General gaming discussion

YoshiReturns · 06-04-2021 11:39am

Similar problem not from gaming but computer work. Could no longer grasp anything without pain from my left hand. Some online physio and basic weight exercises and I'm fine now.

Still get see slight pains but that's my body saying take a break or more exercise ...

pixelburp · 06-04-2021 11:47am

Yeah. Pains in your hand/wrist from using digital devices? Get it checked out. Don't "yeah yeah, maybe". Go ring your nearest physio, they're still open during Lockdown and taking bookings. A good one will be able to look at the hands and figure out the best course of action - though excess gaming probably means "don't game for a while / so much" being the obvious cure. Watch some TV, listen to podcasts... just give the wrists a break.

No idea what age we're talking about here but if not properly addressed it'll kill you later on. Uh, not literally of course :pac:

Gamer Bhoy 89 · 06-04-2021 11:50am

gimli2112 wrote: »

I hate games that tell you how long you've played them. COD, The Division and god almighty Destiny. I look at the hours spent and think I'm wasting my life.

I've never understood this mindset. If you're enjoying yourself in the moment, why does it matter how long you've played? Having a lot of hours in a game should never be a cause to feel regret unless you've never been into gaming in the first place.

I've never looked back at my younger years and thought "wow I spent way too much time doing this instead of doing that".

If you're enjoying yourself, then that's time well spent man. You could do far worse. The only time it should feel like you've wasted time is if it has had a negative impact on important aspects of your life outside of it - things you need (sustainable income, a roof over your head, food, family, health etc.), otherwise, if you're enjoying your time gaming, then own it.

YoshiReturns · 06-04-2021 12:20pm

The games I really enjoy and get more out of than I put into them are worth it. Like any great movie, book, music, concert, piece of art, ... BOTW and RDR2 really worked for me. I put in a lot of time and never felt like I wasting my time. But these are few and far between. The 3D Mario's like Galaxy, Odyssey and 3D World are just pure joy. Again, totally worth it.

When stuff feels like a slog I just quit it. But I try to give the game a chance first.

Gamer Bhoy 89 · 06-04-2021 12:33pm

YoshiReturns wrote: »

The games I really enjoy and get more out of than I put into them are worth it. Like any great movie, book, music, concert, piece of art, ... BOTW and RDR2 really worked for me. I put in a lot of time and never felt like I wasting my time. But these are few and far between. The 3D Mario's like Galaxy, Odyssey and 3D World are just pure joy. Again, totally worth it.

When stuff feels like a slog I just quit it. But I try to give the game a chance first.

I have the worst attention span in the world. After beating a long AAA game I'll jump in and out of random ones I already own, or I'll buy some that are dirt cheap and play them for half an hour before jumping to something else. It's the worst habit I have when it comes to gaming. I was playing the hell out of LEGO Star Wars (shut up, it's nice and easy :pac: lol) the other day - I've only two episodes left to beat, and for some reason I just stopped and played Wreckfest on the PS4. I haven't went back to it since yesterday morning.

I also have a habit of doing exactly what I'm doing right now - getting distracted by the computer. I have hundreds of games at my disposal and I think that's my problem.

People go by that meme of "I've nothing to play" accompanied by a photo of a stack of games, or a screenshot of the 800+ games on a Steam account.

It's not that I've nothing to play, it's that I don't know WHAT to play. It's a genuine 1st world problem.

Retr0gamer · 06-04-2021 12:38pm

I'm always 'I don't have time to put into a classic and highly regarded RPG. I'll play a quick simple game/multiplayer game'.

Puts 60+ hours into simple/multiplayer game.

The Raging Bile Duct · 06-04-2021 12:47pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm always 'I don't have time to put into a classic and highly regarded RPG. I'll play a quick simple game/multiplayer game'.

Puts 60+ hours into simple/multiplayer game.

My daughter started playing Persona 5 and for the 3 hours she played she said she played about 10-15 minutes of actual gameplay. That's the sort of thing that puts me right off. At least when I get stuck into a couple of hours of the Division 2, I'm not going to be facing into a rake of cut scenes and end up not playing any of the game. It's quite bizarre going into a safe house and there's guys there and they're level one thousand, two hundred and something. That's getting into 'you need a new hobby' territory for me.

SomeSayKos · 06-04-2021 12:53pm

Got Disco Elysium at the weekend and boy oh boy oh boy do I love it!

Retr0gamer · 06-04-2021 1:09pm

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

My daughter started playing Persona 5 and for the 3 hours she played she said she played about 10-15 minutes of actual gameplay. That's the sort of thing that puts me right off. At least when I get stuck into a couple of hours of the Division 2, I'm not going to be facing into a rake of cut scenes and end up not playing any of the game. It's quite bizarre going into a safe house and there's guys there and they're level one thousand, two hundred and something. That's getting into 'you need a new hobby' territory for me.

Persona 5 is a pretty extreme example of this but I totally get this as well. When I want to have a quick game of something or start something new I know a modern game is going to be at least 3 hours of cutscenes and tutorials before I can start to enjoy the game. I usually end up playing a retro game instead. Title screen, press start, straight into the game and with a gameplay loop that teaches you the game as you play.

Modern games really have terrible issues with handholding and the pacing at the start of games as publishers are afraid to lose people due to gameplay frustrations.

The Raging Bile Duct · 06-04-2021 1:15pm

Enter the Gungeon is a game I never would have bothered with if I hadn't picked up as part of the raft of free games Sony are currently giving away but it scratches that itch. Load it up and straight into the action. It's great fun.

Markitron · 06-04-2021 1:20pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Modern games really have terrible issues with handholding and the pacing at the start of games as publishers are afraid to lose people due to gameplay frustrations.

I think this has been getting a little bit better over the last few years, around 2009-2012 it got really bad.

Vicxas · 06-04-2021 1:46pm

Loving Soulstorm at the minute. So good to have an Odd world game out again

one armed dwarf · 06-04-2021 2:05pm

Games are not as handholdey as they were in the 360/PS3 gen. Also if you want a game that won't hold your hand then check out Pathologic 2

Markitron · 06-04-2021 2:08pm

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Games are not as handholdey as they were in the 360/PS3 gen. Also if you want a game that won't hold your hand then check out Pathologic 2

I blame Call of Duty. I like those games for what they are, but Modern Warfare brought a LOT of people to FPS's that otherwise wouldn't have played them. Since they are action movies they basically played themselves, then every publisher assumed that is what people wanted.

Filthy casuals ruining everything for the rest of us.

J. Marston · 06-04-2021 2:08pm

Seeing the amount of time I sank into Overwatch is the reason I gave it up.

Retr0gamer · 06-04-2021 3:02pm

Markitron wrote: »

I blame Call of Duty. I like those games for what they are, but Modern Warfare brought a LOT of people to FPS's that otherwise wouldn't have played them. Since they are action movies they basically played themselves, then every publisher assumed that is what people wanted.

Filthy casuals ruining everything for the rest of us.

I think this started with Halo, but I can't blame Halo.

It's opening stage was praised at the time as being a great example of a tutorial. It thought you how to play the game in quite a natural manner. Of particular note was the test they give you to look up at down at the start, a very subtle way to figure out if you are an inverter or non-inverter.

I think a lot of developers misinterpreted this as people are morons and don't know how to play games so need everything, even looking around explained to them.

And you can't blame CoD either, CoD4 has a fantastic tutorial and the series usually hits the ground running pretty quickly.

Markitron · 06-04-2021 3:13pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I think this started with Halo, but I can't blame Halo.

It's opening stage was praised at the time as being a great example of a tutorial. It thought you how to play the game in quite a natural manner. Of particular note was the test they give you to look up at down at the start, a very subtle way to figure out if you are an inverter or non-inverter.

I think a lot of developers misinterpreted this as people are morons and don't know how to play games so need everything, even looking around explained to them.

And you can't blame CoD either, CoD4 has a fantastic tutorial and the series usually hits the ground running pretty quickly.

I suppose I'm not so much referring to the tutorials specifically, rather how a game holds your hand throughout the entire runtime. I remember playing one CoD game, not sure which, and it asks you to press a couple of buttons to launch a jet. Turns out if you don't do it, the game just does it for you. That was about halfway thru it as well. CoD 4 is an excellent game but it was responsible for some horrible trends in the industry, some of which persist to this day.

johnny_ultimate · 06-04-2021 3:13pm

I still consider RDR2 as a low-point for endless tutorials and hand-holding. The game's context-specific controls meant you were getting pop-ups well into the second half of the game. It made some setpiece missions - the hot air balloon is the one I always remember - feel like tutorial missions for mechanics that were never revisited. It doesn't help that Rockstar haven't really evolved their approach to tutorials - little text boxes with an accompanying ping - since the PS2 era.

Markitron · 06-04-2021 3:17pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I still consider RDR2 as a low-point for endless tutorials and hand-holding. The game's context-specific controls meant you were getting pop-ups well into the second half of the game. It made some setpiece missions - the hot air balloon is the one I always remember - feel like tutorial missions for mechanics that were never revisited. It doesn't help that Rockstar haven't really evolved their approach to tutorials - little text boxes with an accompanying ping - since the PS2 era.

They haven't improved this aspect of their design in 20 years, it just reeks of arrogance to me.

pixelburp · 06-04-2021 3:19pm

Markitron wrote: »

They haven't improved this aspect of their design in 20 years, it just reeks of arrogance to me.

I suppose, from their perspective; why would they? They're possibly one of the few dev houses whose financial and critical success is the most blinding to any kind of self-reflection or improvement.

Markitron · 06-04-2021 3:24pm

pixelburp wrote: »

I suppose, from their perspective; why would they?

Exactly my point, they are arrogant. I liked RDR2 but it made it clear to me that, just like Bethesda before them, they have been left behind by a genre where they used to be on the the cutting edge.

Again I suppose this doesn't matter as GTA 6 will sell 50m copies anyway.

AlmightyCushion · 06-04-2021 3:26pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I think this started with Halo, but I can't blame Halo.

It's opening stage was praised at the time as being a great example of a tutorial. It thought you how to play the game in quite a natural manner. Of particular note was the test they give you to look up at down at the start, a very subtle way to figure out if you are an inverter or non-inverter.

I think a lot of developers misinterpreted this as people are morons and don't know how to play games so need everything, even looking around explained to them.

And you can't blame CoD either, CoD4 has a fantastic tutorial and the series usually hits the ground running pretty quickly.

I think you are being a bit generous to Halo there. In the test it gets you to try normal, then the test guy pipes up with how he noticed a calibration error and it switches to inverted and you have to do the same test again but with inverted. Then it gives you the option to switch back and tells you you can switch back at any time in the settings menu or something like that. This is all after the test guy asks you to look around as well.

There is no need for all that. It's a waste of time at the start of the game when you just want to get into it. There shouldn't have been a test at all, just something telling you you can change to inverted in the settings menu.

It does the same with the shield test. Walk over to a station, wait for your shield to charge. Then something happens to bring your shields to 0. Then wait for the shields to charge up again. No need for it at all. You don't need a tutorial like this to tell you you have a shield that recharges.

Of course all this includes waiting for the testing guy to slowly walk to the different areas he has you go to. The whole thing takes a couple of minutes when you just want to start shooting people in the face.

Retr0gamer · 06-04-2021 3:56pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I think you are being a bit generous to Halo there. In the test it gets you to try normal, then the test guy pipes up with how he noticed a calibration error and it switches to inverted and you have to do the same test again but with inverted. Then it gives you the option to switch back and tells you you can switch back at any time in the settings menu or something like that. This is all after the test guy asks you to look around as well.

There is no need for all that. It's a waste of time at the start of the game when you just want to get into it. There shouldn't have been a test at all, just something telling you you can change to inverted in the settings menu.

It does the same with the shield test. Walk over to a station, wait for your shield to charge. Then something happens to bring your shields to 0. Then wait for the shields to charge up again. No need for it at all. You don't need a tutorial like this to tell you you have a shield that recharges.

Of course all this includes waiting for the testing guy to slowly walk to the different areas he has you go to. The whole thing takes a couple of minutes when you just want to start shooting people in the face.

It's mercifully brief compared to being bukkaked by awful lore dumps and tutorials that modern games like to do.

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

This discussion reminds me of this video:

This is true and I'd never recommend a 3D game to someone new off the bat but developers also don't need to treat us all like idiots and force people that can play games through it.

If nintendo can teach people how to play games organically (and I know Nintendo have been pretty bad with this as well) there's surely a better way than modern tutorials and the insane amounts of cutscenes setting up story.

Breath of the Wilds little micro hub was pretty genius. A little sandbox you can play within before he stabilisers are taken off.

CastorTroy · 06-04-2021 5:19pm

A good example of a tutorial is Portal 2. "Say Apple".

With reference to that video, I remember getting a PS2 second hand and playing GTA Vice City. tried a side mission involving an ambulance and was prompted to push L3. Like the wife in the video, I didn't know what that was as I didn't realise you could click the stick so quit the mission. Was only a while later when I was playing something else that I realised the stick clicked by accident.

wotzgoingon · 06-04-2021 6:00pm

I remember years ago playing GTA San Andreas on the original Xbox and the mission where you had the low rider car where it bounces and you have to press button and thumbstick combinations. I found that mission pretty difficult at the time as I didn't know which button was A or X or Y but got through it. Played it again a year or so ago and it was piss easy as I know the button lay out off by heart for years.

Potential-Monke · 06-04-2021 7:46pm

J Mysterio wrote: »

60+ hours a week?!?!? Jesus H Christ, that is mental.

TitianGerm wrote: »

Jesus that's 8.5 hours a day of gaming. I assume 8 hours of work so that doesn't leave you much time for anything else after sleep.

I work nights on a 6 week rota basis. So as a result, I live nights. 4pm-9am are my waking hours. Due to certain life choices (don't get a mortgage!) I'm living at home the last 5 years, which is beneficial for both me and the parents. I don't have and have no intention of having kids, and I'm a single pringle for quite a few years now, but happily so. I tried the "normal" life, didn't like it, so now I literally live to do what I like doing, playing games and watching anime/tv/movies.

So yeah, any night I'm not working, I'm playing games or watching something. Pandemic is a plus for me in some regards, as I no longer have to make excuses to not go somewhere.

TitianGerm · 06-04-2021 7:54pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I work nights on a 6 week rota basis. So as a result, I live nights. 4pm-9am are my waking hours. Due to certain life choices (don't get a mortgage!) I'm living at home the last 5 years, which is beneficial for both me and the parents. I don't have and have no intention of having kids, and I'm a single pringle for quite a few years now, but happily so. I tried the "normal" life, didn't like it, so now I literally live to do what I like doing, playing games and watching anime/tv/movies.

So yeah, any night I'm not working, I'm playing games or watching something. Pandemic is a plus for me in some regards, as I no longer have to make excuses to not go somewhere.

As long as you're taking time to cook/eat properly and get some exercise and fresh air in you'll be grand. Just don't shut yourself away long-term though as it can take a toll on your mental health.

Potential-Monke · 06-04-2021 9:23pm

TitianGerm wrote: »

As long as you're taking time to cook/eat properly and get some exercise and fresh air in you'll be grand. Just don't shut yourself away long-term though as it can take a toll on your mental health.

That's the advice I do get. But I have a couple of extra features to help me:

1: I'm ginger, the sun is my enemy and I produce my own Vitamin D, so all good on the sunshine front.
2: I'm far better mentally now than when I was trying to keep up with the Joneses
3: I am surprisingly not putting on weight, but I also hate cardio so I've resistance bands on the way to do some weight related training, which I actually don't mind

All good though, and while it's the complete opposite of what people would consider a "normal" life, it suits me far, far better than trying to be a social butterfly and do "normal" things.

Not telling anyone that this is the way to live either, each to their own, but don't be afraid to go against the grain, especially if it genuinely is better for you. Not having kids is the biggest one, I can see how much "free" time I have in comparison, and it helps solidify my thought that kids are just not for me! My biggest problem is filling in the gaps of nothing to do, which is why I game so much.

wotzgoingon · 06-04-2021 9:28pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

and I produce my own Vitamin D

I agree with what you say but what the hell is that about?

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