Bicycles, Phoenix Park and traffic

Stark · 26-10-2020 11:40am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Big sign up at the entrance to the park "due to the inability of a sizable minority of motorists using the park to do so civilly and responsibly and putting pedestrains and cyclists unecessarily at risk we've decided to close it to motoring traffic until further notice. Sorry for any inconvenience caused."

For real?

I was at Knockmaroon gate around 9am this morning and it was open btw

Pinch Flat · 26-10-2020 11:57am

Stark wrote: »

For real?

I was at Knockmaroon gate around 9am this morning and it was open btw

Sorry I was being facetious

. Don't worry it'll never happen. We'll still continue to accommodate thousands of cars regardless of it's negative impact.

a148pro · 26-10-2020 12:56pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

"But...but...but how can I go for a walk with my family if I can't bring my car?" :rolleyes:

Due to decades of moronic government there is an absence of reasonable green space near me

Due to decades of moronic government it is not safe for my 8 year old to cycle to the park even if I am happy to bring my two other kids on my bike at our own risk

Due to 7 months of moronic government I am now criminalized for going more than 5k from my house to access nature or the outdoors, both of which are vitally important for my mental health and my family's benefit. There are any number of scientific studies establishing the benefits of this.

There are no scientific studies showing how travelling more than 5k to exercise outside while practicing social distancing leads to a spread of the virus. Zero. Yet this policy is enthusiastically cheerleaded by many here.

So they haven given me these choices - I give you yours - tolerate cars in the park so people like me can access the outdoors with our families, or maybe agitate to remove the tin hat 5k ban and encourage people to broaden their horizons for outdoor exercise. St anne's, bull island, howth, malahide, newbridge house, donadee, dublin mountains, wicklow mountains, etc etc

All reachable with zero human contact. All criminal offences

Seth Brundle · 26-10-2020 1:05pm

a148pro wrote: »

There are no scientific studies showing how travelling more than 5k to exercise outside while practicing social distancing leads to a spread of the virus. Zero. Yet this policy is enthusiastically cheerleaded by many here.

If people are moving around less then the spread of the virus is slowed. It's not hard to understand and doesn't require scientific studies. Look at the previous lockdowns: did the transmission numbers go up or down?

a148pro wrote: »

So they haven given me these choices - I give you yours - tolerate cars in the park so people like me can access the outdoors with our families, or maybe agitate to remove the tin hat 5k ban and encourage people to broaden their horizons for outdoor exercise. St anne's, bull island, howth, malahide, newbridge house, donadee, dublin mountains, wicklow mountains, etc etc

All reachable with zero human contact. All criminal offences

If you stay within your 5km then it shouldn't matter how you travel but that doesn't excuse driving and parking like a prick (as per the previously posted tweets).
Furthermore, you want to allow crowds all enjoy parks at the same time? What did you and your family do before the lockdown because not all of you went to the parks like they're doing now.

Weepsie · 26-10-2020 1:07pm

Truthvader wrote: »

Maybe it happened because an idiot entitled cyclist swerved into the middle of the road in front of a car??

Anyway rock on. DCC will do anything to get car owners so by next Summer I expect you will have the Phoenix Park to yourselves and everyone else can get lost

DCC don't manage the park, and it's in DCCs interests to reduce car use.

If you live in DCCs area the need for a car to use the amenities within DCC are not particularly great to be honest .

Anyway, found the park much more enjoyable this morning. Was there same time as yesterday. A lot less traffic, less bikes and less joggers. Putting yesterday down to the virtual marathon and the good weather.

Was picking up though just as I was leaving

Weepsie · 26-10-2020 1:10pm

a148pro wrote: »

Due to decades of moronic government there is an absence of reasonable green space near me

Due to decades of moronic government it is not safe for my 8 year old to cycle to the park even if I am happy to bring my two other kids on my bike at our own risk

Due to 7 months of moronic government I am now criminalized for going more than 5k from my house to access nature or the outdoors, both of which are vitally important for my mental health and my family's benefit. There are any number of scientific studies establishing the benefits of this.

There are no scientific studies showing how travelling more than 5k to exercise outside while practicing social distancing leads to a spread of the virus. Zero. Yet this policy is enthusiastically cheerleaded by many here.

So they haven given me these choices - I give you yours - tolerate cars in the park so people like me can access the outdoors with our families, or maybe agitate to remove the tin hat 5k ban and encourage people to broaden their horizons for outdoor exercise. St anne's, bull island, howth, malahide, newbridge house, donadee, dublin mountains, wicklow mountains, etc etc

All reachable with zero human contact. All criminal offences

It's not safe because people insist on driving.

I saw plenty of kids and families cycling to the park today and yesterday. They all seemed perfectly safe.

There was a time when people didn't think of throwing everything in the car to get somewhere a few km away, and it really wasn't that long ago.

a148pro · 26-10-2020 1:16pm

People aren't moving around less - they're moving around in tighter areas. Have you been out on the streets? It's much busier than normal. Restricting people to 5k does not in any way prevent the spread of the virus. Restricting people from coming into close contact with others does. I fully support that. There's little to no evidence for outside spread.

restricting people to 5k, assuming the same behaviour will have zero affect on the number of people you infect, you'll just spread it to the same number of people in your area, and if they're all packed in, to more people.

I don't agree with bad parking, of course I don't. But making the park utterly car free, laudable as that is, deprives many families of access.

Yes, most weekends I visit those kind of parks with my family, or go further afield down the country.

Weepsie · 26-10-2020 1:28pm

It's not just about the spread of the virus. You know this.

Managing behaviour is a logical step for multiple reasons. Limiting movement massively brings down the risk of other types of accidents and common illness/infections.

I and someone I know have had the misfortune of having to visit a&e during first lockdown. Night and day to what you'd normally see and out within 2 hours. This is because there were feck all sporting injuries, feck all kids coming in needing stitches, no ambulances bringing in car crash victims, far, far fewer drunks and related injuries.

Hospitals were getting patients who need hospital care back to their homes in the last fortnight, because they think they're about to come under pressure again.

If you can keep it localised all the better, anyway. You're not alone in being asked to moderate travel and behaviour, but it's only the people who disagree with it seem to take it as some sort of personal sleight , moan about scientific evidence and don't look at the plethora of related reasons for limiting movement.

5 k radius s a big area , so claiming people are packed in by the limit is hyperbolic nonsense.

It's off topic now so I'll leave it at that

a148pro · 26-10-2020 3:09pm

Weepsie wrote: »

It's not just about the spread of the virus. You know this.

Managing behaviour is a logical step for multiple reasons. Limiting movement massively brings down the risk of other types of accidents and common illness/infections.

I haven't heard one actual public health official articulate this, the only people who come up with it are on forums trying to find justifications for the rule. It would be really helpful if a clear rationale for the rule was actually communicated. If they actually wanted to limit admissions to A and E they should ban alcohol, or DIY. They haven't, because like greyhound racing its politically advantageous to them not to.

Weepsie wrote: »

You're not alone in being asked to moderate travel and behaviour, but it's only the people who disagree with it seem to take it as some sort of personal sleight , moan about scientific evidence and don't look at the plethora of related reasons for limiting movement.

Ah, its only the people who disagree with it who have the temerity to ask what the rationale for criminalising people for doing things that have no effect on the spread of the virus is, or what the scientific evidence underlying such astonishing restrictions, unheard of outside of a war? What a surprise that is. What exactly is your point, that only people who disagree with the rule are asking for its justification?

I'm not taking this personally. I'm disgusted that our government is criminalising people for no valid reason. They're not targeting me, they're just governing really badly, in consequence of which I will commit criminal offences for doing things that have zero effect on the virus. This on top of a series of decisions so bad by the same people they arguably should be criminalised themselves. Either the law is reasonable and valid or it isn't, its got nothing to do with me personally. You don't criminalise people for BS reasons.

Weepsie wrote: »

5 k radius s a big area , so claiming people are packed in by the limit is hyperbolic nonsense.

Hyperbolic nonsense? I'm looking out my window and just back from a cycle around town. There are more people on the streets than there would be ordinarily at this time. The cafes have long queues outside them.

I mean this is the easiest way to answer your argument:-

If you support a 5k limit on movements its because you believe people transmit the virus outside. Otherwise there should be no 5k limit on travelling for exercise, or visiting outside areas.

Leaving aside the fact that the evidence does not support significant outside transmission, by confining a large area with a high population density (i.e., where I live) you increase the risk of outside transmission.

So what you are defending, on your own rationale, leads to an increased risk of people transmitting the virus. As, for example, does cycling long distances within 5k of your house pursuing this idiotic rationale.

Weepsie wrote: »

It's off topic now so I'll leave it at that

Agreed, and I'm sorry for bringing it up again, and its probably not doing me any good though I wish more people would think about it. But its only relevant here because I can't in effect go to the Park due to the increased numbers caused by the 5k limit. Ordinarily I would avoid it on any sunny day because its too busy and head further afield, which is fine because I love seeing new places. Now I'll have to avoid it each weekend because its going to be like this every weekend that it isn't raining. And for what, I ask again!

And by the way, I would LOVE to be able to cycle to the park with my family, or get the LUAS, but neither are viable due to road safety and public health guidance. We cycled during lockdown as there was almost nothing on the roads, though my son is pretty tired by the time he gets there and doesn't have as much energy to explore.

The Park's access is a perennial problem. It will now be magnified (again) by COVID, but it'll always be there to an extent. I look forward to it being solved.

Seth Brundle · 26-10-2020 3:30pm

a148pro wrote: »

I haven't heard one actual public health official articulate this, the only people who come up with it are on forums trying to find justifications for the rule. It would be really helpful if a clear rationale for the rule was actually communicated. If they actually wanted to limit admissions to A and E they should ban alcohol, or DIY. They haven't, because like greyhound racing its politically advantageous to them not to.

Some people hear what they want to hear!
It was frequently repeated to avoid putting pressure on medical services. I've also heard it said recently so the message is still being put out there.
By reducing interactions between people, pressure on essential services is reduced.
The WHO approve of their use in reducing the spread
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/herd-immunity-lockdowns-and-covid-19

Seth Brundle · 26-10-2020 3:33pm

a148pro wrote: »

I'm not taking this personally. I'm disgusted that our government is criminalising people for no valid reason.

No valid reason? Assisting in the spread of s pandemic which is adding to thenongoing cost of getting back to normal? Potentially spreading the disease to someone which could result in death?
I have zero sympathy for someone who ends up getting charged. However, has anyone been criminalised for no valid reason as you say?

a148pro · 26-10-2020 3:39pm

Indeed, some people do hear what they want to hear. Like anyone reading that link and purporting that it justifies a 5k restriction!

Yes for no valid reason - because anyone visiting the mountains or a forest or another recreational area within their family bubble poses zero risk to public health.

a148pro · 26-10-2020 3:44pm

Also contributing to the cost of getting back to normal - which normal is this then? The normal where businesses and jobs are gone and we relax restrictions only to put them back up again? The cost is actually loaded onto the lockdown.

Jesus do you honestly believe me going for a cycle in the mountains or taking my kids for a walk in massey's is going to slow our return to normal? While building sites are open? Have you bought that crap? What is going to happen in January? Christ it's pointless.

a148pro · 26-10-2020 3:48pm

Listen, it's off topic and we're going around in mutually frustrating circles, a bit like the cyclists these days; )

Let's just leave it

Seth Brundle · 26-10-2020 3:55pm

a148pro wrote: »

Indeed, some people do hear what they want to hear. Like anyone reading that link and purporting that it justifies a 5k restriction!

As you well know thwre are many forms if lockdown.
Italy had some that involved the military imposing the restrictions. At the other end of the scale you have a government asking people to remain within 2km or 5km from home. It's not a big ask!

a148pro wrote: »

Yes for no valid reason - because anyone visiting the mountains or a forest or another recreational area within their family bubble poses zero risk to public health.

Seemingly Stocking Lane, the road up along the Hellfire club has been a massive car park recently.
Near me, I note loads of cars parked at access points to the Royal Canal.
The problem is not you bringing your family out. The problem is having loads of people with the same idea at the same time.

magicbastarder · 26-10-2020 4:10pm

it seems that people seem more interested in getting outside now that we're in lockdown. we were in the botanic gardens this morning and i don't think i've ever seen the place as busy.

Mercian Pro · 26-10-2020 4:45pm

Weepsie wrote: »

Anyway, found the park much more enjoyable this morning. Was there same time as yesterday. A lot less traffic, less bikes and less joggers. Putting yesterday down to the virtual marathon and the good weather.

Was picking up though just as I was leaving

Avoided the Park yesterday but headed up this morning at about 9.30 for six laps of the perimeter. As usual, I did a rough count of bikes and cars on the first lap and it worked out at about twice as many bikes as cars (86vs45). With the six perimeter gates closed pre-July, there were normally ten times as many bikes as cars.

As posted elsewhere, I emailed patrick.odonovan@oir.ie, the Minister for OPW, looking to have the gates closed again and other Covid measures reintroduced. No reply after five days so I have asked my local Green TD who lives in Stoneybatter to take up the case. If anyone else feels strongly about it, they might consider doing likewise.

Stark · 26-10-2020 4:52pm

I'm wondering what the **** the Greens are at since they've been in government. It seems to be like 2008-2011 again with carbon taxes, a few quid towards the B2W scheme and sod all else. DLRCC and to a lesser extent Dublin city council have been doing some amazing stuff, though I wonder is it even the Green councillors who are driving that. I remember Labour councillors being quite decent in the past.

Seth Brundle · 26-10-2020 5:00pm

Stark wrote: »

I'm wondering what the **** the Greens are at since they've been in government. It seems to be like 2008-2011 again with carbon taxes, a few quid towards the B2W scheme and sod all else. DLRCC and to a lesser extent Dublin city council have been doing some amazing stuff, though I wonder is it even the Green councillors who are driving that. I remember Labour councillors being quite decent in the past.

What kind of changes are you expecting after a few months?

magicbastarder · 26-10-2020 5:04pm

They're bringing in legislation for e-scooters next year.

mvt · 26-10-2020 6:39pm

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Avoided the Park yesterday but headed up this morning at about 9.30 for six laps of the perimeter. As usual, I did a rough count of bikes and cars on the first lap and it worked out at about twice as many bikes as cars (86vs45). With the six perimeter gates closed pre-July, there were normally ten times as many bikes as cars.

As posted elsewhere, I emailed patrick.odonovan@oir.ie, the Minister for OPW, looking to have the gates closed again and other Covid measures reintroduced. No reply after five days so I have asked my local Green TD who lives in Stoneybatter to take up the case. If anyone else feels strongly about it, they might consider doing likewise.

I don't know how you count anything at your normal speed

Good luck with the positive lobbying.

a148pro · 26-10-2020 6:41pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

it seems that people seem more interested in getting outside now that we're in lockdown. we were in the botanic gardens this morning and i don't think i've ever seen the place as busy.

I think its a bit of both - as soon as we're told we can't have something we all want it, like looking for drink on good friday. Then other people are stressed and looking for a bit of outdoor time and so many other activities and destinations are gone.

My missus says this is affecting me because I view the outdoors as my release. When work or family life gets to me I jump on the bike or pull on a pair of runners and hit the hills, or get the kids up there. Its my safety valve. I always look forward to holidays for that break and even Ireland has so much to offer. Now like everyone else I'm more stressed, more confined to the house and kids and my valve is being taken away.

Also agree re the Greens, this pandemic has done more for Dublin Cycling than anything else, but it seems that's being driven by the Council? Greens also having their own internal problems with their own radical side, maybe becoming too mainstream for some. I think they had a bit of shape on the budget though.

Pinch Flat · 26-10-2020 7:02pm

Was heading down by the Aras earlier. On the drops and going at pace - 40 kph plus. €150 worth of seesense lights blaring back and front. Still didn't stop some dope overtaking me andpulling into the cycle lane, stopping abruptly in front of me. He swerved in without warning i genuinely thought he was deliberately trying to kill me or he had collapsed at the wheel. Closest I've come to being milled in a while.

magicbastarder · 30-10-2020 2:30pm

as seen on the 5km radius cyle routes thread:

Almost all Phoenix Park gates to close to vehicular traffic on weekends for duration of Level 5
https://www.thejournal.ie/phoenix-park-gates-closed-level-5-5249619-Oct2020/

it's 'Following a request from An Garda Síochána' - which is a fairly damning state of affairs. i suspect the OPW staff were delighted that gave them the clout to do it.

Stark · 30-10-2020 2:45pm

I'd say the main motivation on the Gardaí's part was facilitating the 5km checkpoints. With the side gates open, the checkpoints at Castleknock and Parkgate street were almost useless as people could get in and out of the side gates without passing any checkpoints.

Mercian Pro · 30-10-2020 3:04pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

as seen on the 5km radius cyle routes thread:

Almost all Phoenix Park gates to close to vehicular traffic on weekends for duration of Level 5
https://www.thejournal.ie/phoenix-park-gates-closed-level-5-5249619-Oct2020/

it's 'Following a request from An Garda Síochána' - which is a fairly damning state of affairs. i suspect the OPW staff were delighted that gave them the clout to do it.

Just got notification from Neasa Hourican about this. I got the impression I wasn't the only one lobbying the Minister and local TDs on the issue. As I stay well clear of the Park at weekends due to the crowds, I won't get much benefit from this on my mid-week circuits. Hopefully at weekends they will also prevent the perimeter roads being used as a linear car park.

bazermc · 30-10-2020 3:24pm

Great news.

Thelonious Monk · 30-10-2020 3:54pm

The concern for old people and disabled people will go through the roof now with online commentators.
I really don't get it. On Monday just gone, nice autumn day, I fancied a walk to the end of the bull wall. So instead of being a dumb f*ck and trying to drive over the wooden bridge and into the traffic chaos, I simply parked in Conquer Hill in Clontarf, and walked the remaining distance. This is all you need to do if you want to drive somewhere, park somewhere else and walk a bit. It saves so much hassle and stress with traffic and parking.

Thelonious Monk · 30-10-2020 4:14pm

Closed due to safety concerns? Have cars started to drive on the paths now? There is ample room for pedestrians, cyclists and cars in the park, this is a ridiculous decision. People who don’t live within walking distance to the park deserve to be able to drive there and go for a walk.

Classic Journal comment. I'm sure some of you have seen the 1000s of cars dumped all over the footpaths and cycle lanes in the park over the last few months. Unless helicopters are dropping them there, they're driving on the paths now, yes.

a148pro · 30-10-2020 10:52pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

This is all you need to do if you want to drive somewhere, park somewhere else and walk a bit. It saves so much hassle and stress with traffic and parking.

Grand, but whether you like it or not there is **** all parking around the park. And what little public transport there is is discouraged under current public health guidance.

There was 5 miles of parking along an ugly road border but they decided to ruin one of the nicer cycle lanes in Dublin by putting it on the road instead.

Anyway this has all been rehearsed above. There are multiple users with multiple transport needs in the park and unfortunately at present they won't be reconciled.

Weepsie · 31-10-2020 1:29am

4-5 km (on 2 sides so say 9 in total) of road public road should never ever, ever, ever have been given up for the parking of private vehicles.

Also the cycle lane was crap and lead to unsafe meetings of pedestrians and cyclists and zero clarity on right of way anywhere

a148pro · 31-10-2020 8:44am

Well realistically would you prefer to have them parking on the grass as they are now?

My argument is that the centre road is a write off aesthetically. Once there's a road there you may as well allow people park on it. I've been on that road lots when it's closed and it just isn't nice beyond the novelty of no traffic. The actual park either side of it is of course nice. But once there's an ugly road there you may as well use it for parking.

I really liked that cycle lane. It was totally off set and felt like you were cycling for the pleasure rather than to get somewhere. Yes there was a problem with pedestrians but that could have been managed. I think the optimum for all cycling infrastructure is to have it away from roads altogether.

Present "solution" has you cycling beside cars and loses 5 miles of parking. Lose lose imo.

plodder · 31-10-2020 9:40am

a148pro wrote: »

Well realistically would you prefer to have them parking on the grass as they are now?

My argument is that the centre road is a write off aesthetically. Once there's a road there you may as well allow people park on it. I've been on that road lots when it's closed and it just isn't nice beyond the novelty of no traffic. The actual park either side of it is of course nice. But once there's an ugly road there you may as well use it for parking.

I really liked that cycle lane. It was totally off set and felt like you were cycling for the pleasure rather than to get somewhere. Yes there was a problem with pedestrians but that could have been managed. I think the optimum for all cycling infrastructure is to have it away from roads altogether.

Present "solution" has you cycling beside cars and loses 5 miles of parking. Lose lose imo.

While I'd agree with you that parking is a problem that has to be solved, I wouldn't go along with that aesthetic argument. It's really the presence of cars that makes Chesterfield ave. ugly. Compare this with this view of the park in Dresden I mentioned before. With 99% of the cars gone and the traffic markings removed, it could be beautiful. Granted the park in Dresden is a lot smaller; the straight main route is only 2km long as opposed to 4km in our park. But, when I was there early one morning it was like a commuter super-highway for cyclists, but still pleasant and safe for pedestrians.

a148pro · 31-10-2020 11:13am

Listen, I'm totally with you. But I bet you people can get to the park in Dresden easily with public transport. Much less viable for people in Dublin due to our crap transport options, and certainly at the moment when we're been told to stay off public transport.

I would absolutely love to have zero cars in the park every day of the year. But that would really mean shutting off the park to a big portion of its regular users - families who don't live close enough to it to arrive safely otherwise than in a car.

ted1 · 31-10-2020 11:33am

a148pro wrote: »

Listen, I'm totally with you. But I bet you people can get to the park in Dresden easily with public transport. Much less viable for people in Dublin due to our crap transport options, and certainly at the moment when we're been told to stay off public transport.

I would absolutely love to have zero cars in the park every day of the year. But that would really mean shutting off the park to a big portion of its regular users - families who don't live close enough to it to arrive safely otherwise than in a car.

The LUAS drops off beside it. It’s very accessible

a148pro · 31-10-2020 11:56am

If you live on that luas line and could use it it's good. But even at that it's 2.5 miles to the far side of the park. Not sure how many kids would make it much past the magazine fort on foot. You can't take bikes on the luas. I think a luas going through it with several stops or very frequent shuttle bus around it maybe? Hard to know how to get it right without taking from the atmosphere.

Tenzor07 · 31-10-2020 1:02pm

a148pro wrote: »

Listen, I'm totally with you. But I bet you people can get to the park in Dresden easily with public transport. Much less viable for people in Dublin due to our crap transport options.

In all fairness Dublin has a fairly extensive Bus network with clean modern busses that cover pretty much every part of the city...As well as a modern tram system and a railway system too...

Dublin isn't Dresden and wasn't completely destroyed during the war and rebuilt with many tram and train lines being constructed.

The issues Dublin has is the motorist was/is prioritized over public transport and cycling, car dependency is high in Dublin for the public, bicycle theft is rife with no serious deterrents or fear of being caught for thieves, poor planning leading to sprawling housing estates dotted all over the city...

I would argue that for the duration of the Level 5 restrictions that all but the main gates should remain closed, if you need a car to get to the park then you most likely live over 5km from the park so shouldn't be there anyways..

Also I wish the OPW would bring out a road sweeper to clear the mush of leaves from the Ashtown side of the park, they're lethal! If you have to brake or swerve to avoid a car/pedestrian/jogger/horse rider/cyclist coming the other way then you're in trouble! :mad:

Pinch Flat · 31-10-2020 1:07pm

Great to see it closed to traffic. I've been doing laps on my bike in the parkover the past while.

Have had three motorists pull in at chesterfield avenue into the cycle lane - one almost hitting me. Some crazy overtaking where the cycle lane ends at the roundabouts. Not one single motorist has given me right of way at the entrance leading from chapelizod when I'm coming down the hill and following the road right - one yesterday almost collided with me. The road from the chapelizod gate to the ordnance survey has turned into a real rat run - overtaking into oncoming cyclists and cars common place. Parking also a disgrace - just dump the car where ever you fab0cy, including on the bike lane opposite the wellington monument. the avenue at the ordnance survey - bollards and signs ignored.

KevRossi · 31-10-2020 1:10pm

This space can hold the cars that are parked on Chesterfield Ave. Add in a few more and you'll have plenty of space to get cars off the main road and ban them on the side roads. After that, rigouros enforcement via clamping and it would solve a lot of issues.

Ironically the 'old' cycle path would then be freed up. Move pedestrians back onto the 'old' footpath, widening it it necessary. Sympathetic signage and coloured cycle paths would help to separate people as would gaps in the railings to allow people to change paths. Chesterfield needs zebra crossings and speed limits need to be enforced.

Run a Luas along Chesterfield - but that would take years to build, in the meantime try a dedicated bus route at the weekend serving Connolly/Busaras - O'Connell Bridge - Parliament St - Wood Quay - Heuston, all the way up to Castleknock and the Phoenix Park Station. Or just Heuston up to Phoenix Park Station.

Something like this.

magicbastarder · 31-10-2020 1:23pm

one of the main issues with the park is that you have to drive *into* the park to get to the main car parks (visitor centre and papal cross), both of which involve driving on the main avenue. to get to either car park basically involves driving halfway into the park, which if you assume there are going to be car parks, is precisely the least efficient way of getting cars in and out.

aso as per above - if they're going to put car parks in, put them beside the gates (either inside or outside the walls) and remove any car parks near the centre, except for parking for permit holders.

Stark · 31-10-2020 1:36pm

Definitely a lot more pleasant this morning. Granted the Park in general was a lot quieter than last weekend due to ****ty weather and not having the virtual marathon series this weekend. Was able to run around the perimeter roads and leave the footpaths exclusively to walkers. Though when you consider that I still needed the extra social distancing space on a quiet weekend due to the narrow footpaths, it was freaking insane how many people they squashed into such a small space last weekend just so a small minority of the Park users could have free run of the bulk of the space.

Mercian Pro · 01-11-2020 1:23pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

one of the main issues with the park is that you have to drive *into* the park to get to the main car parks (visitor centre and papal cross), both of which involve driving on the main avenue. to get to either car park basically involves driving halfway into the park, which if you assume there are going to be car parks, is precisely the least efficient way of getting cars in and out.

aso as per above - if they're going to put car parks in, put them beside the gates (either inside or outside the walls) and remove any car parks near the ceintre, except for parking for permit holders.

Couldn't agree more and that's what I will be suggesting whenever they get around to having their Traffic Management consultation. Rising bollards could be used, as they are in many European cities and parks, to limit further access to those who work or have business within the Park.

Still not sure what the best solution for Chesterfield Avenue might be. Every proposal to close it off to through traffic over the past half century has fallen foul of the politicians to the west and north west of the Park. Putting it underground would be great but probably too expensive while a cutting would effectively split the Park in two. A 30kph speed limit with average speed cameras and an automated fine system might dramatically reduce the attractiveness of the Avenue as a major commuter route and could be a stepping stone to eventually closing it.

bilbot79 · 01-11-2020 9:12pm

They should extend the luas line into the park with 2 or 3 stops along Chesterfield Avenue. The journey from Houston through the park should then be free

Peregrine · 01-11-2020 9:15pm

bilbot79 wrote: »

They should extend the luas line into the park with 2 or 3 stops along Chesterfield Avenue. The journey from Houston through the park should then be free

Where would the Luas go when it gets to Heuston?

Seth Brundle · 01-11-2020 9:23pm

bilbot79 wrote: »

They should extend the luas line into the park with 2 or 3 stops along Chesterfield Avenue. The journey from Houston through the park should then be free

...and this would be paid for how?

07Lapierre · 01-11-2020 9:24pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

...and this would be paid for how?

Road tax naturally

Peregrine · 01-11-2020 9:28pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

...and this would be paid for how?

Like, we're talking €150m to build it. Then there's the operating costs.

Buses may not be fashionable but they work.

bazermc · 01-11-2020 9:32pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

Road tax naturally

I fought that paid for the footpads?

KevRossi · 01-11-2020 11:47pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

...and this would be paid for how?

Taxes, with the resulting payback in less hours lost through sitting in traffic. Some payback initially through people working on the construction project.

Peregrine wrote: »

Like, we're talking €150m to build it. Then there's the operating costs.

Buses may not be fashionable but they work.

It would cost a lot less than that. Straight run, plenty of space around the lines to work on, no traffic beside them and can work 24/7 for most of it. (I'm assuming they shut the Park to traffic for this, but knowing O'Donovan he'll do the opposite).

Line runs through the Park and on to either Phoenix Park Station (especially helpful for commuters) or else on to Castleknock village, Blanch village and Blanch Shopping Centre, - or indeed both.

Public transport is also about linking up existing routes, not just thinking about going from A to B.

In the meantime dedicated bus routes along that line would be start.

Cabaal · 02-11-2020 9:11am

a148pro wrote: »

Indeed, some people do hear what they want to hear. Like anyone reading that link and purporting that it justifies a 5k restriction!

Yes for no valid reason - because anyone visiting the mountains or a forest or another recreational area within their family bubble poses zero risk to public health.

Zero you say?

Tell that to the mountain rescue volunteers throughout Ireland who have had to rescue countless people off mountains or forests during restrictions and have had to wear PPE while doing so.

It's most certainly not zero.

Bicycles, Phoenix Park and traffic

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