Michael Lowry guilty

thomond2006 · 26-06-2018 4:17pm

DellyBelly wrote: »

I'll give hime one thing he's brilliant at the political game! Knows how to win people over. He has done a lot for the people of Tip in fairness and that is why he seemed to be loved by them. Will this make any difference..I don't think so. And maybe it shouldn't.

That's the problem right there.

20Cent · 26-06-2018 4:17pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Every year revenue publishes details of people caught with tax avoidance.

There is 100s and they don’t go to jail, why should it be different with Lowry who I am no fan off either btw.

Similar sitiation to the doctor who got 16 months recently. Same judge as well.

Wheeliebin30 · 26-06-2018 4:17pm

Amirani wrote: »

"The jury found that Garuda had knowingly delivered an incorrect corporation tax return for the year ending 2006 and that Mr Lowry had consented to or connived in this."

That's not tax avoidance.

Amounts to the same thing.

cruizer101 · 26-06-2018 4:17pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Every year revenue publishes details of people caught with tax avoidance.

There is 100s and they don’t go to jail, why should it be different with Lowry who I am no fan off either btw.

The amount and the circumstances would have an effect on it.
Its a bit different a sole trader not declaring a could of thousand compared to €372,000 that wasn't declared by Lowry.

I would also argue as a public representative there is an expectation of a higher standard

Wheeliebin30 · 26-06-2018 4:18pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

He is a TD and should be held to a higher standard.

Really?

So one law for the public and another for tds????

I don’t follow.

Wheeliebin30 · 26-06-2018 4:18pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

The amount and the circumstances would have an effect on it.
Its a bit different a sole trader not declaring a could of thousand compared to €372,000 that wasn't declared by Lowry.

I would also argue as a public representative there is an expectation of a higher standard

Tax avoidance is tax avoidance.

ohnonotgmail · 26-06-2018 4:18pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I dont think this is true at all. In fact i would be happy if they were held to the same standard as the rest of us.

ArmaniJeanss · 26-06-2018 4:21pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Every year revenue publishes details of people caught with tax avoidance.

There is 100s and they don’t go to jail, why should it be different with Lowry who I am no fan off either btw.

They are generally people who didn't pay what was owed but didn't defraud as such.
i.e., you buy 100K of widgets off me and I don't pay the VAT in time because I used the money for wages or to keep the business running, two years later it gets published that I owed and paid 23K VAT + 15K penalties.

But if you buy 100K of widgets off me and I try to hide or reduce the invoice or put it through 2021 books rather than this years then its fraud which they bring me to court over.

That's my understanding of 'the difference'.

20Cent · 26-06-2018 4:23pm

15k fine.

Try_harder · 26-06-2018 4:24pm

Judge Martin Nolan: Appropriate sentence for Michael Lowry, taking into account all of the matters raised, fine of 15,000 euro. For Garuda - 10,000 euro.

amcalester · 26-06-2018 4:24pm

€15K fine for Lowry and €10K for Garuda.

cruizer101 · 26-06-2018 4:25pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Tax avoidance is tax avoidance.

No its not, the same way all theft isn't the same.
If someone robs a tv from a shop should they be given the same sentence as someone who steals thousands.
The time served should reflect the level of the crime.
Tax avoidance of 1k is a lot different to tax avoidance for 100k.

Regarding the higher standard for TD fair enough I understand your point not sure I fully agree, ok in this case he didn't necessarily use his position of a td for the crime so maybe it is a bit irrelevant.

Fred Swanson · 26-06-2018 4:25pm

This post has been deleted.

Odelay · 26-06-2018 4:25pm

FFS!

Yer Da sells Avon · 26-06-2018 4:26pm

Michael Lowry? It's always the ones you don't expect...

James Bond Junior · 26-06-2018 4:26pm

Would they do a discount for cash I wonder?

Effects · 26-06-2018 4:26pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Tax avoidance is tax avoidance.

cruizer101 wrote: »

The time served should reflect the level of the crime.
Tax avoidance of 1k is a lot different to tax avoidance for 100k.

Tax avoidance is legal, regardless of the amount.

Sierra Oscar · 26-06-2018 4:26pm

amcalester wrote: »

€15K fine for Lowry and €10K for Garuda.

It looks like no custodial sentence whatsoever. Bit of a joke when you consider the 18 month sentence handed out to Dr Sam Naser for a strikingly similar crime.

ooter · 26-06-2018 4:26pm

https://twitter.com/Orlaodo/status/1011631289689133059?s=19

20Cent · 26-06-2018 4:27pm

Dail expenses for a few months ffs.

JMNolan · 26-06-2018 4:28pm

A completely disproportionate daft sentence from Nolan. Colour me surprised.

Did Lowry commit a sexual crime as well to say he got off scott free?

Birneybau · 26-06-2018 4:29pm

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Michael Lowry? It's always the ones you don't expect...

Martin Nolan? It's always the ones you don't expect...

realdanbreen · 26-06-2018 4:29pm

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Michael Lowry? It's always the ones you don't expect...

How true! I remember when I heard that Mick Wallace had been-shall we say hesitant- about paying in the pension money he had got from his workers- I nearly fainted with surprise!

realdanbreen · 26-06-2018 4:30pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

It looks like no custodial sentence whatsoever. Bit of a joke when you consider the 18 month sentence handed out to Dr Sam Naser for a strikingly similar crime.

I don't believe Dr Sam ever got any potholes fixed in Tipp !

Zebra3 · 26-06-2018 4:30pm

Corrupt kip.

CeilingFly · 26-06-2018 4:31pm

In fairness, he corrected the issue long before tax authorities noticed, so there never was an actual loss to the taxpayer except interest and I believe that and penalties were applied.

And you can't add punishment just because he's a public figure.

ohnonotgmail · 26-06-2018 4:31pm

There were some other, more serious, offences that he was charged with but they were dismissed earlier in the week due to lack evidence.

Ulysses Gaze · 26-06-2018 4:37pm

So a small fine relatively speaking...

Did anyone expect anything less from "Suspended Sentence" Nolan?

Allinall · 26-06-2018 4:39pm

About the right result for relatively minor offenses .

Del.Monte · 26-06-2018 4:39pm

Ten Pin wrote: »

Let's face it, a jail term would only have made a bigger martyr out of him and guarantee his Dail replacement a 99% share of votes next election.

Would hurt him more to have a massive fine imposed but the fine dished out is mere toilet paper to him

He's laughing as he would probably spend more on a new suit.

steddyeddy · 26-06-2018 4:40pm

This decision was based on classism. Nothing more. Something Martin's well known for. Ireland's progressive in some regards but very backward on issues like this.

Zebra3 · 26-06-2018 4:41pm

Ten Pin wrote: »

Let's face it, a jail term would only have made a bigger martyr out of him and guarantee his Dail replacement a 99% share of votes next election.

Would hurt him more to have a massive fine imposed but the fine dished out is mere toilet paper to him

A jail term could’ve seen him lose his seat.

realdanbreen · 26-06-2018 4:42pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

There were some other, more serious, offences that he was charged with but they were dismissed earlier in the week due to lack evidence.

So? Are you suggesting someone should have made up some evidence?

Riva10 · 26-06-2018 4:44pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Or a brown envelope .:D

ohnonotgmail · 26-06-2018 4:44pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

So? Are you suggesting someone should have made up some evidence?

I really no idea what you read before you posted that but it certainly wasnt my post.

realdanbreen · 26-06-2018 4:52pm

Try_harder wrote: »

Judge Martin Nolan: Appropriate sentence for Michael Lowry, taking into account all of the matters raised, fine of 15,000 euro. For Garuda - 10,000 euro.

With the help of God he will get those fines reduced on appeal.

Zebra3 · 26-06-2018 4:55pm

Remember this the next time the FF/FG gangsters tell you that they are tough on crime. :rolleyes:

Del.Monte · 26-06-2018 4:56pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

With the help of God he will get those fines reduced on appeal.

I think that it's the Devil who looks after his own.

jobeenfitz · 26-06-2018 5:20pm

The judge is obviously riding him. What a country!

Wheeliebin30 · 26-06-2018 5:21pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Remember this the next time the FF/FG gangsters tell you that they are tough on crime. :rolleyes:

Yes it’s fg/fgs fault just like everything in this country that’s bad but not good of course.

Amirani · 26-06-2018 5:22pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Remember this the next time the FF/FG gangsters tell you that they are tough on crime. :rolleyes:

Political parties don't decide sentencing. The judge had leeway under legislation to give a custodial sentence up to 5 years.

Del.Monte · 26-06-2018 5:28pm

You've got to hand it to the judge - he described Lowry as being of previous good character. Lol.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/tribunal-told-lowry-tried-to-get-rent-rise-for-ben-dunne-1.1105948

http://www.thejournal.ie/who-is-michael-lowry-2568098-Jan2016/

The fella couldn't lie straight in bed.

relax carry on · 26-06-2018 5:28pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Every year revenue publishes details of people caught with tax avoidance.

There is 100s and they don’t go to jail, why should it be different with Lowry who I am no fan off either btw.

The publication list contains those who met the publication criteria. The list is a fraction of all types of interventions. The vast majority, either through making qualifying disclosures or being under the publication threshold, aren't omn the list.

The list contains cases of tax avoidance and evasion in both the deliberate and careless spheres.

Prosecution cases are a different matter to the publication lists. This was a prosecution case.

Hector Bellend · 26-06-2018 5:28pm

big guilty head on him

Muahahaha · 26-06-2018 5:31pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Amounts to the same thing.

No it does not. Tax evasion is illegal, tax avoidence is not illegal, i.e. the likes of Apple paying 1% taxes while the rest of us PAYE workers get stiffed with 52% is not illegal because it is overseen by our betters in Fine Gael. It is certainly not moral in any type of fair taxation system but thats what we get for electing spineless TDs who undersell Ireland

CeilingFly wrote: »

In fairness, he corrected the issue long before tax authorities noticed, so there never was an actual loss to the taxpayer except interest and I believe that and penalties were applied.

And you can't add punishment just because he's a public figure.

Did he correct the tax shortfall, I havent seen it anywhere either way.

As for there not being an actual loss to the taxpayer- I wouldnt be so sure about that because what he was actually tried on today is likely only the tip of the iceberg with him. What the mainstream media wont be reporting on today is why there was never any investigation to the two laptops that grew legs and walked straight out of Revenue HQ. The laptops contained Lowrys tax details for several years yet somehow they vanished into thin air during a Revenue investigation. Nor will we see any reporting of him calling his undeclared 20 acres of land in Wigan "worthless" but then trying to offload it for 7 odd million to an undercover journalist. When Denis OBrien is your pal it is amazing what stories of public interest can be suppressed. As they say propaganda is not necessarily about the things you are told about, it is more about the things that you arent.

wexie · 26-06-2018 5:31pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

You've got to hand it to the judge - he described Lowry as being of previous good character. Lol.

Well doesn't 'of previously good character' describe pretty much anybody?

Y'know....before they become career criminals like?

relax carry on · 26-06-2018 5:31pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Tax avoidance is tax avoidance.

This was not avoidance. This appears to have been deliberate evasion. There is a difference between avoidance and evasion.

Joshua J · 26-06-2018 5:38pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Corrupt kip.

Yep. There's a senator in Donegal who had an alleged drunken hit and run in 2015. Case has been adjourned 14 times. It amazes me the faith people have in courts/law. Justice is for sale, and is far from blind.

Grayson · 26-06-2018 5:38pm

Amirani wrote: »

Political parties don't decide sentencing. The judge had leeway under legislation to give a custodial sentence up to 5 years.

Yeah. I think the judgement was way too lenient but it's not possible to blame the current government or FF for this. The option existed and the judge didn't take it.

What pissed me off was this

“The proof of the pudding is in the eating. He has been re-elected,” the judge said.

It shouldn't fcuking matter what the people who voted for him think. Public opinion shouldn't determine sentencing. That goes the otherway too. If he was scorned by the whole country that shouldn't indicate an overly harsh sentence.

20Cent · 26-06-2018 5:38pm

Court found he failed to keep proper books from 2002 to 2007 but not guilty of delivering an incorrect income tax return for the year 2002. Great little country to do business in.

Michael Lowry guilty

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