BattleCorp wrote: »

Nobody is asking you to put an angle grinder through your firearms but there's no point denying the fact that this legislation will cause problems for shooters here.

There are several problems for us that I can see.

1. The definition of wetlands. It's quite possible that pretty much all of Ireland could be classed as a wetland.

2. If most of Ireland is classed as a wetland, they might make the decision to get rid of lead altogether, and not just in the wetlands.

3. Even if it's not contained in EU legislation, our own Government might sneak in a few extra conditions as they did with the EU magazine ban about a year ago. Mags could have been grandfathered for sporting purposes. They Irish Government didn't do that. The EU legislation had nothing in it regarding keeping ammo in locked containers but our legislation added that in.

I'm not scaremongering here but this legislation poses a real threat to shooting here.

Yes it does and I am always concerned when new regulations are enforced on us. I do not want to see leadshot banned for game shooting here and my only point was I do not feel that enforcement here will take into account puddles etc but would purely stick to lakes, rivers etc. I could be totally wrong and hope I am not I do however feel that lead bullets whenever they can not be suitably replaced by some other material will remain with us. I shot deer here when you had to jump over hoops to get a 22-250 license and the gains made since then are being gradually clawed back both from the EU and our own authorities. So yes I fully agree with you this legislation does pose a threat to shooting but I remain hopeful things will turn out in our favour.

People could still buy .22LR lead-free rounds

For the moment the ban of lead only concerns lead shot for use in shotguns. The next step is to legislate for ALL lead in CIVILIAN ammunition, that covers everything. It's mentioned previously if you read back through the pages of this thread.

Fastnet50 wrote: »

Yes it does and I am always concerned when new regulations are enforced on us. I do not want to see leadshot banned for game shooting here and my only point was I do not feel that enforcement here will take into account puddles etc but would purely stick to lakes, rivers etc

.

For your information.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-pNA1BNVgk&feature=emb_logo

The EU council voted to affirm this idiocy on Wed.:mad:

Have they spoken about banning lead in all civilian ammunition or is it what people are imagining the next step the EU will take?

As mentioned, this can be found by reading back through this thread as it's been covered. See my post #562 for a start

The last paragraph looks like there may be some wiggle room in the definition of "wetlands"

https://www.all4shooters.com/en/shooting/law/eu-lead-ban-envi-committee-approves-the-proposal-from-the-ec/

Nor is it a promised "end of the matter"material.If you read these EU statements ,they say they can also investigate other materials for suitability, and ban then toi if they find them hazardous. So in 10,20 years we could be back to square 1 with alt shot.

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/vintage-friendly-eco-steel

I got that email too. I don't know if the particular submission mentioned that has gotten postponed is also the same submission that the following below article mentions. The article was published today and the ECHA email came in yesterday but maybe due to deadlines they didn't get the info in time to change the article. Or maybe they're just totally different submissions - I'm finding this hard to follow at times

https://www.all4shooters.com/en/shooting/law/lead-ammunition-and-wetlands-the-battle-continues/

The article mentions "Hunters and sport shooters will also play an active role, and in this respect they will receive all instructions from their national hunting and sport shooting associations."

Anyone know if any organisations here are following this? The lead ban is coming after all lead ammunition, the shot over "wetlands" is just the first step. I'd imagine all our national bodies should be following this, from hunting to clay shooting and target shooting since it'll affect every firearm with the exception of crossbows!:rolleyes:

EDIT: Just after posting the above I saw this: https://www.nargc.ie/cpages/lead-campaign

Did the ban pass?

I was watching this chap earlier. Start the video at about 4.50 mins in.

This is being pushed by the United Nations. The lead ban is being brought in under the African-Eurasian wildbird agreement (AEWA), which the BASC, the UK version of NARGC, are receiveing funding. This agreement and BASC are being funded by the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP).

Are any Irish orgs being funded like this ?

berettaman wrote: »

I do not know about the others but according to the Treasurer of the NARGC they do not receive any outside funding whatsoever.


What about the rest? Sports coalition of vested interests are too small but should be asked anyway.

Well NARGC have been fighting the ban, but as you seen in the video BASC were all for it. I seen the countryside alliance mentioned but don't know if they were for it or against it. When big sums of money start flying around, principles disappear.

Yeah the ban passed!:(:(Only thing that seems to have got thru is the 2-year phase-in.:(
So it is now also official policy the EU presumption of innocence has been thrown out the window as well.

What's the bets that the definition of wetland will cover 100% of Ireland?

Yeah, because it is the easiest cop-out for the bunch of sleeveens that we elect to govern us.:mad:

tudderone wrote: »

They are only the rubber stampers to the EU, and have been since the bail-out. The real government is in Brussels, has been for some time.

Worse than that. Our guys often gold-plate EU legislation by adding on their on sh1te onto it and then blame the EU.

BattleCorp wrote: »

What's the bets that the definition of wetland will cover 100% of Ireland?

Yeah, the government have the option to completely ban the sale and use of it, if the territory is made up of over 20 percent wetlands.

Not sure on that one Mississippi.
This one is more built in to the lead ban, possibly to relive the government of any hassle they will face trying to enforce it.

With the whole guiltily for carrying lead shot cartridges within 100 meters of "wetlands", banning it completely makes that easier to enforce / prosecute.

There is a recent ballistics test on YouTube here:https://youtu.be/XDX65Vx9sjE

Not sure I completey agree with the attitude of replacing barrels and looking at handed down shotguns as just tools, but at least ammunition companies are making cartridges, hopefully they keep getting better.

BattleCorp wrote: »

You'd probably want to be within about 30 yards of the target too because steel drops like a mutha****a in comparrison to lead.

The whole thing is a dogs breakfast. Also to get the same performance as lead, chamber pressures have to be higher, so recoil will be higher too. Its a mess.

Been thinking a bit on this friends, and maybe there is a way we can upset the cart a bit on this? Not so much on the lead ban itself, but make it expensive for the Irish govt to comply with?

The proof house legislation and the lack thereof in Ireland. Seeing that Britan is leaving within the next couple of months and is the next neighbour who handles this...What is the situation with the EU accepting UK proof marks in the future as an acceptable standard on firearms on the market?

No point in us sending guns to an outside the EU country for proof, and the EU, and even its own legislation stating all guns on the market MUST be registered,sold or deactivated and within EU proof standards. Then to be told they are not acceptable..Because of Brexit.

So next stop is the Continent. However, there is also EU legislation that states all govt services mandated by the EU in Brussels must be provided for in each individual country and be of an acceptable common standard. IE our NCT must be on par with say the MOT, or TUV, etc.

Ergo,we should have our own proof house here under EU legislation!!
As we did have once and we have legislation that was provided for testing SHOTGUNS only.
So where is it?? Us sending our guns to Ulm or Liege would be like driving our cars there for an NCT as well.:eek: Esp as we are an island nation outside the Schengen agreement.IOW because of our location,it is an arduous and vexatious legislative process.

IOW let's make the Irish Govt comply with a law they have never considered necessary to comply with.
We need these guns tested to see if they are safe for steel, we need a deactivation standard to EU legislation. We have some" gunsmiths" selling stuff, that are technically potential bombs, gun dealers that are passing on junk, and doing thread jobs that wouldn't pass on a cattle crush, let alone a gun barrel.

It will cost them a few million to set up , staff and keep running and give them another EU headache. Phyric, I know...But at least it would save us some ridiculous money, get possibly some dangerous scrap off the market, and make sure we aren't buying an " ACME Wyle Coyote" special gun off "Danny Joe gunsmith and cattle grid works"

This obviously can be a double-edged sword for us too...But would the pros outweigh the cons in this case?

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Been thinking a bit on this friends, and maybe there is a way we can upset the cart a bit on this? Not so much on the lead ban itself, but make it expensive for the Irish govt to comply with?

The proof house legislation and the lack thereof in Ireland. Seeing that Britan is leaving within the next couple of months and is the next neighbour who handles this...What is the situation with the EU accepting UK proof marks in the future as an acceptable standard on firearms on the market?

No point in us sending guns to an outside the EU country for proof, and the EU, and even its own legislation stating all guns on the market MUST be registered,sold or deactivated and within EU proof standards. Then to be told they are not acceptable..Because of Brexit.

So next stop is the Continent. However, there is also EU legislation that states all govt services mandated by the EU in Brussels must be provided for in each individual country and be of an acceptable common standard. IE our NCT must be on par with say the MOT, or TUV, etc.

Ergo,we should have our own proof house here under EU legislation!!
As we did have once and we have legislation that was provided for testing SHOTGUNS only.
So where is it?? Us sending our guns to Ulm or Liege would be like driving our cars there for an NCT as well.:eek: Esp as we are an island nation outside the Schengen agreement.IOW because of our location,it is an arduous and vexatious legislative process.

IOW let's make the Irish Govt comply with a law they have never considered necessary to comply with.
We need these guns tested to see if they are safe for steel, we need a deactivation standard to EU legislation. We have some" gunsmiths" selling stuff, that are technically potential bombs, gun dealers that are passing on junk, and doing thread jobs that wouldn't pass on a cattle crush, let alone a gun barrel.

It will cost them a few million to set up , staff and keep running and give them another EU headache. Phyric, I know...But at least it would save us some ridiculous money, get possibly some dangerous scrap off the market, and make sure we aren't buying an " ACME Wyle Coyote" special gun off "Danny Joe gunsmith and cattle grid works"

This obviously can be a double-edged sword for us too...But would the pros outweigh the cons in this case?

It might serve to cement firearms and sports-shooting by creating an micro-industry around/beside something thats just seen as a PIA for the PTB

richiedel123 wrote: »

Maybe I'm dreaming this but as far as I remember did the scovi not have a plan for setting up a training centre and proof house somewhere. When the last batch of regulations were being thrown out by the ptb I remember they put in this is what they wanted as regulations because they had it all set up and ready to go

Believe me, you don't want the SCOVI on your side based on their previous actions.

The easiest way to get rid of them from the ministerial table is simply starting an E-petition stating as the gun owners of Ireland, we have no faith in SCOVI and that they represent no majority of gun owners or hunters bar themselves...[All 10 of them proably], and we petition them to be removed from the FCP.