General gaming discussion

Retr0gamer

I wouldn't be holding up Obra Dinn as an example to cover the broad spectrum of indie videogames. I think it's one of the best games of all time but it's also not for everyone. The beauty of indie games is that there's something there for everyone. They aren't all 'wanky arthouse games', there's quite a lot of simple games that just take simple mechanics and do as much with them as they can.

pixelburp wrote: »

The simple generalisation is that Indie games are more likely to be built by small teams, sometimes just single individuals like Stardew Valley; so if they tend to get more critical leeway, it's likely just down to the fact they don't have the resources or time to polish off every rough edge. They get the benefit of the doubt by dint of the environment they came from. Slamming an indie game for not being perfect, having a tough difficulty curve or whatever, feels unfair. It's similar enough to those "euro jank" games that occupy the low-mid tier of the industry.

Honestly think a lot of indie games are far better polished than triple A games. They're mostly free from release day constraint, and while no game is truly finished you'll find a lot more indie games feel like finished products than triple A games.

I really do feel as JU said that it's triple A games getting away with murder with hype carrying games like Fallout 4, TLOU2 and RDR2 to critical darling status when these games have glaring flaws.

Penn

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I'd disagree there. The abstracted nature of the art design works so Pope can carefully control and artfully obscure some of the identifying details and add to the mystery. In many ways it limits the amount of information being given to the player, so key details stand out more. A more realistic style would not only be massively labour intensive, but it would be a completely different game.

Also, beyond function... it looks bloody fantastic

I definitely don't think it needed to look realistic, just even some forms of colour or something wouldn't have hurt (but I do contend that I didn't advance far enough in the game to know what issues that might cause in terms of gameplay). The artstyle just ended up annoying me as I progressed. Though to be honest the main thing that made me stop playing was

the initial reveal the ship was attacked by a giant sea monster. I think if it was more focused on the personal stories of the crew etc I'd have been more likely to stay interested, whereas I felt if it's just going to throw giant sea monsters into the mix (and I saw other types of beasts/monsters named in the list of reasons for who might have killed someone), well then anything could have happened to any of them. For some reason that just put me off trying to figure things out.

SomeSayKos

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Personally, though, I often see AAA games getting away with murder. That the likes of The Last of Us 2 or Cyberpunk reviewed overwhelmingly positively for me indicates they can get away with a lot more than indie games can.

I don't know, i think it swings both ways in a lot of cases. The review scores for The Outer Wilds were so good that I was shocked when I downloaded it and realised it had some of the worst controls i've experienced in a game since the PS2 era :pac:

Markitron

SomeSayKos wrote: »

I don't know, i think it swings both ways in a lot of cases. The review scores for The Outer Wilds were so good that I was shocked when I downloaded it and realised it had some of the worst controls i've experienced in a game since the PS2 era :pac:

Yea I bounced off that one immediately, had the worst opening to a game I had seen since Okami.

SomeSayKos

Markitron wrote: »

Yea I bounced off that one immediately, had the worst opening to a game I had seen since Okami.

Yeah, it was a hard pass from me. I'm sure the game gets a lot better and I've heard great things about it, but i could not get into it at all due to the controls and the art style which did nothing for me.

For balance, my favourite game ever made: Thumper, that's a an indie game so yeah! go indie games!

Retr0gamer

For me it's not putting people down. It's more frustration that triple A games could be so much better and aren't. Sony are churning out mostly cookie cutter ubisoft open world games yet are capable of putting out the astro-bot games. And Sony used to be great at that. Plugging gaps in their release line up with interesting releases.

Then they close Japan studios.

Also all indie games aren't janky messes. Some game's ambition outpaces the hardware and engine sure but there's plenty of solidly made indie games. Hollow Knight and Ghostrunner put to shame many big budget games. And ambitious but janky games can be greater than the sum of their parts. Stuff like Stalker and Pathologic are fascinating games worth putting up with the jank for the incredible experience. It's not something the triple A industry is immune from either. Look at any Bethesda game.

pixelburp

"Cut your cloth according to your size" would have never brought us Stardew Valley, Minecraft, Horace, Dwarf Fortress and countless other titles. Solo, or tiny studio development is a bit of a cornerstone of the industry, and having read some post-mortems from smaller developers, plus dabbled in coding myself, I can appreciate how it's very hard to simply say "the game will be X and no further". Real development never works out that way, and even AAA games aren't immune from time to timem.

Interesting segue about Obra Dinn, 'cos yeah, as much as it is lauded as one of these "indie darlings", I know I couldn't play it purely for its art style. All the praise in the world simply won't get me to play something I know within 30 minutes will have caused a gigantic headache.

johnny_ultimate

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

Additionally, indie games should definitely not get more critical leeway just because of their budget constraints, especially because they are becoming a lot more, for a lack of a better term, "sophisticated" in their presentation overall despite those constraints. As my dad used to say, "cut your cloth according to your size."

Nah, I'm happy to tolerate a bit more jank in my low-budget, small-team games as long as it doesn't drastically undermine the core experience (or make the game unplayable through crashes etc - that's unforgivable regardless of the project size *coughcdprcough*). This doesn’t, of course, extend to proclaiming something a masterpiece just because it’s indie, but rather simply judging whether it succeeds within/despite its constraints.

I'd use the example of Umurangi Generation, one of my favourite games of last year. A tiny game made by one or two people. The basic movement around the environment is jankier than even your higher-profile first-person indie game. The objective design can be a bit ramshackle too. But the game is such a success in terms of exploring its themes and central conceits that the balance shifts very much in favour of the good stuff than the small number of rough edges. It also delivers the very best photo mode in all of gaming in the process The developer picked his battles and priorities and the game won out.

Hell, some developers have gone and made jank their aesthetic to quite wonderful effect IMO. Then again the nature of independent development means there's always going to be a wide variety of team sizes and experience levels. Some indie games are polished to an absolute mirror shine. Even in the biggest budget space only the likes of Naughty Dogs deliver the kind of polish you see in Inside, Sayonara Wild Hearts or Hades. But that's indie games for you - everything from first-time hobbyist developers to mid-tier, acclaimed, best-in-class studios.

micah537

I know this is more broadband than gaming and probably the wrong section but I'm switching from Sky 100mbps to Vodafone 500mbps and SKY are trying to convince me that Vodafone isn't as good for gaming.

They are saying switching to Vodafone is a mistake.


Is this nonsense? I'm using a PS4 Pro through wi-fi not Ethernet.

Spear

micah537 wrote: »

I know this is more broadband than gaming and probably the wrong section but I'm switching from Sky 100mbps to Vodafone 500mbps and SKY are trying to convince me that Vodafone isn't as good for gaming.

They are saying switching to Vodafone is a mistake.


Is this nonsense? I'm using a PS4 Pro through wi-fi not Ethernet.

It's nonsense by Sky. There's loads of factors involved, such as distance to the game servers, local contention, routing, peering etc. There's no way they can make such an unjustified and general claim like that.

micah537

thanks I was thinking it was a scare tactic.

The Raging Bile Duct

micah537 wrote: »

I know this is more broadband than gaming and probably the wrong section but I'm switching from Sky 100mbps to Vodafone 500mbps and SKY are trying to convince me that Vodafone isn't as good for gaming.

They are saying switching to Vodafone is a mistake.


Is this nonsense? I'm using a PS4 Pro through wi-fi not Ethernet.

I did have hassle with my PS4 Pro and Vodafone - I couldn't get it to connect through the ethernet. I ended up getting homeplugs. Although since then I've gotten a new modem from them and a PS5. I still have the Pro but I still have it going through the homeplugs. I must check can it connect to the ethernet with the new modem. I can test it later and get back to you. It's not a 500mbps line though.

martyos121

micah537 wrote: »

I know this is more broadband than gaming and probably the wrong section but I'm switching from Sky 100mbps to Vodafone 500mbps and SKY are trying to convince me that Vodafone isn't as good for gaming.

They are saying switching to Vodafone is a mistake.


Is this nonsense? I'm using a PS4 Pro through wi-fi not Ethernet.

Your hardware will make a much bigger difference than your ISP. If you have a router that has decent QOS features, you can prioritise traffic for gaming to give you the most stable connection possible.

I don’t know what Vodafone or Sky’s gear is like, but if VF’s supplied router doesn’t have QOS and Sky’s does, then they might have a point.

There’s a lot of people here who could explain this better than me, but you should look into a third party router if you want to get the best possible online gaming experience, no matter who your ISP is. That’s if you don’t already have one of course.

one armed dwarf

Yeah get a third party router if that's a concern. Most of the ISP supplied ones are incredibly ****e anyway.

micah537

I have stayed with Sky after they gave me a €47 discount making them just €10 dearer than Vodafone and they upgraded to 500mbps.

Thanks for the suggestions on the router. I will look into it

CastorTroy

With the release of Godzilla vs Kong, I remembered hearing of a PS4 game that was in development that featured characters from Godzilla, Ultraman and Evangelion. Seems it only released in Japan and main reason for not being localised seems to be licensing issues. Kyoei Toshi, aka City of Giant Shadows.
So was wondering, what other games from this or last gen would you like to see localised or you are surprised haven't been localised? I know there are loads from earlier gens like Mother 3, that are popular.

Had a look at the Cemu and Yuzu emulators a bit recently.

I thought Cemu was broken playing BOTW because of the sound so looked up a playthrough and it actually sounds like that. Didn't grab me whatsoever. I put it down after two hours or so and will never play it again.

Super Mario Odyssey was a lot better and played remarkably well, but didn't really grab me either.

Then I tried to get into RDR2 again and decided it's absolutely 100% not for me, so I reinstalled Kingdom Come: Deliverance and it's as amazing as I remember. Started a new save and it maxed out with the HD texture pack is gorgeous. Highly recommended.

And of course still bashing out some Hades which I can see being part of my gaming for a long time. Unbelievable game.

wotzgoingon

Currently playing through GTA V on Xbox. Played it originally on Xbox 360 at release date and then got it on PC at release also and now playing on Xbox Series X at 4k is a big difference than playing on PC at 4k with a 6900 XT even my old 5700 XT at 4k was better than it is on Xbox but I suppose it wasn't remastered yet anyway to take advantage of the Series X hardware.

Greyfox

Deleted User wrote: »

And of course still bashing out some Hades which I can see being part of my gaming for a long time. Unbelievable game.

I'm playing Hades too and absolutely blown away, best game since BOTW and one of the best games of the last 15 years. Its very very difficult to put down as every run rewards you with lots of different things and the games writing is top notch.

Greyfox

Greyfox wrote: »

I'm playing Hades too and absolutely blown away, best game since BOTW and one of the best games of the last 15 years. Its very very difficult to put down as every run rewards you with lots of different things and the games writing is top notch.

It's hard to think of a game that is so relentless in providing entertainment and joy. Didn't think it would be my bag at all and now I'm recommending it to everyone.

pixelburp

Apparently there are over 300,000 words in Hades' script. And I've barely come across a bad - or even repeated - line yet. It's astonishing. I'm sure someone will be right along saying it's not all that great, but they'd be wrong

I'd say my top 5 games in no particular order are Morrowind with all the newest mods etc., Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Hades, Rocket league even though I refuse to ever play it again because I value my mental well-being, and Halo 3.

Mass Effect 1, Knights and Merchants, Witcher 3, Beat Saber, Civ 4/5, and Smash Bros on GameCube are also very memorable. I had a big hiatus from gaming so missed a lot in the middle.

johnny_ultimate

One of the best parts about Hades - and it has a shedload of best parts - is how generous it is to different types of players. You happy to play casually and bow out after the final boss? You’ll get a satisfying experience. Want to push on and experiment with the different tools? You’re well covered as well. Want to play something tougher and harder at great length? Again, there’s a lot of game there for you to dig into. No matter how much time you want to give it, you’ll have a damn good time... and there’s always generous, conclusive out points where you can bow out knowing you’ve had a complete and satisfying experience.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's hard to think of a game that is so relentless in providing entertainment and joy. Didn't think it would be my bag at all and now I'm recommending it to everyone.

I'll confess, I found the Binding Of Isaac to be insanely addictive but Hades was a new level.

J. Marston

I've lost count of the times I've uninstalled and reinstalled Borderlands 2. Never get tired of it.

Got nothing to play so it gets another reinstall for a month until the Mass Effect Trilogy releases.

Jordan 199

J. Marston wrote: »

I've lost count of the times I've uninstalled and reinstalled Borderlands 2. Never get tired of it.

Got nothing to play so it gets another reinstall for a month until the Mass Effect Trilogy releases.

Borderlands 2 is a great game. I loved playing Tales from the Borderlands too.

one armed dwarf

I did put quite a bit of time into Hades but personally it still doesn't address the problem I have with games like that where they are so boring and repetitive. I heard a lot of people say how the story dripfeed smoothed over the more monotonous aspects of it but I never got that at all, the story drip feed was too slow.

It plays really well but overall I think I didn't enjoy it much, I wouldn't play another roguelike again after it. I think it's a bad genre if I'm perfectly brutally honest about it.