HKC ALARM Installation

Officer Goodbody · 26-10-2010 12:32pm #1

Hi All,

How do you wire in shock sensors in series and bak to the board. I have 5 shock senors for upstairs with the last widow with a dual sensor (Shock and contact). Also how to you complete the end of line. Are resistors reguired. A simple schematic would be really helpfull.

Thanking you in advance.

altor · 26-10-2010 6:18pm

Here is a drawing that might help you out.

Officer Goodbody · 27-10-2010 3:16pm

Thanks for that Altor,

Im thinking of using ID shock sensors (5 in series). Can you advice on how the first four are wired and then how the end of line is completed. Also can the end of line resistors be installed in the control panel.

Regards

Officer Goodbody · 27-10-2010 3:19pm

Also can you advice on which alarm brand and model is good to use for a hard wired system? I was thinking of HKC but I'm getting different views on them.

KoolKid · 27-10-2010 3:57pm

What core cable is feeding those 5 sensors?
I would personally would recommend seperate zones over ID sensor.
What HKC panel do you have?
Theye are more touble than they are worth IMO.

altor · 27-10-2010 4:39pm

Officer Goodbody wrote: »

Thanks for that Altor,

Im thinking of using ID shock sensors (5 in series). Can you advice on how the first four are wired and then how the end of line is completed. Also can the end of line resistors be installed in the control panel.

Regards

I use them a lot with no issues, they are very good to use in my opinion. Very good for indicating what windows are what. E.G. the 4 windows on your loop can each be given a name plus can be set up differently as they all have there own types plus options. They are easy to set up and wire also. Very good if you have a text dialer install as you will know what window has activated the alarm.

You have RED/BLACK for power BLUE for data. The window with the two cables are set up by doubling up the cables. Two RED, two BLACK, two BLUE into the sensor. The last sensor will just have one RED, BLACK and BLUE cable going into it. Back at the panel you connect the RED/BLACK into power, and connect the BLUE into the right hand side of the zone leaving the link in place.

If you decided to install a Pir on the landing you could also come off the windows cable in the attic and install a point ID motion. It is wired in the same. The max is 10 per zone, zones 5,6,7 and 8 are used for these.

altor · 27-10-2010 4:42pm

Officer Goodbody wrote: »

Also can you advice on which alarm brand and model is good to use for a hard wired system? I was thinking of HKC but I'm getting different views on them.

Their new panel is a great panel. I use it a lot and never have any issues with it.

Cadzer · 27-10-2010 4:43pm

Officer Goodbody wrote: »

Thanks for that Altor,

Im thinking of using ID shock sensors (5 in series). Can you advice on how the first four are wired and then how the end of line is completed. Also can the end of line resistors be installed in the control panel.

Regards

The End of Line Resistor is put on the last device on the alarm loop. The resistor value changes with the different manufacturer panel type. The HKC Panel use a 4K7 resistor.

If you are going to use Point ID Sensors the wiring is much simpler. You only require 3 wires. 12V+ , 0V and a Data wire.

Point ID gives the users a lot more information when an activation occurs. If you have a zone with 5 sensors you cant tell which sensor activated the alarm. When you have 5 Point ID you can find out which of the 5 sensors went off.

I have used Point ID on houses and have never had a problem. Some people love them some people do not. The sensors are more expensive but i find them handy to install.

KoolKid · 27-10-2010 4:44pm

All of the features mentioned could also be accessible by using individual zones. If your using Securewave there is plenty of capacity to add zones. With panels geeting bigger capacity I think point ID has had it day. Just my opinion from many bad experiences.

Cadzer · 27-10-2010 4:49pm

koolkid wrote: »

All of the features mentioned could also be accessible by using individual zones. If your using Securewave there is plenty of capacity to add zones. With panels geeting bigger capacity I think point ID has had it day. Just my opinion from many bad experiences.

Agreed that the pane can expand its zones up but i find 10 hard wired zones would normally do most domestic house.Point ID is very useful for retro fitting existing alarms and breaking up large number of senors on one zone.

altor · 27-10-2010 4:56pm

koolkid wrote: »

All of the features mentioned could also be accessible by using individual zones. If your using Securewave there is plenty of capacity to add zones. With panels geeting bigger capacity I think point ID has had it day. Just my opinion from many bad experiences.

Yes all panels can add extra zone expanders but thats adding a lot more expense to the customer plus if some houses have the whole upstairs looped together that makes it more difficult to give them all there own zone plus add other devices to the loop. I myself use them a lot with no issues.

KoolKid · 27-10-2010 4:57pm

Thats why I asked what cable is feeding those windows.
If its 6 core or more your could still wire all 5 on individual zones.
More reliable IMO, and there would not be much extra in the cost.

Officer Goodbody · 28-10-2010 9:18am

Thanks Guys for all your help,

Im using a 6 core cable and have one cable upstairs for the windows, one for a PIR and one for an internal sounder.

The panel Im thinking about is the HKC 1070, I have had some good feedback on this panel as in accommadates both wireless and hard wired accessories.

If I decided not to go with ID sensors how would i wire in just 5 normal shock sensors in series and also how would I finish the EOL.

Regards

KoolKid · 28-10-2010 9:36am

Using a 6 core cable you can wire 5 sensors individually on separate zones.
I am on mobile at the moment.I can put up a diagram later if you want it.
If you are going with ID sensors you parallel + - and data.
If you decide against ID I would recommend looking at the SigNET . Also has wireless , but has more features over HKC IMO.

altor · 28-10-2010 7:27pm

Officer Goodbody wrote: »

Thanks Guys for all your help,

Im using a 6 core cable and have one cable upstairs for the windows, one for a PIR and one for an internal sounder.

The panel Im thinking about is the HKC 1070, I have had some good feedback on this panel as in accommadates both wireless and hard wired accessories.

If I decided not to go with ID sensors how would i wire in just 5 normal shock sensors in series and also how would I finish the EOL.

Regards

Your welcome,

Great choice of panel. If you decide against using the ID sensors use the drawing I gave you in my first post. This is set up for dual end of line in the panel. You can also have secure keyfobs with this system, meaning you will need to enter your code to disarm the alarm on the fob, much more secure than traditional keyfobs.

KoolKid · 28-10-2010 10:00pm

Officer Goodbody wrote: »

If I decided not to go with ID sensors how would i wire in just 5 normal shock sensors in series and also how would I finish the EOL.

Regards

If you want the sensors on seperate zones wire as follows:
(Excuse my photoshop skills:))

AA is alarm terminals
TT is tamer terminals
Yellow loops are resistors,
Loop the black cable to all devices & to the negetive side of each zone in the panel. (you only need to do this if its HKC, other panels have common negetives.)
Wire each other single strand
Red
Blue
Yellow
Green
White
To the alarm side with the singlw eg of the resistor.
At the panel these connect to the return side of each of the zone inputs.

Officer Goodbody · 16-11-2010 10:14pm

Cool Thanks,

Some more questions:

I bought the 1070 panel in the end. The panel has only one 12v aux terminals. Do I connect alll aux devices such as PIR's to the same 12v terminal via a terminal strip?

How should I connect PIR's to the board:
1) Do I connect the PIR to one of the available free zones.
2) Are resistors required and if so where and how many.
3) My PIR has 6 terminals +,-,C, NC, T,T. What wires connect into each terminal.

Thanks in advance.

altor · 16-11-2010 10:23pm

Good choice of panel, with this panel you will have 10 wired zones plus the ability to add wire free devices.

The 12v is used to connect any wired device that needs power. If you feel you have too many for the terminals you can just run one cable from the 12v on the board and connect all the powered devices to the cable in a connector block.

Thats correct with regard the pir, you can connect two for the 12v two for alarm (c/nc) and two for tamper.

Officer Goodbody · 16-11-2010 10:39pm

Thanks Altor,

So just to clarify

+ and - (Black and Red) goes back to the 12v aux supply
T and T (Yellow and blue) goes back to the TT terminals at the free zone on the panel
c and NC (White and green) goes back to the A A terminals at the free zone

No resistors required.

altor · 16-11-2010 10:47pm

Officer Goodbody wrote: »

Thanks Altor,

So just to clarify

+ and - (Black and Red) goes back to the 12v aux supply
T and T (Yellow and blue) goes back to the TT terminals at the free zone on the panel
c and NC (White and green) goes back to the A A terminals at the free zone

No resistors required.

Thats correct Officer Goodbody, in the same zone A/A T/T.

If you did want to fit the resistors you would use red + black - power, single leg of resistor in with green cable in C, double legs of resistor in NC, other single leg in T, white cable in T. Back at panel put into alarm side of the zone, plus change zone hardware to dual end of line.

Officer Goodbody · 16-11-2010 11:16pm

What are the advantages of using resistors?

altor · 16-11-2010 11:22pm

Less cabling, more devices on a cable plus harder to tamper with the devices cable once installed.

Officer Goodbody · 17-11-2010 11:04am

Thanks Altor,

Can you have a look at the attached sketch I have drawn taking into account what you said in your previous post and let me know if the sketches are correct.

Also should I install a link between the two tamper terminals of the zone back at the board, shown on the sketch.
Should the white cable in the PIR be in with the single end of the resistor rather than in the free tamper terminal as I have shown.:D

altor · 17-11-2010 8:13pm

Your welcome,

The first sketch is spot on Officer Goodbody, cabling plus resistors. Yes, leave the link in the tamper side of the zone in the panel. You will need to change the zone hardware for that zone to dual end of line. You can wire it in as sketch 2 also, just dont change the zone hardware.

Officer Goodbody · 17-11-2010 9:45pm

When you say I need to change the hardware do you mean the software settings:)

altor · 17-11-2010 10:34pm

To change the settings you need to go into engineering, zone menu then zone hardware. In here you can change to Non end of line, Single end of line or Dual end of line of line depending on how you want the zone hardware set up. If you have any problems let us know.

Officer Goodbody · 19-11-2010 11:04am

Thanks Altor, thats what I thought.

My internal bell has four terminals, +, -, T, T but the panel only has + and - terminals. Where should I terminate the T, T wires from the internal bell on the panel? Should you install resistors in the internal bell?

altor · 19-11-2010 3:38pm

Officer Goodbody wrote: »

Thanks Altor, thats what I thought.

My internal bell has four terminals, +, -, T, T but the panel only has + and - terminals. Where should I terminate the T, T wires from the internal bell on the panel? Should you install resistors in the internal bell?

No you dont need a resistor in the internal bell. You have two choices here, you can either connect it into a spare zone on the tamper side or else put it in series with the external bell tamper. The zone would be the easier option.

Officer Goodbody · 20-11-2010 3:08pm

Thanks Altor,

I just terminated the tapmer wires into a spare zone.

I changed the setup hardware to Dual EOL and and my PIR's function correctly until I go to full set the alarm and leave. My PIR in zone 2 (Hallway) detects me and sets the alarm off even before the exit time has cleared the 30secs. Have I missed a setting somewhere?

KoolKid · 20-11-2010 3:29pm

You need to set the zone options on the PiR to Access.

Officer Goodbody · 20-11-2010 4:34pm

Thanks coolkid that did the job.

I have been given different views on the best way to wire in a front door exit. I am using a honeywell contactor which shows i should use just one resistor and a jumper lead, anyone got any comments?

altor · 20-11-2010 11:23pm

Can you post a picture of the contact, Honeywell have a lot of different types.

Officer Goodbody · 22-11-2010 3:08pm

Yea Sure,

Its a EMPS 85 reed contact. Sorry the picture attached is a little small had to download it form the internet, dont have my camera with me today.

Contact has 5 terminal and is a normally closed contact.

altor · 22-11-2010 3:24pm

There is no tamper switch on this contact so just wire dual end of line and set the hardware to same.

Officer Goodbody · 22-11-2010 4:04pm

Thanks Altor.

I wired it as you have shown originally and the panel just keeps saying tamper fault and zone fault. The hardware has been changed to dual end of line.

To try and clear the fault I moved the resistors to the next terminal in the block and it seem to work, as per sketch 2. The problem here is I'm not sure what I did was correct.

Also sketch 1 is a copy of the sketch that came with the contact.

Whats the difference between single end of line and dual end of line?

cheers

altor · 22-11-2010 4:19pm

Yes, thats correct, I just used an old contact I had as a drawing, the lay out of the contact was different in the Honeywell contact.

The panel picks it up as follows :
Dual covers alarm and tamper, single would only cover alarm or tamper, all depends on how the installer installs it. Dual is always the best way to have it done.

ALL CLOSED 4K7
OPEN 9K4
TAMPER 000000

Officer Goodbody · 22-11-2010 4:55pm

Thanks Altor,

So the sketch2 that I attached is correct and this is a dual end of line installation.

What did you mean by the following.

ALL CLOSED 4K7
OPEN 9K4
TAMPER 000000

altor · 22-11-2010 5:00pm

Yes thats is correct.

If you put a meter across the cable in the panel you will get the following :

ALL CLOSED 4K7 Device closed
OPEN 9K4 Device open
TAMPER 000000 Device tamper open

Officer Goodbody · 23-11-2010 4:39pm

Thanks Altor,

I want to put shock sensors only on the windows upstairs even though they all have openings. I personally dont think anyone would be able to access via an upstairs window without the aid of a ladder or creating a vibration.

There seems to be lots of types and manufactures of shock sensors on the market. Can you advise on a particular shock sensor you would recommend.

Thanks

altor · 23-11-2010 9:38pm

I would use the HKC shock sensors. If you need something slimmer I would use the ASTEC slim sensors, both are very good and reliable to use. I agree, shock sensors will pick up on a would be intruder trying to force open the window or trying to take out the glass. If there is no access to the windows it is unlikely someone is going to try get in them, a few places I have being to lately have had the sliding door glass removed. They only had a contact installed on it. If you have one in your house make sure you install a shock sensor plus a contact to cover it properly.

Officer Goodbody · 25-11-2010 11:50am

Thanks Altor,

Altor I have three windows I want to put a shock senor and seperate contact on in series with four other windows that will just have a shock sensor on. The reason I want to use the sepearte contact is because the shock sensor will be positioned half way down on the window frame and the window opens from the bottom. I have attached a sketch showing a wiring layout for this arrangement using dual end of line. If you have time can you please have a look at it and let me know if I have the wiring correct.

Thanking you in Advance

altor · 25-11-2010 4:54pm

I have attached a few drawings that should help you out

If you need any more help let me know..

Officer Goodbody · 25-11-2010 5:03pm

Hi Altor,

Thanks for the attached drawings and they diffential do help however the arrangement that I drew in my previous post is different to all the attached drawings.

The wiring arrangement that I have is as follows:
Window 1: Seperate shock sensor and seperate contact,
Window 2: Seperate shock sensor only
Window 3 Seperate shock sensor
Window 4 : Seperate Shock sensor
Window 5: Seperate shock sensor and seperate windoe contact.

The reason I'm using a seperate window contact rather than a dual sensor is because the window opens from the bottom and the shock sensor is mid window.

Thanks

Officer Goodbody · 25-11-2010 5:05pm

Sorry spelling error, diffential should be definitely

altor · 25-11-2010 5:13pm

If they are on a loop it wont make any difference as there is only alarm and tamper on them. The resistors will be going in the last device.

Officer Goodbody · 25-11-2010 5:21pm

Thanks Altor,

I drew up the attached sketch just to make sure I had the terminals correct for each device in series. Am I right in saying that you just wire in the contact as another device in series and not as a spur from the shock sensor.

Thanks for your help to this point.

altor · 25-11-2010 5:30pm

The tamper is correct but the alarm is wrong. I will make you up a drawing later that will sort it for you.

altor · 25-11-2010 8:46pm

In the shock, join the two blacks together in a connector block.

Officer Goodbody · 25-11-2010 9:34pm

Altor,

Dont really understand your last post.

Did you mean I should wire the black wire as you have shown on my sketch and disregard totally the black wire I had shown.

"In the shock, join the two blacks together in a connector block" Do you mean I should terminate the two black wires in the same termination on the shock sensor or a new connector block:)

altor · 25-11-2010 9:41pm

Correct, just follow the black line I entered. When you come to the shock sensor the black cable need to be joined together in a connector block as you dont have a free terminal on the shock sensor to join them in.

All this is doing is continuing the black cable from the first sensor to the resistor.

I hope you can follow it

Officer Goodbody · 25-11-2010 9:46pm

Okay Thanks,

Is that the same for the blue wire?

HKC ALARM Installation

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