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RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

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    #752
    fat-tony
    Registered Users Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭fat-tony


    No - if this happens at all, it will be a tightly focused spot beam on the island of Ireland. No good for reception on continental Europe.


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    #753
    eamonpk
    Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭eamonpk


    Hope this isn't another stupid question but when you mention the island of Ireland. I am in the North and can't get the DTT signal so does this mean I will be included in the SaorSat coverage? At the minute I have a Sky+(Ireland) box costing me €24/month as the Sky UK boxes block the football (and TV3) but the sooner I can ditch it the better


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    #754
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    You should in theory be able to get the FTA Saorsat in N.I.
    Dish size maybe 40cm in Enniskillen and maybe 80cm in Ballycastle. We won't exactly know till the service is running.

    The nearest spot on same parameters as Irish Spot is North France.
    120204.png


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    #755
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    jaykay74 wrote: »
    Sorry if this seems like a stupid question but for irish living abroad like myself does Saorsat mean anything on terms of picking up the irish channels from elsewhere in Europe. I tried looking for an answer in the thread but its fairly long at this stage :)

    You will be able to receive the satellite easily, but in Mainland Europe the spot will have totally different content, no Irish TV on it.

    Answered many times. The satellite has over 80 spots. But as far as can be established these overlap a lot in reality. A spot may be x3 bigger than shown but reception is limited by interference from a spot with same frequency and polarisation.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68543096&postcount=746

    So, yes you can pick up the same frequency & polarisation easily in mainland Europe, but it will have different content, as like "map colours" the same polarisations and frequencies are re-used on different spots separated by at least one spot.

    It's been mathematically proven that you only need four sets of colour or types of Satellite parameter to fill in any arbitrary collection of areas.


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    #756
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Apogee


    MACHEAD wrote: »
    If the bird goes up on Dec 21 and assuming sucessful launch, can we expect test signals in mid/late January?

    In truth, nobody knows when RTÉ might begin tests. They haven't exactly been forthcoming with information.


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    #757
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Unlikely Jan. March more likely than February. It takes a while to move sat to correct oribital positon, the slower that is done the more fuel for station keeping and longer life.
    Then there are all kinds of Operator System tests before customers are allowed to uplink.

    Anyone seen a new uplink dish at Donnybrook, 3.5m to 5m approx, pointing at 9E slot? RTE needs one of those too. It's possible they won't order & install uplink till after the launch is successful.


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    #758
    byte
    Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,099 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    watty wrote: »
    Unlikely Jan. March more likely than February. It takes a while to move sat to correct oribital positon, the slower that is done the more fuel for station keeping and longer life.
    Then there are all kinds of Operator System tests before customers are allowed to uplink.

    Anyone seen a new uplink dish at Donnybrook, 3.5m to 5m approx, pointing at 9E slot? RTE needs one of those too. It's possible they won't order & install uplink till after the launch is successful.
    Does anyone here have viewable access to the dishfarm at RTÉ from which to take snaps?


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    #759
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    I am guessing early February tests will start.


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    #760
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    maybe.. but that might be tight. I'm looking for a definitive document on Eutelsat "Early Orbit Phase (LEOP) activities" and "satellite commissioning In Orbit Tests" both of which occur after launch and before RTE NL get to put a test signal.

    There will be a beacon signal on the Satellite maybe some weeks before RTE NL signal to allow those with Spectrum Analyser and Ka LNBF to check dual feeds...

    This is interesting PDF http://www.eutelsat.com/investors/pdf/reference-document-0607.pdf but not the one I want.

    See http://www.ilslaunch.com/assets/pdf/NIMIQ-4-MO.pdf

    Stages
    1. Ka-Sat is launched on Proton Launch vehicle (rocket) from Kazakhstan on 20th or 21st December 2010.
    2. The Proton M uses a set of four intermediate orbits, requiring five rocket firings, to place a satellite into GEO from the high-inclination site of Baikonur Cosmodrome, in Kazakhstan. This depends on launch site and type of rocket. It may use a stage not part of satellite depending on design. Duration?
    3. Then a short burn sets the satellite moving around the "Clarke belt". An opposite burn slows down to orbital speed at point where 9E is reached. Can be some weeks. The Insertion point of GTO end won't be the desired orbital slot. This wants to be as slow as possible to save fuel.
    4. The full deployment of dishes (four) and Solar panels. Not long usually.
    5. Full diagnostics and tests of transponders and all on board equipment. Can be weeks. Depends on Satellite complexity and any problems found.

    #2 is a modified Hohmann Transfer, maybe
    In astronautics and aerospace engineering, the Hohmann transfer orbit is an orbital maneuver using two engine impulses which, under standard assumptions, move a spacecraft between two coplanar circular orbits. This maneuver was named after Walter Hohmann, the German scientist who published a description of it in 1925.


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    #761
    excollier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭excollier


    And who will make/supply affordable Ka lnbs??
    And when?
    Hope they will be freely available, not limited.:confused:


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    #762
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Apogee


    excollier wrote: »
    And who will make/supply affordable Ka lnbs??
    And when?
    Hope they will be freely available, not limited.:confused:

    WNC make the complex, but relatively inexpensive, multifeed Ka/Ku LNBFs for the US. If you look closely at the most common Sky LNBFs, they are also manufactured by WNC.

    http://www.wnc.com.tw/DBS/DBS.htm


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    #763
    excollier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭excollier


    Apogee wrote: »
    WNC make the complex, but relatively inexpensive, multifeed Ka/Ku LNBFs for the US. If you look closely at the most common Sky LNBFs, they are also manufactured by WNC.

    http://www.wnc.com.tw/DBS/DBS.htm

    But they need to be cheap to be any good for installing to the public, like around €10, seriously!


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    #764
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Ring WNC and tell them.


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    #765
    horse7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,701 ✭✭✭horse7


    Model : WP10DTB
    Technical Specifications
    WALKER SET TOP BOX
    IRISH DIGITAL TV READY
    MPEG4 DIGITAL RTE TUNER
    200 CHANNEL MEMORY
    HDMI OUTPUT
    USB INPUT
    DUAL SCART SOCKET
    SIMPLE & QUICK FIRST INSTALLATION
    REMOTE CONTROL UNIT INCLUDED


    Guarantee : 1 Year Parts and Labour
    WALKER
    SAORVIEW IRISH DTT RECEIVER isee po    wer city advertising mpeg4 box " .have tried a search on boards,with no results.does anyone know will i get my uk and irish tv on this.also is rte testing sat transmissions.thanks for any info.


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    #766
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,562 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    thats a saorview DTT box, not a saorsat box.


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    #767
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    horse7 wrote: »
    WALKER
    SAORVIEW IRISH DTT RECEIVER isee po    wer city advertising mpeg4 box " .have tried a search on boards,with no results.does anyone know will i get my uk and irish tv on this.also is rte testing sat transmissions.thanks for any info.

    You won't get satellite tv with that receiver.

    Saorsat transmissions won't begin until early next year provided the satellite launches successfully as planned in late Dec.

    There is no equipment on the market yet for Saorsat.


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    #768
    horse7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,701 ✭✭✭horse7


    sorry,my faul mixing up sat with terrestial.


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    #769
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,290 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    horse7 wrote: »
    sorry,my faul mixing up sat with terrestial.
    To be fair The powercity website wouldn't be that clear - it even suggests dishes and lnb's as accessories when you look at that receiver!


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    #770
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Apogee


    In a hangar in the south of France, workers at EADS Astrium are putting the finishing touches to one of their latest satellites.

    The plant in Toulouse has built about 40 satellites, which today circle the Earth providing television broadcasts, international communications and services to the military.

    Earlier this month ZDNet UK's sister site silicon.com visited the EADS Astrium assembly hall to see the building of KA-SAT, a Eutelsat Communications satellite, which will bring fast broadband to Europe and neighbouring areas next year.

    Here is KA-SAT without its outer casing, showing the cable feeds that will carry the signals and data to the satellite's antenna.

    The satellite will be able to send and receive a total of 70Gbps, more than any other commercial satellite currently covering Europe.

    Photo credit: EADS Astrium

    More pics in link
    http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/after-hours/2010/10/25/comms-satellite-gets-ready-for-launch-40090633/

    satellites-1.jpg


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    #771
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Based on the Eurostar E3000 platform developed by Astrium, KA-SAT will operate more than 80 spot beams simultaneously, which makes it the largest multi-beam Ka-band satellite ever ordered worldwide. The satellite will feature a high level of frequency re-use and a flexible assignment of resources to adjust to market demand. Weighing 5.8 tonnes at launch, the large spacecraft is equipped with four multi-feed deployable antennas with enhanced pointing accuracy, and will be able to operate at a payload power of more than 11 kW throughout its 15-year design lifetime.

    KA-SAT is the 17th satellite commissioned by Eutelsat from Astrium, and the 23rd Eurostar E3000 ordered. With eight commercial GEO communications satellites won in 2007, Astrium is number one worldwide in terms of satellite orders.

    Thanks.

    The photos are EADS Astrium Press Release, so may be a few months old in some cases.

    It's a very big satellite! :)

    Probably get taken by Antanov from Toulouse to Baikonur, Kazakhstan for launch on the Proton.
    Astra 3B getting loaded earlier this year. http://www.satnews.com/cgi-bin/story.cgi?number=1570416087

    The HQ of the main Russian freight company running Anatanovs used to be in Shannon. maybe still is.


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    #772
    Junior
    Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Junior


    Anybody shed any light on this statement via twitter from a local councillor

    "I welcome Irish free satellite tv service made available today - now to break the costly stranglehold that Sky has on broadcasting in Eire!"

    Has Saorsat gone live ?


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    #773
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Junior wrote: »
    Anybody shed any light on this statement via twitter from a local councillor

    "I welcome Irish free satellite tv service made available today - now to break the costly stranglehold that Sky has on broadcasting in Eire!"

    Has Saorsat gone live ?

    No. The councillor obviously doesn't have a clue what he/she's talking about. Who is the councillor and can you link to the tweet?

    "broadcasting in Eire!" probably a UK counciillor.


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    #774
    telecaster
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭telecaster


    Presumably the councillor is referring to this:
    saorview.ie wrote:
    From the 29th of October 2010 SAORVIEW will be turned on as a trial service and will be available to 90% of the population.

    This is being done to verify the engineering integrity of the systems and to confirm coverage. The trial service will operate for varying durations and will be subject to some variations and interruptions. Permanent transmissions will not commence until the full SAORVIEW service is formally launched in spring 2011.


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    #775
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    The satellite isn't even launched yet. It's the next Eutelsat Launch and is about 20th December. Takes a while to test everything afterwards. Usually. Eutelsat's most recent launch via Ariane was perfect till after separation from rocket. One of the Satellite's own fuel tanks has a leak, so W3B launched 28th/29th October 2010 for Central Europe can never do the transfer burn to take it from Launch orbit to final geosynchronous orbit. It's a complete loss shared between Thales (who built it), Eutelsat and Insurer.

    No-one can commit to a Satellite service till the Satellite is operational. So there will be no confirmation of Saorsat availability date until the Satellite has not just Launched but passed all tests. Some time march /April is likely.

    Saorview hasn't changed, except yesterday it got a bunch of web pages, web site, press releases and officially exists (it's been running unofficially for ages). http://www.techtir.ie/blog/watty/soarview-technical-launch

    Terrestrial Digital aka Saorview, means Digital TV via an aerial, not a dish.


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    #776
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thats why RTE are saying saorview starts in the spring aswell...they are reluctant to launch it untill saorsat is in place.


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    #777
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Launch : December 19 – KA-SAT – Proton-M/Briz-M – Baikonur 200/39

    So brought slightly forward, though may change again following debacle with W3B.


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    #778
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Thats why RTE are saying saorview starts in the spring aswell...they are reluctant to launch it untill saorsat is in place.

    I suspect so. But we never know for sure.
    Apogee wrote: »
    Launch : December 19 – KA-SAT – Proton-M/Briz-M – Baikonur 200/39

    So brought slightly forward, though may change again following debacle with W3B.
    Still from 20th here http://www.lyngsat.com/launches/index.html, though Hylas1 moved back from 15th November 2010 to 25th November 2010

    Though an earlier report had it on 21st December 2010 (but not on Lyngsat)

    The Official Eutelsat site has already updated W3C as replacement for W3B but still lists Ka-sat as November 2010 to January 2011. http://www.eutelsat.com/satellites/upcoming-launches.html


    They may want to re-check stuff, but it's a totally different design, on a different launcher, in a different Continent.

    Ka-Sat: EADS Astrium, Eurostar 3000 platform. Solely Ka, Proton Launch, Kazakhstan.

    W3B: Thales Alenia, Spacebus 4000 platform. Mostly Ku, Ariane Launch, French Guiana European Space Port.
    Declared Total Loss : http://www.spacenews.com/launch/101029-eutelsat-w3b-declared-total-loss.html


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    #779
    Junior
    Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Junior


    The Cush wrote: »
    No. The councillor obviously doesn't have a clue what he/she's talking about. Who is the councillor and can you link to the tweet?

    "broadcasting in Eire!" probably a UK counciillor.

    Nope he's a Waterford Based Fine Gael CC

    http://twitter.com/PaudieCoffey/status/29100572067

    I have no affiliation with the man/party etc, I just follow him on twitter for local issues and I spotted that, thought it was a bit of a 'quiet' launch.


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    #780
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Apogee


    watty wrote: »
    They may want to re-check stuff, but it's a totally different design, on a different launcher, in a different Continent.

    Baikonur isn't in South America? :eek:


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    #781
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Not many people know:
    1) Europe has one of the most advanced and best located spaceports (near equator is best), but inconveniently far from Europe in South America, and that tiny bits of EU are nowhere near Europe. They recently added an extra "terminal" for Russian launchers such as Soyuz. They use Ships and Antonov aircraft for delivery.

    2) Russia's Spaceport is inconveniently far from equator, which makes it less fuel efficient and while once in the USSR, Baikonur is inconveniently in Kazakhstan who isn't so keen on Russia any more. A bit like if the US woke up one day to discover Kennedy/Canaveral and Florida was either an independent Spanish Speaking Country, or Part of Cuba.

    There is no prize, but can you name all the EU countries and overseas territories that are NOT in Europe Geographically?

    BTW Geographically, Greenland is technically in Europe and Canaries are technically in Africa.

    Many satellites are launched on converted ICBM designs (Russian Proton, Chinese Long March, SeaLaunch), which is why people trying to develop ICBMs keep trying to Launch Scientific or communication Satellites.

    You can even get a LEO satellite done cheap from a Russian Submarine.

    Swords to ploughshares?


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