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Madeleine McCann

13567…98

Comments

  • #102
    batman75
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭batman75


    Two points strike me about this case

    1. How on earth does a parent/s leave their children without adult supervision in a hotel room while going out for a meal.
    2. I think the McCann's being doctors have lent them a more favourable coverage than if they had been two unemployed people. Two unemployed people would have been destroyed in the media as the dregs of society for daring to leave their children unsupervised. Doctors are afforded, understandably, respect by society but the basic lack of care is the bottom line.

    Irrespective of the negligence of the parents I hope they get a resolution to this tragic case. By their own actions they have sentenced themselves to a lifetime of guilt.


  • #103
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Truthvader wrote: »
    Ho ho ho what a laugh!

    Bewildered by all the sheer malice here. Unless I was 100% positive that they had hurt their own child I would not even suggest the possibility but to be openly accusing these parents who lost their child in the most cruel circumstances on the basis of Portuguese dogs who are never wrong and fanciful malicious speculation takes a cold cold heart.

    So proud of you all

    These are the types of people who pulled the wings off butterflies as children and who don’t really see anything wrong with dogfighting. They love those websites which have lots of film of people suffering endless injuries in accidents,
    The McCanns are fair game to them. Anything goes.


  • #104
    The Nal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,038 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    So seems like it may be what a lot of people thought had happened initially. Kidnapped by a sicko who then killed her when it became global news within hours.


  • #105
    Don keebals
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭Don keebals


    Dempo1 wrote: »
    This is beyond bizzare, are we to believe this suspect has just appeared out of nowhere. It either gross incompetence on behalf of those investigating or just clutching at straws. I doubt any investigation ever has had so much resources put into it. It just seems extraordinary that after all this time a new suspect has been found.
    New evidence comes to light often in cold cases , your partner or friend 10 years ago may not be you partner or friend today.


  • #106
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,233 ✭✭✭✭briany


    batman75 wrote: »
    Two points strike me about this case

    1. How on earth does a parent/s leave their children without adult supervision in a hotel room while going out for a meal.
    2. I think the McCann's being doctors have lent them a more favourable coverage than if they had been two unemployed people. Two unemployed people would have been destroyed in the media as the dregs of society for daring to leave their children unsupervised. Doctors are afforded, understandably, respect by society but the basic lack of care is the bottom line.

    Irrespective of the negligence of the parents I hope they get a resolution to this tragic case. By their own actions they have sentenced themselves to a lifetime of guilt.

    They left the children alone in the apartment because the restaurant was a mere 55 metres distant from the apartment and they intended to go back and check on them at regular intervals.

    It was negligence, but the sort of everyday negligence I suspect most parents practice, and it's grand except for those very rare cases. Parents used to let their kids roam outside all day until some publicised kidnappings, and for those unfortunate parents, they could be perceived as negligent, but really it was an attitude and behaviour that was almost always totally fine.


  • #107
    armaghlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭armaghlad


    So a known German paedophile was living in close proximity to the hotel. How did they not find this lead at the time?


  • #108
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,773 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    armaghlad wrote: »
    So a known German paedophile was living in close proximity to the hotel. How did they not find this lead at the time?

    The area didn't seem short of paedophiles


  • #109
    armaghlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭armaghlad


    jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »
    The area didn't seem short of paedophiles
    Seemingly that is true. Surely the first port of call would have been to round them all up.


  • #110
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,155 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    briany wrote: »
    They left the children alone in the apartment because the restaurant was a mere 55 metres distant from the apartment and they intended to go back and check on them at regular intervals.

    It was negligence, but the sort of everyday negligence I suspect most parents practice, and it's grand except for those very rare cases. Parents used to let their kids roam outside all day until some publicised kidnappings, and for those unfortunate parents, they could be perceived as negligent, but really it was an attitude and behaviour that was almost always totally fine.

    Not one single person among my friends or family would ever have left children in that situation .They were in a vulnerable and risky situation and unfortunetely looks like someone pounced on the opportunity . It would have been easy to spot a pattern and see a 30-45 minute gap and use it to take a child


  • #111
    Babooshka
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Babooshka


    armaghlad wrote: »
    So a known German paedophile was living in close proximity to the hotel. How did they not find this lead at the time?

    Maybe they did...police don't always release the information or leads they're following into the public forum for fear of alerting a suspect, we don't get told everything (much as some of the armchair detectives listening to so called "body language" experts and complete hacks, and condemn people they know nothing about, like to think they know it all)


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  • #112
    armaghlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭armaghlad


    Babooshka wrote: »
    Maybe they did...police don't always release the information or leads they're following into the public forum for fear of alerting a suspect, we don't get told everything (much as some of the armchair detectives listening to so called "body language" experts and complete hacks, and condemn people they know nothing about, like to think they know it all)
    I mean they say this is the most clear cut lead on a suspect, three police forces investigating him. I’m not questioning their methods just the fact it took this long. Interestingly the Germans are treating it as a murder case.


  • #113
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    armaghlad wrote: »
    Seemingly that is true. Surely the first port of call would have been to round them all up.

    Here’s the latest on that.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8387125/amp/New-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-discussed-online-chatroom-years-later.html


  • #114
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    Don keebals wrote: »
    New evidence comes to light often in cold cases , your partner or friend 10 years ago may not be you partner or friend today.

    In this case, it appears he made the confession to a friend and showed him a video of himself raping another woman. The rape he's currently in prison for is that of an elderly woman staying at the same Portuguese resort as the McCanns. He has a long history of raping women and children apparantly.

    German police have found 'significant' DNA in the vehicle he used at the time and phone records place him in the area at the time of the abduction.

    I know it's the Daily Mail, but lots of info in this report:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8387125/New-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-discussed-online-chatroom-years-later.html


  • #115
    batman75
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭batman75


    briany wrote: »
    They left the children alone in the apartment because the restaurant was a mere 55 metres distant from the apartment and they intended to go back and check on them at regular intervals.

    It was negligence, but the sort of everyday negligence I suspect most parents practice, and it's grand except for those very rare cases. Parents used to let their kids roam outside all day until some publicised kidnappings, and for those unfortunate parents, they could be perceived as negligent, but really it was an attitude and behaviour that was almost always totally fine.

    I appreciate you have a different opinion to me but the reality is their child is missing 13 years, presumed dead, so matter what anybody thinks these are the facts sadly. I'm not saying the McCann's are bad people but definitely their parenting is questionable. Because clearly 55 metres was too far because their child was abducted without them having an inkling.


  • #116
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Not one single person among my friends or family would ever have left children in that situation .They were in a vulnerable and risky situation and unfortunetely looks like someone pounced on the opportunity . It would have been easy to spot a pattern and see a 30-45 minute gap and use it to take a child

    Whatever you do make sure you continue to ignore the person who actually stole the child and place the entire blame on her parents.
    Else how will you and your friends continue to feel superior and smug about your perfect parenting skills?


  • #117
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    batman75 wrote: »
    I appreciate you have a different opinion to me but the reality is their child is missing 13 years, presumed dead, so matter what anybody thinks these are the facts sadly. I'm not saying the McCann's are bad people but definitely their parenting is questionable. Because clearly 55 metres was too far because their child was abducted without them having an inkling.
    I’d love to be you and know for sure that my own parenting has never been questionable. It must be great to be able to sit and point my fingers at others never having made any mistakes myself.


  • #118
    batman75
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭batman75


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Whatever you do make sure you continue to ignore the person who actually stole the child and place the entire blame on her parents.
    Else how will you and your friends continue to feel superior and smug about your perfect parenting skills?

    Clearly the parents didn't kidnap their own child but they had a duty of care to ensure that no one else could do so.


  • #119
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    batman75 wrote: »
    Clearly the parents didn't kidnap their own child but they had a duty of care to ensure that no one else could do so.

    I’m glad that you’re children are never ever at risk of anything happening to them due to your remarkable parenting skills. I’ll bet you were shocked at the little boy drowning in mayo the other night. I’d love to have heard your opinion on that...


  • #120
    batman75
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭batman75


    splinter65 wrote: »
    I’d love to be you and know for sure that my own parenting has never been questionable. It must be great to be able to sit and point my fingers at others never having made any mistakes myself.

    I remember being in London with my Aunt as a child and we were walking streets and on the tube. She held my hand in an iron grip. I get no pleasure from the fact that the child was kidnapped or that it happened to the McCann's. But in the pantheons it's pretty catastrophic don't you think?


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  • #121
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    batman75 wrote: »
    I remember being in London with my Aunt as a child and we were walking streets and on the tube. She held my hand in an iron grip. I get no pleasure from the fact that the child was kidnapped or that it happened to the McCann's. But in the pantheons it's pretty catastrophic don't you think?

    You get no pleasure, just a nice warm fuzzy smug glow.


  • #122
    batman75
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭batman75


    splinter65 wrote: »
    I’m glad that you’re children are never ever at risk of anything happening to them due to your remarkable parenting skills. I’ll bet you were shocked at the little boy drowning in mayo the other night. I’d love to have heard your opinion on that...

    That was an accident and for you to bring that into this discussion is odious.


  • #123
    batman75
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭batman75


    splinter65 wrote: »
    You get no pleasure, just a nice warm fuzzy smug glow.

    I am not engaging with you on this anymore. Your posts are nasty


  • #124
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,233 ✭✭✭✭briany


    batman75 wrote: »
    I appreciate you have a different opinion to me but the reality is their child is missing 13 years, presumed dead, so matter what anybody thinks these are the facts sadly. I'm not saying the McCann's are bad people but definitely their parenting is questionable. Because clearly 55 metres was too far because their child was abducted without them having an inkling.

    Questionable parenting... In retrospect. At the time, I would imagine the McCanns were basing their evening plan around the idea that one of the kids might wake up and wonder where the parents were, not the idea that a depraved prowler was on the loose and looking for his opening.


  • #125
    batman75
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭batman75


    briany wrote: »
    Questionable parenting... In retrospect. At the time, I would imagine the McCanns were basing their evening plan around the idea that one of the kids might wake up and wonder where the parents were, not the idea that a depraved prowler was on the loose and looking for his opening.

    The McCann's are not bad people. People are human they make mistakes. Unfortunately this mistake had catastrophic consequences they must live with everyday of their lives sadly.


  • #126
    Dodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,310 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    splinter65 wrote: »
    I’m glad that you’re children are never ever at risk of anything happening to them due to your remarkable parenting skills. I’ll bet you were shocked at the little boy drowning in mayo the other night. I’d love to have heard your opinion on that...

    Pretty ****ing low response.

    It is possible to feel for the McCanns and to acknowledge they made an error in leaving the children unattended IMO

    To bring every child death into the discussion isn’t on


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  • #127
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    dark crystal wrote: »
    In this case, it appears he made the confession to a friend and showed him a video of himself raping another woman. The rape he's currently in prison for is that of an elderly woman staying at the same Portuguese resort as the McCanns. He has a long history of raping women and children apparantly.

    German police have found 'significant' DNA in the vehicle he used at the time and phone records place him in the area at the time of the abduction.

    I know it's the Daily Mail, but lots of info in this report:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8387125/New-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-discussed-online-chatroom-years-later.html

    Unless they have found Madeline's DNA or personal belongings in the car or van he owned at the time it’s highly unlikely he’ll ever be charged - he may be a strong suspect but there have been a few “strong suspects” over the years that have never come to anything- without strong evidence this will never get to trial - as despicable as this guy obviously is, without strong evidence or a full confession it will be just heartbreaking for the family -it’s not unheard of for notorious criminals to admit to things they haven’t done just to increase their notoriety -


  • #128
    ToddDameron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭ToddDameron


    What are all the busy bodies who spent years of their lives abusing/accusing the parents going to do if this man is proven to be responsible?


  • #129
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,773 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    What the McCann family has had to ensure has been horrific.

    However, leaving your kids unsupervised, while on holidays in an unfamiliar place, is poor parenting. There was a childminding service available.

    Leaving kids that age alone is dangerous. Madeleine was big enough to wander about and potentially injure herself or her siblings etc.


  • #130
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Could someone please point out where on this or any discussion relating to Madeleine people have ever said that Kate and Gerry weren’t negligent? Because I honestly don’t think anyone has ever said that at all.

    Yes they were negligent. They made a huge mistake but they are only human and they will have to live with the consequences for the rest of their lives.

    But their admittedly huge mistake does not make them killers either accidentally or deliberately.

    People need to stop letting the real culprit hide behind them - the man that took Madeline and killed her is responsible and him alone. Stop trying to scapegoating goat.


  • #131
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Unless they have found Madeline's DNA or personal belongings in the car or van he owned at the time it’s highly unlikely he’ll ever be charged - he may be a strong suspect but there have been a few “strong suspects” over the years that have never come to anything- without strong evidence this will never get to trial - as despicable as this guy obviously is, without strong evidence or a full confession it will be just heartbreaking for the family -it’s not unheard of for notorious criminals to admit to things they haven’t done just to increase their notoriety -

    Yes, you definitely have a point there - scumbags running their mouths off to their friends is not a proper confession in itself and could mean nothing - I just get the feeling from these reports that there's something even more significant they have to back up this accusation.

    I mean, his name, face, phone number and vehicles are all over the news. I dunno, this just feels more substantial than just another suspect.

    Could be another dead end by all means, but I really hope this could finally be the breakthrough that gives her family some closure at last.


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  • #132
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,233 ✭✭✭✭briany


    batman75 wrote: »
    The McCann's are not bad people. People are human they make mistakes. Unfortunately this mistake had catastrophic consequences they must live with everyday of their lives sadly.

    And that's been happening forever. You take a course of action that you think is fine but it meets with a certain variable outside of your knowledge at the time. The result is disaster, and could happen to anyone.


  • #133
    batman75
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭batman75


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    People need to stop letting the real culprit hide behind them - the man that took Madeline and killed her is responsible and him alone. Stop trying to scapegoating goat.

    Your right in the sense that the McCann's didn't actually harm Madeleine. I guess the puzzlement is that they left their children unsupervised irrespective of their proximity. The bottom line is they had a duty of care to their children at all times.


  • #134
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    ToddDameron wrote: »
    What are all the busy bodies who spent years of their lives abusing/accusing the parents going to do if this man is proven to be responsible?

    Oh they're still around...just wailing on them for negligence instead of murder now.


  • #135
    Rockbeast2
    Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Rockbeast2


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    People need to stop letting the real culprit hide behind them - the man that took Madeline and killed her is responsible and him alone

    ???

    I guess that clears everything up. Cheers.


  • #136
    batman75
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭batman75


    briany wrote: »
    And that's been happening forever. You take a course of action that you think is fine but it meets with a certain variable outside of your knowledge at the time. The result is disaster, and could happen to anyone.

    Completely agree. Most mistakes don't have catastrophic consequences thankfully.


  • #137
    expectationlost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,992 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Here’s the latest on that.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8387125/amp/New-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-discussed-online-chatroom-years-later.html
    suspect pictured :/


  • #138
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »
    What the McCann family has had to ensure has been horrific.

    However, leaving your kids unsupervised, while on holidays in an unfamiliar place, is poor parenting. There was a childminding service available.

    Leaving kids that age alone is dangerous. Madeleine was big enough to wander about and potentially injure herself or her siblings etc.

    I would argue that up to that year. 1000s of parents did similar, whether in Ireland Portugal or Spain etc - do you not think her parents 13 years on are fully aware and regretful of their negligence? But there’s 10s of 1000s of parents who are saying “but for the grace of God” - that could have been us.

    Give them a break will you?


  • #139
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    batman75 wrote: »
    Your right in the sense that the McCann's didn't actually harm Madeleine. I guess the puzzlement is that they left their children unsupervised irrespective of their proximity. The bottom line is they had a duty of care to their children at all times.

    Yes they do but again it was a mistake. A huge mistake yes but a mistake all the same. There was no malice involved, no desire to actually abandon their children or to allow Madeleine to be taken.

    They are not bad people and they don’t deserve the hatred and vitriol that has been leveled at them.


  • #140
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,773 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Give them a break will you?

    Didn't realise they were on boards.


  • #141
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,974 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    armaghlad wrote: »
    So a known German paedophile was living in close proximity to the hotel. How did they not find this lead at the time?

    He was transient in the area, it seems he may have been staying in a camper van. It also seems he had a car there which he registered in Germany at the same time as he was in the area. He may not have had a record at the time as I think he is only in.his mid 40's and he may have had an accomplice.

    I think it a case of good detective work piecing together that he had a type of camper and car seen in the area at the time, linking phone records and finding out he was in the area at the time

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • #142
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Rockbeast2 wrote: »
    ???

    I guess that clears everything up. Cheers.

    It’s really not that hard to understand.

    People are, inadvertently I am sure, shielding the real culprit and absolving him of all blame by laying all responsibility at Kate and Gerry’s feet.

    And that won’t help anyone , Madeleine least of al. It needs to stop.


  • #143
    Rockbeast2
    Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Rockbeast2


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    It’s really not that hard to understand.

    People are, inadvertently I am sure, shielding the real culprit and absolving him of all blame by laying all responsibility at Kate and Gerry’s feet.

    And that won’t help anyone , Madeleine least of al. It needs to stop.

    "man", "took", "killed".

    Have you considered telling Scotland Yard that you have solved the case? All the above is speculation, nothing more.


  • #144
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Rockbeast2 wrote: »
    "man", "took", "killed".

    Have you considered telling Scotland Yard that you have solved the case? All the above is speculation, nothing more.

    A little more than speculation given what’s happening today.

    Sky News have just reported that the police believe poor Madeleine is dead.


  • #145
    Rockbeast2
    Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Rockbeast2


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    A little more than speculation given what’s happening today.

    Sky News have just reported that the police believe poor Madeleine is dead.

    Well, forgive me then for believing that a working theory, the latest of dozens of working theories to date, based on the alleged drunken "confession" of a criminal to a third party, is only speculation.


  • #146
    expectationlost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,992 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    so its taken 3 years to get this point from the tip off?


  • #147
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    If this German convicted paedophile does, at the end of the day, prove to be the culprit, I would wonder was what his (or whoever IS the culprit) modus operandi. Maybe hanging around the tapas bar monitoring movements of the parents, posing as a regular customer. Or maybe he had a child himself, although I’m getting the impression he hung around alone in a camper van.

    As for disposing of remains, I’m quite sure the police etc have looked at the cliffs at Sagres where parking is available close to the cliffs edge. Below is the very wild steep cliff-edged Atlantic where a body would never be seen again except by remote chance.


  • #148
    bnt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,032 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    expectationlost wrote: »
    so its taken 3 years to get this point from the tip off?
    The guy is in jail, so (a) he doesn't have Maddie and (b) he's not going anywhere. Better that the police take their time and get all of their ducks in a row.

    Death has this much to be said for it:
    You don’t have to get out of bed for it.
    Wherever you happen to be
    They bring it to you—free.

    — Kingsley Amis



  • #149
    FVP3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    I thought it was that guy Robert Murat who did this, or am I misinformed. Same guy?


  • #150
    tigger123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭tigger123


    FVP3 wrote: »
    I thought it was that guy Robert Murat who did this, or am I misinformed. Same guy?

    This guy has been semi identified as Christian H.


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  • #151
    FVP3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    tigger123 wrote: »
    This guy has been semi identified as Christian H.

    not the same guy?, I stopped following this when the English press convinced me that it was Murat. That was over I thought. I mean the friends of the McCanns saw him and pointed him out. How could they be wrong?


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