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If the Green Party got into government are they mad

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    #542
    cutelad
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭cutelad


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Just to note, I live in countryside, 3 years with electric car and used a public charger 5 times I think....rest of the time everything is done at home. My car is the Gen 1 version so about half of what the standard battery you get today


    My mother, well she has Leaf Gen 1, doesn't even have an account with eCars....woudn't know how to plug the car into a public charger....she lives in the middle of nowhere......


    Infrastructure for most people is your own home.Whichsuit people in country better because they will have a house, not a flat, and they will have a driveway, not public parking......

    If you were a parent with the usual running around to schools, gaa and drama groups so a heavy user of car, what would a full charge cost? How long to charge?


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    #543
    cutelad
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭cutelad


    abcabc123123 wrote: »
    This is bizarre - almost a total inversion of reality. It's the government who have been regularly espousing personal action to combat climate change. The Greens recently have opposed the new runway at Dublin Airport, the Galway bypass, granting new drilling exploration licences, and support taxing airplane fuel.

    I know its off topic but is Galway not crying out for a bypass?


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    #544
    cutelad
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭cutelad


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Your just trolling.....

    I already told you I live in countryside, my family all live in what most people would classify as the "middle of nowhere".

    We all seem to be able to recycle, using the very difficult 3 colour coded bin system, insulate our house, and we have 3 electric cars and growing. One of them been the 1st Gen Leaf

    So just because you don't live in a town doesn't mean you cannot move towards more green options

    In regards to the price of cars? How many cars at the moment are 15k new? doesn't matter what fuel they are using?

    15k will get you a very very good second hand electric car, the same way it will get you a very good second hand petrol/diesel.

    So instead of trolling, come up with 1 decent suggestion, because so far all I have read from you is a lot of rubbish.....none of which is relevant.....

    Still dont understand how you dont understand the bin system????just watching my 3 year old and he knows which bin to throw plastic into and which to throw rubbish....

    We dont use bins as too expensive so use the council drop off point. 5 euro a big bag into the tip. Many people get pulled up regarding what plastics we could recycle, I was even told by council staff to go away and wash some plastic bottles. I took them and never returned them.

    So my point regarding electric cars is if we are really serious why not make them cheap so it would push people that direction.

    My point is use the carrot carrot carrot. I listen to Greens and the report by FG and its use the stick. If you used a major price reduction on electric cars I bet the uptake would increase big time. But maybe for once could this country put infrastructure in place first. Infrastructure in every town and village in Ireland not just Dublin. Charging points.
    Would anyone say that there should be a different pricing structure for charging cars? Keep the prices low.


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    #545
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,734 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    cutelad wrote: »
    I know its off topic but is Galway not crying out for a bypass?

    Mod: Please take this to the Galway forum, not here.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #546
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    cutelad wrote: »
    If you were a parent with the usual running around to schools, gaa and drama groups so a heavy user of car, what would a full charge cost? How long to charge?

    Thats not a heavy use of a car!


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    #547
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    cutelad wrote: »
    But maybe for once could this country put infrastructure in place first. Infrastructure in every town and village in Ireland not just Dublin. Charging points.

    The electorate like to complain about infrastructure but constantly favour Parties that prioritise tax cuts and current spending above Capital.

    'Just put in the infrastructure first' whether it is about public transport, water or charging points is just handy excuse for most to justify not wanting to pay for something.


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    #548
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    cutelad wrote: »
    If you were a parent with the usual running around to schools, gaa and drama groups so a heavy user of car, what would a full charge cost? How long to charge?


    I have 3 kids, so I have school, creche, GAA, Jiu jitsu, swimming, gymnastics and all the other daily runs you have to do.



    Yes we have a diesel, but it is the back up, the electric is used for everything. If both of us are off the diesel could sit for 2 weeks and not get moved from driveway.


    How long it takes? no idea exactly, its plugged in at nightime and its fully charged in morning. Also car set to perfect temp before I get in.



    I replaced an A6 with my electric, I was paying 1600 at least on diesel per year. In the first year I done more mileage and it cost me circa 200-300 on electricity. That was with no public charging. Also the service costs are nothing and the tax is 120 or something like that......also it wasn't an old A6, it was a 2011 new model and was in perfect condition



    People ask me why I moved to electric, I turn around and ask them why would you not move to electric?


    I have a diesel for size, an electric 7 seater Galaxy/SMAX size vehicle is not available. Once it is that will be gone tomorrow morning.


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    #549
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    The electorate like to complain about infrastructure but constantly favour Parties that prioritise tax cuts and current spending above Capital.

    'Just put in the infrastructure first' whether it is about public transport, water or charging points is just handy excuse for most to justify not wanting to pay for something.

    "just put it in" but I'm not paying for it and don't put it near me.


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    #550
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Its not a double standard... it's suitable locations.

    Sorry GreeBo, it is a double standard. Dublin, Cork whatever will be deemed unsuitable locations for industrial scale wind turbines etc because too many residents would object to them. Rural areas will be considered suitable, because there are fewer residents there and their views can be steamrollered. That's the bottom line.
    cutelad wrote: »
    So my point regarding electric cars is if we are really serious why not make them cheap so it would push people that direction.
    My point is use the carrot carrot carrot. I listen to Greens and the report by FG and its use the stick. If you used a major price reduction on electric cars I bet the uptake would increase big time. But maybe for once could this country put infrastructure in place first. Infrastructure in every town and village in Ireland not just Dublin. Charging points. Would anyone say that there should be a different pricing structure for charging cars? Keep the prices low.

    This is happening initially with grants and free public charging but it's plainly not sustainable into the future. Mechanised transport requires energy input and it doesn't matter much whether that's from fossil fuels or renewables, this energy has a cost to make and distribute. Cars and batteries have substantial costs. So people & the environment are going to pay one way or the other, there's no free lunch. The only long term solution is to start depopulating the world of humans and/or make do with a lot less energy use.


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    #551
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Sorry GreeBo, it is a double standard. Dublin, Cork whatever will be deemed unsuitable locations for industrial scale wind turbines etc because too many residents would object to them. Rural areas will be considered suitable, because there are fewer residents there and their views can be steamrollered. That's the bottom line.
    You can keep saying it but it wont make it any more true.
    The view of many are already "blighted" with the farms off Bray head.

    The reason they are not all over Dublin and Cork is because Dublin and Cork are full of *people* and expensive land.
    A 2 MW turbine needs about 1.5 acres. Would you be willing to pay for that in Dublin?
    BarryD2 wrote: »

    This is happening initially with grants and free public charging but it's plainly not sustainable into the future. Mechanised transport requires energy input and it doesn't matter much whether that's from fossil fuels or renewables, this energy has a cost to make and distribute. Cars and batteries have substantial costs. So people & the environment are going to pay one way or the other, there's no free lunch. The only long term solution is to start depopulating the world with humans and/or make do with a lot less energy use.

    Ok, mass genocide apart, if we can agree that renewables are better for the environment then we might as well move to them since we are going to pay for fossil fuels anyway, right?


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    #552
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Sorry GreeBo, it is a double standard. Dublin, Cork whatever will be deemed unsuitable locations for industrial scale wind turbines etc because too many residents would object to them. Rural areas will be considered suitable, because there are fewer residents there and their views can be steamrollered. That's the bottom line..


    A certain Irish company had the idea and have designed large wind turbine which can sit out in the ocean. Far away from anyone on land etc.....government are unwilling to pay for them. So they position in land, in area's with lower populations.

    It is also worht remembering these devices need wind, in major cities the wind is reduced because of the surrounds building etc so you are paying a huge amount of money for a device that would maybe work at 50% of capacity??? fairly pointless.....after all it is our taxes that pay for it

    They need to be placed in optimal position so they can get close to capacity, that is not in a city

    I have never gone to Netherlands and seen a wind turbine or even the old wind mills sitting in the middle of a city


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    #553
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,796 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Shefwedfan wrote:
    Additional taxes on diesel etc have been talked about for years, why everyone is surprised now is shocking? In reality they should have done this 2-3 years ago when it would have made a difference
    Simple solution, tax airlines and all other environmentally unfriendly businesses, put all that money into subsidising electric cars and other environment friendly things.


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    #554
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,337 ✭✭✭bladespin


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Sorry GreeBo, it is a double standard. Dublin, Cork whatever will be deemed unsuitable locations for industrial scale wind turbines etc because too many residents would object to them. Rural areas will be considered suitable, because there are fewer residents there and their views can be steamrollered. That's the bottom line.

    I'd say it has much more to do with turbulent wind caused by highly populated and built areas rather than the residents themselves.


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    #555
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,147 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    cutelad wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong are we not taxed to the hilt on diesel?

    You are wrong.

    Our fuel excises are by no means the highest in the EU.


    https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/excise-duties-alcohol-tobacco-energy/excise-duties-energy_en

    https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/sites/taxation/files/resources/documents/taxation/excise_duties/energy_products/rates/excise_duties-part_ii_energy_products_en.pdf


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    #556
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,147 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    cutelad wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong are we not taxed to the hilt on diesel?

    EU min excise on gas oil = 330 euro per 1000L or 33c per litre.


    DE = 470 / 485

    Finland = 530

    Italy = 617

    Ireland = 479 incl carbon tax element of 53.30


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    #557
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,956 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    cutelad wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong are we not taxed to the hilt on diesel?

    Diesel is abnormally cheap here compared to petrol when you look at other countries.

    Both are below the EU average.


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    #558
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,147 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    cutelad wrote: »
    I see on this thread that the green agenda is Dublin based. Greens want all us country folk to move to cities

    No they don't.

    Sensible people want no more one-off rural houses, and for people to live in villages and towns.


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    #559
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,147 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    eagle eye wrote: »
    So if somebody chooses to live where they were brought up to mind their aging parents they should be punished for it?

    If you choose to live in a one-off rural house, and therefore cause higher car usage, higher fuel use, and live more environmentally unsustainably, yes you should pay more carbon taxes.

    Punished?

    No, it's not a crime.

    You choose this lifestyle.


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    #560
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Simple solution, tax airlines and all other environmentally unfriendly businesses, put all that money into subsidising electric cars and other environment friendly things.


    How?

    How exactly will you tax airlines if the rest of the World doesn't agree?

    Charge them more to land in Dublin? They just won't land in Dublin.

    Charge them more to base themselves in Dublin? they will just pull out and you will be left with Aerlingus as solo provider....with huge costs to try and travel

    How many jobs are going to be lost if Ryanair and Emirates pull out of Dublin? if nobody is landing might as well cancel second runway?

    Do you know how many passangers fly in/out of Dublin....30 million....maybe it doesn't seem high. But lets it this way. 60 million go via Heathrow. Yes it is double but how many terminals does heathrow have?

    We need some ideas which doesnt end up with a huge chuck of work force on the dole queue and the country economy crippled

    Imagine trying to tell a US company who wanted to invest we had no air travel in & out?


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    #561
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    bladespin wrote: »
    I'd say it has much more to do with turbulent wind caused by highly populated and built areas rather than the residents themselves.

    It's to do with land cost and availability mostly.

    If an average heactare of agricultural land in Dublin costs €35k, and you need 500 hectares for a mid-size wind-farm, that equates to nearly €20 million quid before you've even stuck a spade in the ground.

    Not to mention how difficult it would be to acquire that amount of land in a county like Dublin or Kildare where there is competing pressure from residential and commercial sectors on the land use.


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    #562
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,927 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    average_runner wrote: »
    You forget the working age profile is getting older so cycling wont work for all of us, so we would need the public transport to be up to scratch.

    Bullsh*t. My Dad cycled 9k each way to work until he retired. I intend to do the same.


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    #563
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,927 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    As for people giving out about what the Greens did last time they were in power - what political party that ever existed in Ireland can you look back at and say they did a good job while in power? Look at FG now with the children's hospital and the broadband debacle and the housing crisis. Look what FF did last time they were in power. The Greens look pretty saintly compared to them.
    We can just assume all politicians will be incompetent in this country, but for me I voted Green because at least they have some kind of vision that appeals to me.


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    #564
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    I like to see the Greens doing OK but I'm a bit wary of this current type of Green thinking here which can be summarised as:

    1) the population to live in cities & towns

    2) slap heavy carbon taxes on transport and heating fuels

    3) replace fossil fuels with electricity generated from multiple wind and solar farms

    and hey presto, we can all carry on as now, in the lifestyles we've become accustomed to.

    It's a technological vision viewed through green tinted glasses and as unsustainable a solution for humanity and the planet as what prevails currently. A false promise.


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    #565
    abcabc123123
    Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭abcabc123123


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    It's a technological vision viewed through green tinted glasses and as unsustainable a solution for humanity and the planet as what prevails currently. A false promise.
    It's also far closer to Fine Gael's approach to climate change than the Green Party's.


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    #566
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    Geuze wrote: »
    If you choose to live in a one-off rural house, and therefore cause higher car usage, higher fuel use, and live more environmentally unsustainably, yes you should pay more carbon taxes.

    Punished?

    No, it's not a crime.

    You choose this lifestyle.
    Exactly the type of rhetoric that means the Green party will never get into power as a majority, thankfully. "We care, but screw you".


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    #567
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,927 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    Exactly the type of rhetoric that means the Green party will never get into power as a majority, thankfully. "We care, but screw you".

    In fairness, how was one off housing scattered everywhere ever going to be sustainable? It makes services impossible to provide and means everyone is totally reliant on cars.


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    #568
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,337 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    In fairness, how was one off housing scattered everywhere ever going to be sustainable? It makes services impossible to provide and means everyone is totally reliant on cars.

    True but the problem is that it is what it is and they have to deal with that and the people affected rather than throw it back on them as if they 'chose' to live that way.

    That said we do have a lot of one-off houses here but we're not nearly as scattered as is mad out, Ireland as a whole is a pretty small so there's no excuse for not having some sort of workable network of services.


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    #569
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,927 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    bladespin wrote: »
    True but the problem is that it is what it is and they have to deal with that and the people affected rather than throw it back on them as if they 'chose' to live that way.

    That said we do have a lot of one-off houses here but we're not nearly as scattered as is mad out, Ireland as a whole is a pretty small so there's no excuse for not having some sort of workable network of services.

    No it's really bad, we have the most road per capita in EU. If you drive anywhere in the country it's just endless bungalows everywhere. Compare it with other Euro nations and you don't see it much at all, even in the UK.


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    #570
    abcabc123123
    Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭abcabc123123


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    Exactly the type of rhetoric that means the Green party will never get into power as a majority, thankfully. "We care, but screw you".
    Is Geuze a Green Party official?


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    #571
    abcabc123123
    Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭abcabc123123


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    No it's really bad, we have the most road per capita in EU. If you drive anywhere in the country it's just endless bungalows everywhere. Compare it with other Euro nations and you don't see it much at all, even in the UK.
    Indeed. I always find it striking to see all the newly built bungalows on the roads into small Irish towns, and then all of the derelict terrraced houses in the towns themselves. It's terrible planning.


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