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HKC ALARM Installation

1235789

Comments

  • #202
    tangoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 264 ✭✭tangoman


    there is the new type master pt socket with outlets for alarm cables so i have been told


  • #203
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Yeah but I prefer to give it to the alarm first & use a dedicated filter if required.
    Pull that Eircom socket off the wall & your alarms without a line.


  • #204
    tangoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 264 ✭✭tangoman


    the wires from ABCD from panel are coming into the pt socket there are one white two blue and one orange socket as photos the main line comes into the back part of this socket.Thw white and orange are marked in and out.The blue one below the orange is marked LI R L2 the other blue is S1 R S2.
    Was told to connect alarm wires into the orange socket is this correct and if so are there special crimp terminals or just push wires in and press.

    Also I have two other pt sockets in other parts of house and was told to take two wires from the blue socket under rthe orange and link to other sockets but which do I use L1 AND L2 OR R AND L1 OR 2


  • #205
    BowWow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭BowWow


    Great thread.
    Installing a Securewatch 8/12 replacing old kit.
    1. Smoke alarm is old EI one 20+ years old - should I replace? If so, any recommendations - would Texecom Exodus OH4W be a good one?
    2. Have a Conservatory (10sq mtres)and want to install a PIR. Conservatory gets quite hot in Summer - is there a special PIR that should be used?
    thanks..


  • #206
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Why would you install an 8/12 ? Why not go with a newer panel like the 1070 or Siemens.
    The 8/12 is an old system now.
    Any smoke detector that's 12 volt with a relay would do fine.
    For the conservatory get a duel tec PiR.


  • #207
    BowWow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭BowWow


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Why would you install an 8/12 ? Why not go with a newer panel like the 1070 or Siemens.
    The 8/12 is an old system now.
    Any smoke detector that's 12 volt with a relay would do fine.
    For the conservatory get a duel tec PiR.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056859175 Post 15:)


  • #208
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Sorry user name didn't register with me from there. Have you opened that panel yet? If not I'd try for an exchange with the supplier. Tell them you thought that was the one with wireless or something to that effect.


  • #209
    BowWow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭BowWow


    Unfortunately bought it some months ago. As I'm redecorating I've put RKP in the porch, have the panel in cloakroom and have run lots of the cables in etc. I'll live with it. To be honest I prefer things wired up as opposed to wireless. Plan is to do as much as I can, then probably get a professional in to commission.
    Thanks..


  • #210
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    All the best with it. It is a good reliable panel, its just there's better out there for the same money.
    If you need any help you know where we are.


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  • #211
    BowWow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭BowWow


    Thanks, I've no doubt I'll be back to you. Have read this full thread and some others and have learned lots - really impressed by the way you guys help "laymen".


  • #212
    Thunderbird2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Thunderbird2


    Just be careful where you place the keypad . Some companies place them right in view of any potential thieves at windows .. It's not that hard to see the code ;)


  • #213
    BowWow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭BowWow


    Can I start with easy questions?
    One of the Zones on the old alarm was just for the landing window, no opening, so no contacts - just an Itec sensor. 4 wires, I assume I put the red and black into "Alarm" and the blue and yellow into "Tamper" on the Securewatch Zone that I select, having removed the "links" from the terminals. Should I fit a 4k7? If so where?


  • #214
    Thunderbird2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Thunderbird2


    Yes


  • #215
    BowWow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭BowWow


    Sorry, yes to which bit?


  • #216
    Thunderbird2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Thunderbird2


    If its a shock sensor on the landing window it's red / black = alarm
    Blue / yellow = tamper


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  • #217
    BowWow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭BowWow


    Thanks. Should I fit the resistor?


  • #218
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    What way have you set up zone hardware in the programming?


  • #219
    BowWow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭BowWow


    Was going to do all wiring before programming - is this not possible?


  • #220
    One united
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭One united


    Sounds to me like u just put the panel on the wall it will come factory set not to use any resistors except on the outside box it can be commissioned to use the resistors but in a domestic situation I don't see any need
    As for the colours make them up just make sure u use the same colours at the panel
    First thing I would do is take out all the existing contacts /sensors then
    bell all the cables and mark at the panel then decide on your colour code (I've seen some very strange ways of how some guys wire things especially if there are resistors originally involved in the old aretec cs350 there are two sizes of resistor used, one type for the contact and the other for the tamper ,on the same zone.
    So better off starting from scratch
    Use the drawing that comes in the booklet it has everything you need to know about the panel in.
    For commissioning use the centre pages
    It might looking daunting but its quiet easy


  • #221
    BowWow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭BowWow


    One united - I'm replacing an old system. Using black&red for "alarm" and using blue&yellow for "tamper". Reason I'm asking about the resistor is that I though different manufacturer's used different resistors and that HKC used 4k7. Top two diagrams in instructions 2.3 can be read as either needing or not needing a resistor fitted, especially diagram for single EOL on retrofit in a previous system.
    I have taken the resistor from the panel for the SAAB connections as there is one in the bell box - learned that earlier in the thread:)
    Panel is in, with power, although I havn't put fuse back in mains consumer unit. Keypad in and connected. Line to SAAB in and connected at panel - hope to put Saab up at w/e depending on weather. Collecting new smoke detector and PIR for conservatory tomorrow - wires in for them, but no doubt I'll have a few questions:o
    I'm leaving the EE and other downstairs Zones till last as existing wiring on these is a nightmare.


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  • #222
    One united
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭One united


    BowWow wrote: »
    One united - I'm replacing an old system. Using black&red for "alarm" and using blue&yellow for "tamper". Reason I'm asking about the resistor is that I though different manufacturer's used different resistors and that HKC used 4k7. Top two diagrams in instructions 2.3 can be read as either needing or not needing a resistor fitted, especially diagram for single EOL on retrofit in a previous system.
    I have taken the resistor from the panel for the SAAB connections as there is one in the bell box - learned that earlier in the thread:)
    Panel is in, with power, although I havn't put fuse back in mains consumer unit. Keypad in and connected. Line to SAAB in and connected at panel - hope to put Saab up at w/e depending on weather. Collecting new smoke detector and PIR for conservatory tomorrow - wires in for them, but no doubt I'll have a few questions:o
    I'm leaving the EE and other downstairs Zones till last as existing wiring on these is a nightmare.
    Hkc does use 4k7 but only use on the Saab forget the zones
    Throw away any other esp if your getting a new Saab
    Take one of the 4k7 from the pack and connect to the out side connections ,Saab hold one leg and to panel connection the other leg
    On the inside panel these connections are mimicked with another resistor take that one out throw it away (this one has its legs cut short and will not reach across the connections in the Saab ) connect cables in here,going outside you also have ex sounder pair and strobe pair which is doubled up with the internal sounder connections in the panel ,six cables in total
    You know I wouldn't connect any of the zones till all the rest is done leave the links in and do them one at a time at your ease (by the way the links are creating the loop zone and tamper out on first leg returning on the next get your Saab going your internal sounder your keypad your battery's connected and turn on, get ready to put in 1111 to stop the noise ill leave this thread open and it will mail me if u have an issue


  • #223
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    One United is correct. If you're not changing the settings in zone hardware then don't use any resistors on the zones.
    For the external bell you use a single 4k7 resistor in series with the Tamper return.


  • #224
    BowWow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭BowWow


    Hi guys,
    does attached look ok? Thinking of going with Option 2 and terminating the Tamper in the Shock sensor.
    Thanks for any advice.


  • #225
    One united
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭One united


    BowWow wrote: »
    Hi guys,
    does attached look ok? Thinking of going with Option 2 and terminating the Tamper in the Shock sensor.
    Thanks for any advice.
    Don't attach tamper to shock as it is always "live" even when the alarm is not armed so you open a window and it goes off even when dis armed ,not sure how to follow your drawing but keep looping the red wire through the contacts and shocks and at end return to the panel with the black


  • #226
    BowWow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭BowWow


    Thanks One united.
    I'm now looking at the existing porch wiring. Diagram attached - tried to keep simple. I have two queries on this - 1 The blue/yellow tamper is not used at all, surely it should be? and 2, the black/red terminate on one side of the shock sensor - should it not be either side of the "switch"?


  • #227
    One united
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭One united


    BowWow wrote: »
    Thanks One united.
    I'm now looking at the existing porch wiring. Diagram attached - tried to keep simple. I have two queries on this - 1 The blue/yellow tamper is not used at all, surely it should be? and 2, the black/red terminate on one side of the shock sensor - should it not be either side of the "switch"?
    Right understand that drawing the black and red should be in a and b separately it has been bypassed must be something wrong with it maybe sensor was too sensitive or broken get a meter and bell it out to see is it ok
    You can either introduce the tampers into the loop or not ,are the contacts the sealed type?or are they the terminal type? if terminal type then there is no tamper in them anyway but the shock at the end of the loop has one deff so you could connect it all the way along and use it at the end for the shock


  • #228
    BowWow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭BowWow


    Thanks.
    Contacts are terminal type.


  • #229
    BowWow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭BowWow


    Week in bed with flu - just getting back to this.
    Please see image.


    Q1. What 2 terminals do I use for the PA?
    Q2. Have connected + and - to new smoke alarm, but what 2 terminals do I use for the relay part of it?


  • #230
    One united
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭One united


    BowWow wrote: »
    Week in bed with flu - just getting back to this.
    Please see image.


    Q1. What 2 terminals do I use for the PA?
    Q2. Have connected + and - to new smoke alarm, but what 2 terminals do I use for the relay part of it?
    Both into two diff zones and at programming stage it's changed in zone types leave tampers looped and un used


  • #231
    One united
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭One united


    One united wrote: »
    Both into two diff zones and at programming stage it's changed in zone types leave tampers looped and un used
    Sorry read question again on smoke red black +and - 12v green and yellow into zone that's the relay n/c


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  • #232
    BowWow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭BowWow


    Sorry, don't understand. I have a six core wire coming from upstairs. Blue and yellow from the PA in the bedroom. Black, red, green and white from the smoke alarm. I have put the red and black to the 12v on the panel. There are 4 terminals marked Fire PA,etc. on the panel - see image. I'm trying to figure how blue, yellow, green and white fit to these 4 terminals - 01,02,03 and 04...


  • #233
    One united
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭One united


    BowWow wrote: »
    Sorry, don't understand. I have a six core wire coming from upstairs. Blue and yellow from the PA in the bedroom. Black, red, green and white from the smoke alarm. I have put the red and black to the 12v on the panel. There are 4 terminals marked Fire PA,etc. on the panel - see image. I'm trying to figure how blue, yellow, green and white fit to these 4 terminals - 01,02,03 and 04...
    Ok those connections are for a digi dialler and can be confusing don't use them use a normal zone and it can be changed in zone types later(see centre pages) those connections are if you have an old dialler and one of the zones are changed in zone types to let's say fire then the head goes off panel spots and makes a switch and goes out on that fire connection to a Digi dialler and rings whoever to tell them there is a fire at your house kind of old technology ,now the panel can come with a" panel mounted pcb digi" that doesn't need any internal wires(plugs into the pcb left hand side High lookes like a series of holes good idea and not too expensive if u have a phone line) so black and red 12volts ,white and green into spare zone later to be changed in zone types to fire .blue and white in a diff spare zone later to be changed in zone types to pa hope this helps


  • #234
    Light Buzzyear
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Light Buzzyear


    Hi Guys,

    I'm wiring an internal echo bell on a HKC SW812 and want to connect the tamper wiring for it through the external bell tamper terminals on the panel (I could wire it into the tamper terminals on a free zone instead but I'd prefer not to as this would require a zone expander just to accommodate the internal bell). Could you advise on the best way of accomplishing this? Currently I have the tamper resistor in the SABB. Can I run the yellow tamper return from the SABB to the internal bell tamper and then back to the external bell tamper return terminal on the panel? Or do I need to add/change a tamper resistor either on the SABB or the internal bell?

    Any input would be appreciated.


  • #235
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Light Buzzyear wrote: »
    Can I run the yellow tamper return from the SABB to the internal bell tamper and then back to the external bell tamper return terminal on the panel?

    That would work perfectly.


  • #236
    kevh1987
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭kevh1987


    Hi all, I have a question for the experienced alarm guys on here, im an electrician and have fitted quite a few alarms. Im very picky when it comes to doing a neat job and the one thing I struggle with is bringing cables to window and doors neatly. Any advice or tips from the experts? Thanks guys.


  • #237
    Thunderbird2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Thunderbird2


    Have you ever fished a cable down through PVC windows ? easy enough to do :D very neat and then seal any holes with brown or white silicon gel or some installers like to use brown or white thin trunking .


  • #238
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Cables go nicely down the tracks of PVC windows. If you wish to work around and seams drill each side and cover it with a junction box.


  • #239
    altor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭altor


    kevh1987 wrote: »
    Hi all, I have a question for the experienced alarm guys on here, im an electrician and have fitted quite a few alarms. Im very picky when it comes to doing a neat job and the one thing I struggle with is bringing cables to window and doors neatly. Any advice or tips from the experts? Thanks guys.

    The neatest is chased out and filled over.
    Mini trunken can also be used to good effect once filled on both sides. Can be painted over to which helps.

    www.altor.ie



  • #240
    kevh1987
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭kevh1987


    Thanks for the responses guys, went with the mini trunking, which I normally do. wish they did right angle bends for mini trunking, would be a very neat job then. One last question, can you wire two door contacts in parallel or must they be in series, they were wired using 4 core cable


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  • #241
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    kevh1987 wrote: »
    Thanks for the responses guys, went with the mini trunking, which I normally do. wish they did right angle bends for mini trunking, would be a very neat job then. One last question, can you wire two door contacts in parallel or must they be in series, they were wired using 4 core cable
    They must be in series. If they were in parallel both would need to be open before the zone would show open.


  • #242
    kevh1987
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭kevh1987


    I see, that makes sense, thanks for the help


  • #243
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    No bother, your welcome.


  • #244
    altor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭altor


    kevh1987 wrote: »
    Thanks for the responses guys, went with the mini trunking, which I normally do. wish they did right angle bends for mini trunking, would be a very neat job then. One last question, can you wire two door contacts in parallel or must they be in series, they were wired using 4 core cable

    They are wired in series.

    A bit of filler on the joints does just as good a job as the angle bends ;)

    www.altor.ie



  • #245
    kevh1987
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭kevh1987


    Help needed again guys, have wired two zones as per yer diagrames, zone 1 has two door contacts in series and set too duel end of line 4k7 and zone 2 has two shock sensors and a window contact in series set too duel end if line. Both showing open zones.


  • #246
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Is it showing zone open or tamper open or both?
    Where are the EOL resistors placed?


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  • #247
    Light Buzzyear
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Light Buzzyear


    Hi guys,

    I’m hoping you might be able to help me out on a minor nuisance encountered on a SW812 installation.

    When the front (main) entry exit door is left open for a number of minutes, while the alarm is unset, the keypad starts beeping with a zone specific tamper fault, which then triggers the GSM texter. No fault registers when the door is initially opened, or during normal exit setting or entry unsetting. The user code clears the tamper fault and beeping.

    The door has its own zone (#1). There is one HKC inertia / contact combo sensor, wired with dual EOL 4k7 resistors, and the zone type is set as EOL.

    Zone options are as follows: Inhibit – Yes, Excl from PG A – No, Excl from PG B – No, Soak – No, Chime – No (This was originally set to Yes, then adjusted to No to check if this was the cause, but it still occurred).

    Work to EN50131 - Yes

    Timer options are as follows: Entry Time - 30, Exit Time – 30, Split Entry Time - 30.

    Any pointers or suggestions for things to try would be welcome. If there are any other settings you need me to post, just let me know.

    Thanks guys.


  • #248
    altor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Light Buzzyear wrote: »
    Hi guys,

    I’m hoping you might be able to help me out on a minor nuisance encountered on a SW812 installation.

    When the front (main) entry exit door is left open for a number of minutes, while the alarm is unset, the keypad starts beeping with a zone specific tamper fault, which then triggers the GSM texter. No fault registers when the door is initially opened, or during normal exit setting or entry unsetting. The user code clears the tamper fault and beeping.

    The door has its own zone (#1). There is one HKC inertia / contact combo sensor, wired with dual EOL 4k7 resistors, and the zone type is set as EOL.

    Zone options are as follows: Inhibit – Yes, Excl from PG A – No, Excl from PG B – No, Soak – No, Chime – No (This was originally set to Yes, then adjusted to No to check if this was the cause, but it still occurred).

    Timer options are as follows: Entry Time - 30, Exit Time – 30, Split Entry Time - 30.

    Any pointers or suggestions for things to try would be welcome. If there are any other settings you need me to post, just let me know.

    Thanks guys.

    Sounds like an issue with the tamper on the device itself. Can you close off the tamper in this device and see if you still have the same issue.
    Take a picture first as then you will know how you have it wired if replacing the unit.

    www.altor.ie



  • #249
    Thunderbird2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Thunderbird2


    When you say "zone specific tamper fault " is it saying that its the front door or another zone ?
    Check and make sure that the tamper spring is nice and tight .


  • #250
    Light Buzzyear
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Light Buzzyear


    Altor / Thunderbird2 - Cheers, will take a closer look at the tamper wiring and spring on-site tomorrow. All looked Ok on initial inspection, but I'll do a more thorough re-installation of the sensor. It's just bugging me as to why the tamper fault is only showing up with the door open for an extended period. I'll let you know the outcome.

    Thunderbird2 - yes front door, zone 1 tamper fault.


  • #251
    altor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Light Buzzyear wrote: »
    Altor / Thunderbird2 - Cheers, will take a closer look at the tamper wiring and spring on-site tomorrow. All looked Ok on initial inspection, but I'll do a more thorough re-installation of the sensor. It's just bugging me as to why the tamper fault is only showing up with the door open for an extended period. I'll let you know the outcome.

    Thunderbird2 - yes front door, zone 1 tamper fault.

    Could be a loose connection or the devices tamper is faulty.

    www.altor.ie



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