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Swimming for Tri Beginners

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13567…19

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    #62
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    KillianByrne wrote: »
    I am currently 'on hold' with a back / disc issue. Waiting on input from physio if the swimming will be a help or hinderance to my current predicament. I'm not dropping out, just waiting!

    Looking good for Dublin 70.30


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    #63
    career move
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭career move


    Kurt Godel wrote: »
    Wk 1 - Day 3
    200 easy
    4*50 k with board (rest at each wall if needed)
    4*400, alternate swim and pb, minute rest after each
    200 easy
    Keep an easy steady pace for these 400's- you should finish at a similar pace as you start. More experienced swimmers can try 6*400.

    Did this today as
    200 alternating backstroke and fc
    4x50 k with board I'm feeling a growing antipathy towards that damn board
    400 pb I like the pb. It feels like I'm floating on the water ..... but it's hard work on the arms
    400 sw This felt horrible for the first 100 like I was sinking into a plughole
    200 pb Was getting tired and I was going to leave it at just the 2x 400 but after I had a rest I felt a bit more energised
    200 sw This was good
    200 alternating backstroke and fc but mostly backstroke :D

    That was a tough session for me. I felt a bit weak walking back to the
    car but I'm happy that what I did I did well even if I did have to take a few sneaky breaks. And I'm finding it way easier to breathe :D


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    #64
    Kurt Godel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    career move wrote: »
    4x50 k with board I'm feeling a growing antipathy towards that damn board

    The best way to fall in love with the Board... is to do 4*50k arms front, without the board. You'll never complain about the Board again!;)


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    #65
    career move
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭career move


    Kurt Godel wrote: »
    The best way to fall in love with the Board... is to do 4*50k arms front, without the board. You'll never complain about the Board again!;)
    I'll take your word for it :eek:


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    #66
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    Kurt Godel wrote: »
    The best way to fall in love with the Board... is to do 4*50k arms front, without the board. You'll never complain about the Board again!;)
    Its pretty ok with a snorkel. :D


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    #67
    RJM85
    Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭RJM85


    Maybe not the correct place to ask this, but I suspect it might be a good place to get good advice...

    What do people do when trying to get a session done in a crowded pool? I've recently joined Markevich Centre off Tara street intending to use the pool a couple of mornings a week. The lanes seem busy enough that it will be difficult to get 'my session' done without lots of slowing down in the medium lane, or getting in the way in the fast lane.

    A number of people seem to know each other and do sets together - is the best thing just to ask to join in?


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    #68
    Kurt Godel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    Get talking with the other swimmers and get a lifeguard onside if possible. 99% of the time I find people are more than willing to organise according to ability.

    (or else mark "your" lane with a mesh bag full of swim toys, IM-branded waterbottle, and whiteboard with swim set on tripod... ;))


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    #69
    KillianByrne
    Registered Users Posts: 615 ✭✭✭KillianByrne


    Kurt Godel wrote: »
    Don't know if they are connected, but using the pb lower down on the legs can put a strain on the lower back.

    <Snip Kurt should know better than to give Medical Advice>

    Thanks, it could very well have contributed to the current level of pain, I never considered that. It is a condition that I have 'managed' with injections pre marathon but post marathon has got worse. I never got to see your medical advice, I'm sure it was well intentioned!
    tunney wrote: »
    Looking good for Dublin 70.30

    Constructive comments & helpful as always tunny, thanks for your input.


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    #70
    RJM85
    Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭RJM85


    Kurt Godel wrote: »
    Get talking with the other swimmers and get a lifeguard onside if possible. 99% of the time I find people are more than willing to organise according to ability.

    (or else mark "your" lane with a mesh bag full of swim toys, IM-branded waterbottle, and whiteboard with swim set on tripod... ;))

    And to think, I was just going to take a whizz at each end of the lane


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    #71
    Kurt Godel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    KillianByrne wrote: »
    Thanks, it could very well have contributed to the current level of pain, I never considered that. It is a condition that I have 'managed' with injections pre marathon but post marathon has got worse. I never got to see your medical advice, I'm sure it was well intentioned!

    I called it "Medical Advice", (which was unfair to the mods as it forced their hand- sorry lads), but it was general Physical advice really. Nothing is better for back/disc issues than swimming. It will take pressure off the vertebrae, allow flexible movement within the discs, generate core stability, all in a non-impact environment. I spent my years from 28-35 going to back specialists, chiropractors, physio's, MRI's, etc. Crippled and I stood at an angle most of the time. Swimming was the answer all along.


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    #72
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    However, for some back injuries swimming is one of the worst things to do, particularly if you have poor technique. Check it out first if you are concerned...


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    #73
    paddy no 11
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭paddy no 11


    All, is there a thread on beginner wetsuits, dont want to create a new one as im sure its been done to death before. Following the advice on this thread so thought id ask here.

    Total newb, shoulders getting tired in surfsuit so want to switch.


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    #74
    paddy no 11
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭paddy no 11


    User Name: Paddy no 11
    Swim Experience: Was good as a kid gave up as teenager been back in pool 3-4 years
    Can you breath bilaterally?: No
    Current 100m time: could manage 1:30 all out
    Current 400m time: could manage 7:15 all out
    Tri race experience: nil
    Open Water experience: a bit last year, not very comfortable
    Furthest distance swam: 1.9k in pool, 200 in OW
    Any Other Relevant details: Needs to buy a swiming wetsuit


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    #75
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    paddy no 11 wrote: »
    All, is there a thread on beginner wetsuits, dont want to create a new one as im sure its been done to death before. Following the advice on this thread so thought id ask here.

    Total newb, shoulders getting tired in surfsuit so want to switch.
    I would advise going to a bricks and mortar shop and trying a few on. (And do the decent thing and buy it there too, if you like it). There are offers online all the time, but fit can be an issue.


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    #76
    MojoMaker
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Good question and one that comes up frequently. The best option is definitely fit in a bricks & mortar shop and prepare to haggle. Buying online very risky as even suits from the same line can be slightly different fit, and suits from the same brand across different lines can be oddly different sizing.

    This thread in the swimming forum was fairly recent and might help http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057289719


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    #77
    Bart86
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Bart86


    User Name: bart86
    Swim Experience: I learnt how to swim with my head into the water a year ago. :)
    Can you breath bilaterally?: Yes
    Current 100m time: 2:30 all out
    Current 400m time: I dont know yet
    Tri race experience: none
    Open Water experience: none
    Furthest distance swam: In one go 750m in a pool
    Any Other Relevant details: My goal is to do few Triathlons next year.
    Trying to swim with a high elbow. My arm tends to be straight and I feel that I am unable move forward.
    I have tried with Armpit touch drill and I cannot manage to touch my left one. I have to forced it a lot.

    I did the Wk 1 - Day 3

    200 easy > Freestyle
    4*50 k with board > *No issues*
    2*400, with a PB easy. Without it, I finished tired..
    I did not have time to keep going for the 2*400 left
    200 easy > Backstroke, quite difficult as I have no technique.


    Nice session! Thank you Kurt Godel for this!


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    #78
    Kurt Godel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    Bart86 wrote: »
    I have tried with Armpit touch drill and I cannot manage to touch my left one. I have to forced it a lot.

    It's not necessary to actually touch the armpit, the main purpose of the drill is to get your elbow good and high. Keeping the hand close to the armpit helps in this regard. It's a forced drill all right, but it will feed into better freestyle stroke.


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    #79
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    Kurt Godel wrote: »
    It's not necessary to actually touch the armpit, the main purpose of the drill is to get your elbow good and high. Keeping the hand close to the armpit helps in this regard. It's a forced drill all right, but it will feed into better freestyle stroke.
    Its also called zipper drill, where you make an action like pulling a zipper up your side from thigh to armpit. Might work better for you.


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    #80
    pgibbo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pgibbo


    Kurt Godel wrote: »
    It's not necessary to actually touch the armpit, the main purpose of the drill is to get your elbow good and high. Keeping the hand close to the armpit helps in this regard. It's a forced drill all right, but it will feed into better freestyle stroke.

    Why do you say that? Not many if any of the pros seem to swim, this way - at least in OW. They seem to have a swinger type stroke (Swim Smooth reference).


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    #81
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    pgibbo wrote: »
    Why do you say that? Not many if any of the pros seem to swim, this way - at least in OW. They seem to have a swinger type stroke (Swim Smooth reference).
    Im curious about this, because I noticed their 'windmill' style in race coverage, but didnt know it had an official name! I hadnt come across it in any coaching or training, but then Ive never done swim smooth. Do you reckon novices should be taught this? Do they have the potential to get the best from it, or do you have to be powerful and strong to really get the best from such a 'fly' like stroke?


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    #82
    pgibbo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pgibbo


    I'm wondering the same thing Oryx and curious what the likes of interested, Kurt, Peter, et al think.

    Personally I don't have the mobility to swim any other way than windmill/swing. That's how I swim even though I didn't realise it until I saw it on video :pac: Then again, calling what I do swimming is a stretch :D


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    #83
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Oryx wrote: »
    Im curious about this, because I noticed their 'windmill' style in race coverage, but didnt know it had an official name! I hadnt come across it in any coaching or training, but then Ive never done swim smooth. Do you reckon novices should be taught this? Do they have the potential to get the best from it, or do you have to be powerful and strong to really get the best from such a 'fly' like stroke?

    Called a ballistic recovery.


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    #84
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    tunney wrote: »
    Called a ballistic recovery.

    The thing is though that people need to learn to swim first. Worrying about the specifics of OW swimming before betting the basics of swimming is going to confuse the matter.


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    #85
    MojoMaker
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Google some of Janet Evans swims from Atlanta '96 or earlier in her career. Classic windmill stroke in action (above the water) - need to keep stroke count very high to be successful with this style, like 95+ spm versus the more regular 75spm you'd see Ian Thorpe swimming with, or lower again for Sun Yang and the long distance pool sharks.

    Watching Janet Evans swim you would seriously wonder how she makes it from one end of the pool to the other with such a frenetic & crazy style, yet she was the dominant female American swimmer of her generation.


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    #86
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    pgibbo wrote: »
    Why do you say that? Not many if any of the pros seem to swim, this way - at least in OW. They seem to have a swinger type stroke (Swim Smooth reference).

    i think here comes what the coach said at the begining too many chefs spoil the broth. so i think this questions should only be asked by people that are training with kurt and right know they should do what he says and then ask those questions after a while , if there is too many opnions than people get confused.


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    #87
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    peter kern wrote: »
    i think here comes what the coach said at the begining too many chefs spoil the broth. so i think this questions should only be asked by people that are training with kurt and right know they should do what he says and then ask those questions after a while , if there is too many opnions than people get confused.

    Yup. If kurt is doing the thread things get done his way


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    #88
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    height plays a part into this
    and i have to say janet events should have tried to qualify for the open water 5 k swim would have suited her better or given her a better chance
    MojoMaker wrote: »
    Google some of Janet Evans swims from Atlanta '96 or earlier in her career. Classic windmill stroke in action (above the water) - need to keep stroke count very high to be successful with this style, like 95+ spm versus the more regular 75spm you'd see Ian Thorpe swimming with, or lower again for Sun Yang and the long distance pool sharks.

    Watching Janet Evans swim you would seriously wonder how she makes it from one end of the pool to the other with such a frenetic & crazy style, yet she was the dominant female American swimmer of her generation.


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    #89
    Kurt Godel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    pgibbo wrote: »
    Why do you say that? Not many if any of the pros seem to swim, this way - at least in OW. They seem to have a swinger type stroke (Swim Smooth reference).

    Freestyle=front crawl=triathlon swimming, and in that respect a higher cadence wider recovery "swinger" type is a subset of freestyle. In any case, the goal at the moment is to correct basic stuff, get people swimming well, high elbow, better kick, decent hand entry. Learn to swim, get confident in OW, and by all means start to experiment with stroke then. But, walk before you can run, at least as far as this thread is concerned at the moment.


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    #90
    Kurt Godel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    Week 3 Programme

    The focus this week is on your breathing. 100m test at the end of the week.

    Day 1
    200 easy
    4*100 as (25m pb, 25m kick (use your pb as a board), 25m pb, 25m kick, 15 sec rest)
    8*25 (breath every 2 strokes first 25, breath every 3 next 25, and repeat)
    3*50 fingertip
    3*50 pb
    3*50 armpit tap
    3*50 sw
    200 swim down
    (15 sec rest after each drill, all done at comfortable pace)

    For the 8*25, have all air emptied from your lungs by the time you go up to take a breath, so exhale constantly underwater, then take a small breath. The key here is to have all air expelled, and just take enough on board to get to the next breath. Be aware of how little air you actually need to swim smoothly and with control. Do these slow, very controlled, focus on exhaling smoothly and constantly. You should not be gasping to take on air, not explosively letting air out- and at no stage hold your breath!

    Day 2
    200 easy
    4*50 k with board (rest at each wall if needed)
    50 swim, slow, focus on controlled breathing
    300 swim, steady pace
    50 swim, slow, focus on controlled breathing
    400pb, steady pace
    50 swim, slow, focus on controlled breathing
    300 swim, steady pace
    50 swim, slow, focus on controlled breathing
    400pb, steady pace
    200m swim down

    As much rest as required between each. The object to keep your breathing controlled for the longer 300/400's

    Day 3
    200 easy
    4*50 k with board (rest at each wall if needed)
    2*200 as 50fingertip, 50pb, 50 armpit, 50 swim
    2 mins rest
    100 TT (Time Trial). Swim as fast as you can and record the time
    4 mins rest
    2*200 as 50fingertip, 50pb, 50 armpit, 50 swim
    2 mins rest
    100 TT. Swim as fast as you can and record the time
    200 swim down

    Stick your best 100m time down in the chart below for November:

    100m Time Trial|Nov '14|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|June'15
    AN Other||||||||
    ||||||||
    ||||||||
    ||||||||


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    #91
    iwillhtfu
    Registered Users Posts: 6,368 ✭✭✭iwillhtfu


    That arm pit tap is playng havoc with my shoulder but I'll persist.

    I've picked up a pair of those finger boards and find them great when used with the PB. it highlighted a few issues I was having at the end of my stroke seemed to be leaving my hand flat and creating drag.

    The kickboard drills still suck and like most feel a bit motionless after so long.

    sorry haven't been keeping up to date I'll update times and such during the week.

    thanks for the time and effort KG


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