Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

hmmm · 16-07-2020 9:26am

BPKS wrote: »

Is there a case for allowing everything to open in unaffected areas and restrict travel to/from areas where there are significant numbers?

But then again that wouldn't suit the people in NPHET cos most of them probably live and work in the area with the significant numbers.

I'm not sure that works in this country, we are too small and people commute over long distances. Plus we have way too many back roads to get around any restrictions.

Besides, Sligo was the epicenter of outbreaks in recent weeks, it can pop up anywhere in the country.

Akabusi · 16-07-2020 9:27am

The reality is that most small rural pubs are just not suited to social distancing and would not have good circulation of air. Also the idea that a pub is okay just because it can serve food is not right either. Each pub should have underwent a suitability to open inspection, where they show an inspector the plans they have and the mods they made to keep their patrons safe. This thing is going to be with us for the foreseeable so its time to be proactive and learn to live with it.

The White Wolf · 16-07-2020 9:28am

boombang wrote: »

Show me your foolproof rule for differentiating between drinking establishments in which people will behave sensibly and those in which they won't. Show me the same rule that all pubs will be happy with. We were in a smart enough restaurant. Not the place where you'd expect that behavior.

I like the pub. I just think we need to deal with this deadly virus in a sensible way. If we can't expect everyone to be sensible in the pub, they we're going to have to wait longer.

In that case, all restaurants and pubs must close unless you think you have the game won by where you frequent?

sydthebeat · 16-07-2020 9:29am

BPKS wrote: »

This is the nub of it.

Why not just shut down areas of the country that have high cases. Like Dublin. Don't let people in or out for a month.

The house party you refer to was a bunch that travelled from Dublin to Killarney when one of them was awaiting the results of his Covid test. (That a-hole should be locked up by the way - what he did was way worse that those people 'coughing' on Guards back a few months ago).

Kerry was Covid free for 30 days in a row around May/early June.

Is there a case for allowing everything to open in unaffected areas and restrict travel to/from areas where there are significant numbers?

But then again that wouldn't suit the people in NPHET cos most of them probably live and work in the area with the significant numbers.

100%

Regionalise it and micro manage it.
Lockdown the areas of high incidents and high risk behaviour.

Blanket policies for the whole country at this stage is brutalism.

NIMAN · 16-07-2020 9:32am

BPKS wrote: »

This is the nub of it.

Why not just shut down areas of the country that have high cases. Like Dublin. Don't let people in or out for a month.

The house party you refer to was a bunch that travelled from Dublin to Killarney when one of them was awaiting the results of his Covid test. (That a-hole should be locked up by the way - what he did was way worse that those people 'coughing' on Guards back a few months ago).

Kerry was Covid free for 30 days in a row around May/early June.

Is there a case for allowing everything to open in unaffected areas and restrict travel to/from areas where there are significant numbers?

But then again that wouldn't suit the people in NPHET cos most of them probably live and work in the area with the significant numbers.

Yeah this "one size fits all" approach isn't fair on the country as a whole.

If counties are doing well and have no new cases in weeks, they should get relaxations in front of places that can't control themselves.

Like NSW in Australia......if one area offends, shut it down.

No reason to shut a small rural pub which is doing its best just because there were people partying in Dame Street with pop-up DJs.

DuffleBag · 16-07-2020 9:32am

Assetbacked wrote: »

This is my 4th pint of the evening, post-work, with dinner ingested and contact details provided. It is shocking that I couldn't do the same thing without the food for another few weeks but I can have gaff parties with less accountability to my heart's content.

You couldn't go without no?

Tenzor07 · 16-07-2020 9:33am

If part of the idea is to get the number of cases down to zero or single figures so the schools can go back..and pushing the re-opening of pubs until August 10th means if there's any "Spike" in cases it will come just before the schools reopen meaning a large number of parents could be infected and will have to isolate with the kids also and not send them back to school...
So can anyone see the pub opening date being kicked down the line even further?

hmmm · 16-07-2020 9:34am

NIMAN wrote: »

If counties are doing well and have no new cases in weeks, they should get relaxations in front of places that can't control themselves.

And how do you stop everyone heading to (say) Galway if the pubs in Limerick are closed?

Or what happens people who work in Cork who commute from Kerry?

Or a farmer who has a field on one side of the county border?

What about people who live close to the border of their county, and they have friends/family/shops/hospitals etc on the other side?

BPKS · 16-07-2020 9:40am

hmmm wrote: »

And how do you stop everyone heading to (say) Galway if the pubs in Limerick are closed?

Or what happens people who work in Cork who commute from Kerry?

Or a farmer who has a field on one side of the county border?

What about people who live close to the border of their county, and they have friends/family/shops/hospitals etc on the other side?

The Gardaí set up road blocks. Stop every car. Turn people back if they don't have good reason to be crossing a county border.

If you are commuting you get a letter from your employer (remember work at home where possible still applies).

There was no restriction on farmers moving around during the lockdown as they were classified essential workers.

ixoy · 16-07-2020 9:41am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Lockdown the areas of high incidents and high risk behaviour.

So if there's a small cluster the other side of Dublin from me, in one electoral district, due to some idiots having a house party - something you won't be able to stop - you lock down the entire county? It needs to be a nuanced approach.

paw patrol · 16-07-2020 9:42am

hmmm wrote: »

Very little of this is enforceable, that's not the type of country we are. It's your personal decision whether to be part of the national effort or not.

Lots of people are taking it seriously. A minority of loud and mostly obnoxious people are not.

call me obnoxious then.

We have opened up the country a bit and have gone from about 350 active cases to 571 (a small increase as would be expected) - with only 9 people in serious condition. NINE!!
We have a population of 5million.
The numbers are so low. These restrictions are not justified by any stretch. And there is no scientific benefit to wearing a mask . None.

It's amazing the number of people posting here who believe in the man on the telly . Micheal Martin whom most of you wouldn't piss now yet now take his word as gospel.

How easy have most of you just given up your basic freedoms. How easy are you being controlled ? Think about how quickly you have lost all that and think of the gombeens who are cheering it along.
It's tragic that we are being effected by this climate of fear.

If restrictions work , then they'd close the boarder and allow us operate within the country in relative isolation. But they don't do that. Why?
Cos they don't know what they are doing.

Charles Babbage · 16-07-2020 9:53am

The gombeens are those who are spreading the virus, not those trying to stop it

murpho999 · 16-07-2020 9:55am

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

I understand the meal rules but they are nonsense. If I want go tomorrow sit down for 105 or whatever ridiculous number it is now have a few pints and go home,. I shouldn't have to eat overpiced food too

But then you don't understand it.

The 105 minutes was the time limit imposed to allow people to have a meal in a restaurant and then pubs began to operate as restaurants within that time frame
The €9 was just a number picked to clarify what would count as a meal.

So when you now go to a pub you're not technically going to a pub but a restaurant and therefore it's for a meal and not pints.

So "pubs" are not open on the brought forward date of July 20th and now reverts back to the scheduled August date.

robbiezero · 16-07-2020 9:58am

ablelocks wrote: »

it's a good thing - from what I've seen, social distancing is not happening effectively in shops or restaurants. Not at the beach or on the streets. Not at all in sports training I'm involved in or by supporters at the challenge matches I've been to. There isn't a hope in hell that a pub can operate and not be a focal point for COVID 19.

Think about it - the people who are getting out and about as it is aren't doing what they're supposed to do.

If the pub's reopened on Monday, it would coincide with the restart of most GAA (and other sports) matches. So on the weekend of the 25th, people will go to a match, congregate in the ground, roar and shout and then go to the pub!

If Covid could talk this is what it would ask for - a perfect opportunity to reset and tear into us again.

Look at the evidence from around the world in countries that have eased their lockdowns.

I love going to the pub (or used to) but this is just asking for our hospitals to be overloaded again and all our efforts over the last 5 months will have been in vain.

So what changes in 3 weeks time?

hmmm · 16-07-2020 9:59am

paw patrol wrote: »

How easy have most of you just given up your basic freedoms. How easy are you being controlled ? Think about how quickly you have lost all that and think of the gombeens who are cheering it along.
It's tragic that we are being effected by this climate of fear.

If restrictions work , then they'd close the boarder and allow us operate within the country in relative isolation. But they don't do that. Why?
Cos they don't know what they are doing.

We are not going to lock down entire countries, spending a fortune and with huge social cost, just so you can get a pint. Neither are we going to allow this virus to run rampant across the country, just because a small group of people believe it is something trivial.

Squeeonline · 16-07-2020 10:04am

paw patrol wrote: »

call me obnoxious then.

We have opened up the country a bit and have gone from about 350 active cases to 571 (a small increase as would be expected) - with only 9 people in serious condition. NINE!!
We have a population of 5million.
The numbers are so low. These restrictions are not justified by any stretch. And there is no scientific benefit to wearing a mask . None.

It's amazing the number of people posting here who believe in the man on the telly . Micheal Martin whom most of you wouldn't piss now yet now take his word as gospel.

How easy have most of you just given up your basic freedoms. How easy are you being controlled ? Think about how quickly you have lost all that and think of the gombeens who are cheering it along.
It's tragic that we are being effected by this climate of fear.

If restrictions work , then they'd close the boarder and allow us operate within the country in relative isolation. But they don't do that. Why?
Cos they don't know what they are doing.

Why don't you give us your opinions on 5G while you're at it. I'm sure you have all the answers.

firemansam4 · 16-07-2020 10:05am

robbiezero wrote:

So what changes in 3 weeks time?

It gives them time to see how things develop in the next 3 weeks.
If cases continue to rise I think pubs will be staying closed for a lot longer than 3 weeks.

nthclare · 16-07-2020 10:05am

it's amazing how a lot of our social problems come down to drink.

I can empathize with people who love a social few pints and are able to adhere to the suggested guidelines.

But it's the same jocks and gannets who ruin it for everyone.

A man and a woman are entitled to a few sociable drinks.

Just remember it's the gombeens who ruined it for everyone,not covid or the political class.

But the plebs who lack personal responsibility and cannot enjoy a drink without slobbering and being idiot's.

For the sake of a year or two,why can't people behave themselves ?

It's not hard to have control over one's behaviour.

murpho999 · 16-07-2020 10:05am

robbiezero wrote: »

So what changes in 3 weeks time?

More time to suppress the virus and bring the R number down which has been rising over the last couple of weeks.

almostover · 16-07-2020 10:09am

Tenzor07 wrote: »

If part of the idea is to get the number of cases down to zero or single figures so the schools can go back..and pushing the re-opening of pubs until August 10th means if there's any "Spike" in cases it will come just before the schools reopen meaning a large number of parents could be infected and will have to isolate with the kids also and not send them back to school...
So can anyone see the pub opening date being kicked down the line even further?

I cant see it happening in 2020 tbh, back to school will be prioritised and rightly so.

robbiezero · 16-07-2020 10:10am

murpho999 wrote: »

More time to suppress the virus and bring the R number down which has been rising over the last couple of weeks.

We’ve said before that this estimate is really quite unreliable when you’ve got very low numbers, and therefore the estimate is varying quite widely

Professor Nolan on the R number.

paw patrol · 16-07-2020 10:11am

Squeeonline wrote: »

Why don't you give us your opinions on 5G while you're at it. I'm sure you have all the answers.

:rolleyes:

I gave actual numbers and an argument but you can't counter with anything other than some cheap ill-informed jibe.
It must be wonderful not to have to think for yourself and just follow what you see on tv.

No wonder people are so easy to control if that's the best you can muster.

paw patrol · 16-07-2020 10:13am

hmmm wrote: »

We are not going to lock down entire countries, spending a fortune and with huge social cost, just so you can get a pint. Neither are we going to allow this virus to run rampant across the country, just because a small group of people believe it is something trivial.

I don't fully agree with your statement but nothing you say is that outlandish
but you haven't addressed the point of my post.
The numbers and the actual reality

is_that_so · 16-07-2020 10:15am

hmmm wrote: »

Very little of this is enforceable, that's not the type of country we are. It's your personal decision whether to be part of the national effort or not.

Lots of people are taking it seriously. A minority of loud and mostly obnoxious people are not.

Mask wearing in shops is currently 1/5 at most, so the majority of the country are obnoxious by this reasoning. What are the rest, chosen ones?

weisses · 16-07-2020 10:19am

Dingle is packed with tourists ... No social distancing, no face masks .... Fun fair is in town. Time to lock down the place again...... This won't end well otherwise

is_that_so · 16-07-2020 10:19am

robbiezero wrote: »

Professor Nolan on the R number.

My feeling about what they decided yesterday is that they got rattled by that R0 number and NPHET's "alarm". That's fine but it's more than a bit like changing your mind about a picnic on the day because you didn't think to check the weather forecast in advance.

murpho999 · 16-07-2020 10:20am

robbiezero wrote: »

Professor Nolan on the R number.

Wel what does that quote show? An esitmate may not be accurate. It doesn't say if it's going up or not.

Here's two articles with quotes from the same professor saying that we need to be cautious as the number of cases are increasing..

Irish Mirror

RTE

firemansam4 · 16-07-2020 10:24am

is_that_so wrote:

Mask wearing in shops is currently 1/5 at most, so the majority of the country are obnoxious by this reasoning. What are the rest, chosen ones?

Mask wearing is one thing but there is clearly a sub section of people who don't give a rats arse about this virus and spreading it, you have large house parties going on, and people just ignoring any social distancing guidelines whatsoever.

ixoy · 16-07-2020 10:36am

firemansam4 wrote: »

Mask wearing is one thing but there is clearly a sub section of people who don't give a rats arse about this virus and spreading it, you have large house parties going on, and people just ignoring any social distancing guidelines whatsoever.

Yep, and they're the real problem I suspect. Not sure what can be done there and it's not just an Irish problem.

nthclare · 16-07-2020 10:38am

weisses wrote: »

Dingle is packed with tourists ... No social distancing, no face masks .... Fun fair is in town. Time to lock down the place again...... This won't end well otherwise

It'll be the usual numpties that aren't social distancing, middle class curtain twitching type's.

The monkey's are back in Dingle and the Circus is back in town.

No doubt, it's encouraging to see a fun fair but what's stopping fiacra and oisine from wiping their slobber around Dingle and some local baring the brunt of it or a tourist.

alentejo · 16-07-2020 10:48am

I think the Gov should be honest with publicans at this stage.

They should clearly state if or when pubs may be allowed open.

If they are to be closed for a prolonged period supports should be put in place when this God awful disease is over, the pubs we all love and hate are allowed to open. I don't like the idea of the Irish Pub disappearing forever. I think there is a real danger that as things stand, many pubs will never reopen again.

I also think if they are planning to reopen pubs, they should advocate outdoor solutions such as when the smoking ban came in.

Hurrache · 16-07-2020 10:51am

nthclare wrote: »

It'll be the usual numpties that aren't social distancing, middle class curtain twitching type's.

Why is this myth being perpetuated, It's even a contradiction in terms, you're either behind your curtains looking out the window, or you're out mixing with your Pimms.

some local baring the brunt of it or a tourist

Are these mythical people not tourists?

LuasSimon · 16-07-2020 11:00am

alentejo wrote: »

I think the Gov should be honest with publicans at this stage.

They should clearly state if or when pubs may be allowed open.

If they are to be closed for a prolonged period supports should be put in place when this God awful disease is over, the pubs we all love and hate are allowed to open. I don't like the idea of the Irish Pub disappearing forever. I think there is a real danger that as things stand, many pubs will never reopen again.

I also think if they are planning to reopen pubs, they should advocate outdoor solutions such as when the smoking ban came in.

The government are only concerned with what happens in Dublin and a few other large centres like the greater Dublin satellite towns plus cork & Galway .

Rural Ireland is been slowly but surely closed down over the past ten years, closing garda stations, post offices , directing all jobs to Dublin . The main thing is most Dublin pubs are open as they serve food, nobody in government cares about rural Ireland anymore.

DuffleBag · 16-07-2020 11:04am

murpho999 wrote: »

But then you don't understand it.

The 105 minutes was the time limit imposed to allow people to have a meal in a restaurant and then pubs began to operate as restaurants within that time frame
The €9 was just a number picked to clarify what would count as a meal.

So when you now go to a pub you're not technically going to a pub but a restaurant and therefore it's a for a meal and not pints.

So "pubs" are not open on the brought forward date of July 20th and now reverts back to the scheduled August date.

Underrated post! Nail on the head here.

Tenzor07 · 16-07-2020 11:05am

alentejo wrote: »

I think the Gov should be honest with publicans at this stage.They should clearly state if or when pubs may be allowed open..

The Govt. can't be honest with the Publicans because they don't know... the policy is "Hope"..... Lets restrict the masses as much as possible to keep the figures low, and of course all the medics would keep things under Phase 2 for as long as possible...
MM and FF have again abdicated Govt. policy to the heads of the various medical depts. in the HSE.

nthclare · 16-07-2020 11:07am

Hurrache wrote: »

Why is this myth being perpetuated, It's even a contradiction in terms, you're either behind your curtains looking out the window, or you're out mixing with your Pimms.

Are these mythical people not tourists?

I mean it's the type of people who were curtain twitchers during the lock down, but then they'll be the first to think they're entitled to do what they want.

Do as I say not as I do types.

doxy79 · 16-07-2020 11:21am

I don't understand what the govt expect to change (in a positive direction) that will allow the pubs to reopen on August 10th? We'll be in the same position or likely slightly worse in 3 weeks time.

Richard Hillman · 16-07-2020 11:27am

almostover wrote: »

Would you be willing to admit that we have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol in this country?

Some people do, some people don't. It's all about personal choice and it's not up to health Quangos and NGOs to interfere in our personal choices. They have the right to advise but not enforce things upon us. They have no mandate, they have not been elected by anybody.

Hotblack Desiato · 16-07-2020 11:29am

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Simon Harris and Varadker were on an absolute mission to try and end the drinking culture in Ireland over the last 4 years.

Nonsense

It was officially FG policy to protect pubs

Minimum unit pricing - hit home drinkers hard, doesn't hit pub drinkers at all

Ban discount vouchers, booze burkas - same

This is the ONLY measure to affect pubs, and a global crisis has forced them into it. Up until now, you'd swear pub alcohol was immune from any health effects while off-licences were selling something worse than crack, heroin and meth mixed together....

These are the people who claim we have something called "cheap alcohol" in this country, when it doesn't exist and we have the second most expensive drink in the EU. Germany taxes beer the same as food, ffs...

political analyst · 16-07-2020 11:31am

LuasSimon wrote: »

The government are only concerned with what happens in Dublin and a few other large centres like the greater Dublin satellite towns plus cork & Galway .

Rural Ireland is been slowly but surely closed down over the past ten years, closing garda stations, post offices , directing all jobs to Dublin . The main thing is most Dublin pubs are open as they serve food, nobody in government cares about rural Ireland anymore.

You're talking as if people in the cities were unscathed by austerity - they weren't!

Hotblack Desiato · 16-07-2020 11:32am

lertsnim wrote: »

Padraig Cribben of the VFI on Newstalk this morning calling for the ban of alcohol sales in supermarkets to stop house parties so pubs can eventually open.

Quelle surprise... :rolleyes:

PhilOssophy · 16-07-2020 11:36am

I love a few pints and miss the pub but I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for the VFI. Every time I hear them coming on the radio, its complain complain complain. If they had their way, it'd be OK for a lad to fall out of a pub after 5 pints into the drivers seat and drive home and the pub would have been open all throughout this pandemic. Great people to play the poor mouth but most of them serving food never passed on the VAT reduction when it was made and then complained with it was pushed back up again.

When you are on the same wavelength as Danny Healy-Rae, you are occupying dangerous territory in the common sense world.

The pubs that are open seem to have taken their pub name off their receipts, because they know they are taking the p1ss with the rules.

If house parties are the problem, then add about €3 tax to every can of beer and similar increases by the strength of the drink to every other alcoholic product sold in a supermarket. It'd help the government get a lot of their €350 back if this summer has just descended into a 3-month party.

Hotblack Desiato · 16-07-2020 11:37am

GazzaL wrote: »

There was no problem if you didn't wear a mask in shops at the peak of the pandemic.

They're allowing a lot more people at a time into shops now, queues at my local Dunnes and Tesco are mostly non-existent now, used to be three quarters of an hour.

ExMachina1000 · 16-07-2020 11:42am

Friends of mine booked a table last weekend. Ate at around 7 and drank until after midnight.

Rural pub.

hmmm · 16-07-2020 11:43am

Tenzor07 wrote: »

The Govt. can't be honest with the Publicans because they don't know... the policy is "Hope"

The policy is to follow the science. We don't know enough about the virus to say exactly what measures slow it down or speed it up, so the government has to be very careful how much fuel they feed.

We know that indoor settings are more dangerous than outdoors. We know that talking, particularly loud talking (e.g. singing) is more dangerous than quiet. We know that alcohol leads to reduced social distancing. It doesn't take much to figure out that a busy pub (not a restaurant or a pub-restaurant) is relatively high-risk.

Hotblack Desiato · 16-07-2020 11:44am

paw patrol wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I gave actual numbers and an argument but you can't counter with anything other than some cheap ill-informed jibe.
It must be wonderful not to have to think for yourself and just follow what you see on tv.

No wonder people are so easy to control if that's the best you can muster.

Just tell the virus you're a freeman on the land. No contract! No consent!

hmmm · 16-07-2020 11:46am

PhilOssophy wrote: »

If house parties are the problem, then add about €3 tax to every can of beer and similar increases by the strength of the drink to every other alcoholic product sold in a supermarket. It'd help the government get a lot of their €350 back if this summer has just descended into a 3-month party.

That's not a bad idea - a big increase on cheap alcohol for a short period of time only. The 10 person restriction is also a good idea - it won't stop people who don't care, but for people who are more responsible it will force them to stop and think. I also think the Guards have a role to play here in breaking up large parties (particularly indoors).

Ultimately there's only so much we can do to force this to stop - it's up to everyone to take personal responsibility also.

Beanybabog · 16-07-2020 11:49am

I think the timing of this is disgraceful. I imagine some pubs spent a lot of money they don’t have right now getting ready for Monday, to have it pulled from under them last minute. The government should never have moved the date forward from August in the first place- moving things forward only works when you’re actually going to do it now. I’m not saying I think pubs should be opening- there’s good arguments on both side, but the communication and flip flopping of this government is pathetic. They pay lip service to all the things they’re going to do to support businesses and fail to acknowledge their own indecisiveness and poor communication is adding to the problems in many sectors

hetuzozaho · 16-07-2020 11:50am

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Friends of mine booked a table last weekend. Ate at around 7 and drank until after midnight.

Rural pub.

Give people an inch as they say!

tscul32 · 16-07-2020 11:51am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

They're allowing a lot more people at a time into shops now, queues at my local Dunnes and Tesco are mostly non-existent now, used to be three quarters of an hour.

I also feel that shoppers have become complacent with the lower case levels. Far more kids back running around in the aisles, people leaning in front of you to get stuff. Social distancing inside the shops has died a death. I didn't wear a mask at the height (couldn't actually find any in the shops, then ordered online) but I wear one now. I also think the area you're in affects how many are wearing them, I'm in Dublin and quite a few wearing them in my local supermarkets and shopping centre, but was in Athlone the other day and far fewer in masks, had some aul one comment about keeping away from me because of my mask??

Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

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