RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

The Cush

Peter Henderson wrote: »

Don't forget that free to air and free to view are both free of charge, in theory.

Not to the broadcaster who has to pay uplink and transponder costs.

Tom Slick

If this satellite is primarally designed for 2-way internet, then the uplink is hardly a big deal.

Apogee

Uplink + transponder space leasing costs. They may be a big deal if you've got the same money-grubbing mindset as TV3.

watty

2 way internet is nothing to to do with uplink costs.

The main uplink costs if you have your own Earth Station is simply the capital cost. A 4.8m dish, P.A. motors, controller etc is expensive. But once installed your uplink cost per channel in transponder is minuscule.

The only significant Ka-Sat cost is cost of approx 50Mbps, two "virtual" transponders. This will be less than cost of ONE channel on 28E for the entirety of both Multiplexes of Saorview.

Transponder costs, not Prices:
The Launch cost for Ka-Sat is similar to one of the FOUR Ku Satellites at 28E. The Actual build cost of satellite might be x5 a regular Ku satellite. But the satellite has about x20 raw capacity. So overall the actual cost of raw transponder space including recovery of capital expenditure is about 1/4. But 28E has a premium on capacity putting price higher. Also Saorsat is all DVB-T2 and MPEG4, so about 1/3rd the spectrum per SD channel of Freesat SD channels.

The Ka-Sat has about minimum 8 Earth Stations compared to one for a Ku Satellite, but capacity x20, so total Earth Station cost about 1/2

Compare with cost of 40 more DTT to have 91 instead of 51 (There are near 170 RTEs sites at present and perhaps 145 DTT would give virtually 100% coverage).
Build cost maybe €70M, over 10 years thats over €7M a year or more
Maintenance (on call staff, Spares in stock), ESB: Maybe near €1M a year or more

Peter Henderson

The Cush wrote: »

Not to the broadcaster who has to pay uplink and transponder costs.

I was thinking more from the viewer's perspective Cush !

The Cush

Peter Henderson wrote: »

I was thinking more from the viewer's perspective Cush !

OK, was never much good at mind reading. The discussion up to that point was about the broadcasters transmission related costs.

Apogee

December 21 – KA-SAT – Proton-M/Briz-M – Baikonur 200/39

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=1133.1275

Declan Carey

In layman's terms, what will happen and what channels will we get when this is launched? Have skimmed through the pages and haven't seen a definitive answer.

At the moment I've an RTE aerial on my roof getting me terrestrial RTE1, 2, TV3 and TG4, as well as a Sky Box with a FTV card.

The Cush

Declan Carey wrote: »

In layman's terms, what will happen and what channels will we get when this is launched? Have skimmed through the pages and haven't seen a definitive answer.

At the moment I've an RTE aerial on my roof getting me terrestrial RTE1, 2, TV3 and TG4, as well as a Sky Box with a FTV card.

This gives a good layman's overview - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saorsat

The Saorsat option was announced by RTÉ at an Oireachtas committee presentation in July but nothing official since. Everything since that is speculation, even the satellite to be used for the service.

Declan Carey

The Cush wrote: »

This gives a good layman's overview - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saorsat

Thanks for that.

So basically we'll need another dish and box.

Also good to see RTE have announced HD, I assume this will come as part of a standard Sky+HD subscription, aside from the Saorsat service.

The Cush

Declan Carey wrote: »

Also good to see RTE have announced HD, I assume this will come as part of a standard Sky+HD subscription, aside from the Saorsat service.

Initially no.

rlogue

RTE expect you to fork out for either a saorview or saorsat box/dish if you want their limited HD service. The fact that you might already be paying out for UPC or Sky for UK Hd channels is irrelevant.

Apogee

rlogue wrote: »

RTE expect you to fork out for either a saorview or saorsat box/dish if you want their limited HD service. The fact that you might already be paying out for UPC or Sky for UK Hd channels is irrelevant.

Stop giving money to UPC or Sky. Problem solved.

Declan Carey

rlogue wrote: »

RTE expect you to fork out for either a saorview or saorsat box/dish if you want their limited HD service. The fact that you might already be paying out for UPC or Sky for UK Hd channels is irrelevant.

Ya I know that, hopefully in time anyway it becomes part of the package.

STB

rlogue wrote: »

RTE expect you to fork out for either a saorview or saorsat box/dish if you want their limited HD service. The fact that you might already be paying out for UPC or Sky for UK Hd channels is irrelevant.

As Apogee said you do not have to subscribe to pay TV to get RTE NL terrestrial TV. Its Free to Air.

I am sure an individual knows what they are getting into when they subscribe to pay services. Bills. 9 out of the top 10 stations watched in ROI are actually Free to Air. If you pay for what is FTA, bigger fool you.

Mr McBoatface

I personally believe SKY should not get any Irish HD channels or any new Irish channels that may be on Saorview/Saorsat until the stop paying the VAT they charge Irish customers to the UK exchequer.

12 element

rlogue wrote: »

The fact that you might already be paying out for UPC or Sky for UK Hd channels is irrelevant.

The UK HD channels are free to air, why are you paying for them?

watty

RTE expects you to get UK TV and HD for Free

Debate debates.oireachtas.ie
(worth reading the whole thing)

Quote:

Mr. Conor Hayes:
The UK channels are available under an approach called Freesat, which is broadcast by a company owned by the BBC and ITV. They broadcast these channels in the clear over Ireland using a wide-band satellite operating in the KU band. RTE’s satellite option is a narrow-band satellite operating in the Ka band. One cannot get them on the same satellite. In the US, there are hybrid dishes available and householders can receive Ka band and Ku band signals. That is technically feasible and there are some 22 million households in the US using it. The cost of the dish is approximately $65.

It's 99.99% certain that it's Ka-Sat @9E. Launch scheduled 20th December 2010

RTE have stated they intend to be fully HD on Saorview/Saorsat for a while before offering the HD content to Sky (which will have to be PayTV only and carried at Sky's Expense).

Stinicker

jobyrne30 wrote: »

I personally believe SKY should not get any Irish HD channels or any new Irish channels that may be on Saorview/Saorsat until the stop paying the VAT they charge Irish customers to the UK exchequer.

I think when Saorsat is launched RTE should either threaten to pull the plug on Sky or else start charging Sky for their Channels. RTE on Sky has been a huge boon for Sky in Ireland and RTE should charge Sky for them, say €2million enough to run Saorsat! Then having RTE available via satellite would cost nothing to the licence payer.

Sam Russell

Stinicker wrote: »

I think when Saorsat is launched RTE should either threaten to pull the plug on Sky or else start charging Sky for their Channels. RTE on Sky has been a huge boon for Sky in Ireland and RTE should charge Sky for them, say €2million enough to run Saorsat! Then having RTE available via satellite would cost nothing to the licence payer.

Sky rake in more than €250m from the Irish public, so the cost to them for RTE should be proportinate, say €25m/ year, which would mean that all distribution would be paid for, and RTE could reduce the licence fee by about €15.

John896

Hi i am from Swansea i have a 2.4m Channel Master Dish when Saorsat is live,do you think i would get a signal on my 2.4m if i changed the lnb to KA.?A few years back i did get RTE One and Two from Terrestrial,but in the rain i lost signal.I now have to pay a satellite company in ireland who, set up Sky Ireland for me so i can watch RTE One on Sky.

Digifriendly

John896 wrote: »

Hi i am from Swansea i have a 2.4m Channel Master Dish when Saorsat is live,do you think i would get a signal on my 2.4m if i changed the lnb to KA.?A few years back i did get RTE One and Two from Terrestrial,but in the rain i lost signal.I now have to pay a satellite company in ireland who, set up Sky Ireland for me so i can watch RTE One on Sky.

Can you get RTE2/TG4/TV3 also on Sky? Also Swansea is quite a distance for ROI signals to travel. Do you know from which transmitter they came and do you still pick these signals up in good weather conditions? If so a higher gain aerial may do the trick.

John896

I have a sky Hd Roi Sub get Rte One,Two,Tv3,Tg4,3e.It was about two years when i put an aerial up lost signal when the rain came,so i sold the aerial and went for Sky.

The Cush

watty wrote: »

Debate debates.oireachtas.ie
(worth reading the whole thing)

Obviously hasn't been read by many based on the questions and speculation posted here at times.

For those unable or unwilling to read three pages of transcript the debate can be watched here - http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0714/newsspecial_av.html?2787365,null,230.

watty

John896 wrote: »

Hi i am from Swansea i have a 2.4m Channel Master Dish when Saorsat is live,do you think i would get a signal on my 2.4m if i changed the lnb to KA.?A few years back i did get RTE One and Two from Terrestrial,but in the rain i lost signal.I now have to pay a satellite company in ireland who, set up Sky Ireland for me so i can watch RTE One on Sky.

It's not just a Matter of Dish size as the French Spot overlapping English Channel is from SAME satellite, and has same band & polarity. If it's active no matter how big the dish is the Irish signal will have too much French Interference

By time you are at red line the French spot is too much interference

Likely only Anglesey Coast and I.O.M. would be far enough away from Northern France.

Also a 2.4m very hard to point accurately for Ka, it's like a 4m on Ku. You might even need dual 24x7 motor control to track the satellite.

ISAA

KA-SAT
Ordered by Eutelsat from EADS Astrium, KA-SAT is scheduled for launch between November 2010 and January 2011. Entirely innovative in design, the satellite will be configured with over 80 spotbeams, with a network of eight ground stations connecting to the Internet backbone.

The KA-SAT programme is to deliver efficient resources for the mass-market delivery of the Tooway™ consumer broadband service, targeted at users across Europe and the Mediterranean Basin located beyond range of ADSL networks. With a throughput of over 70 Gigabits per second, KA-SAT will be capable of serving over one million users who expect bandwidth and prices comparable to ADSL2 performance.

Eutelsat will also drive the development of satellite-based consumer broadband services with triple-play capability, by combining broadband services in the Ka-band, through KA-SAT, with the reception of TV channels in the Ku-band. In order to facilitate the availability of high-performance triple-play equipment at competitive prices, Eutelsat will deploy the KA-SAT satellite to 9° East. This deployment will simplify production of dual-feed antennas transmitting and receiving broadband services in the Ka-band from 9° East, and receiving television in the Ku-band from Eutelsat’s flagship HOT BIRD™ neighbourhood at 13° East.

MACHEAD

Apogee wrote: »

December 21 – KA-SAT – Proton-M/Briz-M – Baikonur 200/39

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=1133.1275

If the bird goes up on Dec 21 and assuming sucessful launch, can we expect test signals in mid/late January?

ISAA

Hope it's launched on this date (21st Dec) as if it's late, it could cause a problem for Santa.

watty

MACHEAD wrote: »

If the bird goes up on Dec 21 and assuming sucessful launch, can we expect test signals in mid/late January?

No. Likely later than that. Feb/March as I said earlier before RTE get to try it. Maybe later.#

I thought on 14th Oct the Launch is on 20th December http://www.techtir.ie/blog/watty/ka-sat-countdown

jaykay74

Sorry if this seems like a stupid question but for irish living abroad like myself does Saorsat mean anything on terms of picking up the irish channels from elsewhere in Europe. I tried looking for an answer in the thread but its fairly long at this stage