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Teenage Darndale Gang
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I don't care about their supposed sob stories / upbringing if they try to stab me / rob me. Lots of us grew up in bad areas but don't behave like this.
The not so laughable fact here is that Mammy / Daddy could fall behind in her / his (nominal / farcical) rent due to addiction issues and they become homeless (while the thieving teenage creamcracker of a son is out robbin' his neighbours and skipping school)....and then the hands do be wringin' and de Joe Duffy's / Irish Times do be called......and dey do be housed again...only the son now has a babby and also need anudder house for de babby...and the perpetual cycle continues and de babby does be robbin' granny's in Baldoyle in 12 years time as the son clocks up his 140th offence, weeps in court about his upbringing and robs a car / off licence on the way home.......while Leo et al tell us there is a homeless crisis for people like this...
Tough minimum sentences. Can't be any worse than the over lenient system there is in place.0 -
There is no silver bullet here..
Some people are just nasty bastids....
Simple as: To deal with these: Lock them away from people..........for a long time.......
Trying to cure the ills of people and violence can never ever be achieved, but locking them up and removing them from society, at least will protect victims of these scum....
The biggest problem is there will always be a cohort of people advocating for the scumbag....
And I am not talking about shop lifting or stealing cars, which are crimes, and deserve to be punished...I am talking about scum who physically hurt, main and kill people...intentionally without any real reason.....as in self defence..
These scum need simple removing! Proper removing....not these disgustingly lenient sentences we all know exist.
Example: The teens who viciously beat up that man in the park, that could have ended his life....those that took part...20 years...
See how many others would be so eager and keen to attack and hurt people if they were told a minimum 20 years if caught and convicted...0 -
Ultimately though, you have to allow and force people to take responsibility. The moment they get up in the morning.
I have never committed a crime, I don’t envision me wanting to. Bad times, good times... I just wanted to work, enjoy the fruits of said work, car, holidays house etc...and didn’t have the will or want to do drugs, fûck up my life or anybody else’s, steal, assault or whatever..
Issues that cause crime ? PEOPLE who commit crime are the issue... choices they make...
You choose to become a drug addict
You choose to assault somebody
You choose to steal to feed the habit you have chosen.
Society requires protecting from these people.
Jail is the only manner of doing so...
You have an extremely simplistic view of crime and addiction. I guess you have no personal experience of it. Lucky for you.0 -
Obviously some people have to be locked up because they are dangerous. I’m not against that or prisons in general. But it can’t be the only solution because that alone doesn’t work, at the moment that’s all we’re doing and the problem is clearly getting worse not better. At least in Dublin anyway.0
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You have an extremely simplistic view of crime and addiction. I guess you have no personal experience of it. Lucky for you.
So, what is your view?
That most of it is not the person, but the surroundings and environment?
Serious crimes against people like violent assault....Sorry, fook all the excuses,....you are a scumbag and you need to be removed from society pronto..
I understand that there are good hearted and decent-gentle people who commit crimes like stealing etc, and would never intentionally want to physically hurt someone...I don't give them a pass, but to me, they are not near as bad as the violent people who assault and maim....0 -
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Can't they implement that text alert system that's already there?Valresnick wrote: »Good idea about the text system considering the Gardaí seem to be powerless to stop anything.
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/text_alert_scheme0 -
suicide_circus wrote: »Nothing wrong with a limited and targeted welfare state, indeed it's essential.
However, the state does not make a good daddy. It provides food and shelter but nothing else. No sense of dignity or your place in the world.
But that's the way the world is going. People who talk about hard graft, personal responsibilities and civil liberties are looked upon as lunatics.
You can literally go from cradle to grave on the dole in Ireland without having done a day's work in your life.
Not only is it morally wrong on the rest of the public but it's a destructive policy against the people they claim to be trying to help. You may get your 200 a week disability or JSA and your council house but imagine the sense of worthlessness that must come eventually. No prospects, stuck in welfare trap.
It's actually cruel in a way.
We have it arseways here. In other countries dole is strictly time limited and you have to work just to get it for 12 months or whatever.
Then you lose it and you have to work again.0 -
Does every thread on this site turn into a social welfare bashing event?0
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RebelButtMunch wrote: »The garda are onto a no-win situation here.
Stop the kids throwing rocks, they should be on checkpoints
Stop the cars travelling, they should be stopping the kids throwing rocks.
The garda are powerless here, it really needs some social pressure to stop it. And it if takes busses not going there to the responsible adults off their feet and to do something about it, then that's what it takes.
This needs to be resolved by people putting pressure on politicians to demand action, The Gardai themselves are reluctant/refuse to even take reports, at the least they should be collecting the reports of crime, even if they dont have the resources to deal with it, they can deal with whats possible, and Garda Management should be going to the Minister for Justice and say, this is the problem, we need x y and z to deal with it.
I suspect upper Garda management is effectively in Bed with the Govt of the day, are happy to deflate reports and dont actually care about dealing with certain problems and that gets pushed down the line, where Gardai arent resourced to deal with problems and then dont want to, and so on.The thing about that is if you did knock one of them out you could accidentally cause them to die or suffer a life changing injury.
At which point the Gardai would suddenly become very competent and able to find you and arrest you and the courts would suddenly be able to hand out an actually meaningful criminal conviction and sentence.
I assume that for most people they just roll the dice and hope that they aren't too badly damaged or traumatised and will get over it and back to normal.
Very likely, given the attitude of the Gardai I have experienced, reported threats to me by someone, they brushed it off, even told they get threatened all the time, refused to take a complaint, said person then made a false complaint of racism against me, a number of Gardai turned up at my door.Kermit.de.frog wrote: »This all comes down to lack of parenting at the end of the day
I'd support measures to "encourage" parenting.
Top of the list should be tieing weekly welfare payments to the behaviour of the children so holding the adults responsible for their children.
When it comes to child sanctions by the courts/guards it should be a 3 strike graduated rule for the parent.
This is just common sense. We should have these measures already.
Until these things are brought in people will continue living in fear in these areas.
While parenting is key, that would be difficult to manage, there needs to be engagement of parents (or anyone) on longterm benefits to ensure some message is being given to them, carrot and stick, ie the benefits and the penalties, not threats, just educational/learning, day to day stuff, parenting, and sex education ensuring they are doing what is essential to raise children, then a marked and out loud effort that single parents aren't a sacred cow and they can live with their existing family, child and all.Deleted User wrote: »Switzerland has more than its share of sociopathic Bankers but they've got public order. There is no relationship whatsoever between white collar crime and thuggery on the streets except in the mind of that type of person who wish to lay blame for the ills of the world at the feet of the banking system.
The banking system does have a lot to answer for, and so do our Politicians who have foisted a system onto working people, although it affects them, those problems arent really experienced by lifer welfare claimants who have no interest in changing though. It seems that the actual worker class foots the bill and suffers the problems. Why i cannot undertsand welfare claimants being questioned on where their funds come from for new cars, well from welfare, because their costs are so low and benefits so high.Welfare payments?
These lads are making small fortunes from dealing, you think their family care about losing their mickey money?
They'll make a lot of nosie about it, and so will the left leaning loudmouths.What has been done successfully in other countries?
Good, if not best question of this thread, China I think issues a lead injection (not for free), but that will never take off here, I assume you mean somewhere more enlightened, like Scandinavia.Eric Cartman wrote: »100% , some of the loveliest, hardest working, most honest people Ive ever met have been from working class backgrounds and council estates. Its a cop out to suggest that the reason for the scumbag behaviour is the financial or geographic circumstances in which the person grew up.
its a false causality, when in reality having a father present or good male role models in the community is much more likely what influences the outcome.
Having good role models helps, but overall Id say you are wrong, Id say there are plenty of families where there is only one parent and they dont go this route, really it comes down to how good or bad the remaining parent is, Id say, by all means support that parent, if they are doing a good job of it, kids in school/fed etc.
That goes hand in hand with putting the scum away fro a long time, they wont be heroes in their community when they are relegated to obscurity and come out as weathered old people, who have spent their life in jail, they wont have made contacts and anything they learn will be of no use (to most of them).Yeah and who borrowed the 65 billion to buy fancy cars and property abroad ? Get real , everyone got on the train
We all partied, indeed, right. Bollix, the people at the helm steered us into the rocks, all the same, lots of people arent going around in gangs beating innocent people with a pipe, so personal responsibility is the main thing.thegetawaycar wrote: »I used to believe the issue was needing to hit parents in their pocket, the problem I see with that in a lot of these cases the parents are getting tax payers money and know they will just claim hardship and get more. Hit them with withdrawal of social housing and maybe they'd cop on but then you have the issue of where do you put them?
Relying on the parents is fine if they are decent parents but a lot (not all) of them are not. Numerous times I've seen parents barrel in garda stations screaming to let their children out immediately even though they well know their little scumbag has mugged someone/stolen items.
The judiciary is the answer, nobody with 100+ convictions should be walking the streets. Under 18s should be put into community programmes and forced to actually contribute as part of their sanctions. What seems to happen is they get a curfew, which is unenforceable and they are back doing the same **** 2 hours later.
Take away concurrent sentencing after 20+ convictions, no suspended sentences or partially suspended after 20 convictions. I'd much rather my taxes went into correctional facilities for the scum then never ending handouts and keep social housing for those who don't cause a menace to the society paying for them.
It should not be a set number of convictions, if someone commits a specific crime, be it drug related, violence, then society and the victims should know the perpetrator is going away after the first instance, minimum time with rehab/reeducation, no TVs no games consoles, maybe not direct to prison, but forced education, cant or wont do it, then some kind of manual labour, wont do that, then locked in a cell until they do participate.Because three strikes and hard convictions is working so well in the USA isn't it..... Smh
You suggest throwing people into prison for stealing milk and a mobile phone if we actually did that they'd be a hell of a lot worse by the time they came out of prison, do actually hear yourself?
Better that than they get out and keep committing crimes, no one should have more than 5 prior convictions or attendances at court for drug related offences, thats habitual, sentences should run concurrent if you are back a second time for a serious or violent crime.
The only people who should be in prison by that set up would be repeat offenders, ie habitual criminals, opportunity to reform/reeeducate should always be on the table, but if its not taken, then full duration of sentences should be given.Pawwed Rig wrote: »You hear alot about guys when they get murdered.
I think the judiciary is directly responsible for many of the murders around the country by way of negligent sentencing.
Taking this case, for example
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/latest-dublin-murder-believed-linked-to-ballymun-feud-1.3374811
122 conviction at the age of 27. If even 1 in 10 of those convictions got him some jail time he would not have been around to get shot.
At that level of recidivism surely he should be getting maximum sentences for every offence he commits.
There are also the number of times he didn't get caught and the ones that there was not sufficient evidence for.
I don't have the solution but it is clear that the current system is not working. I do think that spreading social tenants throughout society rather than large estates which turn into ghettos is a good idea although it is hard to swallow for their neighbours who have to get up early in the morning to work their arses off to pay a mortgage
Great, best thing that happened, for all of the rest of society, Judiciary has a lot to answer for, and so does the State for not reforming it.
Violent or dangerous people, or those who do harm to society by being involved in drugs should be locked away from society.122 convictions at 27... and the bloke had his liberty... wtf is that about.
As an adult, since he was 18... that averages about 14 convictions a year. Yet society allowed this individual to be free to kill. Sorry not society, the judiciary.
I wonder how many were written off before he was 18?0 -
Sweet.Science wrote: »Still causing mayhem
https://www.thejournal.ie/gang-teens-baldoyle-park-5283639-Nov2020/
It's now getting to the stage where its more dangerous to raise your kids in surrounding areas than the place itself
That's horrific but are you sure its the same Darndale gang? Seems like a pointless place to go, and a long journey for teenagers.
Same as St Annes PArk, but that has more "amenities". But a quick google of St Annes and gangs shows theres been plenty going on there this year also.0 -
someone should pretend to be alone and walk past these scumbags. Then when they attack you, have 20 lads with bats waiting around the corner rush in and leather the fcukers. That might slow their roll a bit. remember a few years ago some teenage gang were running rampant in Tyrrelstown, robbing old people and beating them up etc, the hells angles fire bombed the gang leaders house and beat the $hit out of a few of the gang, maybe the bikers are needed here as well.0
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Kermit.de.frog wrote: »You can literally go from cradle to grave on the dole in Ireland without having done a day's work in your life.
Not only is it morally wrong on the rest of the public but it's a destructive policy against the people they claim to be trying to help. You may get your 200 a week disability or JSA and your council house but imagine the sense of worthlessness that must come eventually. No prospects, stuck in welfare trap.
It's actually cruel in a way.
We have it arseways here. In other countries dole is strictly time limited and you have to work just to get it for 12 months or whatever.
Then you lose it and you have to work again.
So what's the alternative? Stop giving them dole and shelter and let them live on the streets or what? That's what I never understand with these discussions. "Cut their parents dole!" - first of all their parents may not be on the dole, and wouldn't giving them less just make them even worse members of society? Isn't that unfair on the innocent siblings they may have?
How much do you keep cutting it, until they have to steal food?
Really with the amount of these types we have here, the only way to deal with it is better social services. A lot of these people aren't fit to hold down jobs never mind rear kids, and would need constant monitoring and same goes for the children. Hands on care and constant therapy, to break this cycle of intergenerational unhappiness and worthlessness. We don't have these services available and we wont in my lifetime, so it's not really going to get any better.
An element of horrible scumbags is just something that goes part in parcel with Dublin really.0 -
Thelonious Monk wrote: »So what's the alternative? Stop giving them dole and shelter and let them live on the streets or what? That's what I never understand with these discussions. "Cut their parents dole!" - first of all their parents may not be on the dole, and wouldn't giving them less just make them even worse members of society? Isn't that unfair on the innocent siblings they may have?
How much do you keep cutting it, until they have to steal food?
Really with the amount of these types we have here, the only way to deal with it is better social services. A lot of these people aren't fit to hold down jobs never mind rear kids, and would need constant monitoring and same goes for the children. Hands on care and constant therapy, to break this cycle of intergenerational unhappiness and worthlessness. We don't have these services available and we wont in my lifetime, so it's not really going to get any better.
An element of horrible scumbags is just something that goes part in parcel with Dublin really.
So, you end your post with, shure throw our hands up in the air, my previous post suggests what you are saying about social supports but without giving up on crime, supports and benefits AND penalties, take the bad apples out and put them somewhere, if they repeat a crime, non concurrent sentencing and added to that anything they had suspended ever. Let them reform in prison (it should be available).
If they are working, fine the parents, but maybe in some cases its one delinquent kid is out of control, so if need be, locked away too and forced into education, lotsof these scum are not adults, so if necessary, they might get the message if they dont see outside of a prison for a longtime.0 -
Well the lock everyone up approach doesn't work in the USA, the Scandinavian model does seem to work though.0
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Keep cutting it until they get a job or until they contribute to society in a meaningful manner. We should not be giving them free money, free housing, healthcare etc. without a corresponding effort from them to contribute positively.Thelonious Monk wrote: »So what's the alternative? Stop giving them dole and shelter and let them live on the streets or what?
How much do you keep cutting it, until they have to steal food?
And that is mostly the problem. It is deemed acceptable by too many people in this country, and that should not be the case in a civilised society. If you are acting the scumbag (abusive, threatening, involved in criminality etc), you should be in jail. Plain and simple.Thelonious Monk wrote: »An element of horrible scumbags is just something that goes part in parcel with Dublin really.0 -
I feel I need to add that there are many decent hard working parents who do their absolute best to raise their kids right and keep them out of trouble but the kids end up getting in with a bad crowd (mainly due to the area they live) and that results in them getting into a lot of trouble despite the parents going through hell to give them the best life they possibly can.
I also feel like I need to add that many of these teens have drug addicted single parents, have horrible lives and are extremely depressed from a very young age, don't get me wrong I see these people causing this trouble as absolute scum but if I we want to actually try and solve these issues we need to look at the root causes of these problems there's no point in saying just lock them up and throw away the key because that is going to get us nowhere.0 -
This gang are terrorising st Anne’s park the last few months, attacking teenagers stealing their bikes, attacking people, smashing mirrors of cars. They go around in gangs of up to 13/14 of them. Mate is a Garda and said they can’t do a thing to them and takes up so much resources and time when little can be done.
Why did your mate even bother signing up the lazy ****e.
I do be one the cycle track between Drumcondra and St Anne's most days. You can spot these lads a mile off. Canada Goose jackets roaming around in packs on their bikes.
Little **** in all liklihood the product of a welfare lifestyle or some other nefarious upbringing. Ireland is on its feet now and Covid asde, the Govt seriously need to revisit our social structures. By birthright these kids have all the opportunities at hand to become good contributing members of society.0 -
Thelonious Monk wrote: »Well the lock everyone up approach doesn't work in the USA, the Scandinavian model does seem to work though.
Lol.. the funny part is you are dead serious. Please us all more about the great success story in Scandinavia, or is it Somalia? Hard to tell these days.0 -
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tylercheribini wrote: »Yup, white collar criminals have caused more damage to society than any supposed "dole spongers. "
Is that in any way relevant to a group of teenagers beating people at random with metal pipes?0 -
tylercheribini wrote: »Incarnate them all sure, its worked an absolute charm in the U.S
or have a 2 fold policy.
make an announcement on Monday 'any children born more than 9 months after today will not qualify for child benefit, it is to be reformed into a tax credit for working families only. Furthermore having any more children while on the housing list will not have you bumped up any places or have your needs re-assessed, households who have never filed a prsi contribution will also now have Tulsa involved , be given free contraception and any further children will be immediately taken into care'
then follow it up with a robust apprenticeship program, heavy penalties including custodial sentences for parents who allow children to miss school or become involved in multiple cases of antisocial behaviour.
start a program in disadvantaged schools where you explain the benefits of work and jobs, have direct input internships and work shadowing, have local business owners and positive role models give talks to schools about an honest days work.
during sex education explain how important it is for a father to be in a Childs life, how a baby is a big responsibility and not just an ATM or fashion accessory.
and a 15 year minimum mandatory for any adult who allows a teen or child even be in the vicinity of dealable quantities of drugs or sells drugs to a child or teen.0 -
I know people say vigilantism is wrong and it is wrong as in paramilitary knee cappings and punishment beatings etc but if scumbags like this are coming to these areas and causing mayhem and attacking vulnerable people I see nothing wrong at all with a few of the locals from the area getting together and sussing out who these lads are and giving them a few smacks of a baseball bat letting them know not to come back to the area and also making them think twice before they carry on like this thinking they're untouchable.
I'm not trying to act hard or anything but if this was going on in my area I'd be taking action I'm not going to have the constant worry about my family being unsafe walking the bloody dog in the park or just simply coming home from work.0 -
Is that in any way relevant to a group of teenagers beating people at random with metal pipes?
Blue in the face explaining this already in this thread, never said the economic collapse caused this youth violence, merely pointing out people here seriously missing the forest for the woods.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 25624
Instead of cutting SW, encourage targetted individuals to parent properly. Gardai will tell you these kids don't suddenly come on their radar at 14, they have seen them coming.
Your child finishes school with an above 80% attendance per year? Here's an SW bonus.
Child has not come to Garda attention in x number of months/years? Here's a bonus.
Attended parent teacher meetings? Here's a bonus.
Took your children to all their hospital appointments? Here's a bonus.
I know normal people parent without such incentives, but some people really are clueless. Taking money away will only make them worse. A chance of extra and they might pay attention. The likelihood of someone ending up in prison having finished school/training is much lower than those missing over 20 days a year from the age of 8 or so.
The costs would be easily covered by money saved in prison and 'programmes'.0 -
Eric Cartman wrote: »or have a 2 fold policy.
make an announcement on Monday 'any children born more than 9 months after today will not qualify for child benefit, it is to be reformed into a tax credit for working families only. Furthermore having any more children while on the housing list will not have you bumped up any places or have your needs re-assessed, households who have never filed a prsi contribution will also now have Tulsa involved , be given free contraception and any further children will be immediately taken into care'
then follow it up with a robust apprenticeship program, heavy penalties including custodial sentences for parents who allow children to miss school or become involved in multiple cases of antisocial behaviour.
start a program in disadvantaged schools where you explain the benefits of work and jobs, have direct input internships and work shadowing, have local business owners and positive role models give talks to schools about an honest days work.
during sex education explain how important it is for a father to be in a Childs life, how a baby is a big responsibility and not just an ATM or fashion accessory.
and a 15 year minimum mandatory for any adult who allows a teen or child even be in the vicinity of dealable quantities of drugs or sells drugs to a child or teen.
So your plan to fix this problem is to punish the children who already have it bad enough as it is growing up?
I'm sorry but if there are parents addicted to drugs or are simply bums who don't want to work that is not the fault of the children.0 -
tylercheribini wrote: »Blue in the face explaining this already in this thread, never said the economic collapse caused this youth violence, merely pointing out people here seriously missing the forest for the woods.
So no then.0 -
Eric Cartman wrote: »make an announcement on Monday 'any children born more than 9 months after today will not qualify for child benefit, it is to be reformed into a tax credit for
working families only.
Do you not think that's unfair on an unborn child? Do you really want to live in a society that punishes children because of their parents choices?0 -
Paddygreen wrote: »Lol.. the funny part is you are dead serious. Please us all more about the great success story in Scandinavia, or is it Somalia? Hard to tell these days.
You should know with the lefty greenie hug a hoody persona you falsely portray on this site, for reasons unknown.0 -
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A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit.0
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