Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

PhilOssophy

Deleted User wrote: »

Do people not think we might have to live with this.What if it never goes away,we might never find a vaccine. Do people think pubs should stay closed until a vaccines found

Might be worth your while having a read about where they are with a vaccine......although I presume the posters on here are working on a vaccine, they seem to know so much about public health and infectious diseases.....

PhilOssophy

You would swear by the open the pub posts above comparing pubs to house parties that pubs are some bastion of safety, law and order, controlled environment, blah blah.

There are pubs in this country where the tables would hardly be wiped from one day to the next unless they were cleaning up vomit. There are toilets where the attitude is to throw a load of bleach in the door, job done. Where fresh air hasn't blown through the pub since they changed the windows 50 years ago. Where a towel is perfect for drying hands and at best a bar of soap. Where glasses are half-washed.

What planet are people on that they think it would be safe to open such kips?

Publicans aren't going to stand behind the bar saying "Now Paddy, you social distance from Seamus there" all evening.

I can't wait for the pubs to re-open, but I want it to be safe to do so. Given the Irish Times today talking about reverting to Phase 2 type restrictions is a sobering thought.

firemansam4

PhilOssophy wrote: »

You would swear by the open the pub posts above comparing pubs to house parties that pubs are some bastion of safety, law and order, controlled environment, blah blah.

There are pubs in this country where the tables would hardly be wiped from one day to the next unless they were cleaning up vomit. There are toilets where the attitude is to throw a load of bleach in the door, job done. Where fresh air hasn't blown through the pub since they changed the windows 50 years ago. Where a towel is perfect for drying hands and at best a bar of soap. Where glasses are half-washed.

What planet are people on that they think it would be safe to open such kips?

Publicans aren't going to stand behind the bar saying "Now Paddy, you social distance from Seamus there" all evening.

I can't wait for the pubs to re-open, but I want it to be safe to do so. Given the Irish Times today talking about reverting to Phase 2 type restrictions is a sobering thought.

It's a scary thought that we may have to go back to phase 2 again. Yet you have people complaining because they have to wait a bit longer to get to the pub!

Now is not the time to open pubs, and I think they need to tighten the rules on gatherings in a house, should be max of 2 households IMO, and much more strickter enforcement of it.

Neowise

Deleted User wrote: »

Do people not think we might have to live with this.What if it never goes away,we might never find a vaccine. Do people think pubs should stay closed until a vaccines found

Vaccines need to be tested to be proven to work, but if we are completely closed down, then those trying to test the vaccine will have no virus exposure, and the results of the vaccine trial will be inconclusive.


In order for a vaccine to be found, there needs to be a means of contracting the virus out in public.


What use is being a trial vaccine person with zero chance of being exposed?

Hurrache

GazzaL wrote: »

You can have a rake of pints and an immunity steak sandwich without a mask, but if you want to run in and out of a shop to buy a loaf of bread you're risking armageddon if you don't wear a mask, apparently.

It's the straightforward details that people don't seem to understand.

You, or I, can go to a pub serving food all we want, aware of any potential risk that comes with it.

You can't avoid any necessary trips to a supermarket in which morons think they're too cool for a mask.

Macy0161

I do get the contradiction of the pubs that serve food being allowed. However, there is a whole level of extra checks because they serve food, due to food hygiene/ FSA requirements. It's not really just throw out "a steak sandwich" in the difference to be fair.

And it's still supposed to be time limited - as that's not happening in at least a significant minority of pubs that serve food, other publicans are also culpable in the delay, so the vintners should maybe look closer within their membership.

PhilOssophy

Neowise wrote: »

Vaccines need to be tested to be proven to work, but if we are completely closed down, then those trying to test the vaccine will have no virus exposure, and the results of the vaccine trial will be inconclusive.


In order for a vaccine to be found, there needs to be a means of contracting the virus out in public.


What use is being a trial vaccine person with zero chance of being exposed?

You clearly have not a clue how they test a vaccine.........

Phase 1 of a clinical trial is give it to perfectly healthy volunteers and see if they build up an immunity to the virus in question. They confirm the dose, side effects, etc. (ongoing at present)

Phase 2 is give it to a bigger group of people, of varying ages, health situations, etc. Check for the same issues, side effects, etc.

Phase 3 is to give it to thousands of people, but not everybody will actually get it. This is to guard against the placebo effect. Again, people are checked for side effects, dosage is confirmed for each age group, etc.

At this stage, I think it is up to regulators in every country to decide if they are happy for it to be given to the citizens of the country. I don't 100% know how this works but I presume we would get a directive from European level as to the safety of it.

On your logic, if the virus was wiped out and you had a problem of having nobody to trial it on, what would be the point of the vaccine in the first place?

PTH2009

I'm guessing that limerick pub that's opening Monday will be watched like a hawk by gardi

Allinall

PTH2009 wrote: »

I'm guessing that limerick pub that's opening Monday will be watched like a hawk by gardi

I'm guessing they won't open on Monday.

ExMachina1000

Drug dens not opening for another few weeks. Drug dealers federation not happy.

Priorities people

beggars_bush

ok, but they are a social outlet for a lot of older people

and most pubs down the countryside don't serve food

ExMachina1000

beggars_bush wrote: »

ok, but they are a social outlet for a lot of older people

and most pubs down the countryside don't serve food

This is very true.

But when you think about it the older people you see in the pubs are a handful of auld lads sipping pints every night of the week.

Where are the majority of old people in towns?

They might play seniors golf, they might attend the ladies club, they might attend a retirement club, a mens shed, out walking in the evening, gardening, visiting neighbor's . They might just be at home watching tv. Etc

Older people dont hang around sipping pints anymore. It's an inaccurate generalisation and not a true picture.

Think about it.

Obviously there are some who look forward to a pint and chat at the weekend. Many of us do but aren't these older people the very ones most likely to die from the virus

Macy0161

We've a social drinker former cocooner (based upon age) in our family. He was in no rush back to the pubs that serve food, nor was he thrilled by the expectation of his regular opening on Monday. 1 because of the risk, but also because being socially distanced isn't part of what he misses. It was the lads, squeezed in around the corner of the bar, having the chat.

I would say again, any that are relying on that trade anyway are either in trouble already, or have costs so low that they're not being put in trouble staying closed.

Spanish Eyes

The non food pubs are not opening. All the moaning in the world is not going to change that now. And according to Leo they might not even open again on the 10th either.

I don't care for pubs myself, but others do of course and that's fine. But you really have to think about it. Most ordinary pubs have no windows that open, the air can be very stagnant and being indoors at anything for longer than I dunno half an hour or so is a vector for the virus to spread. Like the house parties.

Now if we could only have outdoor spaces, with no punitive charges from the County Councils for daring to place a chair outside, together with heating and so on it would be so much better IMV. I know all about our weather, but they do it in other Northern European countries no matter what the weather, and it's rare enough to see people indoors. People watching is great.

But look it, each to their own. I won't be rushing to a pub any time soon.

I'm guessing the demographic that is going bananas about the pubs are under 30s. That's very understandable. But even some of those are wary too.

But we shall see what happens. I think the Gov want the cafe type culture to replace big drinking dens anyway. Temple Bar is deserted, most places even with food have not reopened, because there are no tourists, and Dubs wouldn't be seen dead there.

PhilOssophy

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Temple Bar is deserted, most places even with food have not reopened, because there are no tourists, and Dubs wouldn't be seen dead there.

If there is 1 group of publicans I have zero sympathy for, it is the ones in Temple Bar. I couldn't care if the robbing b's never open again.

robbiezero

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The non food pubs are not opening. All the moaning in the world is not going to change that now. And according to Leo they might not even open again on the 10th either.

I don't care for pubs myself, but others do of course and that's fine. But you really have to think about it. Most ordinary pubs have no windows that open, the air can be very stagnant and being indoors at anything for longer than I dunno half an hour or so is a vector for the virus to spread. Like the house parties.

Now if we could only have outdoor spaces, with no punitive charges from the County Councils for daring to place a chair outside, together with heating and so on it would be so much better IMV. I know all about our weather, but they do it in other Northern European countries no matter what the weather, and it's rare enough to see people indoors. People watching is great.

But look it, each to their own. I won't be rushing to a pub any time soon.

I'm guessing the demographic that is going bananas about the pubs are under 30s. That's very understandable. But even some of those are wary too.

But we shall see what happens. I think the Gov want the cafe type culture to replace big drinking dens anyway. Temple Bar is deserted, most places even with food have not reopened, because there are no tourists, and Dubs wouldn't be seen dead there.

I wouldn't agree. I'd say the demographic going most bananas are those watching their livelihoods getting ****ed over.
From my experience u30s were not that much into pubs anyway, certainly not where I live. They don't have the funds to be paying for it and also they can't imbibe/sniff the little extras they are so fond off.
Even before the lock down house parties were a bigger thing than the pub for them and maybe night clubs (which are f**ked for a long time I would reckon), so I'm not sure that demographic are too inconvenienced. The house parties are continuing as normal and getting more numerous by the day.

MOH

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The non food pubs are not opening. All the moaning in the world is not going to change that now. And according to Leo they might not even open again on the 10th either.

I don't care for pubs myself, but others do of course and that's fine. But you really have to think about it. Most ordinary pubs have no windows that open, the air can be very stagnant and being indoors at anything for longer than I dunno half an hour or so is a vector for the virus to spread.

The same applies to a lot of restaurants and pubs that do serve food. So why aren't they being closed down?

Come to that, if numbers are increasing, I don't see any real need for clothes shops, hairdressers, creches, shopping centres to be open. And I've no interest in any of them. So close those back down.

Saying numbers are increasing, and having the only response be that you're not going to open stuff that is already closed and thus clearly not contributing to those numbers makes zero sense.

Meanwhile there's no enforcement of quarantine for people entering the country from abroad. And no requirement to even fill in the form if you're in the State for less than two days.

We have absolutely nothing resembling a coherent policy

Spanish Eyes

robbiezero wrote: »

I wouldn't agree. I'd say the demographic going most bananas are those watching their livelihoods getting ****ed over.
From my experience u30s were not that much into pubs anyway, certainly not where I live. They don't have the funds to be paying for it and also they can't imbibe/sniff the little extras they are so fond off.
Even before the lock down house parties were a bigger thing than the pub for them and maybe night clubs (which are f**ked for a long time I would reckon), so I'm not sure that demographic are too inconvenienced. The house parties are continuing as normal and getting more numerous by the day.

You are probably correct, I'm not in that cohort anymore so I don't know, but I know they like a bit of nose candy etc.

So who the feck were filling up all these wet pubs apart from Tourists and oul lads?

DuffleBag

If ever there was an example of why they shouldn't be open ...


https://www.facebook.com/1055286667832048/posts/3665404126820276/?d=null&vh=e

robbiezero

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

You are probably correct, I'm not in that cohort anymore so I don't know, but I know they like a bit of nose candy etc.

So who the feck were filling up all these wet pubs apart from Tourists and oul lads?

I'm probably mainly in with a GAA crowd and would be middle-aged now.
For me, the levels of fitness now required to play even at a decent club level are miles ahead of where they were in my day so the lads in their 20s are very reluctant too spend much time drinking pints in pubs. Also probably not very flush with cash.

My generation (Mid Thirties <-> Mid Forties are probably far more likely to be in the pub that those in their 20s - disposable income, grew up with it etc.

Again this is only in my experience and its largely GAA centred. Others may differ.

growleaves

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

You are probably correct, I'm not in that cohort anymore so I don't know, but I know they like a bit of nose candy etc.

So who the feck were filling up all these wet pubs apart from Tourists and oul lads?

Does anyone on this thread actually go out? Some pubs in Dublin city centre would be half-filled on Thursday nights. Seven nights a week you see people walking around town who are dressed to go out. Then at the weekend it can be jammers.

Spanish Eyes

DuffleBag wrote: »

If ever there was an example of why they shouldn't be open ...


https://www.facebook.com/1055286667832048/posts/3665404126820276/?d=null&vh=e

Tazer or a can of hairspray straight between the eyes. Or a bucket of ice water over their head or something, and cable ties for the wrists and then a blindfold.

I suppose it went on everywhere. Keep the pubs closed I say!

Spanish Eyes

growleaves wrote: »

Does anyone on this thread actually go out? Some pubs in Dublin city centre would be half-filled on Thursday nights. Seven nights a week you see people walking around town who are dressed to go out. Then at the weekend it can be jammers.

The poster I was responding to said under 30s are not really pub goers anymore.

So it must be ahem the more mature and the tourists so?

And yes we do go out, but early enough and home early too before it gets messy. Mostly for a meal and then a nightcap after. Boring to some, but each to their own.

That's largely gone now, I know it's there if you want it, but I couldn't be bothered TBH.

stephenjmcd

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The poster I was responding to said under 30s are not really pub goers anymore.

So it must be ahem the more mature and the tourists so?

And yes we do go out, but early enough and home early too before it gets messy. Mostly for a meal and then a nightcap after. Boring to some, but each to their own.

That's largely gone now, I know it's there if you want it, but I couldn't be bothered TBH.

Under 30s aren't pub goers is nonsense.

Go out in Dublin city centre any night of the week and there's plenty of under 30s in pubs, myself and friends included.

We don't go to Temple bar because nobody except tourists pays 8 quid for a pint.

Camden street and wexford street would be much more popular.

lawrencesummers

hetuzozaho wrote: »

How many people were there out of interest?

I've been hearing stories about rural pubs on the radio, one was paying 900eur a month for sky sports and was too small a space to do food, just a little bigger than a house he said. How do these pubs make money?

The place probably has a fire cert for 100 people and there was about 25-30 in it. It’s a bit of a bnb as well so they opened up the breakfast room if you wanted to sit in there.


Was talking to a public an today, they biggest issue he has with the changes is the level of organisation he has had to go through to be ready to open and then it’s cancelled so close to when they were due to open. Beer has been brewed and delivered, now it has to go back, staff are being told they are not coming back now.

HeidiHeidi

DuffleBag wrote: »

If ever there was an example of why they shouldn't be open ...


https://www.facebook.com/1055286667832048/posts/3665404126820276/?d=null&vh=e

What was in the video?


Link won't work for me.

Danno

DuffleBag wrote: »

If ever there was an example of why they shouldn't be open ...

https://www.facebook.com/1055286667832048/posts/3665404126820276/?d=null&vh=e

Cause everyone who goes for a pint does this, even the old pensioner who lives alone. :rolleyes:

That muppet in the video should have had the side of his jaw broke by the staff. And if the guards came in - show them the video, then the guards should break the other side of his jaw.

Tolerance of this kinda muppetry is gone beyond a joke. In the 80s people like this would have been bet into a pulp.

PTH2009

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The place probably has a fire cert for 100 people and there was about 25-30 in it. It’s a bit of a bnb as well so they opened up the breakfast room if you wanted to sit in there.


Was talking to a public an today, they biggest issue he has with the changes is the level of organisation he has had to go through to be ready to open and then it’s cancelled so close to when they were due to open. Beer has been brewed and delivered, now it has to go back, staff are being told they are not coming back now.

yeah and then politicians coming out and saying they still might not open on the 10th Aug. Its deff not good for mental health of owners/workers, been told you're going back this day and then to notified no not yet

There's going to be a rise in cases the next few weeks and people having house parties etc might be a contributor to them. For pubs to open back up **** knows what the numbers have to be to make it happen.

How are pubs open all over Europe who have similar number of cases

Bloody joke and a farce

GazzaL

https://www.newstalk.com/news/pay-price-limerick-pub-open-government-advice-1047827

There's a pub in Limerick that have announced they're opening on Monday despite the delay. The owner makes a lot of fair points, and has invested heavily in preparing to re-open only to have NPHET attempt to pull the rug from under them. Hopefully they'll be well supported.

PTH2009

GazzaL wrote: »

https://www.newstalk.com/news/pay-price-limerick-pub-open-government-advice-1047827

There's a pub in Limerick that have announced they're opening on Monday despite the delay. The owner makes a lot of fair points, and has invested heavily in preparing to re-open only to have NPHET attempt to pull the rug from under them. Hopefully they'll be well supported.

Think he shot himself in the foot and the authorises will be watching him like a hawk

Its possible places will be extra vilagent regards current rules, time limits and such

cadaliac

PTH2009 wrote: »

Think he shot himself in the foot and the authorises will be watching him like a hawk

Its possible places will be extra vilagent regards current rules, time limits and such

Bit of a media stunt apparently by the same guy. He's literally waiting to be shut down by the cops, ready to go to the Joe Duffy show and moan about it.
No shortage of money either.
(only what I heard) I do not have a link or do I have any dealings with said person/business

Danno

GazzaL wrote: »

https://www.newstalk.com/news/pay-price-limerick-pub-open-government-advice-1047827

There's a pub in Limerick that have announced they're opening on Monday despite the delay. The owner makes a lot of fair points, and has invested heavily in preparing to re-open only to have NPHET attempt to pull the rug from under them. Hopefully they'll be well supported.

Was in the Offie tonight (attached to Pub) and the owner told me that technically there is no law stopping them opening the Pub part. Are they right?

lawrencesummers

Danno wrote: »

Was in the Offie tonight (attached to Pub) and the owner told me that technically there is no law stopping them opening the Pub part. Are they right?

There is a threat that when their licence come up for renewal this may be taken into account.

What could happen is the HSA will visit and tell him he is not being compliant, but I’m not so sure.

Personally if I had a pub I would open, with restrictions and plenty of measures in place, and not invite the national media into the decision.

road_high

cadaliac wrote: »

Bit of a media stunt apparently by the same guy. He's literally waiting to be shut down by the cops, ready to go to the Joe Duffy show and moan about it.
No shortage of money either.
(only what I heard) I do not have a link or do I have any dealings with said person/business

Why shouldn’t he take a stand and defend his livelihood and the business he’s worked hard to establish?
It’s fine for the cast of Nphet and the public service to pontificate on this one- they’re all on full salaries since March without suppliers etc to pay

PhilOssophy

road_high wrote: »

Why shouldn’t he take a stand and defend his livelihood and the business he’s worked hard to establish?
It’s fine for the cast of Nphet and the public service to pontificate on this one- they’re all on full salaries since March without suppliers etc to pay

If everybody had taken that stance over the last 5 months where would we be? Probably similar to the US or Italy at the time.

The publicans are one of the most self-entitled group of whingers in this country. Plenty of people lost their job in a heart beat and there wasn't a word, and still haven't re-started, so apologies if I am not getting out the violin for him if he thinks the rules don't apply to him.

ShamNNspace

cadaliac wrote: »

Bit of a media stunt apparently by the same guy. He's literally waiting to be shut down by the cops, ready to go to the Joe Duffy show and moan about it.
No shortage of money either.
(only what I heard) I do not have a link or do I have any dealings with said person/business

And what about that all important reelin in the years appearance repeated for ever and ever

Tenzor07

lawrencesummers wrote: »

There is a threat that when their licence come up for renewal this may be taken into account.
What could happen is the HSA will visit and tell him he is not being compliant, but I’m not so sure.
Personally if I had a pub I would open, with restrictions and plenty of measures in place, and not invite the national media into the decision.

This is the problem, all the pubs both food and non-food should have opened at the same time, with the increased hygiene standards in place, the HSE could have sent inspectors around the various establishments at random with the power to close down a pub temporarily where complete lack of increased safety measures were being observed..
No point having the Gards go around and threaten the Pub licence, a court hearing/review on the licence could take a year with the massive backlogs in the court...
All this non-€9 and €9 pub opening is the epitome of mixed messaging, either open them all or close them all...

PhilOssophy

Tenzor07 wrote: »

This is the problem, all the pubs both food and non-food should have opened at the same time, with the increased hygiene standards in place, the HSE could have sent inspectors around the various establishments at random with the power to close down a pub temporarily where complete lack of increased safety measures were being observed..
No point having the Gards go around and threaten the Pub licence, a court hearing/review on the licence could take a year with the massive backlogs in the court...
All this non-€9 and €9 pub opening is the epitome of mixed messaging, either open them all or close them all...

Agree with the general theme that they should either all have opened or not. You can't police "increase hygiene" though. It is too vague. "Of course I cleaned the toilet an hour ago" when it hasn't been cleaned in 3 days.

The pubs are closed because of human behaviour and there isn't really any standard for that.

Tenzor07

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Agree with the general theme that they should either all have opened or not. You can't police "increase hygiene" though. It is too vague. "Of course I cleaned the toilet an hour ago" when it hasn't been cleaned in 3 days.
The pubs are closed because of human behaviour and there isn't really any standard for that.

Well you'd easily be able to imagine what that entails, no bar service or at least widely spaced barstools and a specific area for ordering at the bar with perspex screen and single line que spaced for social distance, reduced indoor seating, increased outdoor seats where possible, staff santising touch points regularly, and a traffic light system for the jacks... it's not rocket science, it can be done to make sure food and non food bars can open... Any of these measures not in place can mean a temporary shutdown pending a re-inspection.
Any messers can be shown the door....

And pubs are open... just food ones.

Richard Hillman

Went to a ruralish pub earlier and asked if we had to buy food but they wouldn't play ball. Walked up the road to another pub and they were no at first but we said we were only having 1 drink and heading, so they they let us.

It is just baffling to think that we are somehow safer by having a plate of chips and goujons on the table with our pints. It is an abuse of power from NPHET in their push to attack our drinking culture. Absolutely nothing to do with Covid. Zip.

Risteard81

road_high wrote: »

Why shouldn’t he take a stand and defend his livelihood and the business he’s worked hard to establish?
It’s fine for the cast of Nphet and the public service to pontificate on this one- they’re all on full salaries since March without suppliers etc to pay

Their actions - and those of the politicians giving them this undeserved power - is nothing short of totalitarian and, indeed, Treasonous. And enforced wearing of masks is also totalitarian.

listermint

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Went to a ruralish pub earlier and asked if we had to buy food but they wouldn't play ball. Walked up the road to another pub and they were no at first but we said we were only having 1 drink and heading, so they they let us.

It is just baffling to think that we are somehow safer by having a plate of chips and goujons on the table with our pints. It is an abuse of power from NPHET in their push to attack our drinking culture. Absolutely nothing to do with Covid. Zip.

Wouldn't play ball what ?

PTH2009

Place im in the same people sitting at tables since i arrived 2 hours ago and still getting served. Everyone keeping to their groups no hugging and all that

freak scence

PTH2009 wrote: »

Place im in the same people sitting at tables since i arrived 2 hours ago and still getting served. Everyone keeping to their groups no hugging and all that

any riding going on

PTH2009

freak scence wrote: »

any riding going on

Don't think so nor do I care ha

3 more weeks til a bit of normality too pub life but ya now the government will block openings once again citing help official advice

freak scence

PhilOssophy wrote: »

If everybody had taken that stance over the last 5 months where would we be? Probably similar to the US or Italy at the time.

The publicans are one of the most self-entitled group of whingers in this country. Plenty of people lost their job in a heart beat and there wasn't a word, and still haven't re-started, so apologies if I am not getting out the violin for him if he thinks the rules don't apply to him.

they closed first voluntarily, you are the one doing the most whingeing

John O.Groats

Risteard81 wrote: »

Their actions - and those of the politicians giving them this undeserved power - is nothing short of totalitarian and, indeed, Treasonous. And enforced wearing of masks is also totalitarian.

Treasonous and totalitarian? WTF are you rambling on about?

rubadub

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It is just baffling to think that we are somehow safer by having a plate of chips and goujons on the table with our pints. It is an abuse of power from NPHET in their push to attack our drinking culture. Absolutely nothing to do with Covid. Zip.

Do you seriously not see the logic behind why they were going to allow restaurants open before pubs?

have you seriously never heard the phrase "eating is cheating"?

Richard Hillman

listermint wrote: »

Wouldn't play ball what ?

We had to buy a substantial meal to protect us from the Coronavirus

beggars_bush

rubadub wrote: »

Do you seriously not see the logic behind why they were going to allow restaurants open before pubs?

have you seriously never heard the phrase "eating is cheating"?

You can regulate the booking and cleaning of tables much easier with food involved

A huge issue is that in our local town the majority of pubs don't serve food.