My â‚¬100m BEAM scheme

Sugarbowl · 09-11-2020 5:42pm

Doing some calculations here to see how I’m fixed...
What happens when you have a calf born around the 20th of the month. Will the calf be calculated as being present for a full month or will it just be the 10days of that month?

Base price · 09-11-2020 6:23pm

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Doing some calculations here to see how I’m fixed...
What happens when you have a calf born around the 20th of the month. Will the calf be calculated as being present for a full month or will it just be the 10days of that month?

The 10 days of that month. Same as if you bought in a cow on the 20th of the month.

Aravo · 09-11-2020 9:21pm

If anyone is with Teagasc they have an excel calculator and you can input the ICBF data for each month. So if your under or over you can put in numbers for the future months to see how you will end up. Ask your teagasc advisor.

Lime Tree Farm · 02-12-2020 1:44pm

New BEAM calculator on ICBF website

https://www.icbf.com/wp/?p=16911

bogman_bass · 02-12-2020 1:56pm

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

New BEAM calculator on ICBF website

https://www.icbf.com/wp/?p=16911

Looked at mine last night and without adjusting figures looks like i’m Going to be well over dispite selling stores that I would normally finish

tanko · 02-12-2020 2:33pm

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

New BEAM calculator on ICBF website

https://www.icbf.com/wp/?p=16911

That's a great tool, you can work out exactly what you need to do.
8% under here and will keep it that way.

Bass Reeves · 02-12-2020 2:34pm

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

New BEAM calculator on ICBF website

https://www.icbf.com/wp/?p=16911

Do not trust ICBF nitrates calculator as they tend to not have the same accuracy as department figures

Jack C · 03-12-2020 11:41am

Great tool alright. But bear in mind you have to adjust figures for cattle moving up an age in the months to come.
I initially thought I was grand but realised I'll be way over as all my weanlings will be 1-2 year olds in feb and march.

Lady Haywire · 03-12-2020 3:21pm

Jack C wrote: »

Great tool alright. But bear in mind you have to adjust figures for cattle moving up an age in the months to come.
I initially thought I was grand but realised I'll be way over as all my weanlings will be 1-2 year olds in feb and march.

Don't forget the newborn calves arriving too.
I totted up all ours, then decreased/increased according to age & when we plan to sell three more.
Then what *should* have a calf in which month.

Grueller · 03-12-2020 5:16pm

I am paying it back, that simple. I went through everything completely accurately to the best of my knowledge and would need to sell 40 cows to meet the reduction.
My nitrates have risen drastically due to going dairying as a dairy cow is 89 as against a suckler being 65. Cest la vie, I said at the time I was viewing it as an interest free loan at a time that I needed it. That's the way it has turned out.

DukeCaboom · 03-12-2020 5:46pm

Grueller wrote: »

I am paying it back, that simple. I went through everything completely accurately to the best of my knowledge and would need to sell 40 cows to meet the reduction.
My nitrates have risen drastically due to going dairying as a dairy cow is 89 as against a suckler being 65. Cest la vie, I said at the time I was viewing it as an interest free loan at a time that I needed it. That's the way it has turned out.

In the same boat, will be paying it back, At the time looked at it as a cheap loan.

kk.man · 04-12-2020 12:23am

DukeCaboom wrote: »

In the same boat, will be paying it back, At the time looked at it as a cheap loan.

I'm thinking of paying back mine too. Maxed out with sheep and cattle side of the business doing well despite factory price. If I downsized to keep the Beam I project to loose 4k my beam was 2.8k.

Sami23 · 04-12-2020 11:12am

DukeCaboom wrote: »

In the same boat, will be paying it back, At the time looked at it as a cheap loan.

Same here - anyone know when they will take it back.
Presume they will just dock it from SFP etc

amens · 04-12-2020 5:43pm

9% under here. Had my own spreadsheet calculating nitrates and the icbf one matches pretty closely. I'd say they'll get far more than 5% reduction in general as the penalty is so high for being even a small bit under.

Good loser · 04-12-2020 8:42pm

kk.man wrote: »

I'm thinking of paying back mine too. Maxed out with sheep and cattle side of the business doing well despite factory price. If I downsized to keep the Beam I project to loose 4k my beam was 2.8k.

Find that hard to believe.

Do the maths again. €2800 should represent the profit from 14 plus acres.

Could you get some stock into another herd number for few months?

kk.man · 04-12-2020 11:10pm

Good loser wrote: »

Find that hard to believe.

Do the maths again. €2800 should represent the profit from 14 plus acres.

Could you get some stock into another herd number for few months?

I have a very good net margin consistainly on my cattle enterprise. The figures are correct.

I'd love to get them into another Herd number but I can't see it happening.

sonnybill · 10-12-2020 11:38pm

Where On agfood can you get your reference value to input into Icbf calculator?

tanko · 10-12-2020 11:58pm

sonnybill wrote: »

Where On agfood can you get your reference value to input into Icbf calculator?

Exceptional aid measures on the main menu then select scheme to enter then click on BEAM, click on the circle then.

sonnybill · 11-12-2020 12:59am

I’m well over when you take the calves landing from February onwards , if I do nothing I pay back E360 if I transfer out the rep heifers until after June 30th I be sound but sure Tb test them then to come back. If I cut two cows out that’s 180 gone on the beep

tanko · 11-12-2020 1:04am

There's a rule about artificially creating the conditions to qualify for the payment.
I assume that rules out transferring cattle to another herd and transferring them back in to your herd.

Jb1989 · 11-12-2020 1:12am

sonnybill wrote: »

I’m well over when you take the calves landing from February onwards , if I do nothing I pay back E360 if I transfer out the rep heifers until after June 30th I be sound but sure Tb test them then to come back. If I cut two cows out that’s 180 gone on the beep

Is the beep back for next year at the same money? Otherwise they have no hold on you now for this year's beep cows.

sonnybill · 13-12-2020 3:39pm

tanko wrote: »

There's a rule about artificially creating the conditions to qualify for the payment.
I assume that rules out transferring cattle to another herd and transferring them back in to your herd.

A man can sell six heifers though , change his mind and buy them back fit for bulling, balls of a scheme this one anyway.. it’s feckin the price of cattle too as lads don’t understand it so cutting back 20% and buying lambs instead of weanlings/stores etc

I’d say loads will get caught and give the 100% back

dohc turbo2 · 13-12-2020 7:09pm

I will have to give it back , my previous bull got injured and he was a great replacement bull so I’ve a heap of smashing red heiffers that will make great mothers so maxed out here to try and keep them , as it’s a great opportunity

kk.man · 13-12-2020 9:58pm

Ah sure it was interest free money anyway...I did up a cattle house with it.

Cavanjack · 14-12-2020 12:10am

tanko wrote: »

There's a rule about artificially creating the conditions to qualify for the payment.
I assume that rules out transferring cattle to another herd and transferring them back in to your herd.

I was going down this route too until I saw that a few weeks ago

whelan2 · 14-12-2020 7:11am

My dad is getting out of cattle has sold a few but will still just have a handful left. Would this be ok?

Hurling Hereford · 14-12-2020 7:23pm

Cavanjack wrote: »

I was going down this route too until I saw that a few weeks ago

after the 30th June next year we are free from the BEAM requirements again. amazing the amount of lads that thought BEAM was like the BDGP & was a six year scheme...

Base price · 14-12-2020 8:54pm

whelan2 wrote: »

My dad is getting out of cattle has sold a few but will still just have a handful left. Would this be ok?

From what I understand from the T&C's it's not a problem as long as he keeps to his minimium stocking density relative to his SFP application. However I will stand corrected.
I'm sure that someone with more knowledge of the scheme will hopefully post to advise.

Cavanjack · 14-12-2020 11:53pm

Hurling Hereford wrote: »

after the 30th June next year we are free from the BEAM requirements again. amazing the amount of lads that thought BEAM was like the BDGP & was a six year scheme...

Yeah the rules were easy to understand. Reduce by 5%. Can’t believe some lads still can’t get their head around them.
There should be monthly figures available though to help people keep below the 5%

charolais0153 · 15-12-2020 12:08am

Cavanjack wrote: »

Yeah the rules were easy to understand. Reduce by 5%. Can’t believe some lads still can’t get their head around them.
There should be monthly figures available though to help people keep below the 5%

It's up on 1000 for most lads and 10000 for others and lads don't want to take out the calculator, tells its own story

leoch · 15-12-2020 8:34am

Is it reduce by 5 percent or more as long as u dont go over???.......i will shortly have no cattle as all gone to factory but for 6 and am thinking about not buying any for a month to see how brexit goes will i be ok

wrangler · 15-12-2020 9:09am

leoch wrote: »

Is it reduce by 5 percent or more as long as u dont go over???.......i will shortly have no cattle as all gone to factory but for 6 and am thinking about not buying any for a month to see how brexit goes will i be ok

Is it not a minimum five percent reduction of last years stocking rate over the year based on your nitrates figure, you'd have to work out your own figures, I doubt if anyone can tell you from here

tanko · 15-12-2020 11:46am

leoch wrote: »

Is it reduce by 5 percent or more as long as u dont go over???.......i will shortly have no cattle as all gone to factory but for 6 and am thinking about not buying any for a month to see how brexit goes will i be ok

It's reduce by at least 5%. You could reduce by 100% and you'll be fine for the BEAM scheme afaik. I don't remember seeing anything in the terms and conditions that says you can't do this.

Edit. Just because you have no cattle for one month it doesn't mean you'll automatically achieve the at least 5% reduction. It's calculated over 12 months, if you have too many in the other 11 months you could miss out.

I see the ICSA are looking for changes to the BEAM scheme as its looking like a lot of farmers are going to end up losing the money.

DBK1 · 15-12-2020 12:47pm

Cavanjack wrote: »

Yeah the rules were easy to understand. Reduce by 5%. Can’t believe some lads still can’t get their head around them.
There should be monthly figures available though to help people keep below the 5%

The figures are there on Agfood, it’s very simple really, it’s hard to see how lads can’t figure it out.

If you go to your n and P statement on Agfood, the latest figures bring you to the end of October. Take that figure and subtract the Jan to end of June figure that’s also there. That gives you the July to October figure for this year. Do the exact same thing with the 2018 figures and you have your reference figure. That will tell you straight away how you’re doing.

Repeat every month as the monthly figures are updated. It would be better for the figures to be updated more promptly at the end of the months instead of being 6 to 8 weeks behind alright but you should have a fair idea what way you are.

Grueller · 15-12-2020 3:57pm

DBK1 wrote: »

The figures are there on Agfood, it’s very simple really, it’s hard to see how lads can’t figure it out.

If you go to your n and P statement on Agfood, the latest figures bring you to the end of October. Take that figure and subtract the Jan to end of June figure that’s also there. That gives you the July to October figure for this year. Do the exact same thing with the 2018 figures and you have your reference figure. That will tell you straight away how you’re doing.

Repeat every month as the monthly figures are updated. It would be better for the figures to be updated more promptly at the end of the months instead of being 6 to 8 weeks behind alright but you should have a fair idea what way you are.

That's ok if you haven't changed farming system.

DBK1 · 15-12-2020 4:39pm

Grueller wrote: »

That's ok if you haven't changed farming system.

The system you’re farming is completely irrelevant. The figures from Agfood are the department figures and that’s what the Beam is based on.

Grueller · 15-12-2020 4:50pm

DBK1 wrote: »

The system you’re farming is completely irrelevant. The figures from Agfood are the department figures and that’s what the Beam is based on.

That is correct to be fair. I actually meant to quote a post further up from Charolais0153 about lads not using calculators.

If a lad changed from rearing calves to buying weanlings and carrying them to stores or finish the older stock with higher nitrates would affect this scheme.
I have got a good wedge from it but will be paying it back as I went dairying and the higher nitrates value on a dairy cow means it is almost impossible to meet it. I said at the time and a few pages ago here though that it was an interest free loan while I was building a parlour and I needed the money. Still won't like paying it back though.

Cavanjack · 15-12-2020 11:54pm

Grueller wrote: »

That is correct to be fair. I actually meant to quote a post further up from Charolais0153 about lads not using calculators.

If a lad changed from rearing calves to buying weanlings and carrying them to stores or finish the older stock with higher nitrates would affect this scheme.
I have got a good wedge from it but will be paying it back as I went dairying and the higher nitrates value on a dairy cow means it is almost impossible to meet it. I said at the time and a few pages ago here though that it was an interest free loan while I was building a parlour and I needed the money. Still won't like paying it back though.

For yourself would you not try and put cattle in another herd for a couple of months ( B and

. If it’s a thing they say “you artificially skewed” the figures, all that’ll happen is you’ll lose the money. The same as what you think is going to happen now anyway.
Don’t know if you said what you got earlier but if it was over a few thousand it might be worth your while,
Got 10,000 here so not chancing anything just incase.

minerleague · 15-01-2021 10:24pm

See campaign to get 5% reduction watered down has begun. Will it work??

Grueller · 15-01-2021 11:13pm

minerleague wrote: »

See campaign to get 5% reduction watered down has begun. Will it work??

I would say so. There is a bit ofa political shove on it seems. How far it will be watered is the only doubt.

Robson99 · 15-01-2021 11:47pm

It's not just the fellas who have to cut numbers by 5% that are loosing the weanling / store seller are also loosing as store buyers won't be as active

SuperTortoise · 16-01-2021 12:00am

The 5% reduction was the foot in the door, from here on out we'll be "incentivized" to reduce numbers until there's only the big dairy farms and the the big beef barons left.

ruwithme · 16-01-2021 12:11am

SuperTortoise wrote: »

The 5% reduction was the foot in the door, from here on out we'll be "incentivized" to reduce numbers until there's only the big dairy farms and the the big beef barons left.

Your right,that's the way it's going this long time really. Surely we've got to follow the money.

I'm still waiting on beam 3 though,for cattle hung last autumn at a base as low as €3:60 a kg

jd_12345 · 16-01-2021 12:16am

Lads knew what they were getting into. The herd reduction was clearly stated at the time. Its unfair on the lads that didn't enter it because of the reduction. Stock are going well in the marts- lads are no pity

ruwithme · 16-01-2021 12:23am

I should i think/hope meet the 5%reduction, whoever is campaigning for a change of sorts,shur they may as well ask the question anyway. They powers can only say no at worst

Jack C · 16-01-2021 12:26am

Robson99 wrote: »

It's not just the fellas who have to cut numbers by 5% that are loosing the weanling / store seller are also loosing as store buyers won't be as active

Don't think sellers are loosing out judging by prices being paid for stores or weanlings at the moment...

MIKEKC · 16-01-2021 12:40am

Grueller wrote: »

I would say so. There is a bit ofa political shove on it seems. How far it will be watered is the only doubt.

Can't see it being changed.People knew what they were getting into. A lot of farmers didn't go into scheme because of rules.There would be uproar from these people if the rules were changed..Also from those that reduced stock numbers. Something similar has happened with Glas. For farmers with commonage a plan was drawn up whereby they had to put a certain number of sheep on commonage, most that hadnt sheep already didn't comply yet get paid every year.

Robson99 · 16-01-2021 12:55am

Jack C wrote: »

Don't think sellers are loosing out judging by prices being paid for stores or weanlings at the moment...

They could be making more
Say I buy 100 stores. Have to reduce by 5%
That's probably 10 less cattle that I will bid on in the mart assuming a strike rate of 50%

amens · 16-01-2021 10:01am

ruwithme wrote: »

I should i think/hope meet the 5%reduction, whoever is campaigning for a change of sorts,shur they may as well ask the question anyway. They powers can only say no at worst

They should say no. I culled several cows last year to be well over the 5% reduction. I'll have less calves this spring so less calves to qualify for any scheme like beep and less calves to sell finished in two years time. Why did I do that when I could have just taken the money and not done anything and waited for a 5% reduction to become 4,3,2 or 1%?

Grueller · 16-01-2021 10:17am

Another point is that the factories won't want the stock numbers reduced in the country. Look at what's happening at the moment with price when there is a bit of a scarcity.
2nd point is that there is and will be a market for live cattle due to Brexit. That in itself will make it more politically palatable to scrap plans for a reduction. If there is a few pound being made the tax take rises.
Brexit was meant to be the monster that killed the beef industry but it could, as long as the status quo regards the North lasts, be a saviour by putting serious competition on the factories down here for finished stock. Or am I reading this totally wrong?

My â‚¬100m BEAM scheme

Comments