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Teenage Darndale Gang

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    #182
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Do you not think that's unfair on an unborn child? Do you really want to live in a society that punishes children because of their parents choices?

    well we live in a world currently where both child and society suffers.

    I don't understand how taking a child out of this drink and drug fuelled lazy parent environment is going to 'hurt' them, aside from the reforms needed in the care system .


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    #183
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    spurious wrote: »
    Instead of cutting SW, encourage targetted individuals to parent properly. Gardai will tell you these kids don't suddenly come on their radar at 14, they have seen them coming.

    Your child finishes school with an above 80% attendance per year? Here's an SW bonus.
    Child has not come to Garda attention in x number of months/years? Here's a bonus.
    Attended parent teacher meetings? Here's a bonus.
    Took your children to all their hospital appointments? Here's a bonus.

    I know normal people parent without such incentives, but some people really are clueless. Taking money away will only make them worse. A chance of extra and they might pay attention. The likelihood of someone ending up in prison having finished school/training is much lower than those missing over 20 days a year from the age of 8 or so.

    The costs would be easily covered by money saved in prison and 'programmes'.

    your bonus system only works if we half baseline welfare, the system is already too generous to them.


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    #184
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    spurious wrote: »
    Instead of cutting SW, encourage targetted individuals to parent properly. Gardai will tell you these kids don't suddenly come on their radar at 14, they have seen them coming.

    Your child finishes school with an above 80% attendance per year? Here's an SW bonus.
    Child has not come to Garda attention in x number of months/years? Here's a bonus.
    Attended parent teacher meetings? Here's a bonus.
    Took your children to all their hospital appointments? Here's a bonus.

    I know normal people parent without such incentives, but some people really are clueless. Taking money away will only make them worse. A chance of extra and they might pay attention. The likelihood of someone ending up in prison having finished school/training is much lower than those missing over 20 days a year from the age of 8 or so.

    The costs would be easily covered by money saved in prison and 'programmes'.

    It is a great idea... however it falls apart when you see it through thoroughly.

    For example, what about parents who have normal obedient kids? You cannot just have a bonus scheme available which discriminates in favour of the divine angels of Scrote City? The concept of social welfare is that everyone is getting an equal chance.

    Poor Joe Duffy would be inundated with bitching scrote mammies on complaining about how " dem udder kids " get " pweferwential tweetment"

    " iz a fuggin disgwace soe id iz "

    " iz ber eft "


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    #185
    CountNjord
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭CountNjord


    Hqrry113 wrote: »
    I know people say vigilantism is wrong and it is wrong as in paramilitary knee cappings and punishment beatings etc but if scumbags like this are coming to these areas and causing mayhem and attacking vulnerable people I see nothing wrong at all with a few of the locals from the area getting together and sussing out who these lads are and giving them a few smacks of a baseball bat letting them know not to come back to the area and also making them think twice before they carry on like this thinking they're untouchable.

    I'm not trying to act hard or anything but if this was going on in my area I'd be taking action I'm not going to have the constant worry about my family being unsafe walking the bloody dog in the park or just simply coming home from work.

    You have a point but the liberal youth workers need scumbags, dregs and non educated delenquents to justify their cushy jobs in youth centers, a lot of these leader's in youth centers are similar in a way to the people they're looking after.

    A lot of them are activists, social justice warriors and turn a blind eye to trouble maker's.

    I spent a weekend with a few in Body and Soul including a lecturer in Humanities and a head youth worker and most of them were off their head's on drugs.

    I was shocked to see these so called influential people who probably bought their gear off some poor misfortunate caught up in the street drug business.

    These liberal loon's were a sickening site.

    Ok if people want to get off their head's for a weekend that's their business, but youth workers and lecturer's in humanity etc hmmmmm


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    #186
    Hqrry113
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 273 ✭✭Hqrry113


    Valresnick wrote: »
    If you do that you’ll be guaranteed a very harsh sentence by our fair and equal justice system. I imagine if Raheny is under siege any longer something might give and you could see something similar. The Gardaí’s complete inaction on the issue will eventually spill over into something worse.

    To be honest I don't think there's really anything the guards can do, I don't see how they can really stop this I'm sure they're doing the best they can.

    Although many people give them a hard time I believe we have one of the best police forces in the world (the average guards not the ones high up) 99% of our guards are absolutely lovely people who do their best for their communities but this kind of thing is very difficult to prevent I'm sure they're doing their best.


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    #187
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    I used to worry about moral decline in our cities but the brain trust of armchair sociologists and ethnographers here definitely have it all solved.


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    #188
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,079 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    I used to worry about moral decline in our cities but the brain trust of armchair sociologists and ethnographers here definitely have it all solved.




    Sure if it wasn't for the bankers they'd all be phd sociologists maybe .....


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    #189
    strangel00p
    Registered Users Posts: 284 ✭✭strangel00p


    Hqrry113 wrote: »
    To be honest I don't think there's really anything the guards can do, I don't see how they can really stop this I'm sure they're doing the best they can.

    Although many people give them a hard time I believe we have one of the best police forces in the world (the average guards not the ones high up) 99% of our guards are absolutely lovely people who do their best for their communities but this kind of thing is very difficult to prevent I'm sure they're doing their best.


    lovely people doesn't mean they are doing a good job. Travel around and see how professional police forces operate in other countries. For example the difference between the gardai and the Polish police force is like night and day, To be honest I would have more respect for the security guys on the luas than I would for the gardai.


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    #190
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Sure if it wasn't for the bankers they'd all be phd sociologists maybe .....

    Again, never said that but sure dragging that dead bone around with ya, all youve got.


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    #191
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,829 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Hqrry113 wrote: »
    The bit that actually looks at why people are in those situations like being drug addicts, there's a reason people in poverty are far more likely to become drug addicts rather than "they're drug addicts because they choose to be".

    They choose a path that leads to addiction. While nobody says.... “hi I want to be a drug addict”... the first stop to becoming a drug addict, is to start using drugs. There is literally a sea of education and deterrents to stop people getting involved....not a lot more ‘society’ can do.... can’t give everyone a babysitter.

    People need to make choices...take responsibility for their life choices. Unfortunately in this day and age that’s a bit of an unfashionable idea in some corners.,,,Life is about choice... make the wrong ones... it’s on you...

    You choose drugs, get addicted, it’s indeed a choice... you can find yourself blaming everyone and everything from mental health, social problems etc... the fact is, you make a choice, it’s on you... unfashionable but so it goes.

    People need to take responsibility for choices and fûckups


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    #192
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    strangel00p wrote: »
    lovely people doesn't mean they are doing a good job. Travel around and see how professional police forces operate in other countries. For example the difference between the gardai and the Polish police force is like night and day, To be honest I would have more respect for the security guys on the luas than I would for the gardai.




    Im not saying this just to be critical, while a lot of the male Gardai seem like they are in reasonable shape, I am astonished at some of the female gardai, either too small to take anyone on or a lot of them do not look like they could run very far or climb a wall, Id have thought there is some annual fitness test, and an expectation to maintain fitness levels. Id think a standard test that would stay equally difficult until 32/33yo, maybe different for 34-38 yo,
    but some of the female gardai I have seen appeared to be in their 20's, I dont believe for a second they could run 1km.


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    #193
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Strumms wrote: »
    They choose a path that leads to addiction. While nobody says.... “hi I want to be a drug addict”... the first stop to becoming a drug addict, is to start using drugs. There is literally a sea of education and deterrents to stop people getting involved....not a lot more ‘society’ can do.... can’t give everyone a babysitter.

    People need to make choices...take responsibility for their life choices. Unfortunately in this day and age that’s a bit of an unfashionable idea in some corners.,,,Life is about choice... make the wrong ones... it’s on you...

    You choose drugs, get addicted, it’s indeed a choice... you can find yourself blaming everyone and everything from mental health, social problems etc... the fact is, you make a choice, it’s on you... unfashionable but so it goes.

    People need to take responsibility for choices and fûckups

    the devil makes work for idle thumbs , a 20-21 year old hardly becomes an alcoholic by going to work every single day, being in bed at a reasonable time etc.. but 14 hours a day of couch and cans....


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    #194
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    You can thank your local free legal aid solicitor as well for these thugs.
    Free legal aid solicitors will tell all sorts of yarns to ensure these scumbags get off scott free. Free legal aid solicitors dont care about the impact of their communities.


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    #195
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    You can thank your local free legal aid solicitor as well for these thugs.
    Free legal aid solicitors will tell all sorts of yarns to ensure these scumbags get off scott free. Free legal aid solicitors dont care about the impact of their communities.


    I think thats incorrect, they are availing of a system that allows people access to the Judicial system that definitely need it but couldnt afford it, I would like it so that its more extensive so that anyone can access it, what I want is this accessible system to lock these people away if they are guilty, the fault lies with the Judicial system for taking too soft a line, if having access to legal representation legitimises the process of locking guilty people up and ensuring innocent people get a fair hearing and aren't locked up, then I think its reasonable, and makes sense.

    The problem seems to be the the light touch on actually sentencing criminals and that there doesnt seem to be any standardised system to apply durations, seems to be arbitrary and at the individual discretion of a Judge.
    The outcome should be the same for the same circumstances, offset or reduced for the same circumstances or lengthened for the same circumstances, across the board.


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    #196
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,829 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Free legal aid... ok. A noble premise, but after three arrests and court appearances... your fourth time to stand up in court... you should be on your own coin...

    Can’t afford it ? Don’t commit crimes...


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    #197
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,790 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Strumms wrote: »
    They choose a path that leads to addiction. While nobody says.... “hi I want to be a drug addict”... the first stop to becoming a drug addict, is to start using drugs. There is literally a sea of education and deterrents to stop people getting involved....not a lot more ‘society’ can do.... can’t give everyone a babysitter.

    People need to make choices...take responsibility for their life choices. Unfortunately in this day and age that’s a bit of an unfashionable idea in some corners.,,,Life is about choice... make the wrong ones... it’s on you...

    You choose drugs, get addicted, it’s indeed a choice... you can find yourself blaming everyone and everything from mental health, social problems etc... the fact is, you make a choice, it’s on you... unfashionable but so it goes.

    People need to take responsibility for choices and fûckups

    I think this is such a privileged view though. They are usually from horrible backgrounds and have suffered all kinds of abuse and heroin and alcohol or whatever gives them relief and escape. They didn't choose to be born into a situation where they are more likely to do these things because of the trauma they've suffered.


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    #198
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    1874 wrote: »
    they are availing of a system that allows people access to the Judicial system that definitely need it but couldn't afford it,

    .

    People who commit crimes are not availing of a service!
    They are in court because they broke the law. Of course they are entitled to defend themselves, but hardly entitled to the assistance of legal people who make them out to be victims.

    The only personal testimony or testimonials that ought to be allowed are victim impacts and bald facts about the defendant. Not some ridiculous charade that paints all sorts of scum as misguided saints.


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    #199
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,829 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I think this is such a privileged view though. They are usually from horrible backgrounds and have suffered all kinds of abuse and heroin and alcohol or whatever gives them relief and escape. They didn't choose to be born into a situation where they are more likely to do these things because of the trauma they've suffered.

    Privileged view ?

    Hardly.... having expecetations of people that they regardless of background do not engage in criminal behaviors or behaviours that hurt others and society isnt a privliged view... its a normal view...

    You are simply searching for excuses to enable this kind of behaviour and for those who choose these actions to get away with them... at a great cost to society and their victims.


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    #200
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    I think some politicians, judges and decision making civil servants should have to live somewhere like Darndale for a month

    It might open their eyes


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    #201
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Do you not think that's unfair on an unborn child? Do you really want to live in a society that punishes children because of their parents choices?

    children always suffer due to the behaviour of parents

    " sins of the father "


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    #202
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    Feral parents having feral kids and the cycle goes on and on ....


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    #203
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,829 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Valresnick wrote: »
    We should not ignore the online influence over all our children at the moment. Pop on to Netflix, crime, drugs, gangs everywhere add into the mix violent computer games, toxic alpha male role models on social media, gore and violence all over the internet, gangsta rap etc. There is a lot more at play here than just poverty. There are also gangs from middle class areas that would take your head off if you said anything to them. We’ve always had gangs coming into Raheny and St Anne’s Park but none displaying the violence and destruction of these new types. Poverty and parenting are still huge factors but the change in the levels of violence I believe is heavily influenced by the factors above. We have to start paying attention to the content consumed by our youth. When I was young I couldn’t even get an over 18s video from xtra vision. Nowadays the Wild West of the internet provides all types of violence to whoever wants to see it from all ages. Unless we regulate these platforms and soon, things are going to get much worse.


    Multiple studies have discounted the role of video games with a theme of violence contributing to violent behavior in people and or society.

    https://www.theguardian.com/games/2020/jul/22/playing-video-games-doesnt-lead-to-violent-behaviour-study-shows

    There has been violence on TV, in our cinemas since way back when too.

    The only difference is... back then, if say I committed a violent act, I’d get the blame... now we blame Hollywood or Rockstar Games...the fact I left somebody without consciousness and their wallet...isn’t my fault anymore... blame video games and cinema !


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    #204
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    kildare lad wrote: »
    Feral parents having feral kids and the cycle goes on and on ....

    we can talk about it till we're blue in the face, talk about building playgrounds or putting a lidl near some flats or extending the luas.

    At the end of the day we need to do one thing and we'll have this problem sorted in 40 years.

    Stop people on welfare having kids. We obviously can't sterilise them for I'm sure numerous legal reasons and a bad PR image , but we should be doing everything to actively discourage them.


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    #205
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,829 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Valresnick wrote: »
    Not blaming just saying it has an influence alongside bad parenting and poverty. Tell me this, do you think young kids accessing violence and seeing it daily at their fingertips has no influence on how much violence they can carry out on another person ? I don’t remember gangs when I was a kid in the 80s / 90s knifing people over bicycles, beating innocent people with metal poles to within an inch of their life, or firebombing houses of citizens who get in their way. Maybe I lived a sheltered life and this has always been the way ?

    Ok so you might have me on the computer games point but perhaps because that’s not reality it might have a lesser influence then say a video of a cartel beheading.

    I agree, life seems more violent now.

    Why ? Fück knows... my ‘guess’ is because the law, in its ability to protect people , convict criminals, lock criminals away for a suitable time in order to protect society and issue a deterrent to others... simply isn’t there...

    My own view is we need more prison spaces so the law is more of a deterrent firstly... secondly when people are sentenced that an appropriate sentence gets applied...

    I’m for under these conditions slashing the number of suspended sentences... for violent or aggravated type crimes, remove the ability of judges to suspend sentences altogether. Judges seem to be a hearty part of the problem.

    I have a row with somebody outside a nightclub over whatever, I loose the rag, punch them...ok, I’m on camera, plead guilty, convicted....10 days in prison...

    You get a taste, don’t want to go back for 60 days ? Behave.

    A big cost as regards addition of prison spaces, but it's a good investment if it keeps people safe, protected, businesses too.

    We want to remain of the ability (post covid obviously) to attract visitors, tourists and work/businesses/jobs.... the direction this country was going in... I’d be doubting us a bit...


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    #206
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The whole "Forgotten poor" thing gets on my tits bigly.

    My parents got a mortgage not long before I was born. Then they moved. Then mam gave up work to raise me (and the next 2). Then dad got injured in work. He was on the sick for a while. He got the same weekly payment as a bunch of the parents of the other kids in my primary school. My parents however didn't get social housing or rent supplement, they had to pay a mortgage out of that money. I was never hungry as a kid I was never cold. My mother taught me to read and write and do maths before I started primary school and same with my sisters. They taught me right and wrong. They made sure I stayed in school. From an early age I wasn't dazzled by someone's designer runners, I knew they weren't people to aspire to be.

    Finally dad got some money from his injury. They renovated the house and paid off the mortgage. A few years later he started his own business. Things went well for a while and then he was ill. They'd remortgaged the house to get the business going. So once again they were in receipt of the same money as someone who never worked a day in their lives but they had to service a mortgage rather than pay 12 quid a week for a house.

    Despite for large parts of my childhood (and afterwards) being worse off than many of the people I went to school with I managed to finish school, get more than 1 Level 8 (and on my way to a Level 9) and my sister graduated with results in a course that makes everyone say "Wow".

    I know from experience and growing up around a ****hole area that more money isn't going to make these situations better. We were worse off than most (even the ones who complained loudest) and yet I've never had a run-in with the Gardai and have gotten well-educated. And my parents came from ridiculously poor backgrounds, both of them. At times my dad's childhood sounds more like serfs in the 1400s. :pac: But at the end of the day they both had a similar attitude; sit down, shut up, behave, listen, ask questions, don't get in trouble, be good. Simple stuff.
    I see cousins on Facebook who haven't worked a day in their lives spending hundreds on 1 year old's birthday parties and I point out to my mother that when they complain, look what they can spend money. It's not a lack of money that's their problem.


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    #207
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,057 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Hqrry113 wrote: »
    The bit that actually looks at why people are in those situations like being drug addicts, there's a reason people in poverty are far more likely to become drug addicts rather than "they're drug addicts because they choose to be".

    These teen-agers aren't all drug addicts and even if they were, how does a 12 year old become a drug addict? Which happens first, their addiction or them behaving like thugs?
    FYI I'm pretty sure it's the latter.


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    #208
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,508 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    In about 4 years, maybe less, we're very likely going to have a government whose policy is to give even more money to these people.

    At the same time, they'll be giving less power to Gardaí and courts to do anything about it.

    Something to think about.


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    #209
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I see cousins on Facebook who haven't worked a day in their lives spending hundreds on 1 year old's birthday parties and I point out to my mother that when they complain, look what they can spend money. It's not a lack of money that's their problem.

    I'm the same- my OH and myself both make decent money now, but we both came from pretty modest backgrounds. We budget carefully (saving for a wedding so that we won't need a loan), so we can afford a decent Xmas etc. Nothing over the top, just nice. Getting my hair done is a luxury and a treat.

    Then I see a relative who has never had a job and left school after the JC (in the last 5 years, which is even more rare), has 2 kids by 2 dads, spending GOD knows how much on christenings, bdays, easter and I'm awaiting with baited breath to see how much her wee angles get spoiled on Xmas day.

    It's stomach churning.


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    #210
    Glurrl
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭Glurrl


    These scrotes and thier parent need a good kick in the balls/gee. The neighbourhood watch should mobilise themselves


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    #211
    pgj2015
    Registered Users Posts: 8,950 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    Lollipops23 wrote: »
    I'm the same- my OH and myself both make decent money now, but we both came from pretty modest backgrounds. We budget carefully (saving for a wedding so that we won't need a loan), so we can afford a decent Xmas etc. Nothing over the top, just nice. Getting my hair done is a luxury and a treat.

    Then I see a relative who has never had a job and left school after the JC (in the last 5 years, which is even more rare), has 2 kids by 2 dads, spending GOD knows how much on christenings, bdays, easter and I'm awaiting with baited breath to see how much her wee angles get spoiled on Xmas day.

    It's stomach churning.




    They don't have anything else to be at, that is why they spend a lot of time and money on pointless things like baby showers and gender reveling parties, first holy communion, even though they haven't been in a church in years.


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