Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Where are the conservatives in Ireland?

Options
1…4567810»

Comments

  • Options
    #272
    hill16bhoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭hill16bhoy


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Not yet, we were extreme conservatism, but the gradual move to more and more liberal views will take it to the extreme.
    I know this won't go down well, but young boys wearing girls clothes to school was being tweeted by our health minister as something great, a man who is doing a questionable job and doesn't tweet about all his own failings as minister for health.
    Children bully other children, and all this would lead to is bullying but I see a lot of people thinking young boys going to school in girls clothing as something great. It would not work out good, and a parent who dresses their young boy up as a girl is just asking for another child to abuse their child.
    We all remember going to school and being a child and we all remember that fitting in and not sticking out lead to an easier experience.
    No parent is going to make a boy who doesn't want to dress as a girl do so.

    The whole point of gender neutral uniforms is to allow children who are experiencing gender identity issues to wear the variation of uniform they feel most comfortable with.

    That's unquestionably a good thing.

    28 years ago girls in my primary school class asked if they could wear trousers instead of skirts on cold winter mornings - they were laughed out of it by the principal. Girls were to wear skirts and that was that.

    It's good that we've moved on from that sort of authoritarian nonsense.

    Society came to terms with the idea of girls wanting to wear trousers years ago. Why should there be any difference between that and children who are experiencing gender identity issues, or indeed boys who identify as boys, wanting to wear skirts?

    Clothes are just pieces of cloth anyway, they don't have a gender. The Romans wore skirts. Scottish rugby fans wear skirts. Catholic priests wear dresses.

    Let people wear what they want to wear and feck the miserable begrudgers, it's none of their business whatsoever and it isn't harming them or harming anybody else in any way.

    Bullying in school often happens because children are brought up with backward opinions. Telling people they can't do something because other people have backward opinions is a bully's charter. Sure keep homosexuality underground because gay people need to be protected for their own good, or something something. Utter nonsense. People with backward opinions don't have a right to be protected and cocooned from other people living their lives the way they want to.

    Your uncomfortableness with people wearing what they want is irrelevant.

    Earlier on I asked you what "extreme liberalism" is, and what you foresaw Ireland "returning to" in terms of it becoming more conservative.

    Like, would we overturn the our pro-choice laws, our divorce laws, our same sex marriage laws, would we return to having something like the marriage bar in the public service etc.

    It would be really good to get some flesh on the bones of this more conservative Ireland you predict will emerge.


  • Options
    #273
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,521 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    RobertKK wrote: »
    a man who is doing a questionable job and doesn't tweet about all his own failings as minister for health.
    Have you come across many people who tweet about their own failings at anything? It seems like an odd measure to judge him by.


  • Options
    #274
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    i think a big element to modern conservatism is a resistance to throwing the baby out with bathwater when it comes to reforms - yes we need to fix things but we get a lot of things right too and just because an idea is old dosnt mean its bad, quite the reverse in some cases.

    The most vocal critics of "the west" are frequently the people who have benefited most from its fruits; human rights, personal freedoms, stable government, strong economies. I dont like ingrates.


  • Options
    #275
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,845 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    While we are socially very liberal, I'd argue economically we're still certainly right of center.

    What better description of post-war European politics in a nutshell.

    And thats the key. With the demise of church dominance over social policy and direction in Ireland and the three decade backlash against it all we have done is catch up with prevailing wind of western Europe, personal freedoms and cautious economics.

    There is absolutely no traction of any kind for American style hard combative conservatism in Ireland because oddly even the Catholic church didn't mirror the kind of southern evangelical root of that school of thought. As much as Irish people might hate to recognise the commonality, we are more naturally drawn to a model of one-nation Toryism and the Renuas of this world exceed that to the right by some distance.

    Incidentally, don't confuse the current incarnation of the Tory party in Britain with true one-nation conservatism, the two have become almost mutually exclusive, consumed as the Tories are with selfish aims and internal power struggles.


  • Options
    #276
    hill16bhoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭hill16bhoy


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    i think a big element to modern conservatism is a resistance to throwing the baby out with bathwater when it comes to reforms - yes we need to fix things but we get a lot of things right too and just because an idea is old dosnt mean its bad, quite the reverse in some cases.

    Interesting that in a post designed to big up "conservatism" you actually admit that society needs further liberal reforms.

    I wouldn't argue with that.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #277
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    hill16bhoy wrote: »
    Interesting that in a post designed to big up "conservatism" you actually admit that society needs further liberal reforms.

    I wouldn't argue with that.

    yeah, you really haven't scored the devastating point you think you have there. i never said anyhting about "liberal reforms" but yes we must make constant improvements while conserving the traditional values and ideas which have allowed us to get this far and be so succeasful.


  • Options
    #278
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    hill16bhoy wrote: »
    No parent is going to make a boy who doesn't want to dress as a girl do so.

    The whole point of gender neutral uniforms is to allow children who are experiencing gender identity issues to wear the variation of uniform they feel most comfortable with.

    That's unquestionably a good thing.

    28 years ago girls in my primary school class asked if they could wear trousers instead of skirts on cold winter mornings - they were laughed out of it by the principal. Girls were to wear skirts and that was that.

    It's good that we've moved on from that sort of authoritarian nonsense.

    Society came to terms with the idea of girls wanting to wear trousers years ago. Why should there be any difference between that and children who are experiencing gender identity issues, or indeed boys who identify as boys, wanting to wear skirts?

    Clothes are just pieces of cloth anyway, they don't have a gender. The Romans wore skirts. Scottish rugby fans wear skirts. Catholic priests wear dresses.

    Let people wear what they want to wear and feck the miserable begrudgers, it's none of their business whatsoever and it isn't harming them or harming anybody else in any way.

    Bullying in school often happens because children are brought up with backward opinions. Telling people they can't do something because other people have backward opinions is a bully's charter. Sure keep homosexuality underground because gay people need to be protected for their own good, or something something. Utter nonsense. People with backward opinions don't have a right to be protected and cocooned from other people living their lives the way they want to.

    Your uncomfortableness with people wearing what they want is irrelevant.

    Earlier on I asked you what "extreme liberalism" is, and what you foresaw Ireland "returning to" in terms of it becoming more conservative.

    Like, would we overturn the our pro-choice laws, our divorce laws, our same sex marriage laws, would we return to having something like the marriage bar in the public service etc.

    It would be really good to get some flesh on the bones of this more conservative Ireland you predict will emerge.

    There are many cases where parents who see it as a trend or a statement have forced this.

    I do not believe for one second that a primary school child can be coherently experiencing gender identity issues and it should not be tolerated to a degree where you have a school policy supporting it at that age.

    girls wearing trousers in the cold is a comfort issue and doesn't make them different or express anything about them being different to the other children. A boy wearing a dress does and we all know that.

    A transgener 5 year old is like a vegan cat, its not a choice they made themselves.


  • Options
    #279
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,521 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    There are many cases where parents who see it as a trend or a statement have forced this.

    I do not believe for one second that a primary school child can be coherently experiencing gender identity issues and it should not be tolerated to a degree where you have a school policy supporting it at that age.
    Would you like to share details of how many transgender people you've spoken to as you were building your opinion on this?


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    girls wearing trousers in the cold is a comfort issue and doesn't make them different or express anything about them being different to the other children. A boy wearing a dress does and we all know that.

    .
    Girls seem to wear trousers for lots of reasons beyond comfort. It's almost as if the type of clothing worn by genders evolves over time, like the way that Irish boys used to wear skirts all the time.



    From http://www.maggieblanck.com/Mayopages/People.html



    DohertyJ050310.jpg

    What particular difficulty does it cause for you if a primary school boy chooses to wear a skirt?


  • Options
    #280
    hill16bhoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭hill16bhoy


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    yeah, you really haven't scored the devastating point you think you have there. i never said anyhting about "liberal reforms" but yes we must make constant improvements while conserving the traditional values and ideas which have allowed us to get this far and be so succeasful.
    You said "we need to fix things" and the clear implication was that the "fixing things" would be in a more liberal direction.

    Now you say we "need to make constant improvements".

    Perhaps you could flesh out the "things that need to be fixed" and the "constant improvements" you're calling for?

    I'm just interested, is all.


Advertisement