Super Mario 3D All-Stars

RocketRaccoon · 17-09-2020 3:51pm

glasso wrote: »

well some posters were coming out with absolutely bonkers untrue statements so why don't I have the chance to refute them in the discussion?

If you have no interest just don't read it m8.

the Mario 64 Source Code (with others) was leaked so if Nintendo lost it they can just get it from the internet :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE7IDzVyfAI

Don't read it? The majority of the posts in here are about whether it's a remake or a remaster or it's emulated. Anyone buying it clearly doesn't give a shiny sh1te so the posts about it are pointless.

Star Lord · 17-09-2020 3:52pm

glasso wrote: »

The analog camera hack was less than 100 lines of code (excluding the white space)

That doesn't mean that it didn't take a hell of a lot of time and effort to achieve that.

17-09-2020 3:56pm

Star Lord wrote: »

That doesn't mean that it didn't take a hell of a lot of time and effort to achieve that.

seems fairly trivial if you watch the video of the programmer explaining it about just reading and outputting inputs

he doesn't labour on about how long it took - quite the opposite - "so I programmed one"

Riesen_Meal · 17-09-2020 4:00pm

Saw a headline on youtube saying Galaxy 2 was included as a secret game? Is that clickbait rubbish?

17-09-2020 4:03pm

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Don't read it? The majority of the posts in here are about whether it's a remake or a remaster or it's emulated. Anyone buying it clearly doesn't give a shiny sh1te so the posts about it are pointless.

it has actually been the subject of a quite lot of discussion on the internet in general. And here -> and the original poster in fact brought it up

now I hope that that shiny sh1te isn't constipating you too much.

RocketRaccoon · 17-09-2020 4:04pm

Fieldog wrote: »

Saw a headline on youtube saying Galaxy 2 was included as a secret game? Is that clickbait rubbish?

I'm sure one of the posters here would have mentioned it.

RocketRaccoon · 17-09-2020 4:06pm

glasso wrote: »

it has actually been the subject of a quite lot of discussion on the internet in general. And here -> and the original poster in fact brought it up

now I hope that that shiny sh1te isn't constipating you too much.

General gamers don't care, they want to play these games so will buy them. Do you think someone my age who played Mario 64 first time around really cares that it's not going to stand up graphic wise to todays platformers?

17-09-2020 4:08pm

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

General gamers don't care, they want to play these games so will buy them. Do you think someone my age who played Mario 64 first time around really cares that it's not going to stand up graphic wise to todays platformers?

that's not what the discussion here was about primarily.

and in fact the graphics resolution is something that actually has been upgraded.

more so the controls, why they didn't bother to update obvious defects like the camera in mario 64 etc

but as you say yourself, this particular discussion is lost on you.

Retr0gamer · 17-09-2020 4:11pm

glasso wrote: »

seems fairly trivial if you watch the video of the programmer explaining it about just reading and outputting inputs

he doesn't labour on about how long it took - quite the opposite - "so I programmed one"

It's very easy to explain your code once it's finished and you have it nicely commented.

Of course he is going to ignore the hours pouring over the fan community's crowd-developed documentation over 25 years figuring out what the hexidecimal values being spit out by the system are, making sure it doesn't clash with any existing code, finding the right authoring tools and whether this will actually work on hardware or the very inaccurate homebrew emulators we have now.

Writing 100 lines of code isn't like writing a 100 line essay.

I wrote a video game AI routine in about 250 and it took weeks and I didn't have to deal with hexadecimal.

17-09-2020 4:14pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's very easy to explain your code once it's finished and you have it nicely commented.

Of course he is going to ignore the hours pouring over the fan community's crowd-developed documentation over 25 years figuring out what the hexidecimal values being spit out by the system are, making sure it doesn't clash with any existing code, finding the right authoring tools and whether this will actually work on hardware or the very inaccurate homebrew emulators we have now.

Writing 100 lines of code isn't like writing a 100 line essay.

I wrote a video game AI routine in about 250 and it took weeks and I didn't have to deal with hexadecimal.

as I said he explains in it in the very short video the process of capturing and outputting inputs and he delivers this message as if it was a trivial enough process.

I'm familiar with programming , can code and likewise know that comparing one programming task to another is irrelevant.

trying to argue that this was some big effort that Nintendo couldn't do if they were even 1/2 arsed is not very convincing

Coybig_ · 17-09-2020 4:16pm

Is it only when you get the text that you should go to Smyths for the preorder? As in, if I swung by there after work without getting the text, is there any chance I might leave with my copy?

Star Lord · 17-09-2020 4:21pm

Coybig_ wrote: »

Is it only when you get the text that you should go to Smyths for the preorder? As in, if I swung by there after work without getting the text, is there any chance I might leave with my copy?

As tomorrow is the release date, I don't think they'll give it to you. Those that got it received it from orders for delivery.

Exclamation Marc · 17-09-2020 4:21pm

Coybig_ wrote: »

Is it only when you get the text that you should go to Smyths for the preorder? As in, if I swung by there after work without getting the text, is there any chance I might leave with my copy?

No you'll get the text at 9pm likely when they close. They won't hand it out before.

druss · 17-09-2020 4:42pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Got an email from Gamestop. Delivery is delayed due to problems with not getting the stock in time so mine isn't shipping until friday.

Useless ****ers.

I got a call from them to say that my store pick up is pushed back till Saturday as well. I'll live with it coz I'm trading in a copy of Mario Rabbids against it.

Retr0gamer · 17-09-2020 4:49pm

glasso wrote: »

as I said he explains in it in the very short video the process of capturing and outputting inputs and he delivers this message as if it was a trivial enough process.

I'm familiar with programming , can code and likewise know that comparing one programming task to another is irrelevant.

trying to argue that this was some big effort that Nintendo couldn't do if they were even 1/2 arsed is not very convincing

Except, not to trivialise the bedroom coders work, his camera is very half arsed. There's no AI pathfinding around geometry or collision with geometry. I very much doubt nintendo would allow something so broken into their game and can imagine the insane effort it would take implementing it into Mario 64.

Nothing is ever as trivial as adding a feature. You have to account for what said feature will break.

Kirby · 17-09-2020 4:51pm

Good point but the original camera isn't exactly virtuoso programming either. It's broken as all hell. It gets stuck on many levels and you can use it so see out of bounds in the castle in many places.

Nobody is saying it would be easy. What they are saying is that Nintendo has the ability to do it and probably should have.

They had to make programming changes to get Galaxy to work. And it mostly does. So it begs the question, why not put the same effort into Mario64?

17-09-2020 4:53pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Except, not to trivialise the bedroom coders work, his camera is very half arsed. There's no AI pathfinding around geometry or collision with geometry. I very much doubt nintendo would allow something so broken into their game and can imagine the insane effort it would take implementing it into Mario 64.

Nothing is ever as trivial as adding a feature. You have to account for what said feature will break.

yes this is just a quick x-axis only camera hack and not very sophisticated

still Nintendo, with their vast resources didn't even try to begin with.

That is the key point - couldn't be arsed - just throw out the same thing from 24 years ago (auto-upscaling aside) and hit up the consumers

Retr0gamer · 17-09-2020 5:01pm

Kirby wrote: »

They had to make programming changes to get Galaxy to work. And it mostly does. So it begs the question, why not put the same effort into Mario64?

Two reasons:

Nintendo has a policy of presenting their games as originally intended as much as possible.

The budget didn't cover it.

And a sweeping change like a second analogue camera has massive consequences for how a game works, QA, testing and might just not be possible on the host hardware (The N64 really doesn't have the grunt to run the AI needed for todays third person cameras). It's a minefield when you have the choice of presenting the game as close to as originally intended as possible. It's not like Mario 64 is totally unplayable because of the camera, it's still a greatest of all time game.

17-09-2020 5:09pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Two reasons:

Nintendo has a policy of presenting their games as originally intended as much as possible.

The budget didn't cover it.

And a sweeping change like a second analogue camera has massive consequences for how a game works, QA, testing and might just not be possible on the host hardware (The N64 really doesn't have the grunt to run the AI needed for todays third person cameras). It's a minefield when you have the choice of presenting the game as close to as originally intended as possible. It's not like Mario 64 is totally unplayable because of the camera, it's still a greatest of all time game.

I don't buy this at all.

even giving control over just the x-axis plane with the right-stick for movement would be a huge quality of life upgrade and doesn't need any AI whatsoever (this is purely complicating the conversation)

you just leave the existing crappy auto camera as is but you can control the x-axis view with the right stick

this would make a massive difference to playing the game - even like the crude way as done by the programmer actually does make a big difference.

there would be some work to do with the existing level-design draw-spaces if the x-axis view could go outside the existing design areas but I don't see it as insurmountable by any means

maddymcmaddser · 17-09-2020 5:14pm

I was hoping someone in here would say Smyths are letting people collect it early! This'll be my 5th different version of Mario 64 and I cannot wait to play it to 100% completion again, it's one of the best games ever made!

Also on the camera discussion, I like the crappy camera and the sound effects, I wouldn't have it any other way!

17-09-2020 5:29pm

maddymcmaddser wrote: »

I was hoping someone in here would say Smyths are letting people collect it early! This'll be my 5th different version of Mario 64 and I cannot wait to play it to 100% completion again, it's one of the best games ever made!

Also on the camera discussion, I like the crappy camera and the sound effects, I wouldn't have it any other way!

:eek:

sound is fine but that camera is the work of the devil.

Mucashinto · 17-09-2020 5:55pm

Hypothetical:

No covid supply issues this year and this isn’t released. This partly explains the limited release. AAA title doesn’t make it as planned for xmas(3D World?) so this is rushed out to fill/get money in.

But it still would have taken a bit of time so maybe they already had them being worked on - could it be N64/GC/Wii emulator going to be added to the NES/SNES there already? Could also explain the limited time, they move onto to the service for Nintendo Online subscribers. ðŸ€·*♂️

17-09-2020 5:55pm

And Nintendo knows how to do this with N64 first party 3D games

They re-released Majora's Mask on the new 3DS and implemented free camera control using the new 3DS's second analogue stick

That was not exactly that long ago - how difficult could it really be to reuse this work - everyone knows that programming is all about re-use of similar prior work.

17-09-2020 7:03pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q5qOYp9ihY

Eduard Khil · 17-09-2020 7:39pm

Unsubscribing from this now, it's getting tedious.

McDermotX · 17-09-2020 8:37pm

Arrived this morning from Smyths but not had a chance to try it out.
Emulation....Smemulation !! Just two all time greats, and one decent one.

17-09-2020 8:40pm

I've nothing more to add here lol - I just can't stand spoofers making up stuff to defend Nintendo!

CiDeRmAn · 17-09-2020 9:07pm

Take the heat out of this discussion or don't post it here, If I have to delete a post I'l be warning the poster as well.
If they ignore the advice, they'll be taking a break from the forum too.

blockfighter · 17-09-2020 9:13pm

Just got my text from Smyths. Order ready for collection. Whoop!!

Star Lord · 17-09-2020 9:39pm

glasso wrote: »

And Nintendo knows how to do this with N64 first party 3D games

They re-released Majora's Mask on the new 3DS and implemented free camera control using the new 3DS's second analogue stick

That was not exactly that long ago - how difficult could it really be to reuse this work - everyone knows that programming is all about re-use of similar prior work.

That wasn't Nintendo, BTW, that was Grezzo that handled the OOT and Majora's Mask 3D remakes. And they were full priced, full remakes of single games, rather than re-releasing slightly tweaked versions of the originals in a 3-for-1 deal.

17-09-2020 10:17pm

Star Lord wrote: »

That wasn't Nintendo, BTW, that was Grezzo that handled the OOT and Majora's Mask 3D remakes. And they were full priced, full remakes of single games, rather than re-releasing slightly tweaked versions of the originals in a 3-for-1 deal.

I fully agree with you that those releases (MM and OoT) were full re-workings for the 3DS.

but if it (camera right-stick) has been done before wrt an N64 3D first-party game so that part of the work could be reused / leveraged even if it was done in a full remake. If an amateur coder can make a perfectly workable x-axis camera in little time why can't a full dev house do it. Nintendo would own all the assets even if sub-contracted as it's a first-party IP.

maddymcmaddser · 17-09-2020 10:54pm

Text received from Smyths this evening to collect it in the morning, I'll probably play the first level in each game just to see what they look like! Has anyone on here played it yet?

CastorTroy · 17-09-2020 11:10pm

just as a matter of interest, what's the download size?

Exclamation Marc · 17-09-2020 11:15pm

maddymcmaddser wrote: »

Text received from Smyths this evening to collect it in the morning, I'll probably play the first level in each game just to see what they look like! Has anyone on here played it yet?

I've only played Super Mario 64 so far.

It's great fun. Brings me right back. Some niggles that are clearly due to the advance in tech since but overall, great to play!

Mr E · 18-09-2020 6:57am

€60.49 in Argos. Stocks are patchy. Some sold out, some stores have 5+.

fixXxer · 18-09-2020 7:21am

Just reserved mine. One left in Dun Laoghaire Argos.

maddymcmaddser · 18-09-2020 8:20am

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

I've only played Super Mario 64 so far.

It's great fun. Brings me right back. Some niggles that are clearly due to the advance in tech since but overall, great to play!

Cool good to hear, I've been playing through Odyssey with my daughter, we're going to start 64 together later! I think she'll enjoy it!

Fysh · 18-09-2020 8:36am

CastorTroy wrote: »

just as a matter of interest, what's the download size?

Listed as 5013MB on the UK eshop.

McFly85 · 18-09-2020 9:06am

Just did the first few stars of Galaxy, hadn’t played it since it came out-absolutely magic. The controls in handheld are understandably slightly annoying at times but I think will be fine after some getting used to-but I do plan to use the TV for it when I can.

Still a great looking game too, and the music is phenomenal. Weekend sorted!!

R.F. · 18-09-2020 9:44am

anyone else get delayed from GameStop online?

I know they have a bad rep but the last 3 switch games I preordered arrived a day early so wasn’t too worried about this.

Hope I get it Monday

CiDeRmAn · 18-09-2020 10:03am

I bought the game in it's physical form but wonder if I should have bought the digital version instead, as then my son and I, on our respective Switch consoles, could enjoy the games...

I have a feeling though that the games will find there way into the Online service or eShop in another form even after the end of March...

Retr0gamer · 18-09-2020 10:04am

glasso wrote: »

I fully agree with you that those releases (MM and OoT) were full re-workings for the 3DS.

but if it (camera right-stick) has been done before wrt an N64 3D first-party game so that part of the work could be reused / leveraged even if it was done in a full remake. If an amateur coder can make a perfectly workable x-axis camera in little time why can't a full dev house do it. Nintendo would own all the assets even if sub-contracted as it's a first-party IP.

They were ground up remakes with a brand new engine using the source code of the originals to get the physics right.

Basically the new engine facilitated the camera. It wasn't a rom hack.

And saying the code could just be reused is a gross simplification of how game development works.

holly_johnson · 18-09-2020 10:16am

Just picked this up from Smyths. Work can’t finish quick enough today! I absolutely loved Galaxy on the Wii and have never played sunshine or 64 so I’m planning a weekend binge!

Daith · 18-09-2020 10:20am

I was kinda surprised how many people were picking up the game from Smyths Jervis tbh.

I know it won't be perfect, but it should help with a Dublin lockdown.

sniper_samurai · 18-09-2020 11:28am

R.F. wrote: »

anyone else get delayed from GameStop online?

I know they have a bad rep but the last 3 switch games I preordered arrived a day early so wasn’t too worried about this.

Hope I get it Monday

Got a call this morning saying that delivery has been delayed. Will probably cancel and get it in Smyths, they seem to have plenty of stock.

Atlas_IRL · 18-09-2020 11:31am

IF they are sent today you'll get it tomorrow i'd assume. An Post are always next day with express even saturday. Cancelling is not going to do anything if they are sent already.

sniper_samurai · 18-09-2020 11:33am

Atlas_IRL wrote: »

IF they are sent today you'll get it tomorrow i'd assume. An Post are always next day with express even saturday. Cancelling is not going to do anything if they are sent already.

I've got it ordered in store. GameStop have not received a single copy of the game from Nintendo yet.

WeleaseWoderick · 18-09-2020 11:41am

Copy from Smyths arrived by post today. Looking forward to playing a bit over the weekend.

How Soon Is Now · 18-09-2020 12:24pm

I and the girlfriend both ordered this off of smyths when was announced she ordered hers littler bit before me and I somehow got mine yesterday and hers hasn't come yet ha.

Postman has already been around as well.
I'll just give her mine and hopefully, another one comes asap. I have the game downloaded for my switch anyway I just want to keep a copy for collection in an unopened box.

Playing a bit of Mario 64 now controls and camera haven't aged well! Still a fun game though.

chrislad · 18-09-2020 12:29pm

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I and the girlfriend both ordered this off of smyths when was announced she ordered hers littler bit before me and I somehow got mine yesterday and hers hasn't come yet ha.

Postman has already been around as well.
I'll just give her mine and hopefully, another one comes asap. I have the game downloaded for my switch anyway I just want to keep a copy for collection in an unopened box.

Playing a bit of Mario 64 now controls and camera haven't aged well! Still a fun game though.

Yup, just getting back into it. The camera is frustrating alright! Not terrible, but things have moved on considerably, and stopping to refocus does take the momentum out. There's nothing wrong per se, it's just that games have moved on and we've gotten too used to more modern comforts!

Super Mario 3D All-Stars

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