they preach. Its a commercial farm who's sole aim is to make money using the expertise and findings of Moorepark. The fact that it has private equity partners is a clear indication of this.
Therefore if it fails to perform commercially it has failed full stop and any research or lessons learned are secondary.

Its a point worth making that the overall approach taken by the Greenfield farm is the one often being regurgitated by Teagasc advisors to Irish farmers. So if a certain aspect of the Greenfield project fails then the advise behind it is flawed.
The stocking rate is a clear example. I know of several farms which followed the Teagasc mantra of 1.2 cows per acre (or what ever it may have been). They spent thousands rearing replacements to build up to that, only to get caught out and ended up culling hard to straighten the place out afterwards. Those farms paid the price for flawed theory.


Like I said from the outset its a very interesting project and where else would you see such open discussion and disclosure about the financial and management particulars of a dairy herd.
But its only right that it be analysed and, if deserving, criticized. Because ultimately if Teagasc can't look after their own shop, what business have they telling everyone else how to look after their's.

jersey101

stanflt wrote: »

Great what was the procedure

Sowed 8 acres on Monday - ring rolled power harrow twice and air seeder then ring rolled again

Another 30 acres to go on sat- got lime spread today

got disced twice with a mounted disc harrow has a roller/crunbler at the back and then sowed with a einbock that has a seed barrow on top. Borrowed that off a friend. Will roll after it gets rain.

What grass variety did you sow?

maxxuumman

stanflt wrote: »

Great what was the procedure

Sowed 8 acres on Monday - ring rolled power harrow twice and air seeder then ring rolled again

Another 30 acres to go on sat- got lime spread today

Stan, why did you ring roll before. To slice the ground? Same as discing before power harrowing ?

Edit: engaged brain, you're putting it into stubble ground. Okay

keep going

bob charles wrote: »

Ah come on Delaval, you were showing serious pictures of grass growth in the early grazing season. since its dried up obviously not but in drought appetite is suppressed anyway.

I was talking to a mate who is a nutritionists yesterday and his best performing herd financially have being on 8kgs of meal all year. He says a good few of his herds are moving indoors which I taught was surprising but all the guys he is dealing with would be sharp operators who I presume have there sums done.

Whats a nutritionist , are they the fellas that sell diet feeders

bob charles

keep going wrote: »

Whats a nutritionist , are they the fellas that sell diet feeders

I dont think so, grass is this guys main area, and trying balancing inconsistencies during the grazing season. Its one area we are really lacking in, is dietary knowledge of the ruminant. I have only know of one probably 2 guys who know what they are talking about in Ireland. head to other EU countries and the knowledge some of them have is unreal

delaval

keep going wrote: »

Whats a nutritionist , are they the fellas that sell diet feeders

No but they cost 40k and you get a free feeder

keep going

bob charles wrote: »

I dont think so, grass is this guys main area, and trying balancing inconsistencies during the grazing season. Its one area we are really lacking in, is dietary knowledge of the ruminant. I have only know of one probably 2 guys who know what they are talking about in Ireland. head to other EU countries and the knowledge some of them have is unreal

Funnily enough I have been feeding straw with a week or so because their dung was fierce scoury on the current grass.if theday is dry I dont feed itbut give them a bale a wet day and at around 13 or 14cent a kilo its not bad.I always feed a good bit in the autumn as I feel it helps them utilize the grass better.am I one of the one or two guys that what they are talking about, didnt think so-only messing

awaywithyou

delaval wrote: »

When grass grew it grew very well but when it didn't it really didn't. A lot was put into bales as when it grew well it couldn't all be grazed only to be fed back out. Luckily we have enough feed saved. Growth figures are good on an annual view but month lots of spikes and troughs. One good thing is that utilisation was excellent.

Regarding your mate 'what else would he say?' No notion of doing that here been there done it even milked 3 times a day and had the diet feeder and loads of toys. Never again, well never is a long time.
Really pleased to have changed farm and system.

what was your profit margin per cow like compared to your current system of farming???

why never again.... what was wrong with it? we've a diet feeder with 20 yrs and funnily enough dad wouldnt miss it whereas i swear by it....

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

No but they cost 40k and you get a free feeder

Do keenan actually employee a nutritionist with qualifications and letters after their name?:rolleyes: maybe one or two

delaval

awaywithyou wrote: »

what was your profit margin per cow like compared to your current system of farming???

why never again.... what was wrong with it? we've a diet feeder with 20 yrs and funnily enough dad wouldnt miss it whereas i swear by it....

Nothing wrong with diet feeder, really good tool in that system. We used it a lot and great control with diets.
I was on a small but of land with a lot if quota so had to milk 3 times for one year. I was also zgrazing for most if the 90's. if I was confined with land would prob still be at it with the exception of zgrazing. I would use bales instead.
Margin per cow was good.
I moved to a much larger farm that was rented so margin per ha became my goal. Land being my limiting factor. My profit and free cash is greater now, the system suits me better.

I just found the old system relentless with great cash flow but I wasn't able to shake off a hard core of debt that had built up through capex. My level of management probably wasn't up to speed enough for the cows I had. I am into a larger herd now where it's easier to adopt a one size fits all approach.

So what I'm basically saying is that I was actually the weakest link not the cow or the system!!!!

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

I moved to a much larger farm that was rented so margin per ha became my goal. Land being my limiting factor. My profit and free cash is greater now, the system suits me better.

I just found the old system relentless with great cash flow but I wasn't able to shake off a hard core of debt that had built up through capex.

allot of the full time land restricted farmers could write that paragraph.

The main decision maker on most farms nowadays it the supply of land.

journalman

if ye want to see commercial farms under scrutiny, look at the better beef farms, some have dug themselves out of right holes this year with regards fodder n grass problems and still managed to keep a high stocking rate (2.5 LU-3 LU/ha) and make more than enough silage. These are commercial farms working under cashflow constraints and are still not running out of grass mid season. granted they intorduce meal and buffer feed with silage but that is all part of working with what you got rather than what you dont. I know this because i live next to one of them and discuss his progress regualry

Farmer Pudsey

journalman wrote: »

if ye want to see commercial farms under scrutiny, look at the better beef farms, some have dug themselves out of right holes this year with regards fodder n grass problems and still managed to keep a high stocking rate (2.5 LU-3 LU/ha) and make more than enough silage. These are commercial farms working under cashflow constraints and are still not running out of grass mid season. granted they intorduce meal and buffer feed with silage but that is all part of working with what you got rather than what you dont. I know this because i live next to one of them and discuss his progress regualry

In other words when in a hole stop digging

F.D

journalman wrote: »

if ye want to see commercial farms under scrutiny, look at the better beef farms, some have dug themselves out of right holes this year with regards fodder n grass problems and still managed to keep a high stocking rate (2.5 LU-3 LU/ha) and make more than enough silage. These are commercial farms working under cashflow constraints and are still not running out of grass mid season. granted they intorduce meal and buffer feed with silage but that is all part of working with what you got rather than what you dont. I know this because i live next to one of them and discuss his progress regualry

One thing i dont like about the better beef farms is most of them have off farm jobs so technically there not totally reliant on the farm to keep them going..... none of this seems to be stated in the press you read about it
i have been on one of these farms for a discussion group so i know

So how much of there own income pays insurances etc to make the gross margin look better, or how many jobs do they do to make the farm run better that they fund from the off farm job

Farmer Pudsey

F.D wrote: »

One thing i dont like about the better beef farms is most of them have off farm jobs so technically there not totally reliant on the farm to keep them going..... none of this seems to be stated in the press you read about it
i have been on one of these farms for a discussion group so i know

So how much of there own income pays insurances etc to make the gross margin look better, or how many jobs do they do to make the farm run better that they fund from the off farm job

If they are showinf all costs it should be seen in gross margin. Most farmers that have a second job myself as well show all expenses that happen on the farm to the farm. None will pay cash for any item as you end up paying 52% on any profit. So often if these lads have a high margin/HA they would actually be reducing it as much as possible to reduce Tax Liability.

journalman

not all these lads in the better farm prog have off farm jobs, though admitedly some do, ie contracting etc, milk recording etc. The lads with the off farm jobs tend to be on the smaller farms or poorer land types that may have questionable viability in any enterprise. When they do up a profit monitor, all costs are counted for, i.e. insurance, esb, depreciation etc and the farm has to cover it all. Granted an off farm job may help the farm in terms of cashflow at certain times of year when they may not have any sales but the farms are all run as standalone businesses and any costs incurred are fully accounted for so the presence of an off farm job will have no real effect on profitability. From what i gather, the farmers with the off farm jobs generally do less well on a per hectare basis than those without due to time constraints of working off farm.

jaymla627

So 43 cent a litre is the cost of producing a litre of milk this year on the greenfield dairy according to darraghs article today in the independant , "low cost grass based system" is a phrase i dont think teagasc can be throwing around the place anymore when referring to that project.