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Labour want to bring back auto-birthright citizenship

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    #542
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    statesaver wrote: »
    Sought but were they granted ?
    No, they were not granted. But at the same time when that case came up, a Dublin Housing agency complained about the enormous pressure that the asylum seeker family reunification programme was causing them. She used an example of one asylum seeker getting approval of 9 of his family members to join him in Dublin. She said that she was then tasked in finding 9 homes for all of these new arrivals just specific to one person.

    I am certain that the asylum/refugee family reunification scheme in Ireland has made Irish people homeless due to the obvious lack of housing in the country and the current waiting lists for social housing.


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    #543
    V8 Interceptor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭V8 Interceptor


    Kivaro wrote: »
    Sinn Fein was the party who really pushed for the reunification policy to be enacted, which it was. They kept telling us (i.e. RTE) that "we need these people".

    Possibly the strangest "nationalist" party in the western hemisphere. Up there with the white supremacist group in the US with a black Latino leader.


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    #544
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Kivaro wrote: »
    I believe that the record number sought by one African asylum seeker for reunification was .................... 74. Yes, he wanted 74 other people to be allowed entry into Ireland based on his successful asylum claim.
    Sinn Fein was the party who really pushed for the reunification policy to be enacted, which it was. They kept telling us (i.e. RTE) that "we need these people".

    SF were formally opposed to changing the criteria in 2004, but as it coincided with the local and European elections they did nothing publicly to support the campaign.

    Now, the last election has convinced them that their electorate - which according to several studies is the most sceptical regarding immigration - all agree with them. The level heads of 2004 have been replaced by Pollyanna ideolgues.


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    #545
    Arthur Daley
    Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    This was in January 2020, but there was an election coming up. Nonetheless this is what SF dangled before the electorate, and let's recall they got a considerable bounce just 8 months after their really poor performance in the 2019 European and local elections

    When Sinn Féin released their 2020 election manifesto, many were surprised to find that controlling immigration featured as a part of their platform. In a twist that will shock anybody who has actually been listening to them for the last few years, they wrote: “Sinn Féin does not want open borders. We believe that all States must manage migration”.

    Granted, it is buried deep in the document on page 70, almost like they hoped nobody, especially the media, would notice it. But it is in there.

    https://gript.ie/no-sinn-fein-will-not-be-tough-on-immigration/


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    #546
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Arthur Daley wrote: »
    This was in January 2020, but there was an election coming up. Nonetheless this is what SF dangled before the electorate, and let's recall they got a considerable bounce just 8 months after their really poor performance in the 2019 European and local elections




    https://gript.ie/no-sinn-fein-will-not-be-tough-on-immigration/


    Some day they will trip themselves up. Despite their phony republicanism, the fact that they are a pretty much right of centre economically party in 6 cos which does all the stuff they whinge about down here, is lost on most of their voters.

    Their faux nationalism also deludes many into believing that they are genuinely critical of open door immigration, but the critical mass now among elected reps and activists is all for it. Hopefully this will not be lost on those who were deluded into giving them such a big the last time.


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    #547
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    SF were formally opposed to changing the criteria in 2004, but as it coincided with the local and European elections they did nothing publicly to support the campaign.

    Now, the last election has convinced them that their electorate - which according to several studies is the most sceptical regarding immigration - all agree with them. The level heads of 2004 have been replaced by Pollyanna ideolgues.

    Yes , One Eoin o Broin wasnt around back in 2004


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    #548
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Yes , One Eoin o Broin wasnt around back in 2004

    The people who run SF couldn't give a f@rt about multi culturalism and all the leftie nonsense. It is a path to power and money.

    They shift emphasis according to what they think suits the mood of the elctorate. They got it disastrously wrong with that clown Ní Riada running for the Áras and in the local and Europeans.

    Then the other clowns gifted them top spot in the generals by making them the main issue! Not even the most optimistic Shinner saw that coming hence their throwing away of 10 - 15 extra seats. Thankfully.

    A lot of the new intake are either far left rejects or village idiots so hopefully that will be the end of most of them. It is really like a slow bicycle race, however, as FG have safely cornered the traditional centre right market with a liberal tinge; while FF are in freefall so Shinners have a penalty kick on the "republican left" and increasingly among the sort of NGO types who were once Labour and stickies. Need some sort of nationalist alternative or we are goosed.


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    #549
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    The people who run SF couldn't give a f@rt about multi culturalism and all the leftie nonsense. It is a path to power and money.

    They shift emphasis according to what they think suits the mood of the elctorate. They got it disastrously wrong with that clown Ní Riada running for the Áras and in the local and Europeans.

    Then the other clowns gifted them top spot in the generals by making them the main issue! Not even the most optimistic Shinner saw that coming hence their throwing away of 10 - 15 extra seats. Thankfully.

    A lot of the new intake are either far left rejects or village idiots so hopefully that will be the end of most of them. It is really like a slow bicycle race, however, as FG have safely cornered the traditional centre right market with a liberal tinge; while FF are in freefall so Shinners have a penalty kick on the "republican left" and increasingly among the sort of NGO types who were once Labour and stickies. Need some sort of nationalist alternative or we are goosed.

    the NGO types have traded Labour for the Soc Dems and the Greens , SF are a little too rough round the edges for them


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    #550
    Gunmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭Gunmonkey


    To get slightly back on topic....what has been Labours reasons for this apart from "its right"? As in its moraly just to do this?

    How?

    Is its just some childish "White Guilt" bs over how de evil whiteys enslaved all of Africa and stomped all over their lands or such? Its only going to destabilize our housing and welfare systems even more, at a time when we should be doing everything we can to fix them and not exacerbate them! And Labour are probably wondering why they have fallen to **** in polls while ignoring problems right in their face as the seek to go create new ones.


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    #551
    grassylawn
    Registered Users Posts: 489 ✭✭grassylawn


    People say "There should be more restrictions on immigration"
    Other people say "There should be fewer restrictions on immigration"
    And they argue.

    Most of both groups actually think that "People who want to leech aren't welcome"
    - and also that "People who contribute are welcome"
    Opinions outside of these might seem racist or stupid.
    So the conversation is really about whether immigrants are coming to contribute or to leech.

    Coming over to have a baby on Irish soil - this is not someone looking to contribute.
    Having a baby if you are living and working here and are set up to take care of it - why not let them be Irish?


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    #552
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    grassylawn wrote: »
    People say "There should be more restrictions on immigration"
    Other people say "There should be fewer restrictions on immigration"
    And they argue.

    Most of both groups actually think that "People who want to leech aren't welcome"
    - and also that "People who contribute are welcome"
    Opinions outside of these might seem racist or stupid.
    So the conversation is really about whether immigrants are coming to contribute or to leech.

    Coming over to have a baby on Irish soil - this is not someone looking to contribute.
    Having a baby if you are living and working here and are set up to take care of it - why not let them be Irish?

    Can they not become naturalized citizens?


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    #553
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    grassylawn wrote: »
    People say "There should be more restrictions on immigration"
    Other people say "There should be fewer restrictions on immigration"
    And they argue.

    Most of both groups actually think that "People who want to leech aren't welcome"
    - and also that "People who contribute are welcome"
    Opinions outside of these might seem racist or stupid.
    So the conversation is really about whether immigrants are coming to contribute or to leech.

    Coming over to have a baby on Irish soil - this is not someone looking to contribute.
    Having a baby if you are living and working here and are set up to take care of it - why not let them be Irish?

    Valid points. I have found that Polish people i know, some of whom have had children born here, don't have any issues with the citizenship thing.

    Two reasons: Firstly, as EU citizens it makes absolutely no difference to their or their children's status here.

    Secondly, they have no desire to become "Irish" or "New Irish", no more than Paddy and Mary who went to London or Birmingham wanted to be English or New English.


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    #554
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Bonniedog wrote: »

    Secondly, they have no desire to become "Irish" or "New Irish", no more than Paddy and Mary who went to London or Birmingham wanted to be English or New English.
    Good analogy.
    But it is the so-called progressives in Ireland i.e. liberal media (RTE and the Irish Times) and liberal left politicians who immediately want to proclaim them as Irish, even though these people might not want to be seen as Irish. Just because they are given Irish citizenship and Irish passports very quickly and very easily in this country, it does not mean that they automatically become "Irish" at the point when the passports are handed to them.


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    #555
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Kivaro wrote: »
    Good analogy.
    But it is the so-called progressives in Ireland i.e. liberal media (RTE and the Irish Times) and liberal left politicians who immediately want to proclaim them as Irish, even though these people might not want to be seen as Irish. Just because they are given Irish citizenship and Irish passports very quickly and very easily in this country, it does not mean that they automatically become "Irish" at the point when the passports are handed to them.
    Take Nigerians in Ireland, among the top demographics referred to as "New Irish",* a survey by yet another NGO the Immigrant council of Ireland found "However, they are strongly likely to feel that they do not have many values in common with Irish people". Strongly eh? So not very "Irish" then. Diversity is our strength... Diversity is our strength... Diversity is our strength...






    *this New Irish thing seems to almost exclusively a Black folks thing. I don't see Poles or Russians or EU migrants getting labelled in this fashion to nearly the same degree.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #556
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    The whole "New Irish" thing is a condescending scam. No self-respecting Pole or Brit or Italian thinks they are Irish just because live here.

    And of course it facilitates scamsters who would tell the imbeciles they deal with anything in order to get something for nothing.


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    #557
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,547 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-to-work-with-labour-on-citizenship-bill-for-stateless-children-1.4425875

    People voted overwhelmingly 20 years a go to close down the anchor baby scam routes because the country was being abused.

    See, this is why extremist hard line parties ultimately rise. Because these people don't listen.

    This stuff right here.

    "What do you mean the people voted?, we never had a vote, who cares what the public think, we rigged it this way, we know better...."


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    #558
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-to-work-with-labour-on-citizenship-bill-for-stateless-children-1.4425875

    People voted overwhelmingly 20 years a go to close down the anchor baby scam routes because the country was being abused.

    See, this is why extremist hard line parties ultimately rise. Because these people don't listen.

    This stuff right here.

    "What do you mean the people voted?, we never had a vote, who cares what the public think, we rigged it this way, we know better...."

    There is nothing any of us can do about it. A clear majority voted against it 20 years ago and now suddenly it's back in the agenda and is looking like a sure thing.

    As the article states it will make Ireland the only EU country to grant citizenship to children born here. We all know that parents wont be removed and split up from their now Irish children. Right to remain.

    The UK just today announced an immigration points based system.
    Ireland is working on giving any and all children born here citizenship.

    Doesn't take a genius to see where this will go.


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    #559
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Disgraceful decision. A tiny little party just over-turned a decision of 1,400,000 citizens.

    They'll amend the Labour Bill to satisfy Brussels and then it's open season.

    Was watching the debate. One Labour Senator was fkn smirking as she told how she hadn't been able to vote in 2004, but would now get to reverse it.


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    #560
    November Golf
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭November Golf


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    A clear majority voted against it 20 years ago and now suddenly it's back in the agenda and is looking like a sure thing.

    The people voted to let the Oireachtas decide.

    Citizenship is now a matter of law, not the constitution, and the Oireachtas have the authority to make and amend laws as they see fit.


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    #561
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,547 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Mike Foxtrot wrote: »
    The people voted to let the Oireachtas decide.

    Citizenship is now a matter of law, not the constitution, and the Oireachtas have the authority to make and amend laws as they see fit.

    The EU and UK will not accept the situation before that referendum nor I believe will the Irish people.

    They are stirring up a hornets nest of trouble with this.

    What type of message is this sending out, pop out a child and you and your family will be grand.

    They have no right to be here. The children are used as an emotional weapon.

    It is disgraceful and we should enforce our immigration controls robustly, no exceptions.


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    #562
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    "Multiculturalism leads to parallel societies and therefore remains a sham” - Angela Merkel 2015.


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    #563
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Disgraceful decision. A tiny little party just over-turned a decision of 1,400,000 citizens.

    They'll amend the Labour Bill to satisfy Brussels and then it's open season.

    Was watching the debate. One Labour Senator was fkn smirking as she told how she hadn't been able to vote in 2004, but would now get to reverse it.
    Labour has gone from a party that once had 37 TDs to now a party with just 3% support in Ireland. The abysmal decline was their own doing, but now they seek revenge on the Irish people. The way that they are gloating through their legislation process to circumvent the vote of 80% of the Irish population should make what remains of their support very embarrassed. They will always retain the support of the wealthy socialists e.g. RTE staff, trade union leaders, Irish academics, but the ordinary traditional worker who previously voted for them should now abandon them. You would think that Labour would have learned from the Irish Water debacle, but this is many times worse.


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    #564
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Mike Foxtrot wrote: »
    The people voted to let the Oireachtas decide.

    Citizenship is now a matter of law, not the constitution, and the Oireachtas have the authority to make and amend laws as they see fit.
    The people voted to close the loophole, the legal angle was a sideshow and the result would have been the same whether it was included or not. Other referendums passed that had similar legal angles, but those voting for them didn't envisage a complete about face wheeled out by a busted flush party and a ivory tower politically deluded muppet like Bacik looking to score brownie points and garner attention. There's some wriggle room in the abortion laws, but you can bet the farm they wouldn't touch them without going to a vote and rightfully.


    There's some hope for sense though as minister McEntee quite sensibly noted:

    “the proposed Bill is very well intended and I support the objective of the Bill”. But she warned that they had to be “conscious of unintended consequences, of changing immigration laws at a time of huge flux” in the context of the Covid-19 pandemic and Brexit.

    Ms McEntee said there were a lot of implications for the Bill if enacted as it currently stands, “not least for our standing in the EU with the Common Travel Area, Northern Ireland, our relationship with the UK but also with the department and other agencies”.

    If enacted as it currently stands the Bill would make Ireland unique in the EU in granting citizenship to any child born on the island of Ireland regardless of the legality of their parents’ residence, the Minister said.

    Never mind this red herring nonsense about the Oireachtas legal stuff. The fact is a huge majority voted to close this loophole. A loophole that was and will be exploited again, especially with the biggest migrant influx in modern European that kicked off since it was closed. A loophole that no other EU nation has. A loophole that will not endear us to other EU nations that are already dealing with the negatives of this recent migrant problem. Though let's face it Ireland having about the highest social welfare payments in the EU, we'll likely be the destination, not the transit hub.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #565
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Mike Foxtrot wrote: »
    The people voted to let the Oireachtas decide.

    Citizenship is now a matter of law, not the constitution, and the Oireachtas have the authority to make and amend laws as they see fit.

    The people voted by 80% to get rid of birthright ciutizenship.

    That was what the amendment meant. It was done for valid reasons, the same ones why no other state in Europe allows it as it opens the door to mass illegal immigration that can be ratified post facto. As it is already in fact because the state facilitates it by its inactions against welfare migrants and criminals, most of whom end up staying here anyway. As McEntee boasted about today. A Minister for Justice boasting about her department ignoring the law!


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    #566
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,547 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://twitter.com/MigrantRightsIr/status/1334183626599227393

    They want to "right the wrong" of the vote of the Irish people.


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    #567
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/MigrantRightsIr/status/1334183626599227393

    They want to "right the wrong" of the vote of the Irish people.

    could you imagine if this was about almost any other referendum, almost any other one , the more recent the more shocking it would be.


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    #568
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    If this vote is overturned it makes an absolute mockery of the idea of democracy in Ireland. If they will go against a democratic referendum with an 80% majority. What is the point in voting on anything. The arrogance of these people.


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    #569
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3199024.stm

    "In 1999, only 2% of babies were born to non-nationals. This (2003 )year the figure will be almost 20%.

    "Last year more than 4,000 non-EU immigrants - 3,000 of them asylum seekers - were granted residency because they were parents of babies born in Ireland"


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    #570
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    could you imagine if this was about almost any other referendum, almost any other one , the more recent the more shocking it would be.

    Imagine if they tried it with the GFA.


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    #571
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    could you imagine if this was about almost any other referendum, almost any other one , the more recent the more shocking it would be.

    Made that point to someone regarding the gay marriage referendum.

    the text put to electorate was:

    Marriage may be contracted in accordance with law by two persons without distinction as to their sex

    Bacik made a big thing of similar reference in 2004. So presumably, if there was to be an Oireachtas majority in favour of changing that, that would be okay?


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