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If the Green Party got into government are they mad

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    #572
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,459 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    abcabc123123 wrote: »
    Is Geuze a Green Party official?

    Don't get personal please.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #573
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    In fairness, how was one off housing scattered everywhere ever going to be sustainable? It makes services impossible to provide and means everyone is totally reliant on cars.

    In fairness, one off housing is not a new phenomenon in Ireland. Both for farms but also there are many villages in rural Ireland that are linear in nature and you'd be hard put to say where the centre of the village is. It's a traditional pattern in places.

    That said, I don't think we should unnecessarily adding to it. There's enough existing housing in rural area, towns and villages that can be done up and lived in, rather than imposing new structures on the landscape.


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    #574
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,885 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    In fairness, one off housing is not a new phenomenon in Ireland. Both for farms but also there are many villages in rural Ireland that are linear in nature and you'd be hard put to say where the centre of the village is. It's a traditional pattern in places.

    That said, I don't think we should unnecessarily adding to it. There's enough existing housing in rural area, towns and villages that can be done up and lived in, rather than imposing new structures on the landscape.

    But it seems inherent in Irish psyche to want to build a house on a bit of land away from other houses. I don't think that'll change any time soon, it's just trying to work around this that's the problem. Also most of them seem to look like they've been built in the last 20 years!


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    #575
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,129 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    But it seems inherent in Irish psyche to want to build a house on a bit of land away from other houses. I don't think that'll change any time soon, it's just trying to work around this that's the problem. Also most of them seem to look like they've been built in the last 20 years!

    But theres a reason why houses are built like this, they are on the family land.

    Can't build them all in the centre of a village when the land is not there.


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    #576
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,088 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    NIMAN wrote: »
    But theres a reason why houses are built like this, they are on the family land.

    Can't build them all in the centre of a village when the land is not there.

    The sky is there, build up.

    Living on the family land is fine, but not if you also need to commute 40 miles to work everyday.

    People lived on family land when pretty much their entire lives revolved around the farm and the local town/village.
    Not when they are commuting to Dublin.


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    #577
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    No it's really bad, we have the most road per capita in EU. If you drive anywhere in the country it's just endless bungalows everywhere. Compare it with other Euro nations and you don't see it much at all, even in the UK.

    Endless bungalows would be ideal in a way, problem is they aren't, they're scattered here and there but as we're tiny compared to the EU/UK it's not such a big problem, the big issue is doing something about networking these areas together rather than simply wagging a finger at them - it is what it is so deal with it rather than sitting on a high horse and saying it shouldn't be this way as the greenies do.


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    #578
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    In fairness, how was one off housing scattered everywhere ever going to be sustainable? It makes services impossible to provide and means everyone is totally reliant on cars.

    +100

    Indeed, one-off rural housing is anti-rural Ireland, as it reduces the viability of villages and small towns.


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    #579
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    NIMAN wrote: »
    But theres a reason why houses are built like this, they are on the family land.

    Can't build them all in the centre of a village when the land is not there.

    Fair enough, we need to zone land around villages for the construction of houses.

    One-off houses if that's what people want, ok.

    But within 1km of schools, shops, etc.


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    #580
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    bladespin wrote: »
    Endless bungalows would be ideal in a way, problem is they aren't, they're scattered here and there but as we're tiny compared to the EU/UK it's not such a big problem, the big issue is doing something about networking these areas together rather than simply wagging a finger at them - it is what it is so deal with it rather than sitting on a high horse and saying it shouldn't be this way as the greenies do.


    I don't mind the small houses dotted around, it is changing and councils are starting to restrict those buildings. But you have a huge loop hole by buying an old shed and then just building on it.


    You are correct Ireland is small, we also have a massive percentage of our roads system with a very low km limit. The amount of 50km/h and 80km/h roads in Ireland is huge.



    Hence why.....you knew I was going somewhere......Ireland is perfect for electric cars. The older electric cars get the best performance at 80km-100km per hour. Above this and your kwh/100km rises sharly. The thing is most roads or well over 95% of them you legally cannot travel over 80km let alone 100km/h....buy or build a house in middle of nowhere, but insulate it, install a heat pump, install a charge point and buy an electric car.....sticking a tank on the side and hiding the fact you are buying tractor diesel for your car??? those days are gone


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    #581
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,231 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    NIMAN wrote: »
    But theres a reason why houses are built like this, they are on the family land.

    Can't build them all in the centre of a village when the land is not there.

    The land is there, it's just not as cheap to buy a site in a village compared to mammy and daddy giving you a half-acre site on the farm.

    It's another typically Irish 'sure, what's the harm' planning policy that has lead to the death of rural towns and villages and placed huge strain on the infrastructure network.

    No other country would entertain this kind of one off housing policy and it's still happening regularly.


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    #582
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,248 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    The land is there, it's just not as cheap to buy a site in a village compared to mammy and daddy giving you a half-acre site on the farm.

    It's another typically Irish 'sure, what's the harm' planning policy that has lead to the death of rural towns and villages and placed huge strain on the infrastructure network.

    No other country would entertain this kind of one off housing policy and it's still happening regularly.



    You are 100% correct.

    This planning policy is what has made public services so expensive to deliver in Ireland but also why we are so bad on environmental issues.

    Don't forget the empty barrel out the back to burn all the rubbish in once a week.


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    #583
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,459 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Mod: Can we keep focused on the Green party please and not have this turn into yet another rural vs urban Ireland thread please. Thanks.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #584
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,129 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    GreeBo wrote: »

    Living on the family land is fine, but not if you also need to commute 40 miles to work everyday.

    People lived on family land when pretty much their entire lives revolved around the farm and the local town/village.
    Not when they are commuting to Dublin.

    I would hazard a guess that most of the people in Ireland commuting to Dublin or other cities DON'T live on their family land.

    So why are those folk not getting abuse?


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    #585
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,088 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    NIMAN wrote: »
    I would hazard a guess that most of the people in Ireland commuting to Dublin or other cities DON'T live on their family land.

    So why are those folk not getting abuse?

    I don't think anyone is getting abused; but there has been plenty of criticism of people commuting long distances (especially when those people are complaining about being taxed based on their pollution)


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    #586
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,638 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    The core of the issue is the greens getting enough seats to have an impact. I doubt that will happen, thankfully.


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    #587
    cutelad
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭cutelad


    The green lobby loonies are mainly city folk. On here I see how rude they are to good folk living in the country. With Brexit looming a down in our economy it will sharpen minds. We can't afford stealth taxes. It will be rich city folk against country folk.


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    #588
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,088 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    eagle eye wrote: »
    The core of the issue is the greens getting enough seats to have an impact. I doubt that will happen, thankfully.

    I don't think it will be a green only issue for long.

    EU fines are gong to be an issue for whoever is in power, Leo already brings it up frequently enough.


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    #589
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,885 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I don't think it will be a green only issue for long.

    EU fines are gong to be an issue for whoever is in power, Leo already brings it up frequently enough.

    I heard a farmer once again saying we produce beef and dairy cleaner than any country in EU on Morning Ireland the other day. Teagasc and the UN say we are the worst.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/irish-agriculture-greenwashing-its-climate-impact-an-taisce-1.3855084
    The environmental group said a recent United Nations report found Ireland to be the “most carbon-intensive beef producer in Europe”

    I don't know who to believe.

    I doubt even the greens would try and reduce how much beef and dairy we produce though.


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    #590
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    eagle eye wrote: »
    The core of the issue is the greens getting enough seats to have an impact. I doubt that will happen, thankfully.

    FF and FG will be making th decision, even if Green are in or out of government


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    #591
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    blanch152 wrote: »
    The idea of increased fuel prices is to punish those who made unsustainable life choices. Nobody in government ever forced anyone to live on top of a hill in the middle of nowhere. Neither did they force anyone to travel 100kms a day to work. All of that is individual choice. If carbon taxes force people to make more sustainable individual choices, then that can only be good.

    none of this provides an answer to the question I raised. Though who lives on a hill and travels 100 kms a day to work, and whoever that is, whats it got to to do with the idea of providing suitable public transport before carbon taxing people to get to work?

    It quite simply has nothing to do with the issue and and doesnt provide any answers.


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    #592
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    blanch152 wrote: »
    The idea of increased fuel prices is to punish those who made unsustainable life choices. Nobody in government ever forced anyone to live on top of a hill in the middle of nowhere. Neither did they force anyone to travel 100kms a day to work. All of that is individual choice. If carbon taxes force people to make more sustainable individual choices, then that can only be good.

    somebody living in a county surrounding dublin who works in the city in finance or tech where there are no local options, who is still living on the family farm because they can't afford a house or are caring for elderly parents is a very common scenario here.


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    #593
    cutelad
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭cutelad


    I simply think it's a joke if we don't put infrastructure in place to support the option government want. So say in Kerry have 100 points of electric charge ippoints support community. Why 100 locations you ask? Because it's for tourism. Loonie Greens want to ban local airports send them tourist to Dublin then transport them to Kerry by bus. Joke


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